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Muckytee- I am not confident could perform changes like you suggested, so if I was just going to buy and ride one, should I go for the 456 or the blue pig. I am sure i could adjust suspension though
If it is the blue pig I should in fact go for could you suggest where I could get a 162 frame model?
Matt, to save you alot of hassle, go and ask on the Pinkbike forums instead. You'll be talking to people your own age. Fair enough, their spelling and grammar may not be upto much, but they'll recommend you a good bike for doing jumps and downhill on.
There recommendations will be based on their own experience's of riding dirt jumps and downhill (something that most STW forum members have never done), rather than based on what makes the most financial sense.
Honestly, if you turn up to a jump spot on a carbon 456, you'll get laughed at.
Honestly, if you turn up to a jump spot on a carbon 456, you'll get laughed at.
I've never been laughed at on my steel one, I get more ridicule on the BMX!
On the basis he doesn't have a car, has never been to a downhill track or even a trail center and want's a bike for riding about in the woods and posted a link to Swinely as an example of the kind of stuff he's interested in a downhill bikes going to be a bit of a lemon, especialy if he takes to the dirtjumps!
I've never been laughed at on my steel one, I get more ridicule on the BMX!
Are you 15 though? You're reiterating David's point, you get laughed at on a bmx because you are too old for (although i don't think you are), Matt on the other hand would get laughed at for a carbon 456 because he's too young for it(see above). i think the 456 is a good bike for a beginner who wants to get into non specific mountainbiking, But his first video suggested he wanted, essentially, to get into dirt jumping and there's little doubt pinkbike know more about doing that on the cheap and i doubt they would be recomending a 456.
I would get the Blue pig. [url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=62610 ]CRC click[/url]
The Blue pig will allow the OP to ride gnarr, in his local woods, whilst being strong enough for him to do 6ft+ jumps and drops off right?
If you want to do Dirt jump, that's hitting a place like this:
[img] http://www.bmx-zone.com/articlePic.php?id=54 [/img]
To do jumps and tricks. Then no, a 456, Blue pig, or a DH bike is not what you want. You will need a Dirt jump bike.
If you want to do all of the above, a compact hard tail with an adjustable fork is what you need.
I would agree on NOT getting a 456. It really is a (no offence) STW hardtail.
At your age I would be looking at bikes like the Charge Blender, look, here is what they do well...
The Blender is a fantastic steel hardtail with great 'ragging' geometry. I've ridden downhill tracks with mine, taken it round trail centres and on xc rides and also ridden street with it, it does it all.
[img] 
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[url= http://www.damianharriscycles.co.uk/prod/har_0008_ch/Charge/Blender-2012 ]HERE.[/url]
If I recall, you live in Devon. Get yourself along to Tavistock bikes or somewhere and go and sit on a few bikes. Deffo go to Gawton and Tavi woodlands and ride there and ask some of the riders what they think.
Above all, I think the type of riding you aspire to is better served by sites such as Southerndownhill and Pinkbike and you will get very different advice from there.
Incidentally, I'm 38 and ride a Blender... 😆
Kayak- that video is EXCACTLY the kind of places i ride, and i wll not be looking to do dirt jump like in the photo above.
I couldent find a video like the one you posted but that is a great representation of what im looking to do.
Well there you go then. Something like a Blender will do you nicely and allow you to progress your skills until such a time as you want to add a full-susser to your collection.
And I take it Gawton and Tavi woodlands have some good downhill riding?
Is there any others who agree with getting the Charge Blender?
Gawton is fantastic. They have 3 brilliant tracks of varying difficulty and are just adding a fourth one. There is also an uplift service available(I think). Great place, wish I lived nearer.
Tavi woodlands is supposed to be great too but I have not visited it myself.
You also have Southwest extreme which is down near Bideford somewhere. Its got a 4x track, some wood and some jumps and that.
I may take a trip up to Gawton with a few mates, can you rent bikes there? as none of my friends really have a suitable bike.
So there is a lot of good places to justify buying a good bike as well. Thats great to know
Not as far as I know at Gawton itself.
[url= http://www.dartmoorcycles.co.uk/blog/bike-rentals-at-dartmoor-cycles/ ]Dartmoor Cycles hire bikes[/url]
Ooh, I like that Charge video. Has a Cove Stiffee been mentioned yet?
Would tavistock Bikes rent bikes for the day?
Also is the Charge Blender suitable for my height if i am mid 150cm
FWIW I hated the blender, but then I'm 6ft and the blender is a tiny bike. Thought it felt more like a jump bike that could do some XC whereas the 456 and similar bikes are XC bikes that can jump.
Just get the one you like the look of, if ON-One made a marketing video it's probably look exactly the same, so would specialized, giant, trek, mongoose, GT, Lapierre, Sunn, Rose, Canyon, Cove, Devinchi, etc, so don't be swayed by the marketing, most of the guys in marketing videos could ride a shopping bike and make it look good.
Not entirely sure what people are getting at with the "your 16 you need a jump bike, 456's are for old people" argument, I bought a DMR Switchback at 17 for that kind of riding, and the 456 is pretty similar, and TBH better.
Ok, i will give it some thought before i buy, looks like the blender, 456 or pig
Buy whichever is cheapest and in stock now. Easy!
Yes, the blender is a relatively small bike but the OP would be fine I'm sure.
The age thing is a bit general I know but at the same time its fairly certain that the OP would get different advice on the likes of southern downhill than here.
Simply go and try some bikes out in some shops...
I knew this thread would be a long one 😆
The Blender is only 100mm travel, the chap in that video could ride a rigid 24" wheel bike and the results would look pretty similar. I don't think people have backed up their suggestions.
From all of the advice there is a strong promotion of steel hardtail frames. They are more comfy than their aluminium chums as they have a bit of give and a slightly springy ride.
Many of us have had or currently have a long travel steel hardtail, these have 130-150mm fork travel and include the 456, Blue Pig, Cotic Soul, Cotic BFe (Cotic are expensive), Dialled Prince Albert (very nice bike but sold as frame only) and many others. Genesis bikes are also worth a look at, the Latitude is a good all round steel hardtail.
There are different types of steel, many are made with Reynolds tubing. The higher the number the lighter & stronger it is. It is available in 520, 725 and the very fancy 853. Tange is a different brand which is what Charge and other brands use. On-One DN6 is probably comparable to Reynolds 520. 520 is 4130 BMX cromoly which is good steel.
You get either air or coil spring forks. Air is more tuneable to your weight and terrain. Coil is smoother, heavier, less maintenance but tuned by literally changing the spring inside.
Hydraulic brakes are a must, and anything in your budget should automatically come with them. Shimano are great and easy to maintain. Avid (elixir etc) are more fiddly and use a less friendly fluid.
Both Sram and Shimano make good gears/shifter/chains/cassettes. SRAM x5 or Shimano Deore is the basic standard, x7 or SLX is the next up (quite a step up in performance/weight), x9 or XT higher and x0 or XTR for racing level. X5 or Deore is perfectly adequate! 9 speed with 3 front rings was normal, more and more people are using 10 speed with 2 or 3 chainrings. For bikes ridden predominantly over hard ground a single front ring with some sort of device is common to stop the chain from bouncing off.
100mm forks are more conventional/olders style with the current jump bikes having either rigid, 80mm or 100mm forks. You set a fork to be around 25% into it's travel to maintain contact through rough ground, with more travel there is more fork to adapt to the terrain and further to absorb landing hits.
Read up a bit about steel hardtails, look on the On-One, Ragley, Genesis and Dialled Bikes websites to see what the manufacturers say and how they build each up. You will see similarities and differences based on the intended use of each.
Good luck!
Undoubtedly this will all be disagreed with by someone any minute 
Ok, the blender looks very nice aswell, i will test ride it if i can find one somewhere
Someone else talking sense - a charge blender, totally forgot about them. They look ideal.
Things that make the 456 less than ideal:
Long chainstays
Long top tube
Long forks
What you want is something the opposite of this. i.e. shortish top tube, shortish chainstays, shortish forks (theres obviously a balance to be struck) You will find the bike is more manouverable with these attributes and you''ll find it more fun to ride and easier to learn the basics on like jumps, bunnyhops, manuals etc. etc.
Herman, possibly the single most informative post I've ever seen on here. I have therefore flagged it to the mods as inappropriate.
To the OP I had a 456, I replaced it with a Dialled Alpine only because 853 steel is to old gits what carbon is to you youngsters. The Alpine is another frame-only long travel steel hardtail, is highly rated by owners and brings out the 12yr old in me. And that includes dirt jumps 😉
Ok so i have a equal spread of people saying the charge lender, the 456 and the pig.
i will have to make a decission, but based on that video what would be best of the 3?
The blender would certainly be the most fun and multi use out of all of them.
The 456s and hardcore hardtails, despite the name "hardcore" are still geared to somewhat sensible riding (despite what these old codgers claim). Going on a bike ride and clocking up some miles, doing some technical bits along the way.
The blender is very much more a play bike, better for jumps and messing around, learning and very capable. It will be bteer suited to jumping, freeride and mucking about in the woods.
Though i know people who learnt of 456s, DH and bmx trackes, and it certainly did not hold back their progression.
Ok so im thinking the Blender, and it even seems best for my height so I may go with that
The Blender is only 100mm travel,
I have u-turn Pikes on mine. I run them at 120mm for xc and 4x and wind them out to 140mm when wangin it.... Copes brilliantly with all settings.
crashtestmonkey: 😆
based on that video what would be best of the 3?
I'm out.
I have u-turn Pikes on mine. I run them at 120mm for xc and 4x and wind them out to 140mm when wangin it.... Copes brilliantly with all settings.
when you say you have a u-turn, what is that and do i need one if i buy the bike?
U-Turn is just the fancy name given to the Pike forks that have adjustable travel. It means you can adjust the travel to the kind of riding you're doing at that time like going up hill or downhill. Very handy if you have a do it all bike but easy to get obsessed with adjusting.
@matamomo you do have the distinct whiff of a troll. Go and find a proper mountain bike shop or two (ie not Evans) around the areas you want to ride, try out a few bikes and then buy what you want. You've gotten lots of good advice here including that post from Herman, there is no one right bike for you, many many options.
i will have to make a decission, but based on that video what would be best of the 3
when you say you have a u-turn, what is that and do i need one if i buy the bike?
oh well, now
[img] 
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U-Turn is just the fancy name given to the Pike forks that have adjustable travel. It means you can adjust the travel to the kind of riding you're doing at that time like going up hill or downhill. Very handy if you have a do it all bike but easy to get obsessed with adjusting.
Is it worth me investing in if I buy the Blender, or shall i wait a little while and just have fun with the Blender as soon as i get it
Im just goonna choose to ignore the troll message things as its breaking up the help i got from this thread, thanks for the waste of my time btw . . . appreciated
+1 for a blender see below links for photo & vids:
Photo (my blender): http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/6719126/
Videos:
Me on the blender (I'm in the purple): http://www.pinkbike.com/video/223512/
Not me, not a blender but a local track I ride with similar style bikes: http://www.pinkbike.com/video/144123/
Not me, not a blender, its a stanton slackline which looks awsome, only real difference is comes in a bigger size, ment to pedal up a bit easier and takes a 160mm fork, but the style of bike and the way the guy rides is how I like it, xc blast, hit the trails, dh tracks and 4x, versatile fun, good price.....this is special.....enjoy: http://www.pinkbike.com/video/144123/
P.s as much as I love my blender if i had funds I'd run a slackline with lyrik 2 step air forks 115/160but twice the price of my frame and forks, slackline is £400 frame on mine was £200, plus blenders come up 2nd hand with a good spec for £500-£600 often, slackline are new (and pretty special) and hardly come onto the market 2nd hand.
Small point mat. I wouldn't be complaining about having my time wasted. You're on holiday and asking for our advice. A bit of fairly friendly ribbing would seem a decent price for lots of good advice. Like I said. If you're not a troll don't let it get to you. But as far as I can see, no one's wasting your time.
My advice would be to get the 456. I started riding about the same ages as you, just as jump bikes were beginning to appear. Mine is currently sitting in the garage and gets no use at all, whereas if I'd bought a 456 equivalent at the time I'd still be riding it. Dirt jump bikes like the Blender are designed very specifically for jumping, so aren't as versatile as the 456 which can do bits of trail, bits of downhill and small jumps. If you live next to a dirt jump set then buy one of those. If you are doing what I was riding at your age, just ragging around the local woods, building a few little tracks and jumps, and occasionally going on longer rides around, then get the 456. It's a great beginner bike as its far more versatile than the Blender. The Blue Pig is an ok option, but you should go for whichever is cheaper, which is the 456.
I'm glad people have swung you around to a jumpier bike.
The 456/Blue Pig are all-day XC bikes able to handle techy stuff.
They aren't jumpy play bikes (not that it means you couldn't).
Best thing to do is look at the culture of the companies and see for yourself if they match your desires. The types of videos they release, the style of riders the owners are, etc.
The Blender looks good, as would similar bikes from more jumpy companies like NS Bikes, DMR, Transition, Stanton, Curtis, etc.
It's a sector of the market which has seen huge growth over the last few years and there are loads of options.
Buy a copy of Dirt magazine and see who all the advertisers are and have a good read around.
.
I smell troll too, but I'm sure there are others reading this thread who would appreciate all the discussion.
I am torn between the Blender and 456, but there seems more support now for the Blender so I guess I will pick one up 😀
I think the main appeal about it is its size, it would suit me perfectly where as a 16" frame may end up being too big
Mattamoto - there's a minc condition Charge Blender in the classifieds right now for £380 [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/charge-blender-price-drop ]here[/url] buy it & you could still get another bike, or more likely get the parts you'll break! HTH!!
I'm glad people have swung you around to a jumpier bike.
The 456/Blue Pig are all-day XC bikes able to handle techy stuff.
That's not really right. The bikes that match your description from those two companies would be the Inbred and the Piglet. The 456 and the Blue Pig are the "do-it-all" bikes, or the "hardcore hard tails", depending on your marketing preferences. Anyway, they're the ones that I'd be recommending. They're the most versatile, which I think is the most important thing for a beginner with only one bike. They will also take a few jumps. If Matt later gets really into dirt jumping he can always pick up a DMR Drone for £500. Alternatively if he gets really into Downhill he can save for a Specialized Status, but the 456/Blue Pig will always be a good bike to have alongside those others. Whereas if he gets the Blender, grows a bit and then decides he's not that into dirt jumping he'll be left with a bike that isn't much use.
Now i dont know, do i buy that £380 Blender . . . or should I get a pig.
Because that blender looks like a good deal.