[Closed] Sportive Speeds

The only person your racing is yourself if you want to prove how a good rider you are enter some real road races

No.. all that proves is how good you are at [b]riding road races[/b], i.e the tactics, the group riding etc etc. Riding a 100mile mountainous sportive in 4:30 is, to me, proof that you are a good rider.

I always get wound up by this argument, not because I care about wether they are considered races or not, but because there seems to be this underlying tone that sportives are in some way a lesser form of competing, because the fields are so open and you can, should you choose to, stop for food etc.

Like Druidh was alluding to, if you called them '100 mile mountain time trials' would all the 'proper' racers be so stuck up about them? 8)

Don't get wound up. Indeed there are many good sportive riders, that's no problem.

However they are lesser. To take an extreme example that could be sized down. The Tour De France, a sportive covering the exact same route would always be lesser. As would any sportive covering the same route as any race.

Regards the 100 mile mountain TT. Well a 100 mile TT on whatever route is a TT. A sportive covering the same route will always be a sportive with all a sportive entails i.e food stops people sitting on other peoples wheel, Mr and Mrs Bloggs out for the day with picnic stops.

Someone asked if anyone races and has experience of sportives. I'd say why not enter time trials if it's all about just you and no one else. If you think about it your trying to get good times why enetr events with hundreds of other folk getting in your way.

Quite simply if you and me rode together and you raced and I made it clear I wasn't racing, well it wouldn't be a race.

but because there seems to be this underlying tone that sportives are in some way a lesser form of competing,

they can be a proper way of competing if set up that way, the reality is that they aren't and so are "lesser".

I can "compete" in lots of ways, even on a ride to the paper shop. Just like a sportive I'll have less insurance, less marshalling,less first aid, the police won't register it as a race and there are foods stops and the people I pass may or may not be competing as well 😉

what it isn't is a "race"

seems to be this underlying tone that sportives are in some way a lesser form of competing, because the fields are so open and you can, should you choose to, stop for food etc

Not underlying for me, if you want to compete, road races are way harder, cos the field is way fitter.

I really don't see why folk get so het up about the view that they are quite different.

I really don't see why folk get so het up about the view that they are quite different.

NIMBYs do. There are always complaints to the press and police about "races" taking place without authority and these NIMBYs use discussions like this and Sportive websites where riders are seen talking about "racing" to press home the point.

"Racing" a Sportive is like beating a 6-year old at tennis. You may have "won" but equally you can bet that plenty of people will have been pottering round enjoying the view, keeping friends company, stopping at the feed stations for an hour.

That's not a race, that's you being a cock, shouting about winning and racing and it has the massively undesirable side effect of causing problems for event organisers, police and insurers. At the moment it's a very grey area and it's largely left to it's own devices. All it'll take is some idiot hurtling across a junction and taking out a granny crossing the road for the whole lot to be regulated, for everyone to require a licence and insurance (as in road racing), for there to be marshals and officials present and then the events will lose their mass market appeal.

Chill out, enjoy riding somewhere different and if you want to ride fast, do it safely and within the Highway Code and call it a training ride - that's all they are.

I have done a few sportives. I have never viewed them as a competitive event, and didn't realise other actually did. I might try a bit harder in the next one I do.

crazy-legs - Member
"Racing" a Sportive is like beating a 6-year old at tennis. You may have "won" but equally you can bet that plenty of people will have been pottering round enjoying the view, keeping friends company, stopping at the feed stations for an hour.

oldgit - Member
Quite simply if you and me rode together and you raced and I made it clear I wasn't racing, well it wouldn't be a race.

Worraloadofcobblers. The majority of runners in the London Marathon (choose your city as appropriate) are not in it to "win". That doesn't prevent the elite from also taking part and racing.

FFS, stop talking about the London Marathon, the comparisons between the London Marathon and sportives just dont work

We are taking bikes here and sportives, if you can't relate it to that then dont bother.......

druidh - Member
That doesn't prevent the elite from also taking part and racing.

It doesn't, but they don't actually take part, do they?

Any comparison with the London Maratrhon is a Big Hitting FAIL I'm afraid!

cynic-al - Member

> That doesn't prevent the elite from also taking part and racing.
It doesn't, but they don't actually take part, do they?

tragically1969 - Member

FFS, stop talking about the London Marathon, the comparisons between the London Marathon and sportives just dont work

We are taking bikes here and sportives, if you can't relate it to that then dont bother......

Yes but its a seperate race isn't it, they set them off before the punters, so again marathon comparison = fail.....

The definition of the word "race" has a discrete meaning when referring to bicycles?

Erm, yes generally, the rules and regulations of that RACE will generally be published by the governing body:

Road Cycling Race = British Cycling governed by the UCI
Marathon Race = UK Athletics governed by the IAAF

Different sport, different rules you see.

If I have a pet and it barks, I can call it a cat but it will still be a dog.

If I have a pet and it barks, I can call it a cat but it will still be a dog.

Believe what you want....

I've done a few sportives, some famous ones too. As far as I've seen it from the saddle there are some riders who will instinctively make it a race, either with themselves or mates or indeed me, then there are some who just amble along get in a group and chat.
Me, I like to kill my legs off and do the very best I can, if I spot a fast group I'll hang on until I fall over, but that's me. I'm like that. It's rare that I'll just amble along, I do that pre training/post training either in the warm up/warm down but put me in a sportive and I'll pass as many fellas and girlies as I can, I'll say Hi, then kick it.

Always been the same me.

Said as an ex semipro.

Sportive speeds, ride at whatever speed you like.

As for people treating them like a race, of course they do. I even won a few myself!

Said as an ex semipro.

The people who feel the need to qualify their opinions with how great a cyclist they think they are or were are the ones who have something lacking in their posting.

crazy legs is right, i've seen way too many 'racer' prats in sportives who won't even stop at junctions, or weave round cars at roundabouts like a hero. is 5-10 secs that important? seems to be - dunno why as it's not a race. but, put a load of blokes on bikes and there will be 'racers' in any sportive.
imo if you want to race, step up and start at cat whatever. if you want to do well in a sportive, judge your time against your own perception of the effort it took, not other entrants.

the time bands in the OP seem fair enough, anyway.

D'ya think qualifying any achievements you have to a post makes you look like you have something lacking??.. Well you need to qualify that.

Far from holding back any achievements, I like to talk from the saddle, say it how it is. Like it or not. You should be proud of what you've done, regardless of speed/ability, I most certainly am.

Worraloadofcobblers. The majority of runners in the London Marathon (choose your city as appropriate) are not in it to "win". That doesn't prevent the elite from also taking part and racing.

The marathon is set up as two distinct events (4 if you count Elite Men, Elite Women, Disabled and “the rest”). At the front is an Elite race. It is marketed, promoted and insured as being such. At the back is everything from serious club runners down to fat people in fancy dress doing it for a challenge or for charity. You can kind of liken a Sportive to that except that there is no Elite race at the front – it is not marketed or insured as a race. In amongst “the rest” will be serious club cyclists down to fat people in fancy dress, exactly the same analogy as “the rest” in a marathon. Some people want to post a fast time, some people just want to get round. Would you honestly claim in a marathon to have beaten a bloke dressed in a hippo costume while you’re there in shorts and vest?

No, you just get round it and the time is for info.

Same in a Sportive. Woohoo, I beat someone who’s not been on a bike in 10 years and is doing it for charity, aren’t I great. Not really “racing” that is it?

Anyway, you’re selectively quoting me. If you want to ride it fast that’s great, I’ve got no problem with that. What I DO have a problem with is then claiming that you “won” or riding like a muppet to get that time. Charging across a junction or jumping lights just to get your “top 10” place. That’s the idiocy. Not riding fast. The point still remains though that it’s not a race as you’re not competing in set groups or categories against your peers. Claiming that it is a race (as I said in my earlier post) just leads to problems further down the line when NIMBYs seize on it as a reason to get it stopped due to it being an unauthorised race.

Go try and get round the Fred Whitton faster than Rob Jebb next month and tell me it isn't a race.

If I wanted to race Rob Jebb (and I have, several times), I would go and enter a RACE. What Rob does in the Fred Whitton is of no interest to me at all. If I were riding the FW again (I'm not but I've done it before), then I'd ride it in the best time I could. It's irrelevant whether someone does it 2hrs quicker or 4 hrs slower than me.

I think that's a polite " [i]no thanks - I don't want my arse handed to me on a plate[/i]" right there.

druidh - Member

cynic-al - Member

> That doesn't prevent the elite from also taking part and racing.
It doesn't, but they don't actually take part, do they?

I was referring to Sportivs 🙄

Good Big-Hitter-annoyance points though!

finbar - Member

Go try and get round the Fred Whitton faster than Rob Jebb next month and tell me it isn't a race.

Of course that would be a race, doesn't make the entire event a race though.

stop upsetting all the people with mid life crisis thinking they are racing!

I have done a few sportives. I have never viewed them as a competitive event, and didn't realise other actually did. I might try a bit harder in the next one I do.

Its quite nice to enjoy some great routes in fabulous countryside, have a natter with other riders. If I thought people were racing against me I might even have done some training 😉

Surely the joy of a sportive is that you can "race" if you want or bimble round with your mates & have a chat if you want.

I won a commuter race today ,I was awesome. 😀

As someone yet to do a sportive but with 5 weeks or so to go until the first one Dickyboy seems to talk sense to me. Different folk seem to take different things from them, some race some participate.

And people are getting really worked up over for this for a supposed MTB forum. Get out and ride some singletrack, but be clear first if you are going to race it.

Hmm. Not read everything but having done some in the UK and in France where I now live: There is a huge difference between the two. In the UK people are on the whole confused: some see them as a race, some see them as an expensive audax. In France they are races if you enter the 'chrono', audaxes ish if you enter the 'rando'. Not the same as bunch 'road' races but still races with podiums and prizes for the 1st, 2nd 3rd scratch and in Cats.

IIRC about 2 years ago there was a sportive down south which was disowned from the sportive organisation as it presneted a classification of riders: 1st, 2nd , 3rd etc rather than individuals getting a silver meadal etc. I think it was deemed that their insurance was void.

Come to France to do a sportive, expect it to be hot, and get a reward if you win. Do one in UK: expect to see all sorts of confused people.

Just had a thought or two.
190 sportive riders paid up £25 quid each to ride on Sunday. Only 70 finished/turned up. That's £3000 worth of entry fees paid and not used because it was raining 😯

Also I now think I'm pretty awesome. Reckon I could have got top five overall as well as first 50+ finisher if I was actually trying. Mind you if it had got hot then I'd have been last.

what i want to know is, why all the bikes marketed as sportive bikes, are mostly upright relaxed geometry? Is it because they are aimed at the 'older' rider?

[i]mostly upright relaxed geometry[/i]

If you look at them, all the 'sportive' tag means is a headtube which is 1 or 2 cms longer. It's not exactly a radical departure from the norm.

oldgit - did you have a good, enjoyable day out?

oldgit - Member
Just had a thought or two.
190 sportive riders paid up £25 quid each to ride on Sunday. Only 70 finished/turned up. That's £3000 worth of entry fees paid and not used because it was raining

So back to the original question... If I do 50 miles in about 3 hours, will I die if I attempt 100 miles? What sort of time does it take normal people to ride 100 miles?

You won't die. Just take the first 50 a wee bit easier.

If you can get into a group cycling near your pace you'll manage 3-4 mph faster than you do solo.

100 mile ride is a pretty big jump if you are used to doing 50 mile runs.

If you can average 15mph for 50 miles then you might be ok, but its still a long time in the saddle and that might take its toll.

oldgit - did you have a good, enjoyable day out?

Well I never know if you're being sarky :-)but yes I did. Though I did think I might see more than three other riders all day, so not very sociable.
So considering an average Sunday 100km club ride is quicker yet more sociable and free I find myself despite what I said earlier, going back to my first views on sportives.

My idea of what a sportive should be like, is like the one I did the day before. Pace down, banter and new lanes.

I think it was maybe £50 entry that year, so somewhere in the region of £25-30,000 in un-used entry fees. At least it was for charity

**** the bed.

If you look at them, all the 'sportive' tag means is a headtube which is 1 or 2 cms longer. It's not exactly a radical departure from the norm.

Don't all Cervelos conform to this and they're hardly pootle machines

Also thought about Septembers London - Paris - London. I think 90 miles, 150 miles, 150 miles and 90 miles four days on the trot could turn nasty for some.

having done a few are sportives not akin to trail centres?

you can roll up in an area you dont know but want to ride, blindly follow signs for someone elses planned route, know there'll be some where to stop for the loo and hopefully be fed your lunch. i like to go as fast as i can as that's the point of road riding for me but it can't be a race as its not mass start.

interested in the french example and i think the grand fondos in the states are mass starts so i guess you could 'race' those but uk sportives are just inclusive, fun mass participation cycling events for different standards, which is a good thing. so back to the OP you'll be fine.

oldgit - Member
> oldgit - did you have a good, enjoyable day out?
Well I never know if you're being sarky :-)but yes I did. Though I did think I might see more than three other riders all day, so not very sociable.

I wasn't being sarky. It's just that so many of your recent posts seem to be filled with anquish about your riding, I'm glad that you actually had a nice day out.

The sociability thing is one of the reasons I've enjoyed Sportives in the past. It's nice just to hook-up/ride along with some complete stranger and chat for a while.