I don't think ZP has ever reliably updated FTP.
I got my message as I left zwift. I hung around cooling down till about 25mins but then when straight to a second race without a zwift restart. Got the message as I left the second race (though the effort was in the first).
Do people really do two laps of that in a race? I guess the much suggested tactic of upto hill 10/20% lower than ftp, hill 10/20% over must go out of the window.
I always warm down for a while if I can which took me back around to the climb yesterday, I was thinking of jumping off at that point but thought to just do it again at a more sedate effort. I was aboard a road bike so surely that will help as well. There is no way on gods earth I could get anywhere near the same effort as the first time up and that’s after quite a decent period of recovery. I was creeping up at around 220w until got bored and tried to muster 300w for the final couple of sections but that was extremely painful.
Would definitely need a total rethink on strategy for two laps, don’t think I’ll ever try it though for some reason.
First TT for me, didn't realise the start wasn't straight from the pens. Hard work from the off but couldn't muster much on the later sections of the climb but enough for an FTP increase to 231 Watts. Great work everyone, a few passed me like i was rolling backwards!
I’m sure zwift uses more than one benchmark to auto detect ftp.
I think you must be right @sayoyad - last night I shut Zwift down as soon as I crossed the line so I could restart it for my wife's ride - I definitely didn't reach 20 mins and Strava has my ride time as 18.52, which is about 20 seconds longer than the race, so about right.
So it must have used something other than 95% of 20 mins to calculate my FTP increase
once again...Zwift hates me... 😀
DrP
That was my very first TT, it didn't fit in to reccie the course beforehand. I think I was too conservative on the flat, averaging about 80% ftp, then on the climb about 110% ftp until the last KM when I got a stitch (I haven't had a stitch for ages!) so backed off to ftp. Therefore I averaged under ftp for the whole route. Judging by how quickly I recovered, I could have gone harder, but now I know for next time.
That was my very first TT, it didn’t fit in to reccie the course beforehand. I think I was too conservative on the flat, averaging about 80% ftp, then on the climb about 110% ftp until the last KM when I got a stitch (I haven’t had a stitch for ages!) so backed off to ftp. Therefore I averaged under ftp for the whole route. Judging by how quickly I recovered, I could have gone harder, but now I know for next time.
With a two-phase TT course like that you just need to get a time on the board and take things from there - when you're confident you have the legs for the distance / climb / effort you can actually push the flat to 100% ftp and then raise the climb 110% +
The first K of the climb is critical for me - needs to be a sustained sort of increase, ie not get to the foot of it and think you need to blow it up. That will let me do the second K harder - I'm a 'steady' climber, though, to put it charitably. A good light climber might want to put a sharper effort in right away.
Anybody else using a Tacx Flow? Mine only seems to lose Bluetooth, (assuming that’s what’s happening) on climbs during races when I’m feeling strong.
I had one until recently and yes, over about 250w at lower cadence/low gears and they overheat. I bodger an old PC fan into the side of mine which helped but also seemed to give me wildly overestimated power (+20%). I guess just make sure it has some airflow.
Last night was my first TT! I think maybe I went a bit too easy on the flat (90%ftp), but seemed to be able to maintain 115-120% on the climb. It's a real ****er that though, ay? Alternating between seated and standing, maybe went too easy on the flatter (lol) bits. Still, pretty happy. Made me realise there's more to a TT than just going full gas. Interesting.
Seems like putting the TT in meant a lot of people got to try something new and different and enjoyed it! Glad that it had the desired effect and looks worthwhile considering for future Series.
Does the Watopia TT course use the same launch system? I did one TT on that over xmas but it was just a normal start from the pens. I thought other TT courses would use the same system?
With hindsight I could have gone harder. I forgot about the undulations at the start so was quite erratic there. HR didn't go over 165 so there was some reserve there as well. Think I may have another go on a fast Friday event and try to max out.
Is there a list somewhere of all courses ridden as TT? I should imagine Innsbruck with the leg snapper would be very good or a couple of laps of Paris.
HR didn’t go over 165 so there was some reserve there as well.
I didn't get above 170 so had another 13bpm to find somewhere!
@kirky72 - why don't you join the TTT on Thursday evenings? I think the only official routes are Fuego Flats and Bologna. There is a CC that organises TT events - I think it is Newbury Velo but there is a 8.30am TT on Tempis Fugit as well on Thursday. You can filter TT on the companion app.
@kirky72 any course can be offered as a TT. I think only tempus fugit and bologna offer the full TT mode though (conveyor belt start, TT focussed HUD and splits). Anywhere else and a TT just means a mass start with no draft available. Filter zwiftpower event listing by TT and you'll see what's on offer.
Zwift being zwift, there are sometimes races with "TT" in their name which don't seem to actually be set up as TTs. Nice for gamblers I guess.
@robbo I have considered it but Thursday is often my day for a ride of a decent length, ideally outside, then rest day Friday ready for a big ride Saturday. Also at the moment other than bits and pieces of ad hoc work I have most of the day free so it’s a shame to wait all day to race in the evening. I also struggle to wind down after until very late in the evening, used to hate the late on kick offs at 5 a side for this reason.
I’m definitely a morning person and it was hard yesterday kind of sacrificing a lovely bright day where I could have had a run out on the newish bike in favour of 20 minutes of pain in the evening. I’m enjoying the experience of the series on the night and the discussion before and after so the trade off is winning at the moment. Come spring and hopefully being able to ride some nice long loops outside again I should imagine my preference would be more around riding out supplemented by Zwift as and when.
we did the 2 lapper in the TTT a few weeks back. It was pretty brutal. You don't even finish at the top of the 2nd climb (as I'd wrongly assumed - should've done my research 🤣) so gave it all then realised we still had the descent & flat to do again 😭Do people really do two laps of that in a race? I guess the much suggested tactic of upto hill 10/20% lower than ftp, hill 10/20% over must go out of the window.
That was good, felt like I was stuck not going anywhere as soon as the wall hit - and the cadence seemed slower than the pedaling I was doing up the steep bits as people flew past me as I was stood still. Really pleased to have won the D cat, but as you said @robbo1234biking I am on the cusp on C/D - so it would either be winning D or last place in C by the look of those numbers. Looking forward to the next one.
I definitely didn’t reach 20 mins and Strava has my ride time as 18.52, which is about 20 seconds longer than the race, so about right.
I think it basically goes a bit screwy with short races.
It seems to use your race average power but ride time. Eg @Phil56 in your case it will be your 370w average race power +the short lead in any pedaling in the pen or warming up before etc. Your ride time is actually showing at 25 min which is plenty. It doesn't seem to adjust your ftp to best 20min though. It just takes your race avg power and calls it 20min if the ride time is over that.
I think it's an error in the implementation of the published one rather than another undisclosed method.
@kirky72 I know what you mean about struggling to wind down. I had a full on day yesterday so was quite tired last night but had an awful night's sleep. I was half dreaming about TT bikes and Bologna. I have always done Zwift and Traineroad in the evenings without a problem so I think it's the extra adrenaline of proper racing that lingers a bit. The biggest complement I can pay to the STW series is I never have problems sleeping after TdZ events!
A few people have mentioned not getting close to their maximum heart rates but in a 20 minute test, there's little to no chance of any HR drift and so it would really need to be an all out effort to get closer to MHR - not a relatively steady state effort like a TT. A sprint after an hour long race would always yield a higher HR I think.
The watobia tt is pan flat, I've done it lots. It's well suited to some of the guys on here with big power but perhaps not the lightest. And unlike a real tt where it's a balance of power vs aero, its purely down to how much horsepower someone can put out.
I reckon I could save everybody the pain of riding it and name the top 10 based purely on power outputs for last few races!
If we do do it, I think there are 2 versions, the 17.6 km and the 16km version. The 16km version is 10 miles, and my times on a zwift tt bike are uncannily close to my proper 10 mile tt time outdoors. Worth knowing if you ever fancy doing a proper tt and want to know how fast you'll go.
@slowpuncheur I have hit my highest HR that I am aware of on a ramp test which is also pretty short. I just feel like I left something on the table in the final minutes to really get the best. My performance last night was pretty underwhelming to be honest though.
I don't pay any attention to HR during a race to be honest. I would be quite happy to just record HR but not see it during the race or training session but Zwift doesn't let you do that. I figure my own bodies survival systems will kick in if I am pushing to hard - I never knew what my HR was doing whilst playing a game of rugby but just seems to be something else we obsess over as cyclists! We do seem to like our data!
@robbo1234biking I suppose everyone's physiology is different. I remember you saying you had ridden 11 days on the bounce. Lower HR might be an early sign of the need for a recovery day or two before you become 'overtrained'. You did a big block at the end of December. Even @weeksy is slowly becoming a convert to rest and recovery;)
Oh yeh I keep a careful eye on what I am doing. My resting HR starts to increase when I am starting to get too much training in but it was 46 last night so think that is fine. I did a really easy 30 mins today and then got 36 hours of rest before racing tomorrow night. My biggest issue at the moment is maintaining my level of fitness gained after the December block. I cant generate enough fatigue to the level of fitness so it is starting to taper off but I will just have to accept that it will drop a bit (was around 72 and is now on 69 and dropping).
Far from it.
Had fairly substantial surgery yesterday. So layoff enforced upon me.
Hope that all went well weeksy.
Heeling vibes to you @weeksy. Hope to see you back on virtual wheels before too long.
Hope that all went well weeksy.
I'm not dead. So off to a good start
I had one until recently and yes, over about 250w at lower cadence/low gears and they overheat. I bodger an old PC fan into the side of mine which helped but also seemed to give me wildly overestimated power (+20%). I guess just make sure it has some airflow.
Thanks, further investigation and tacx admit its an issue. Looks higher cadence is the 'fix'.
Looks like I 'need' a better trainer.
There's a few "not the norm" TT events tonight, starting in as soon as 1835 at La Reine, Bell Lap at 1850 and a short 9Km Queen's Highway at 1900.
https://zwiftpower.com/events.php and use the filter to select TTs, looks a bit more varied than the usual Tempus Fugit and Bologna for at least the next few days!
Feeling drained today after work, can't see myself even doing a pootle tonight.
https://zwiftinsider.com/zwift-patch-01132021/
Looks like a patch coming which might help some of the issues that people have had recently.
Dagnammit. Another FTP increase from this mornings TdZ climb. @robbo1234biking can you please update my FTP to 266w. Many thanks.
Just wish I could hold anything near that level on the flat rather than just on hills!
That's a whopping increase!
Ah that's good - it turns out having companion running on the bars at the same time as the steering plate is a bit, erm, odd!
Just did a bit of Zwifting, Repack ridge steering sensitivity can be adjusted at the start line.
It's now in the main settings menu rather than on screen, but the option only seems present when on the mtb. It also seems to stick once selected now rather than needing changing each attempt.
It's still a nightmare on the boardwalk and inconsistent, but that could be my internet/WiFi.
Did a couple of fox hill climbs with a fan pointing at the tacx without dropouts.
Also found I'm faster up the hill with trainer difficulty turned up rather than down, by a fair chunk. I just make more power with a proper amount of resistance.
Here are the handicaps for this weeks race. If your name is in yellow then I have registered a FTP change for you since the last race (either from this thread or through sending a PM).
I doubt my trainer will be back with me before Tuesday 😭.
Ive now moved into the unenviable position where I’m giving time to the likes of Savo, JR and Woodster. 😂Big points are maybe a thing of the past.
@robbo will it help me in the series handicap to put weight on or drop some off? 😀
Prob be best to put weight on - you have a 300w FTP now! 85% of the remaining races are flatish now - only one more big hill so high power and a higher weight is prob more beneficial! Time to eat some pies!
Just realised this weeks road race is on mountain bikes again, which seems a bit odd. I know this is a mountain bike place but is there any harm in doing a normal road race? The physics of riding an MTB on a road race are completely different (and not as much fun) on a MTB and they amplify differences in performance. On a normal road race we mere mortals can use the draft to stay wiith the fast guys a bit longer rather than getting dropped straight away and it becoming a time trial.
Everyone is obsessed with being in the front group but let's face it, most of us are getting dropped sooner or later so it doesn't REALLY matter if we hang on an extra minute or not! I found the dynamics pretty similar once we settled into groups of similar ability. Robbo can always tweak the algorithm for the handicaps if it's throwing things out. I think being on the MTBs is a great gimmick and obviously Zwift HQ like it so if it helps to make the series a bit more special then I'm all for it!
@dazh this series is all on the MTB. It is part of the tie in with STW towers and Zwift. This will hopefully expand things for the future. Having said that we do a lap of the jungle this week so there is some off road in any case.
Week after next is a fat tyre crit which is actually a thing in the US apparently (not sure I have seen anything here!)
most of us are getting dropped sooner or later so it doesn’t REALLY matter
True, but most of the fun on zwift races I find is trying to stay in whatever group that is just above your ability. Maybe it's just me but I find once I'm on my own the motivation disappears as it effectively becomes a time trial. Oh well, I suppose there are plenty road races in any case. So if we're stuck with MTBs how about a proper endurance race? Say an 8 hour race on a weekend? 😉
Ive now moved into the unenviable position where I’m giving time to the likes of Savo, JR and Woodster.
Thank goodness for small mercies.
Ive now moved into the unenviable position where I’m giving time to the likes of Savo, JR and Woodster. 😂Big points are maybe a thing of the past.
@robbo will it help me in the series handicap to put weight on or drop some off? 😀
If it helps you feel better kirky I did bologna on a mtb yesterday. The same power as you over the race, 2kg heavier, exactly 1 minute down. That bit of weight gain for a better handicap isn't as much of a leveler as you might think 😉
(even my cheat time of 17.58 at 5.5w/kg only saw me beat you by 90 seconds on the road and 3 with handicap!)
I was only jesting really, I wouldn’t other than a period of time where I hit the gym hard, try to purposefully gain weight.
Before we had our first daughter my weight had crept up other the years to 16.5 stone at just over 5ft9 I had become a lard arse. I got down to 11.5 stone over the next year but as it was an aggressive loss I was not a good shape physique wise so took a bit longer to address that.
I tend to get worried when my weight creeps back up, I used to be able to cut it back very easily but that now appears to be much harder. I do plan to lose a bit (3/4kg) by may June and hopefully enjoy the hills in the real world. Hopefully if I can achieve this I’ll sit around 3.9.
put weight on or drop some off?
That was my pre Christmas mince pie question. I did neither gain weight or power over Xmas but those who I normally finish close with on the actual event have improved in one or both of the categories. So now I have a reasonable handicap advantage in my favour (which I can't use as my trainer is elsewhere).
Race day! Who's feeling good today.
Terrible - partner is signed up to some online fitness program and keeps joshing me to have a go - I joined in with 'fitness pilates' last night and feel like instead of a bed, I spent last night packed into a wooden crate and dragged along a motorway!
I kmow im horrdly stiff and inflexible, but of course I'm stubborn, so time training is spent doing miles on the bike when what I really need to do, is exercise OFF the bloody bikes!
Today is better than yesterday at least but that's not a high bar at all. I very much over did it last week (or maybe I just under ate?). I can't say as, presently, I'm looking forward to this evening.
Race day! Who’s feeling good today.
Me! Shame I don't have my trainer back 🤣
I can't seem to get through a whole series without some drama, so apparently it's time for me to have trainer woes. I'll try to start, if I get to the top of that first climb I'll begin to believe I might finish. There's a reasonable chance this is the day I end up sat angrily on the floor watching you all ride off into the dust and teaching the neighbours new words though.
Had that last week in the TTT @savoyad. DOMS got the better of my legs and I got dropped in 3 minutes 🥺. Good thing this house is detached!
Me! Shame I don’t have my trainer back
☹️ That's annoying.
My PT session got moved to 3pm and is leg heavy. Feeling quite apprehensive about tonight. Really want to get back to the front of the GC.
@dangeourbrain think it's my turn this week, got off yesterday's workout ride with Robbo and Stumpy ok but then felt drained all day...no energy. Felt fine during the workout.
Crashed out at 9-30 last night and slept until 8am. Still feel a bit drained now but no cold symptoms or anything else
Still plan to hit the race tonight but it may be just as a participant...we will see how the start goes and how I feel as we go. I hope to make a race of it if I can.
Whats wrong with your trainer @savoyad?
No idea how I will feel tonight once it starts. Legs don't feel too bad but I need to get better at racing the last 20 minutes. Where do you go for a break on this course? It will split early with the climb up to the windmill so expect the groups to settle early.
No sprint points tonight - we don't go through any sprint sections or do any complete laps (unless I got it completely wrong!)
That's what I thought but want to check.👍
Attack from the undersea tunnel and keep the pressure on till the windmill I think.
Whats wrong with your trainer @savoyad?
It's my trainer that has the problem. No Bluetooth connection from it so it would not connect to the app. Seemed to work ok with ant+ and fec but I couldn't connect directly to my phone to perform any firmware updates.
@retrorick - both you and Savoyad have trainer problems by the looks of it!
can anyone give a brief course description as I don't know it, i must have ridden parts or all of it but can't remember. Not that I think it will make much difference, I seem to have a low level something or other so i'm ok up to about 85-90% of ftp but got nothing after that. Couldn't get past ftp on the tt climb last week, then the same again on the tdz hill stage felt fine about 0.7 -0.8 wkg under ftp but just couldn't put out any more and when i go for a steady ride outside my nose runs!! Ah well its all good fun
Ah yes, having re read the previous posts I see what has been said! 😅
@karnali It's going to be fast from the start, under the tunnels and up that first punchy climb which takes you to the reverse Epic KOM. It should settle down then into groups and past the windmills down into the jungle. This section will be faster than normal as everyone will be on the MTB's which roll faster round the jungle, but it's now a level playing field, so no advantage like normal with some on MTB's and some not.
The climb out of the jungle is usually quite telling, especially on the MTB's and then its a TT to the finish, around the volcano (but not up it!) and into the sprint finish into the watopia town.
It's going to be an all out effort with not many places for a breather as there are no real descents except for the one back from the windmills, take a breath there and then push to the finish. Drafting should help on this one, don't get caught in no man's land.
Should be reasonably well rested physically, had a nice easy 50km ride on Sunday and a very easy 30 minutes in Zwift yesterday, but didn't get to bed till 1am this morning due to work so am tired and probably not at the top of my game today.
Is the handicap done on w/kg or pure watts? Its worrying that I have the 2nd biggest handicap on a flattish course, when my FTP is only 280W... ;o(
@benman it is both. w/kg is king on the hills and watts king on the flat (plus weight if you want to include the downhill sections). You are going to have to make it count on the hills tonight I think and try and break free. The thing I cant predict is the draft so if you can sit with the high FTP folks and punch on the hills then you might make the time.
One thing that puts you at a disadvantage is that it doesn't know when the hills come in the race so if it were to end on a hill then you have a good chance of breaking free (like the last race of the last series or this series in fact) - this one will definitely be harder for you.
Flip side is that if you escape too early the heavier riders might haul you back in.
I'm streaming again tonight should be live on
I'm looking forward to the race - legs feel OK after yesterday's workout with OopNorth & Robbo, although not actually spun them yet!
I seem to remember that I find this course a bit of a challenge. I need to try & hang onto a group up the first climb at least, so I get a tow on the descent. It is much slower on your own & you just lose tons of time.
We'll see.
I got stuck all alone in the first race, got to avoid that this time round! Feeling pretty good today so hopefully I can still hold onto one of the faster groups by the time we get to the descent, if not I'll have to drop back to the next group if they're not too far behind (or if there is one!) to avoid doing another ITT to the finish.
I'm not challenging for points or podiums anyway so it's all good fun, the learning process and fitness gains is great anyway.
I too shall be there... hopefully I get away from work in time to have a good warmup..
18 miles is a long one!
Here's the stream!
DrP
How do you get that nice embed DrP?
Getting a bit sick of the Jungle 🙂
Ticked off the Mega on Friday night with a mate, and not Zwifted since so I should be well rested.
I got a significant FTP bump on the TT course, so my placing will doubtless drop this week.
It will be (as usual) working my arse off to stay with a group up the hills and using my extra weigh to rest a bit in the group on the downhill. Run in is flattish which should be interesting.
@robbo1234biking - the results page is still showing me with (I think) Paino's sprint points from week one. Whilst I'm happy to have them, you should probably give them back to whoever earned them 🙂 🙂
@jimdubleyou It is right on my spreadsheet so will sort it out tonight. I have automated the spreadsheet so hopefully it will avoid transfer errors in the future as long as I transfer the times out correctly. That can be a challenge depending on how hard I have raced!
Hopefully this error will be corrected later tonight!
@DrP probably a silly question, but with the stream, does it just mirror your screen? Or does it have some magical way of going through the pack and catching all the racing/excitement/action?
Firstly..I'm no expert... In fact I was JUST watching a YT vid on how to be a better streamer using Streamlabs (the software I use).
Esentially... as i understand it..
You need 2 'things'.
Streaming software - in my case Streamlabs..
Which needs..
Somewhere to broadcast to - youtube, twitch, FB etc
Nixie.. "How do you get that nice embed DrP?" This was jsut a picture that I uploaded to my YouTube studio, once i'd scheduled the stream via Streamlabs.. If you click on the video in your YT, you can add an image.
With regards to what's on the screen/stream... this is where getting 'good' at streamlabs comes in..
I have a few 'inputs'
-live video camera (currently a single cam that is my laptop camera, but i've just bought a better webcam. I might play about with multiple live camera views etc). I pop this in the lower corner.
-the 'screen capture' i.e Zwift. This is why you have to run Zwift windowed - it needs to be a windowed screen. I guess whatever you have in teh Zwift window, it shows.
You COULD be smart, and have a FEW versions of zwift running perhaps??? I.e a couple of Zwift windows, with different views?
-a Youtube counter 'widget'. I MUST know when I get 2 or 3 viewers...!!!
I'm toying with making the stream look prettier - with a 'theme' etc etc, and maybe a launching screen...
The more I play with it, the better I get..
DrP
@DrP yeah got an image but don't seem to be able to get the embed when I post the link here. Hmm.
FFS
I just post my youtube link...
Whatever youtube 'has in my video', that's what shows...
see here
DrP
What do you past into the site here though? I've been pasting the link but in both plain and fancy editor that does nothing.