jump track on the whole 9 yds, think again - the last section of that was also fenced off for forestry work. The other end by the manhole cover wasn't fenced so I guess it may only by shut to the fire road with the double drop on.
You've lost me?
Jump track on 9 yards? you mean ride 9 yards from the lookout to the manhole above the gulley, then turn left rather than crossing the fire road, almost the way you came back to the double drops?
That's an interesting way to be going AFAIK that doesn't really go anywhere other than back to the lookout, and I like that bit of trail so it'll be nice if it's weather resitant (as long as they dont remove the drops). But slightly worried that if they're including that bit of trail then they might not even be heading towards the labrynth!
I really hope they don’t restrict us to the three new trails, although I suppose they probably will.
I take a group of kids and newbies to Swinley about once a month. At the moment there are enough trails to enable us to vary the route to suit the kids’ abilities. They can get plenty of practice at all the fun stuff - roots, drop-offs, berms, mud, climbs.
As most of Swinley is empty, even on Sundays, we can avoid any areas that are a bit crowded and also ride a different route every month.
If we are all forced into using three short routes I worry that some weekend warriors could get pretty shitty because there is a ten year old on a rigid Islabike in front of them on "their" red route.
I would also be pretty difficult to stop and do a bit of training over obstacles if all the routes are now armoured motorways.
I suppose we all will all still be able to ride in Crowthorne and the bit behind the top of Deerstalker?
Picture posted on the Swinley FB group looks like the actual trail itself will be quite nice to ride.. but I don't think that was ever in doubt with Rowan Sorrell involved.
Tinas - I meant if you're on the 9yds heading for the gully, then the last section of 9 yards before the manhole has got the forestry work. There's a fireroad/wide track that crosses that 2/3 of the way down the bermy bit.
I don't think anyone is in doubt that the quality will be good, it's the fact it'll be restricted to one way, and all the non-waymarked stuff will allegedly be at best 'off limits' (ie officially not to be ridden) and at worst, actively blocked off / dug up.
Well said ThotherJonv
To be fair, some of the new trails cut in over the last week look quite exciting
Pictures of new trails at Swinley
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rkendall/sets/72157632091821526/
The plans are up on facebook but you need to join the Swinley Action Group group in order to see them
@ markhw - thanks for sharing the pics, looks promising.
interesting. as long as they dont stop me riding in from crowthorne woods underneath the bridge and just joining the red route there.
Are those photos of the green trail or the blue trail?
Can anyone see what's happening at the Labrynth? Looks like possibly going in at the end of deerstalker and doing a portion of the labrynth? But then it looks like it goes in and turns right (whereas the labrynth is on the left).
interesting. as long as they dont stop me riding in from crowthorne woods underneath the bridge and just joining the red route there.
Can't see how they could without putting up a big fence, Crowthorne is FC up untill the gate at the end of the Seagull?
they'd need to block off the fireroad going in to stop me.... wonder how much crossing over fireroads the routes will do as walkers and dog walkers will still use them and i fully plan on teaching my dog to ride along side the bike on some of the fireroads in there...
Is it just me that can't open anjs' first link - the pdf*? I'm guessing the jpg is a rough outline of blue & red routes???
Unless they build bridges or tunnels there will be plenty of fire road crossings, so opprtunities to join wherever you like (& ride whichever way you like!)
* - EDIT - chrome opened it fine, FFox didn't want to
tis what i was thinking with the fireroad crossings...
hope it doesn't suck the fun out of swinley by having lots of grumpy strava people getting pissy at people being slower than them.
EDIT: to explain a little better.... it was nice chillin behind new riders on bits like the labyrinth, holding back a good distance and giving bits of encouragement, i hope the new trails dont end up with unnofficial trail guardians getting angry at people being too slow in their opinions. people can't progress to the next level without trying the next level!
@ packer - those are of the red trail- saw them sunday, gonna be sweet, not extreme, but faster than most at swinley
not extreme, but faster than [s]most[/s] either of the other two trails at swinley
if you believe what's being said about the rest of the trails there 😥
Good to see a few more positive views on this page. Page 2 in particular was full of extreme negativity.
Looks like on the blue trail there will be a fair bit of new singletrack.
Looks like there a few sections of fireroad still on the red which is a shame.
Good to see a few more positive views on this page. Page 2 in particular was full of extreme negativity.
Mine, and I suspect others negativity is due to CE's attitude coming accross as "they're our toys and we'll take them home whenever we like". the first most people on here heard about it was either this thread or coming accross the trail closed signs.
It wouldn't have hurt them to to put some signs up explaing what was/is/will go(ing) on or have a more public consultation, the majority of people probably aren't on BOB or the facebook group.
I would be very sad if you really aren't allowed off the prescribed trails. Tragedy.
the first most people on here heard about it was either this thread or coming accross the trail closed signs.
I'll second that. Between the guys at work and myself we ride Swinley at least once a week, if not more and to not hear anything of this until it was announced on here was a bit dissapointing to be honest.
I'm going to be interested to hear how they are going to police riding in the 'banned areas'. There is still quite a few of well used trails that don't look as though they are going to be encompassed within the new routes.
Long gone are the days of few bikers using swinley, it attracts riders from all over the south, and in all weather. If the choice is ride built trails* or closing it, then I know what Id go for know matter how much I might dislike it. But some of the trails are trashed now, both through weather and traffic. Mind you, I cant see that we do any more damage than say: a dirty great big water pipe project....
* lots of people ( rightly or wrongly) want to go mountain biking solely on these types of trail. Each to their own
Can anyone see what's happening at the Labrynth? Looks like possibly going in at the end of deerstalker and doing a portion of the labrynth? But then it looks like it goes in and turns right (whereas the labrynth is on the left).
Think that's right.
Here's the (incomplete)[url= 
][list]old map[/list][/url]
Here's the [list][url= https://docs.google.com/file/d/1kxZn3LhAacd0qAxCz-OJfweP16zClpJ6FF8R7eap-XZeVKCnhkgSEl2mGNd6/preview?pli=1 ]new map[/url][/list]
Looks like Babymaker and that rather fun downhill run next to it are to be bulldozed, which is a shame.
I don't know if any of the trails there are really bad. Nothing out of the ordinary for a forest trail. I mean there's mud and all, but that's not a big deal. It's not like say the main routes up the Brecon Beacons or something.
...unless I'm reading this wrong and the 'DH zone' will actually contain those runs separately... *fingers crossed*
What he said +1 about babymaker seemingly avoiding the cull, shame mini-alps seems to be missed out though, that could do with a propper surface! 🙁
Odd that they've designated DH and freeride areas, but the current 'advanced mountainbiking area' isn't shown. Does that mean the other jumps/drops are being removed. And does it mean babaymaker etc are being made official like the red/blue trails or willthey just be a free for all for the diggers to continue building what they like?
I suppose a lot of the negativity stems from realising how lucky we have been with Swinley until now.
For the past 10-15 years we’ve been able to go there and just ride where we like without any bother from anyone. The network of trails was always evolving I found it still possible to come across new bits or re-discover areas I hadn’t ridden for years. Every ride can be different and despite the crowds and trashed trails it can still feel like you are just exploring some woods on a bike.
And sometimes you meet the nicest people at the bottom of a bog, or tangled up in some bushes, or hopelessly lost.
I suppose something was bound to happen, it is just too popular to stay as it is (a big kids playground). For me the writing was on the wall when BOB started building Sticklers rather than just repairing the trails that were suffering from overuse. I’m sure the whole “trail centre experience” will be fun, for at least a while, but I’ll miss the mud, the roots, the odd little out of the way bits, and not being able to ride seagull in both directions.
The trails I'll miss are New England switchbacks and the one parallel to 9yards by the drain cover end. That was a nice one and has already gone under felled trees. Hopefully the new blue trails will be worth the loss. It will be nice to have all-weather trails, although the motorway surfacing oils definitely do with a shedload of rocks to add some interest. It will be a shame too that 'big drop' has gone as that was about the only techy bit. Plus the first ever trail I rode there, a nice twisty one opposite the reservoir, has gone as have the steep ones at the top of the wall. Shame.
Someone should show this thread to the authorities, so they can see what they are destroying forever.
Was thinking something similar molgrips. I'd have thought that Gorrick, BOB & the Facebook group probably share a lot of the concerns expressed on here. AFAIK they've all had some sort of contact with the CE & SorrelCorp about this work, but either haven't asked/had answers about these things or else are sitting on the info as part of some sort of secret conspiracy pact (where's that tin foil hat?).
Someone should show this thread to the authorities, so they can see what they are destroying forever.
What? That they've upset the "middle class whiney (coloquial term for penis)bags" as the urbandictionary.com defines STW?
[b]YOU CAN TAKE OUR 8FT WIDE BOGS THAT USED TO BE SINGLETRACK[/b]
[img] 
[/img]
[b]BUT YOU CAN NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!!!!!!!![/b]
as usual this thread shows humans really love change... not. ;o)
Looking at this logically, man made trails get used most of the time by most of the people. We all use them now to link the tourist hotspots - Stickler, Seagull etc. Then we ride (AKA get lost) around linking these with nice more natural trails.
So whats going to change? Nowt.
We'll still mostly use the man made trails, only now there will be more. We'll still be going to the tourist hotspots and now linking more up with the new man made trails. And we will still be going off these new routes around the forest BUT most people, most of the time will use the armoured trails, thus probably reducing wear and tear on the more natural stuff.
Trail centres arent bad things, they help to introduce more people to the sport we love. I like the fact theres a green route, ace for total newbies and families. The new trails arent gong to stop people determined to use the more natural stuff. Stop moaning. ;o)
So whats going to change? Nowt.
Hopefully. Is it only the yellow brick road stuff that's to be preserved? If so, will it be made into one single loop?
Every time I [s]get lost[/s] ride there about 50% of it is the yellow brick road, the rest is nice peaty singletrack and random trails of various kinds. I don't want to be made to stop doing that.
Trail centres are great things, I love them and ride at them a lot. However at every one I know, the trail centre is not at the expense of 'natural' trails. You can still do that if you choose. I'm just worried that this would take a big area of forest out of commission.
So whats going to change? Nowt.
Depends how they enforce the ban on mountainbiking.
On the one hand they may do nothing (I presume they're not stopping families riding round on the fire roads) and everything will continue as normal, abeit with a one way system, which lets face it, we'll probably ignore at off peak times.
On the other hand they had got more visible checking permits in the last few years so could have a jobsworth in a landrover chastising people for riding the corkscrew (which isn't on those maps unless I'm imagining it in the wrong place?). Or even worse, completely demolishing anything unofficial or some tactical clear felling.
And what molgrips said about most trail centers not being att he expense of natural trails +1. No one is unhappy about new trails. We're less happy about the loss of exisitng ones (or at least the permission to ride on them).
I dont think anybody will stop you, how can they? the point is to reduce usage off the mtb trail, which will happen naturally as more people will stick to the man made stuff. they cant sign post every footpath or police every junction, the forest is too big and rambling, what they can dol is make statements to discourage people straying and hand in hand with dryer, and more man made stuff, it will. It will put 'day trippers off', is all, not regulars who know the forest well.
I'm looking forward to seeing some fat blokey trying to chase us MTBers off a trail puffing and panting running down the single track after us.
From what i hear the consultation with BOB's and Gorrick etc has gone like thus
"We don't like what you're planning... maybe you should..."
reply "We don't care what you like or don't like, this is how it's going to be....."
"Yes but...what about.."
"Yeah, we don't care ...."
Ad Infiniitum.
so could have a jobsworth in a landrover chastising people for riding the corkscrew (which isn't on those maps unless I'm imagining it in the wrong place?). Or even worse, completely demolishing anything unofficial or some tactical clear felling.
This is my concern - my understanding is that there's going to be three colour coded, defined routes, and the rest (all the off-official map stuff) is going to be off limits. And what does that mean - illegal* to ride but still actually there, or actively blocked off or bulldozed / ripped up.
* remember, it's private land, the landowner can in theory ban bikes if they want to. Then you get into the usual discussion about who can enforce that, trespass, etc., but different from the usual theft of a cheeky footpath where unless it goes right through a farm you're unlikely to actually encounter the landowner or their agent, they will have wardens in landrovers so the chances of being caught in the act will be far higher.
Technical point to TINAS - corkscrew is not on the Crown Estate, it's on FC land in Crowthorne wood. So not part of this process, but who knows what the future holds for that side of the fence too.
so will people need permits once all this is done?
LOL they have for Years mate.
i know, i've got permits dangling off my bike 🙂 i just wondered as the permit money went towards BOB/gorrick/insurance i thought, but its a different company doing the work now?
no, permit scheme is ending
Current policy on permits (at least as of two weeks ago) is that if you need to buy a day permit, you get your car park charge refunded. No discount if you bought a yearly permit though!
In his press release from CE, John Deakin states that they have made a conservative estimate of 170,000 riders per year using Swinley.
Out of idle curiosity I did a few calcs, based on some assumptions:
80% of riding is done on the weekend: 136,000 riders @ weekends
50 weekends a year (100 days): 1360 riders per weekend
Riders set out between 9-2: 272 riders per hour
Which would mean that on AVERAGE, you'd have 4.5 riders per minute (or roughly one every 13 seconds) setting out from just the ONE blue trail by the lookout. That's not even adjusted for seasons, where I would guess you could easily double it for Bank Holidays or summer holidays.
Considering 170,000 was a "conservative estimate", is the biggest danger not just that the Blue run will become incredibly over-crowded as everyone uses it to either get to the Jump/Freeride section, or to DH section, or to the red route?
Back of a fag packet calculations, I know.
I think that incudes familys going for a ride on the fire roads. Although 5 riders/minute probably isn't a bad estimate for the whole 9 yards on a dry weekend. If you pause for a rest someone or more likely a group will overtake you.
I went round at about 10pm on a Saturday night, there were still 4 sets of lights just on Stickler as I pased! Say most people were there for 2 hours, maybe 10 areas the size of stickler, 40 riders makes that one settign off every 3 minutes even at the most off peak of times!
170,000 does seem an odly exact figure, I wonder if there's been a machine counting wheels past Go-ape and the tea rooms?
I dont believe their numbers are right, i know its a big forest but I cant, and havent, seen 1300 odd riders in there even on a summers weekend.
own up, who is half a rider? must be me. :o)
Agree with the calc to get the 4.5 riders per min, but the reality would probably be more like a group (of say 5-10 on average) would pass by within a few seconds of each other, and then no-one else for another minute or two. And a minute of riding at 12km/h (just to keep the calc simple) is 200m, so you're talking gaps between groups of 200-400m. Still busy, but particularly on the twisty stuff, 200m can put you out of sight with the group ahead and the group behind so you may as well be the only group on the trail.
The issue will be at the start / end of sections, where groups will regroup and in doing so the next will catch up, so will be like playing golf - each hole can be played almost non-stop, but then you'll bunch up on the next tee again. Do we need an agreed etiquette on the back of the trail map reminding us to let faster riders through 😉
This has got me down. Been riding here since 92. Permit and all. Among people I ride with we have had the odd conversation along the lines of......
its getting busier - but it will clear out come the winter......and then it's still busy - one day it might be an idea to get a few routes 'one way' traffic etc.
Anyway, I will give it a try, but out of protest - I MAY NOW NOT BUY A CUP OF TEA.
An idea (not a good one) but does anyone fancy redoing the Swinley flash mob / love in?
I have been on a couple in the past - and loved being shown new routes and ways to link up old faithful routes.
May be this is the last chance to 'legally' hit all the Gold in the forrest?
the point is to reduce usage off the mtb trail, which will happen naturally as more people will stick to the man made stuff. they cant sign post every footpath or police every junction, the forest is too big and rambling, what they can do is make statements to discourage people straying and hand in hand with dryer, and more man made stuff, it will. It will put 'day trippers off', is all, not regulars who know the forest well.
Indeed, I reckon the big point has been that up till now there's never been a cohesive 'loop' with the existing trails, so a lot of the daytrippers wander off piste, as other than the built trails there's no 'direction' to tell them what to do next.
I like the sound of that.An idea (not a good one) but does anyone fancy redoing the Swinley flash mob / love in?
But Phil's married now, is he still allowed sexyparties?
lol of course i'm allowed sexy parties!
but it doesn't have to be me that organises them 😉 set a time and date, promote it, make the point that everyone is welcome and anybody who think's they're cooler than another rider because of their bike or skills will be bluntly reminded of how much of a knob they look in a bike helmet and riding clothes.... sorted.
Because there can never be enough threads about Swinley
So, in summary then - will I be able to ride there tomorrow night?
I must admit that I am uncertain what people mean by "trail centres" other than it being a term of abuse on STW. I only ride in Surrey Hills and Lakes mostly singletrack and off-piste stuff. The only TC I have visited was Whinlater in the Lakes which I enjoyed (as something different) and so I guess TC=slightly sanitised surfaces (ie fewer roots and boggy bits?) with differing degrees of difficulty, some rocks, a few jumps and berms etc but with more obvious obstacles.
If my understanding is correct, then I see what is happening at Swinley as a glass half full. I would imagine that the result would be a series of TC routes where 90% of the traffic will be concentrated combined with a degree of stuff similar to now where the remaining 10% will spend the most/some of their time. The Crown Estates (is that correct) are hardly going to have the resources or the desire for draconian policing.
So I expect much of the same as now albeit with some of existing trails being constructed better/sanitised (your choice) plus loads of off-piste stuff remaining for those in the know.
Plus ca change, rien na change
So, in summary then - will I be able to ride there tomorrow night?
Yes
The good thing about Swinley was that it was a lot of trail centre quality trails that you could link together with quality natural stuff in endless combinations. TCs are usually a small number of set loops of which you do laps.
The Crown Estates (is that correct) are hardly going to have the resources or the desire for draconian policing.
Well that's just it, isn't it. They probably won't be able to stop us, but it still criminalises what we are currently able to do via permit. I don't want the stress of being an outlaw, tbh.
Now, it could well be that they are taking this stance in the knowledge that we will continue to ride, to let them off the hook for insurance purposes. If so, it's not a bad idea. As I understand it, it'd be the same situation as with the MoD land in the area - if I understand the byelaws correctly you're only allowed on the fire-roads in there, but everyone happily ignores the rule.
I have only ridden there once recently and enjoyed the contrast. The one with all the work being done then (strickler? nr the tank traps) was certainly different from the more natural stuff that I ride locally, but still fun and good for practicing cornering technique (but wouldnt want to ride that all the time). Still not sure how such a long trail was fitted into such a small area - totally lost my sense of direction on that one!!!
mol - I think your final para will be close to the truth, hopefully!
Sorry to resurrect this post again, but does anyone know if there is a contact name/ e-mail address for the person in charge of these alterations?
I've been asked by a local childrens cycling club to pass on some concerns, but there doesn't seem to be anybody to pass those concerns on to.
I'm guessing Rowan Sorrell is just the contractor doing the work. I'd like to contact the shady "Mr. Big" who must be in charge. Presumably its someone at Crown Estates?
[url= http://www.gorrick.com/swinley/news_item.php?id=503 ]This meeting[/url] tonight might be a quicker way of getting your voice heard. Can't make it myself - anyone going?
thepurist - Member
This meeting tonight might be a quicker way of getting your voice heard. Can't make it myself - anyone going?
Mate of mine is going yes. However at this stage he doesn't have much of an 'opinion' .... quite a few worries like the rest of us... but who's to say the people building aren;t right.... that will only be truely apparent after it's done 🙂
I'd like to contact the shady "Mr. Big" who must be in charge. Presumably its someone at Crown Estates?
John Deakin is the Chief forester / overseer of this initiative
I've changed my mind, after slogging through ankle deep mud for 12miles/2 hours of whats supposed to be a fairly quick 30mile loop in the Chilterns on Saturday evening, some good all weather trails can't come soon enough!
As long as horsey types are banned so I've got some rideable trails I don't care!
I'll cope with being an outlaw on the natural trails. And the yellow brick road stuff can always be ridden back to front at night to get some more variety.
Thanks,
I know a couple of people who I think will be going to that meeting.
No direct contact for John Deakin, so I've e-mailed the crown estates press office, hoping they will pass a message on.
While we're on the subject of cycle paths. Does anyone have a good explanation why the cyclepath allong Nine Mile Ride heading away from Swinely towards TRL gets to the roundabout, crosses the road several times then officialy ends. Whilst if you ignore it and stay on the pavement it carry's on uninterupted for another mile or so.
I'm not adverse to riding in the road, but as it's there I use it.
Anyone get along to that meeting last night, or heard anything from those that did?
Cheers martinh - being positive it sounds like there's some interesting new sections going in and only minor tweaks to improve existing stuff. On the downside the 'grand opening' he mentions in March could lead to 4 months of further and further restricted riding as each of the existing parts gets closed to be worked on. No mention of the fate of other existing trails either.
All looks good the only bit that seems a bit of a shame is the fireroad from seagull to the reservoir.
[url= 
]MAP[/url]
On my usual route I tend to use roller coaster and do seagull the other way.
Obviously soreen cant consider roller coaster as its on MOD land.
I reckon the red trail would flow better in the other direction myself.
Obviously tanks traps/Lab/Deer stalker can only be riden one way, but minor changes to the route could easily sort that.
Thanks for the post. Seems a very sensible bloke. Glass 3/4 full if not more IMO.
I didn't go, but here is a useful summary of the meeting, ripped off another website:
[i]
Swinley is a commercial forest run owned and by the crown estate. Mountain Biking was originally permitted on Fireroads and in the area defined as the Expert Mountain Biking area. However the trails have expanded outside of the original area to cover the forest.
Swinley Forest is home to 3 types of rare ground nesting birds, Natural England has designated Swinley a Special Protection Area and requested that clear felling take places to provide an environment for these birds, they've also requested that access is restricted to these area to avoid disturbing the birds.
CE has been subject to multiple liability insurance claims by individuals who have had accident on features on the unregulated trails.
Because of these 2 reasons (erosion is not an issue) CE have had to develop a plan to provide a sustainable method of permitting Mountain Biking, and have been in discussion with Rowan Sorrel for the past 18 Months who has devised the strategy for Swinley. Although members of BOB and Gorrick have been consulted, the plans suggested by BOB and Gorrick we not workble so the original plan has been actioned.
There will be 3 routes:
A green run for beginners and children, this is being developed with input from 2 local schools.
A blue run which will wider than singletrack, fast and flowy.
A red run which will be mainly technical singletrack with potentially some black features.
The Blue and Red routes will include some existing trails plus a lot of new tracks, where existing trails are used some work will be done to improve the surfces and flow.
There will also be a Downhill area by deerstalker/labrynth, and a free ride area in the Gully area.
Riding on all fireroads is still permitted
Apart from the above marked trails/areas, the rest of the forest is off limits. Wardens will use a soft approach to illegal riders, reminding them the only permitted trails/areas are permitted, however if this doesn't work thet may need to take further action.
Crowthorne Woods (bomb holes, corkscrew) are not included in the Changes to Swinley as it is Forestry Commission land, however FC are watching the development in Swinley to see how to proceed.
The permit scheme finishes in March, replaced with the carparking charge which applies to all vistors not just MTBers. The new trails will open in March 2013.
It is envisioned that the new Swinley Access Group (SAG) will help provide voluntery assistance to help perserve,maintain & develop the new trails. It is also stated that the current plans are not the end of trial development.
There is still a question mark over XC/Enduro racing at Swinley, as all events will be limited to having to use the new trails.
It should be noted that all users of the forest will be subject to control restrictions over the next few years, with new walking trails developed.[/i]
Makes for interesting viewing/reading and I'm sure Rowan Sorrell will build some great sections, but there are some long fireroad sections on the Red and lots of good existing trail will be lost.
And i prefer riding Seagull East to West. So its a shame that it'll be one way West to East.
Be interested to know what BOB/Gorrick proposed that was rejected.
John said in his talk that one of the main things they proposed in meetings were two way trails.
Given that the cycling in Swinley will now be funnelled into just two loops, and that the increased signage and more accessible trails will attract more riders to the forest, it is probably unsurprising that this proposal was rejected.
It was asked in the Q&A how they intended to police this and whether he'd consider use of steps in the trails to make pushing/riding back up trails harder work - he hadn't given it a great deal of thought, but said he'd discuss how they'd manage it with Rowan - so it is on their agenda.
I don't know of any trail centre that allows two way trails?
Link to video of presentation:
Bit sad to see really, only ridden swinley a few times but enjoyed the variety and the novelty of being able to spot a trail off a fireroad and just point the bike down it. Rode really early in the morning when it was quiet which was fantastic. Spent a happy day just riding about following locals while the other half did the Dirt Divas course in Crowthorne Woods.
Will probably pop up sometime next year but it all looks a bit motorway from the map.
Not sad, will be great, rowan talks sense.
[i]Apart from the above marked trails/areas, the rest of the forest is off limits. Wardens will use a soft approach to [b]illegal[/b] riders,[/i]
And so it begins...We're to be criminalized for riding around a wood on bicycles... Crown Estates...Doesn't that ultimately belong to us?
I really can't see how they are going to identify, find, stop and eject riders straying off these trails without a massive increase in wardens.
Not about "erosion" my arse.... 🙄
nickc - have you actually watched either of those 2 videos posted up there?
And so it begins...We're to be criminalized for riding around a wood on bicycles... Crown Estates...Doesn't that ultimately belong to us?
No, it doesn't. It belongs to the Crown. Since George III though, all the income from the land has been given to the government - £250m last year. They make a loss at Swinley Forest, which is the only part of the portfolio which does make a loss (They own about £7bn worth of assets across the UK).
As for identifying illegal riders, they have realised they will need to increase their resources in terms of wardens on patrol. Initially at least they plan to softly educate people about why the changes have been put in place, but ultimately they could get a lot tougher. John Deakin stated he was very much not in favour of this and would only use it as a last resort if he fails to get the buy-in he's hoping for from the MTB community.
If it makes you feel any better it's not just MTBers who will be strongly encouraged away from potential breeding areas, it's all users of the forest.
It's all in the video 🙂
Reading between the lines they were talking about voulenteer groups maintaining the trails. Hopefully this means new trails can continue to be built as well as long as they're built to spec so that the liability argument is satisfied? And hopefuly the rules aout only BOB being allowed to be involved will change.
I don't know of any trail centre that allows two way trails?
I think that was the gripe, it's not a trail center, it was some trails in a wood that you could go and ride freely. Trail centers are good fun, but they're different.
nickc - have you actually watched either of those 2 videos posted up there?
+1, he seems to be getting hot and bothered about things that aren't true. It's been explained that walkers will be encouraged onto walking trails as well, it doesn't make it any better, but it's not just mountainbikers being singled out.
I don't know if "illegal" was the word used at the meeting. I just assumed it was shorthand for "people riding in areas that the landowners didn't want people riding in".
I got a bit depressed about the insurance liability claims by people who have had accidents on the unregulated trails. Rumour has it that there are 5 outstanding claims, one of which will cost 50k to settle. I imagine this is probably the main reason that crown estates are putting their foot down.