[Closed] Royal mail have binned my rear shock!

It's been enough for me to email my entire buying team and our key trade partners to request that no samples are sent forwards & backwards with RM from now on, and that we should use Parcel2Go's standard service, which is usually UPS. Not a huge amount in RM terms, probably 200-300 parcels a month, but at an average of £8 a time, a decent hit to their revenue line. Hopefully more companies will do the same too.

The ebay sellers really are not at fault. They are purchasing stock from a company which deems it to of breached their policy.

Not outwith the realms of possibilty that the ebay sellers have an inside man looking out for prime stock to confiscate

The ebay sellers really are not at fault. They are purchasing stock from a company which deems it to of breached their policy.

Providing this is what they are doing, then yes, this is correct.

There's something a little distasteful about RM profiting from goods they deem "dangerous" - if it's too dangerous for their staff to carry, surely it is too dangerous to sell on to the general public?

If his got through and yours didn't then they have acted incorrectly with yours. It's proof that they are not dangerous items.

It's not though is it - just that some get checked and some don't. Bit of a strawman there.

If you post a load of ming vases and one doesn't get smashed that doesn't mean that none will. Or... you post a load of sulphuric acid in phials, if one doesn't break that doesn't mean it's not hazardous.

Is it wrong that I'm really tempted to look at the RM auction next month, particularly as I'm not far from the auction house to pop over and get bits!

surely your case against RM is helped by people like the guy on the previous page who has just sent his "shocks" by RM and the package got through.

Bit like saying your mate was speeding yesterday and got away with it, therefore you should too, officer...

Now you know why RM's advert says "we love parcels" its because they get your money for a service they don't give and then make more money selling your goods on! see how the shares are rising? should please a few STW's that bought them.

andyrm - Member

Providing this is what they are doing, then yes, this is correct.

There's something a little distasteful about RM profiting from goods they deem "dangerous" - if it's too dangerous for their staff to carry, surely it is too dangerous to sell on to the general public?

I agree, profiting from such items which are included in their loose T&C's for that type of item is simple wrong.

"we love parcels"

[img] [/img]

It's not wrong; it's theft.

RM has a duty of care to protect its employees from harm by banning and safely disposing of hazardous materials. That's fair enough.

However, those items never become RMs property, so they can't sell them on. They certainly aren't the Ebayer's property to sell.

If I was the OP I'd be tempted to report it to the police.

should please a few STW's that bought them.

I'm still for the Anne Robinson treatment. RM might not admit anything, but my well cough up a few quid in an exceptional case.

So, here's my plan.

I will stick up a "terms & conditions" notice on my front door. It specifically says "Postmen and their goods are prohibited, and will be confiscated if found on my property.

When Postie comes tomorrow, i shall point at said notice, take his post bag off him and send him on his way. I shall then sell contents on ebay.

Sounds fair to me.......... 😉

A guy I worked with had a flat mate who was a postie who was sacked for stealing the mail.

Apparently caught because his car was visibly littered with many opened and un opened letters he should have delivered.

The Royal Mail brought no charges against him, just sacked him.
I too think the fact I have to buy insurance from them against them losing, breaking or stealing my stuff is plain extortion. If they had to cover losses a lot less stuff would get lost, Broken or stolen.

I thought that interrupting the mail was a criminal offence? Surely that would be able to be applied in this ^^^ and the OP's case?

As for escalating this, I would get on the phone to R4's Your and Yours. They seem keen to take on any sort of consumer champinionioning.

champinionioning.

Wow!! 😆

[i]Wow!![/i]

champinionioning - a difficult word to stop spelling 🙂

[img] [/img]

Just had a call from a gentleman from the Chief Exec's office.... been told that the shock has been disposed of. He doesn't know where it is!

I pointed out that he must have records which method of disposal was selected. He confirmed that they would and that he'd find out and get back to me. He told me that it didn't look good and that since the new regulations came into force earlier in the year that this type of situation have caused a lot of problems.

so how do I escalate this?

Sternly worded letter to RM 🙄
Letter to MP
Contact Police
Citizens advice
Trading standards
National news papers
Magazines
Social media
Rogue traders
Watchdog
???

RicB - Member

It's not wrong; it's theft.

RM has a duty of care to protect its employees from harm by banning and safely disposing of hazardous materials. That's fair enough.

However, those items never become RMs property, so they can't sell them on. They certainly aren't the Ebayer's property to sell.

If I was the OP I'd be tempted to report it to the police.

Totally agreed. "You've sent something that's too dangerous to deliver. Our only option is to [s]destroy it securely[/s] sell it for profit." WTF, frankly.

so how do I escalate this?

Sternly worded letter to RM
Letter to MP
Contact Police
Citizens advice
Trading standards
National news papers
Magazines
Social media
Rogue traders
Watchdog
???

All of the above!

Maybe see if the major mags can pick up the story and start the social media off for you, someone (Dave?) from STW has already commented I think.

It's bonkers that RM can do this.

I've been in contact with Dave@STW hopefully this may help apply some additional pressure.

I hope it does hit RM hard, that over time people wont risk anything other than a book or box of tissues. Must admit that recently I sold a few bits on ebay and the cost of postage was just crazy compared to the last time i sold stuff. I lost a bit of money on that lot. I have used parcels2go in the past and been very happy, so i wager that i will just carry on with them. Collection from my place of work also included in a sensible price.

Slighlty OT- I'd be interested to know why the entity that was allowed to buy the most shares (6%)- who they are. Apparently its an offshore company. I think every other company was allowed 3% max?

Sternly worded letter to RM
Letter to MP
Contact Police
Citizens advice
Trading standards
National news papers
Magazines
Social media
Rogue traders
Watchdog
???

All of the above.

Happy to get this one tweeting for you and do some targeted tweets to warn companies not to use RM.

Why not let RM know that you appreciate their assistance so far, but as pointed out previously, they need to prove you did not state contents when posting and believe their T&C of what constitutes a potentially dangerous item are unreasonable. If they cannot locate the item or how they disposed of it, you will report to police as theft.

Subtly mention you don't want to have to start a social media frenzy...

Will be a big can of worms and a PITA for them if they need to start investigating all similar claims....

When ever I buy anything off the web I have to tick a box stating I have read all ther t&cs before letting me proceed.

Surely if they are confiscating goods to sell for profit they should be making people sign something saying they understand all terms and conditions at point of posting.

As the way things are the system is wide open for abuse.

Slighlty OT- I'd be interested to know why the entity that was allowed to buy the most shares (6%)- who they are. Apparently its an offshore company. I think every other company was allowed 3% max?

It was Fox, so they could intercept all their products being sent and re-sell them for profit.

Now to watch to see the buggers try to sell it on. Judging by some of the stuff on those ebay accounts, I'd be surprised if they didn't.

I'd agree with the earlier posts that selling other people's property on without their explicit consent should rank as theft, but they will of course claim that by handing over at the post office, you accepted their spurious t&cs which effectively give them carte blanche to do what they will with your 'dangerous' goods.

Would be nice to see that tested under criminal or civil law, but I imagine the coppers wouldn't be keen to spend their time on that particular grey area.

At least you have someone at head office you can now discuss directly with, as opposed to the nameless and faceless pit of despair that is the usual complaints process.

I gave up on RM for anything valuable after they lost a £30 bike bit. I hadn't insured it because their counter person told me that standard post was covered up to (iirc) £50. So i went with a signed for delivery but no special insurance. So when they lost it, i claimed for my £30 'loss' only to be told that they wouldn't pay it because they had no proof that the contents were worth £30. Even though i emailed them links to the FS thread on here, etc. They reimbursed the cost of the postage, and to rub it in, did it in stamps so in effect no cost to them because the only way i could use them was to send something else!!

Why would the police care? they're just following their Ts & Cs

(Not that I agree with them but I can't see why it could be considered theft or fraud)

I think shouting from the rooftops on social media is the answer but you have to give the chap from head office a chance to do something....he has, after all, got on touch twice

In my experience with RM, requests for records usually result in shrugged shoulders about why they can't find them.

Anyway, makes me think if I was to risk RM for posting a shock, I'd make a note of any serial numbers on it first. Match that on an ebay item and you've definitely got a case of theft. Though RM will of course argue you breached their terms by sending a prohibited item and their terms you could never have read say they can auction the item if they want.

This situation is nuts. Really think I'll stop using them to send anything at all now. That they've gone private I hope means we get competition including for the final mile and for the Post Office.

Why would the police care? they're just following their Ts & Cs

Just because they have T&C doesn't necessarily mean they are 1) enforceable or or 2) legal.

Social media shit storm then legal action. Or threats of legal action then the other two things.

(Not that I agree with them but I can't see why it could be considered theft or fraud)

To paraphrase an example earlier: if you stick a note to your front door saying "if you knock on my door I'm entitled to mug you and take your car", then go through with that, it doesn't stop it being a police matter.

Whether terms and conditions are legally enforceable isn't a police matter...That's for the courts to decide

Just to clarify, i'm not going to kick off straight away. I'll be waiting until I hear back tomorrow before doing anything else. Even then, i'll write to RM first and give them a deadline to respond, 7 days or something.

Escalating things too early can sometimes cause more hassle. You'd be surprised what being polite, respectful but clearly stating your case can achieve.

I'll not bother with the police, can't see that going anywhere.

If the dubious terms and conditions appear to involve the committing of a criminal offence, it is a police matter, theoretically. I tend to agree that in practical terms, no action is likely to result from reporting it as a crime (although the act of reporting it may offer some leverage...and also may make it easier for news organisations to follow it up as a story.)

Well said, OP

It's funny. I was getting my deck built by a bloke that was recommended to me by the local timber yard. One morning the postie saw him and asked if that was (insert name) and I said yeah it was. Postie told me that this fella did time inside for stealing mail. He seemed ok but it proves that it goes on.

In my experience with RM, requests for records usually result in shrugged shoulders about why they can't find them.

This situation is nuts. Really think I'll stop using them to send anything at all now. That they've gone private I hope means we get competition including for the final mile and for the Post Office.

^^This. Hopefully privatisation will result in forced competition and with that forced modernisation so that the "don't care" and "do the bare minimum" culture is brought to a halt.

So now if the Royalmails intentions are honourable and genuine measures to protect their staff and not a means to a cash cow.
And they have decided shocks and alike are to be targeted for those reasons should they not be targeting CRC and the likes of.

Or do they have an HHHHRrrrmmm unwritten agreement that they will not be bothered or have to comply with said rules .

Or have we already established that Different t&cs apply to them .

I could be wrong but didn't rm forum link site that different rules apply to Joe Public?

Send a recorded letter (preferably using an alternative delivery company for comedic irony) stating they have 10 working days from receipt of the letter to resolve the issue to your satisfaction

Tell them what you will accept.

Explain your next course of action if the matter isn't solved. Which would, in my opinion, be warning friends and other people via social media about the risks of using RM, and sorting out a court date at your local county court.

I find the court threat works best if done in a rueful manner; 'I really hope you can sort this problem out for me because I hate taking companies to court'. Works for me every time, especially if you've already enquired with the court and quote document titles etc.

Edit - spelling

shouldn't you be able to find out disposal routes / revenues etc through the freedom of information act?

that would be interesting.

Pitchforks at the ready, op.

Totally agreed. "You've sent something that's too dangerous to deliver. Our only option is to destroy it securely sell it for profit." WTF, frankly.

Nutshell.

Privatisation closed the door on FOI requests to RM.