[Closed] Sportive Speeds

Depends how fast you are don't it? 17mph is fairly quick for that sort of route, but 14mph is pretty slow.

don't worry, it is not a race, if you want to do it do it. You will get all sorts of speeds. some will blast it, 17mph isn't that hard a target if your race fit, others will bimble and miss the bronze standard.

Sportives are not races, so you go as quick as you want you.

Exactly.

Remember with all that climbing you have to have mega downhills too, which of course lift the average speeds.

So most will probably suffer on the climbs but make it up going down 😉

If you have an idea of your usual speed over that distance and can get in with a decent group, you can easily add on 3-4 mph over the piece.

BTW - Sportives are really races but just not called that because of some legal jiggery-pokery and because it upsets the "clubbies".

Sportives = events where people pretend they're racing. Audaxes = events where people pretend they aren't racing.

No they ain't in any way whatsoever.

Yeah normally I'm quicker than that, but it ain't a race is it. Know what I mean.

In the Etape if your average speed is too slow you're in danger of being swept up by the broom wagon. Oh the shame of it. Have a flat or two, lose some time, then the pressure's on.

Sportives / Races - all the same.

It doesn't matter if your at the fast end or the slow end. They seem fairly normal though. For the Northern Rock Cyclone (now Virgin Money Cyclone) you needed an average of 18.5mph over 107miles with 2300m to get a gold time. Not many did (about 20 IIRC) and to do it you would probably have to be working in a group.

They set the fast targets to challenge people who are "racing fit".

Sportives aren't races since they are not mass starts and the tactics go out the window because of this. They are more like mass time trials.

To say that people aren't competing is naive. Plenty of people are there to set a fast time and will want to be faster than others. What you don't have is attacks, breaks and sprints as in a race.

jonba - Member
Sportives aren't races since they are not mass starts

Sportives tend to form fast moving groups on the flats which then break apart on each hill - you'll rider much faster than being alone. At the front they are full on races and at the back they're just social rides - the spread of ability will be from top Elite to pretty much novice.

I remember on the Etape du Dales, seeing people push up the 1st hill (only another 3500m climbing to go)...

Sportives are races,but only in a delusional sense.

jonba - Member
Sportives aren't [b]road[/b] races since they are not mass starts

Corrected.

I agree with you in that people treat them as races (including myself*) however from a purist road race point of view they are not as there are some very fundamental differences.

*If I wanted to just go on a long ride I wouldn't pay to do a sportive. I like bunch riding so mix it up with club rides and also some racing. It's rare at my low level I will get to do 100+ mile races typical of the courses you find on sportives. They tend to be shorter and circuit based.

jonba - Member
Sportives aren't [b]road[/b] races since they are not mass starts

Would you call the bleep test a race?

Sportives aren't races.

I agree with you in that people treat them as races (including myself*) however from a purist road race point of view they are not as there are some very fundamental differences.

They're not races because everyone will have different goals. You may want to do the course in sub 4hrs. Someone else may be delighted if they get sub 6hrs. Saying that you beat that person is therefore pretty pointless.

17 mph is a fairly easily achievable target if you're used to doing club rides. What happens on the day may of course be dependant on weather and if you get with a decent group.

Would you call [s]the bleep test[/s] knackered brakes a [s]race[/s] fair deal?

Give it a go, sportives are great, I've never done a road race but I've been at the sharp end of a few sportives. you can't call it a race cos all the proper roadies get their knickers in a twist if you do!

Sportives are races. Participants race against each other and the one with the quickest time is the winner. That some people know they will not "win" and set themselves an interim target or personal goal is irrelevant. It's just like "road racers" competing against folk in the same Category (read: "level of mediocrity") as themselves.

Good god where are you getting this from?
People are not racing against each other, there is no intent.
There is no winner, you have recorded times.
You abide or should by the Highway code i.e stop for lights.
A race is a race. A sportive is what it says a sportive.

That said I have witnessed the muppetry some folk do. Some one passed me puffing and panting and almost threw his arms in the air to celebrate the victory before stopping to squeeze his tyres. I suppose these are the sportive racers you talk of.
On the other hand I've seen guys really do the work and get around in amazing times, though I'm pretty certain they won't chalk it up a race win 😐

Most are RACING for a good time.
This time will vary from rider to rider ( depending which time they have set themselves as a target).
The trick is to know your limits and get in with a group that suits you.
Bit like road running,don't go chasing outside your ability or you can end up having a nightmare.
Just did a reliability run today.Now they are never ,ever a race, are they? 🙂

Give it a go ,but don't go after any daft brakes (if Realmans involved).

oldgit - do you ignore the Highway Code when you are racing?

Is a Time Trial not a race? That has recorded times.

As this thread shows, there [i]is[/i] intent.

Most are RIDING for a good time.

It's very very simple. If an event is NOT a race it's not a race.
Some people like to do the London - Brighton as quick as they can!
We like to do our 100km training rides as quick as possible!
When I want to race I simply sign up for a race.
If I want to ride a sportive I'll ride a sportive and I'll ride that sportive as quickly as I can, we usually work out a time and ride two up.
And anyway you naughty lot you mustn't race on the Queens Highways.

oldgit - do you ignore the Highway Code when you are racing?

I don't have to, it's either sanctioned as a race or closed road/circuit

Is a Time Trial not a race? That has recorded times.

Tricky one! Set up to get around the no racing on the highways. Hence the codes and (originally) all black kit. Technically not racing. It does blur the line. Though I'd argue that at a time trial everyone DOES have the same goal. And that the level of control over the proceedings does lend itself to being what we all know to be a race.

Racing the clock
Racing the broom wagon

It seems fair to say it's a race.

What you don't have is attacks, breaks and sprints as in a race.

Ah, that must be where I'm going wrong then - shouldn't have gone for it when I dropped my last companion on a climb near the end, or sprinted for the line (for ~20th place) on a sportive which finished on a track.

You can call it a race if you want, you can ride it however you want, you can drop the old lady on the hybrid with basket attached, you can sprint off or stop for food or even finish over the TDF finishing line, but what you'll find is that you've entered a sportive. If you 'win' the event by being the fastest you would still have won a sportive and not a race.

I don't know if I'm being wound up here, but even the organizers of sportives make it very clear that these things aren't races.

They aren't races obviously, but loads of riders treat them as such. And great fun it is to. So lay of all you "proper" racers.

What you don't have is attacks, breaks and sprints as in a race.
Ah, that must be where I'm going wrong then - shouldn't have gone for it when I dropped my last companion on a climb near the end, or sprinted for the line (for ~20th place) on a sportive which finished on a track.

yeah but there was a guy who started an hour after you but was faster and came in 19th...

It's all gone a bit plane on a conveyor belt as far as I'm concerned. I agree that people (again, I will include myself in this) are racing for a fast time but it isn't a road race in the same way it is not a downhill race [i]it is a sportive[/i].

But Sportives ARE races.

From dictionary.com

[b]race[/b]
noun
1. a contest of speed, as in running, riding, driving, or sailing.

From oxforddictionaries.com

noun
1 a competition between runners, horses, vehicles, etc. to see which is the fastest in covering a set course:

Do a few rides and see what your ave speed is?

[quote=oldgit]

Is a Time Trial not a race? That has recorded times.

Tricky one! Set up to get around the no racing on the highways. Hence the codes and (originally) all black kit. Technically not racing. It does blur the line. Though I'd argue that at a time trial everyone DOES have the same goal. And that the level of control over the proceedings does lend itself to being what we all know to be a race.

No, time trials are technically races under the Cycle Racing on Highways Regulations. Similarly, road races can be held on open roads, but are rarely given permission. Sportives are promoted as not being races at all.

Pdw, what are you talking about ? But are Rarely given permission ?

Been on the British Cycling website recently have we and actually looked ? Road races are happening pretty much every weekend all over the country in the season.

I agree about sportives though, its just that people like to think they are racing, it cant be a race unless everybody else starting sees it that way, which they dont, therefore sportives are not cycling races, they are sportives, thats why they are called sportives, not road races.

As for time trials the clue is in the name, its a race against the clock, or a 'trial'

it cant be a race unless everybody else starting sees it that way, which they dont, therefore sportives are not cycling races, they are sportives, thats why they are called sportives, not road races.

So because some duffers at the back are pootling around, that totally invalidates any competition at the front of the field? For sure it's an unofficial race in the same way the sprint for the town sign in a training ride is unofficial. However what exactly is it you're racing for in the sprint to the line in an official 3/4 race? Why is that so much more significant than the competition to be fastest between people of a similar (or even better) standard on a far more demanding course than you find in any road race below elite level? I make no apology that my objective when riding a sportive is to get to the finish quicker than other people rather than to beat some arbitrary time.

I'm curious - out of those commenting, who has competed in official road races, and/or ridden sportives up towards the sharp end?

it cant be a race unless everybody else starting sees it that way,

I always thought the term 'sportive' was a hybrid word in French for something like'
For the sporting aspect of riding'
The only person your racing is yourself if you want to prove how a good rider you are enter some real road races
It's a bit like the old fun class at mtb races yes they were races but you'd never let on if you won one as it didn't count in real life

That definition would rule out the London Marathon.

Where the hell did that come from, why twist things around so they fit, we were talking about 'BIKE' racing, not running or any other sport for that matter.

We all know that when you line up for a road race with a number on your back in a field of 60 that when you set off you are racing, you all set off together the route is controlled, there are people making sure you take the correct route and adhere to competition rules, then after the alloted distance the first man across the line wins, simple.

Somebody asked about being at the 'sharp end' of a sportive, tell me how do you even begin achieve that when there can be a 2 hour window or an alloted time for starting, when there are check points to stop at and where you could (and believe me, people do) shortcut ?

Let's have a look what British Cyling have to say about the matter....:

[url= http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/sportives/article/20100105-Get-Into-Cycling---Road---Sportive-0 ]Sportive[/url]

[url= http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/road/article/roadstatic_About-Road-Racing ]Road Racing[/url]

We are all entitled to our own opinions, i know what racing means to me and it isn't a sportive.

Old Chestnuts anyone?

Well I did a sportive again this Sunday, and my views might have changed a little.
Firstly I did it unofficially, keeping an old friend company.
Secondly the weather was dreadful and only 70 of the 190 paid up riders finished or entered?
So pace was good, it was all quite tidy with the exception of heavy braking on bends.
On the first hill riders went past me like **** off a shovel, and halfway up it got messy with those riders desperately trying to change gear. I went past slowly, got to the top and slapped it into 53 and put my head down. That was almost ten miles gone. I never saw another single rider until the halfway mark, and two more club riders at 60 miles.
I did think I could get into this.

When I finished there were just a few bikes to be seen. Then I noticed (and no offence to the large gents) this huge guy. I couldn't believe that this fella had got round so quick. But after a short chat it became clear when he said something like ' I thought this was about 62 miles I've only done 54)
That's when I remembered this post.
If I had officially entered I'd have come 7th or rather put in the 7th fastest time and would have been the first 50+ rider.
Clearly this guy hadn't cheated, he'd just got something wrong but it shows how open to abuse a sportive could be.
Then when I think about the amount of folk you hear about cheating Strava it makes you realize these events could never ever be considered a true race.
I must confess the pre ride chat I could over hear made me want to go out for some fresh air, people and a lot of people were referring to it as a race.
Still it was better than any I've done before. Getting better or just better riders out?

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Sportives are really races but just not called that because of some legal jiggery-pokery

I thought it was to avoid police involvement (a BC race was moved by the police due to a sportive in the same area same day which the police couldn't force to move)

They also don't provide the same level of safety

The risk assessments are different

it also reduces your insurance costs

be on or off road a sportive or "challenge" ride is just that a ride. It's no more than an overpriced audax/ over energetic chaingang.

Firstly I did it unofficially, keeping an old friend company.

the best way to do them, this should be encouraged that way you don't get disappointed by the food provided by the organiser for those paying 😉