[Closed] Toe curling 650b marketing guff.

I find it a bit strange that Orange moved the Five to 27.5 as I might have thought that Orange would have a loyal following and did not need to be up with the latest fashion.

No but if people want to buy a new set of wheels, they're not going to be able to buy a top end set of 26" (not brand new anyway) so the manufacturer has to real option but to go with what the market dictates. That way when the customer comes to upgrade their forks, wheels etc, they fit the frame.

I am surprised Ben didn't shove that proprietary shaped seatpost up his bottom

I can't stand proprietary kit. Did Mountain Mayhem a few years ago, 3 of us in the team were on Specialized, one guy on a Cannondale. Seeing as Mr Cannondale was "laid back" about his bike maintenance, his bike naturally failed every bloody lap. Nothing else fitted - we had spare parts and spare wheels which all fitted our Specializeds. He had a bloody Lefty, 3-bolt rotors, that god-awful CODA kit. None of our spares worked on his bike.

for a given design, 650b is guaranteed to use more material, be heavier and flexier than 26... dudes be tripping, they're selling us guff and smiling about it.

29 has its place and it makes far more sense to continue with 26 and 29 in parallel than squeeze in another size just for the sake of sales driven obseletion of existing standards.

We the people can change this madness and prevent the environmental fallout of all this excess material; don't buy em... once sales figures show demand is distinctly dropping off and folk aren't suckers for greedy bullshitters, their smug manipulations will fall flat.

We the people can change this madness and prevent the environmental fallout of all this excess material; don't buy em... once sales figures show demand is distinctly dropping off and folk aren't suckers for greedy bullshitters, their smug manipulations will fall flat.

Sales are falling and have been for a while.... Hasn't stopped them so far!

From my point of view, I STILL haven't heard a convincing argument as to why 29" or 27,5" is better than 26".

Yes, I understand the theory - bigger wheels roll faster; they take more effort to accelerate but maintain momentum for longer; they're slower to steer because of the greater gyroscopic forces generated. But that's two positives and two negatives as far as I can see - which [b]in theory[/b] cancel each other out.

Mountain bikes in the UK have had 26" wheels for nearly 25 years. They've worked fine in that period. Why change what isn't broken, unless it's because you're running out of original ideas and (no pun intended) you have to reinvent the wheel to give your flagging sales a boost?

I'm neither for nor against 29" or 27,5" over 26"; but until someone comes up with a cogent argument as to why I should change and not some marketing bullshit that has no scientific basis whatsoever, I'm sticking with 26".

[i]Sales are falling and have been for a while[/i]

They obviously think this is the answer!

My guess is that "twentysevenfive" is so similar to and indistinguishable from 26 that when people test ride one it feels familiar and good. So "650bee" is the one they go for.
So it's the future!

So it's the future!

My MTB is so obsolete it's actually quite funny now.

26" wheels (held on by things called "quick release")
ISIS BB/cranks
Dual Control (flappy paddle) shifters
9 speed
triple chainset
25.4mm bars

I can't walk into a shop and buy anything for it cos either nothing fits or if it does fit, it's not compatible with anything else!

The seatpost is also a bit of a weird size - 26.8mm IIRC.

double locks 26" full sus and single speed,
pats them and smiles, you'll be worth a fortune in a few years my pretties

I'm so confused!
Is it "Twentysevenfive"? "twentysevenpointfive"? "twentyseveandahalf"? or "sixfiftybee"?
I always thought "twentyniner" now I'm hearing "twoniner"!

Seeing as it's exactly 25mm (i.e. ~1 inch) bigger than 26 it must be simply 27.

double locks 26" full sus and single speed,
pats them and smiles, you'll be worth a fortune in a few years my pretties

Yep scrap metal is worth a fortune, that's why there's so many bike thefts

I'm so confused!
Is it "Twentysevenfive"? "twentysevenpointfive"? "twentyseveandahalf"? or "sixfiftybee"?
I always thought "twentyniner" now I'm hearing "twoniner"!

He also calls it 'twosevenfive' at one point in the other video.

Will a new Giant seatpost really bring my arse to life? That would be worth some cash.

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Sales are falling and have been for a while.... Hasn't stopped them so far!

I reckon this has hit the nail on the head. Don't forget that ten years ago, full suss bikes were only just getting platform damping and disc brakes, features that were revolutionary. Since then bikes have had minor geometry changes, are a wee bit stiffer and possibly a few grammes lighter, but there's nothing game changing.

Seeing a new Fox fork every year which promises marginally better performance for a pro rider but at a £50 premium over the previous year's model is getting extremely wearing. As we've said before, the myriad models and axle standards are doing naff all to lower production costs!

I have three bikes, two full sussers and a hardtail. None of them are ten speed, none of them have Fox forks, none of them are 29" (or 27.5") and none of them are made of carbon. But I love riding them. As it happens the only new bike I'm considering buying is in fact a 26"er.

I sincerely hope that the big brands' marketing people read these forums.

I sincerely hope that the big brands' marketing people read these forums.

I don't, have you seen the bikes that come up in "Show me your...." threads.

I'm all for options on different wheelsizes but there are too many biased views on both pro and con sides of the argument for it to be based on the opinions of forum users.

Also 26" hardtails aren't except from Marketing BS its just the Marketing BS YOU want.

Bikes have progressed loads since 29er came along, not trying one of the larger sizes based only on you not thinking the wheelsize for you is only going to limit yourself. There plenty of 29er/650b hardtails that are more fun to ride than some 26er hardtails. Choose a bike on ride not wheelsize.

The fact is, if you're shit and slow, you'll remain shit and slow regardless of the size of you're wheels. The End.

I was on the outdoor pumptrack at the Manchester Velodrome. Theres three step downs- the third being unrollable IMO- you have to wheelie off (or whatever you call it). Anyway I watched a 29'er approach it waaaaay too slow and I cringed. He rolled it.

For me, at that moment I thought thats a talent compensator too far.

Going back to the original mountain bikes- it made it HARD. We've had it easier and easier. I think part of the fun is it being 'just' on control/abit hard etc etc, when you can roll stuff easier etc I don't know.

All we have to do is not buy one.......

[i]Bikes have progressed loads since 29er came along[/i]

Is this those oblong wheels Jamie mentioned?

I was on the outdoor pumptrack at the Manchester Velodrome. Theres three step downs- the third being unrollable IMO- you have to wheelie off (or whatever you call it). Anyway I watched a 29'er approach it waaaaay too slow and I cringed. He rolled it.

For me, at that moment I thought thats a talent compensator too far.

didn't think they might be a better rider than you?

didn't think they might be a better rider than you?

Better than Hora? Wash your filthy mouth out.

None of this matters.

didn't think they might be a better rider than you?

Real men come last you know.

..Maybe but I wouldn't have attempted to roll it.

Toe curling 650b marketing guff.

I was camped by the BMX track near Vallnord when the WC was there, loads of the XC riders would drop by for some laps. It was pretty shocking how ungainly the bikes were, even in the hands of "pro/good" riders. I think I only saw one guy that managed to look good with his big wheels.

It was pretty amusing to see them getting schooled by little kids on their cheap bmxs.

All we have to do is not buy one.......

What I WOULD like to see Giant do is design and build beautiful bikes, bikes that I would like to buy. My XT890F(?) was my last Giant back in 2001. They make some bloody **** ugly bikes don't they? I know their old 26'ers are supposed to ride good etc but boy they look cheap/nasty.

[i]All their inane wittering just translated in my head to "we've found a way to make all previous bikes obsolete and hopefully sell a shitload more"[/i]

That's what it means in [i]their[/i] heads!
In mine it translates to "blah blah new bullshit new blah blah new blah new bullshit..."etc 🙂

[i]They make some bloody **** ugly bikes don't they?[/i]

Ooh, he's got a point, you know

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I was on the outdoor pumptrack at the Manchester Velodrome. Theres three step downs- the third being unrollable IMO- you have to wheelie off (or whatever you call it). Anyway I watched a 29'er approach it waaaaay too slow and I cringed. He rolled it.

For me, at that moment I thought thats a talent compensator too far.

FFS Hora, there were kids on CX bikes rolling that lot when the Rapha SuperCross was on at Philips Park last weekend. Even a few of the adults had a roll round it, there was one guy on a Kinesis CX bike getting some pretty good air. The track is doable on everything from BMX to hybrids!

It was pretty amusing to see them getting schooled by little kids on their cheap bmxs.

In their deffence:

*The pros probably spend as much time on the road bikes as the kids do at the BMX track
*Everyone looks ungainly at a BMX track on an MTB regardles of wheel size, but it is even worse on bigger wheels, the wheels are big relative to the transitions which makes the arc the axle/bike describes much tighter than the smaller wheels, and the longer wheelbases makes taking off/landing on shorter transitions more difficult.
*The pro's would prbably 'school' them on BMX's

Nothing but 26 inch wheels in my garage and hopefully it will remain so for a very long time. I just can't see the point of it all, who are all these ordinary punters who DEMAND!!! the highest performance bike no matter what? I like riding bikes for fun, the slower I can go and still have a laugh the better.

But at the end of the day there is so little difference between 26" and 650b that it hardly matters, when and if my current bikes expire I may get one but not just becuase it is 650b.

As for 29'ers - no way, I really think they will become a bit niche.

The woman from trek, who was talking sense, has a obvious pause. As she goes through the travel size wheel size in her head. the good lady has to stop herself 26" is best for flicking around. Definate look of conflict on her face!

[i]But at the end of the day there is so little difference between 26" and 650b that it hardly matters, when and if my current bikes expire I may get one but not just becuase it is 650b.[/i]

Someone (ie. me) might've said that already.

hora - Member

unrollable IMO <snip> He rolled it.

I would be revising that opinion I think 🙂

*Everyone looks ungainly at a BMX track on an MTB regardles of wheel size

*The pro's would prbably 'school' them on BMX's

* Honorable exception goes to Jose Ulloa (mexican junior) who was rad, even on a 29er.

My MTB is so obsolete it's actually quite funny now.

26" wheels (held on by things called "quick release")
ISIS BB/cranks
Dual Control (flappy paddle) shifters
9 speed
triple chainset
25.4mm bars

Tick to that lot apart from the flappy paddles - but then I'd argue you were buying into a fad with those anyway. It seemed such an ultimate bike when I built it up 6 years ago.

Why does it seem to be such a shock that bike companies want to sell more bikes?
If you're not in the market for a new bike then what does it matter?

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My Anger has now turned to sadness as, watching the video again you have to understand that 650b has'nt come from the marketing department at all.....Its actually come from the accounts department.

There is no way im riding a bike because an accountant tells me to

Oh and did you notice what the guy from Giant says at the beginning : ' We realised that 29 inch wheels wasnt right for all Markets and err riders '

says it all doesnt it? - its just about Markets, and im guessing he is referring to the Asian ones. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Maybe but I wouldn't have attempted to roll it.

If you'd had a twosevenfiver you could have smoothed out the trail enough to roll the drop, AND made the trail come alive.

Shame all this guff in my opinion is hurting the industry... I mean imagine trying a few shops to buy a bike and getting bamboozled by all the wheel size bobbins !!!

I decided to stick to what I have 26" and to hell with it 🙂 🙂

Why does it seem to be such a shock that bike companies want to sell more bikes?
If you're not in the market for a new bike then what does it matter?

[img] [/img]

Trek employee at 1.45 - 26" wheels are best for up to 140mm / 150mm travel bikes.

So that's most of them then..