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@ferrals See my post above about changing the intensity by 2%, for me that equated to about 5W at FTP which doesn't sound much but it made the last interval pretty stressful.
If the FTP you are working to is about right then even a small change can have quite significant effects especially for things like over-unders where the intention is to only spend a part of the time above FTP to stress your muscles with the unders letting you recover. If your intensity is too low, even by a couple of Watts, then you never get the stress. Conversely if the intensity is too high then you don't get the recovery so you are beasting yourself for the entire interval. Might not be much of a concern for VO2Max intervals - they are going to hurt whatever! 🙄
Basically don't assume that your FTP is right for the duration of a plan, you might have had a good or bad day when you did the test, you might have got fitter, etc. You can and should modify it according to your current ability/fitness/freshness, etc.
mrblobby - MemberDo you need to? Have you run out of gears?
Probably not quite run out of gears, but almost, for short sharp bursts I'm in the hardest gear and 110rpm, can't really get over 600w because I'm spinning out. Guess thats almost 200%FTP though.
Looks like a reasonable plan though. That for XC racing? Thing I'd want to add is to do some race pace intervals out on proper XC trails
Yeah for xc racing. good point re race pace intervals, will try and do that on the Saturday sessions. Will need to think of some good singletrack i can use thats not too technical. As I turbo train on the cx bike I'm going to be doing as much as possible outside on mtb with percieved exertion/HR. so for example tomorrow instead of actually doing Mary Austin I'll probably drive to a wood with a nice 5km fireorad loop in rolling hills and mimic the work out in that.
@whitestone, yeah I guess having tested 6 weeks ago a few watts cahnge is viable. Also, a big difference is I've bought a fan so the heat stress is much much lower.
can't really get over 600w because I'm spinning out
? I'm using 25/11 on a road bike am getting 750w in 54/17.
I should have tested this week but have avoided it, becuase I've been working from 5am on several occasions and have been forced to work my turbo sessions at 8pm, so am tired.
Basically don't assume that your FTP is right for the duration of a plan, you might have had a good or bad day when you did the test, you might have got fitter, etc. You can and should modify it according to your current ability/fitness/freshness, etc.
This. I'm smashing my intervals at the start of XCO - 4x5 min VO2 max last night, all done in the TT position, and on the last one I just had a lot left so smashed it and ramped from 108% to 175% for the big finish on the final interval, after an hours workout.
The family is out Saturday 9-2pm, and its raining here so its a big opportunity for me to laze about, eat well and smash a 20 min tests at midday.
I'll probably drive to a wood with a nice 5km fireorad loop in rolling hills and mimic the work out in that.
I was planning to do something similar but I haven't got an aqualung. Whatever the weather I have to train outside this weekend as I am now so fatigued that I can no longer reliably hold zone on the turbo. ATL 100 doesn't tell the whole story.
@Kryton - biggest gear is 46fr 12rear, curently using the middle resistance setting of turbo.
@adsh - I'm just not sure if training using cx bike on the turbo is quite as beneficial for mtb as real world training as using a cx bike the position is slightly different (incl q factor in my case), so I'm tying to ride outside as much as possible. The weather does look rank though!
I use an MTB for everything now to try to replicate my position as much as possible for that very reason.
I have a goretex jacket I've not used in 3 years and Castelli nanoflex bibshorts. I have no excuse other than my immune system has fought off the lurgy and 4hrs of wet will probably make me succumb. Lie in, shorter turbo session and make up for it next week in S.Wales
my immune system has fought off the lurgy and 4hrs of wet will probably make me succumb.
Similar thinking here. Turbo today is looking inevitable.
Bloody hate this weather 🙁
Weather's fine here, but my back brace isn't coming off for another 3 weeks. I have the go ahead to try the turbo though! Have bought a 26" turbo tyre and got a mountain bike down from the loft. Just waiting for a skinny tube to arrive then I'll be all set up. Don't really have a plan yet, I just want to see if it hurts to sit on a bike and pedal!
^ You may be near me (Wallingford) - I have a QR 26" wheel with a trainer tyre if you want?
Turbo [s]today[/s] is looking inevitable.Bloody hate this weather.
Yup. I was planning an 80k road ride originally. With a plan of 100 - 150k outside base miles every weekend from December to March completely blown, I'm concerned about starting my season without miles in my legs.
Could be worse though, this time last year I was in the middle of my second chest infection in 12 weeks...
I applaud your ability to get on with things Gray, not sure I'd be so chipper in your situation, well done that man!
I'm concerned about starting my season without miles in my legs
I haz miles but no intervals.
You have a very busy season? Torq were telling me that current thinking in the pro peleton is reverse periodisation - winter intervals and rely on the number of events in race season for miles in the legs.
Torq were telling me that current thinking in the pro peleton is reverse periodisation - winter intervals and rely on the number of events in race season for miles in the legs
Interesting. I guess quite a different skill/fitness-set from pro peleton to xc mtb though?
I've tried to be disciplined but to be honest its all been a bit all over the shop with racing cx very w/e till Nov., then being busy, then hurting myself and not iding much till mid dec. With the weather being so rank I'm struggling to get a handle on how well I'm riding despit having lots of turbo hours. Every time I go out its been with loads of layers, overshoes etc. Plus I've had a lot of training in my legs since christmas. Looking forward to next sunday, rest week next week, got a sports massage booked for Thurs eve, then next sunday will head up to Afan or Brechfa (assuming weater reasonable) and see how I fit with PB's etc on strava. not far off top ten on a few of the climbs so if I could crack into that would be a good marker.
Oh really? In which case I'm in pretty advanced training then 😀
Yes busy - one monthly XCO Reg A from March - Sept, Once weekly XCO Reg C from May -July, Mountain Mayhem and the Bonty 24/12. Thats 19 races, 17 short and 2 24's.
And every other weekend I'll be doing one of these:
how well I'm riding despit having lots of turbo hours.
Same. I'm reluctant to lose a good set of intervals for a slog in the mud/rain with little training benefit. And worse, I've change to 1x11 ond Oval and haven't ridden that yet. I'm thinking of entering the G8 Winter series race at Hadleigh on 21.2 just for a practise session.
And even worse, I realised I've been 18 months on my oem reaer shock without a service so need to get it removed this weekend and serviced so its back by the 21st.... aaaargh
^ You may be near me (Wallingford) - I have a QR 26" wheel with a trainer tyre if you want?
Yep - not far (Headington). Thanks, that's very kind. Wiggle have just been (well, their stooge anyway) so I'm all set. It's quite nice to see my Hummer again actually, though I would have preferred happier circumstances. Assuming I can get the tyre on (quite a chunky rim) then I'll try and have a spin this evening.
I applaud your ability to get on with things Gray, not sure I'd be so chipper in your situation, well done that man!
Ta! Can't really complain though - it was painful at first (well, it was actually insane for a bit), but since then my feelings towards the whole thing have been essentially "This could have been SO much worse - I'm going to be OK, it's just going to take a little while." Things like missing the Etape, a skiing holiday, broken bike, etc etc don't seem like such a big deal when I think for a second about how it could have turned out.
^^Fantastic mindset.
Did Kaweah last night (5x10min at 98% FTP with 5 minute breaks). Looks very innocuous but I found it surprisingly tough on the legs as 3rd session in 3 days. Doing a bit of cramming of the program currently as I've got a long weekend skiing coming up.
Turbo today is looking inevitable.
Well with a big dose of MTFU I actually went outside and rode the bike. Really enjoyed it despite the wind and rain. (Proof [url= https://www.strava.com/activities/486469695 ]here[/url]!)
Torq were telling me that current thinking in the pro peleton is reverse periodisation - winter intervals and rely on the number of events in race season for miles in the legs
I read a TrainingPeaks or Friel article explaining that and why it works for them. What they actually do is work on the intense stuff during the off season, then as they get closer to racing it might look like they are doing a lot more base, but what they're actually doing is making their training more like racing, which in most part is pootling along for hundreds of miles in a peloton for weeks at a time.
Edit... [url= http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2013/10/reverse-periodization.html ]this article[/url].
^^Fantastic mindset.
Second that. Keep it up! 🙂
making their training more like racing,
Interesting. We had session with Huw Williams this week (yes that one). His Training philosophy - and he had a graphic to show the zones 95% or racers race in - is exactly the same.
His go to phrase is "You're either training to race, or just riding you bike".
He cited examples of Hoy falling off rollers & turbos at the of sessions he was so wasted. I put this to the test in my last two TR session, by following the plans but riding the last interval / part of the interval to exhaustion.
I'll let you know if I start winning things 😉
Has anyone had any issues with TR this evening? Not long finished an hours session (Muir) however TR has only saved the first 40 mins of the session. little frustrating!
I guess this has already been covered, but has anyone got any tips for preventing ANT+ dropouts between trainer and iOS device? I've got the Wahoo Ant adaptor for my iPhone connected with a legit Apple 30-pin to Lightning adapter (the long cable version), but today's Bondcliff session dropped out loads. When it happens I need to unplug the adaptor and plug it back in. On one occasion 20 minutes into the workout it even crashed TrainerRoad and I needed to start again (no way of skipping ahead in the workout either which is rubbish).
Balls to it, the weather blues have defeated me, I'm turboing not outside riding. Can't face doing intervals in the pissing rain and gales.
Mrblobby, just requested follow on Strava.
+2.5% FTP today vs 20 min test. A good gain in 5 weeks.
Good job kryton57 hoping for similar next week
Mary Austin, wasn't as brutal as I was expecting, makes me wonder if my FTP is still too low, though heart rate was around 166 though which from memory is about the threshold (according to strava anyway).
Anybody going for the Tour of Sufferlandria this year - just back from work and sat here in two minds.
ferrals - Member
Mary Austin, wasn't as brutal as I was expectingPOSTED 2 HOURS AGO #
I rescind my previous comment. Can barely get off the sofa! Didn't seem awful at the time but it's taken it out of me!
Just realised that ToS is no longer on Trainerroad. I can see why they have done it but from my perspective its a mistake. Don't think I'll bother if I'm not going to get my special little badge at the end.
Just finished Golgotha, quite an aptly named session to avoid the rain and mirk.
Well no amount of MTFU was going to get me out there today. Bad enough walking the dog.
Been tempted by ToS in the past but it's a pretty serious undertaking, a major chunk of TSS. Doesn't really fit in with the plan for me. Curious not to have trainerroad supporting it.
Just finished Golgotha
Looks like a good session that. Worth bookmarking. Might be needing it tomorrow if the weather is still grim.
I'm on the Sustained Build Plan which has some long sessions like that though the shorter (1hr) ones can be tough as the efforts are fairly long and based around your FTP 😳 It's meant to be Koip tomorrow but 150mins of zone 2 type riding on the turbo is a bit much so I might risk getting out for a steady road ride and also do a shorter Threshold or VO2Max session like Morgan 45 - https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/115311-morgan-45
Very nasty weather here today too. Don't blame anyone for not getting out! Got the turbo set up this evening and had a quick go. First time I've turned pedals for a month! Turns out the back brace is a bit of a pain. Top of my legs bump it, and it also constrains my chest on max inhalation too. Will have a proper go tomorrow and see if I can make it a bit better. Also got a bit dizzy. Bah. Position wasn't too uncomfortable though, and the brace will be off in 3 weeks so bodes quite well for the near future!
Good work there gray. Impressive stuff!
Second week of 800TSS Zone 2 completed. Barely able to get up a flight of stairs.
Pretty heavy load there adsh! My legs felt a bit like that at the end of Jan so last week was an easy one. Legs felt great on 50 miles of z2/z3 yesterday 🙂
Yes and I'm feeling it to the extent I'm not sure week 3 is possible 😥 Moving from turbo to 3x long outside rides may help.
Crap.
Either I overchieved on my 20min test Saturday, or the slight cold symptoms I have affected me, or only 4h sleep did, or maybe all three, but I struggled on the 4th and 5th interval of Red Lake ( 5 x 5 @ 108%). Need some time to gather myself and go again but I was wobbling everywhere on the very last minute.
Ouch!
Hmmm...
I put this to the test in my last two TR session, by following the plans but riding the last interval / part of the interval to exhaustion.
Lol - I made it a hard week last week.
But what does one do, cruise through the sessions having a "good" workout, or use up the last of the reserves on the last few intervals to really batter myself?
BC says the latter, TR says its more important to complete the intervals.
2 rest now due to work travel, lets see what Thursday brings, and see if consistent failings mean I need to lower my FTP a bit.
But what does one do, cruise through the sessions having a "good" workout, or use up the last of the reserves on the last few intervals to really batter myself?
Think it depends on what you are trying to achieve. There are times when you want to empty the tank, other times you want to apply a specific load. I'd say, as part of a bigger plan, in Feb, it's probably the latter.
If you're doing a bunch of intervals that are meant to be hard and you finish it at the prescribed power and still feel pretty fresh then maybe make a note of that and bump it up a percent or two next time. There's probably more benefit in making all the intervals a bit harder than just making the last one super hard (unless that is what you are specifically working on I guess.)
Fair point.
I start racing/TTing March 6th, so part of what I'm doing is going through some mental torture deliberately.
As I say, I'll try Thursday's at the FTP TR told me, to see if its just tiredness. The fact my penultimate interval was 2min on, 1min off, and 2min to finish then my last interval was 1 minute on, 2 off then 2 on to finish means the strength is there if not the depth...
According to the Coggan book your intervals should be until there is significant degradation in power. If you can't adjust the number of intervals on TR then you need to work backwards and pace your power output such that the last set is only just achievable or borderline isn't.
Any thoughts on a plan (TR or self devised) to get back to fitness quickly.
background: i had a good year last year and then structured training tailed off oct/nov. I've been commuting and social riding constantly (but power output noticeably down) and now i've just had two weeks (and counting) off the bike due to facial surgery. I think i'm up to turbo again - just concerned about sweating too much into my wound.
I'm thinking a combo of pyramidal, kaiser and moving onto katahdin should see me right.
According to the Coggan book your intervals should be until there is significant degradation in power. If you can't adjust the number of intervals on TR then you need to work backwards and pace your power output such that the last set is only just achievable or borderline isn't.
Probably if you are wanting to go to that depth. E.g. 2x20 @ FTP is a popular one, but you shouldn't be completing the second 20 min thinking it's just about achievable, as that should be at your hour power.
More often you probably want to make it hard but reasonably achievable, especially if you're training most days. I'd not want to do the above day in day out!
One of the reasons Torq reckon you should only do two intervals sessions per week!
Yes I think I was over that measure this time, but then vo2max is not my strength either. I probably should have knocked the last 2 down 3% to 105 and completed them in hindsite. Note the first 3 were fine. Difficult, not overly so though.
I only rode 90k last week - all on the Turbo :/