GCN+ is £39.99 pa, Discovery+ is £59.99 to get the sports coverage.!
Absolutely no interest in watching other sports so it’ll be a no from myself
Out of curiosity, why would DH never be an Olympic event?
£40 for 8 DH races, 8 XCO races, 8 XCC. Thats £1.67 a race. or 83p if you consider the mens and womens to be separate events.
More importantly can you pay by the month?
Discovery+ has a monthly plan of £7.99 pm, GCN+ is £6.99 pm
Somafunk, it's not just sports it quality television programmes such as
Jack Osborne night of terror - bigfoot
Friends Jack Osbourne and Jason Mewes have questioned the existence of Bigfoot for years. Now, Jack and Jason venture deep into the woods of northern Idaho to find out for themselves if this infamous creature is real or simply an age-old legend run wild.
Surely that must be worth the fee on it's own?
Out of curiosity, why would DH never be an Olympic event?
Happy to be corrected but I believe that the Olympics has a minimum requirement in terms of number of countries able to put up competitors in both men's and women's events. With a lot of Olympic sports someone can enter from a country with no representation just by gaining enough qualifying points in the event. I think that DH is already far short of that requirement and the safety implications of opening it up to novices from countries with no DH scene means that the UCI aren't going to try.
The idea of an Eddie the Eagle or Cool Runnings scenario isn't likely given the very high likelihood of someone getting themselves killed live on global television.!
At the time the sport’s biggest star Terje Haakonsen boycotted the Olympics over it
Terje also started the TTR world tour as a rival series to the FIS, for a long time that totally eclipsed the FIS series for pro snowboarding (I don't follow snowboarding as much these days so not sure how it's organised now) and I'd say a LOT of people (riders included) would like something similar to happen in mountain biking
why would DH never be an Olympic event
It is incredibly boring to watch...actually, all off-road stuff is incredibly boring to watch as there is very little rider fighting rider type stuff - as much asI hate to admit it, the TdF is more entertaining to watch as the riders race to the various stage points where they can gain points for various jerseys and there tends to be a good battle for the final line each day - that doesn't happen that often in MTB and Enduro and DH is even poorer for it as the riders all set off individually. I can't think of anything worse than watching someone else riding their bike (aware that is a personal preference).
Unless you have all riders mass starting together, it'll be even duller to watch as an 'olympic' sport for the people who enjoy watching the Olympics. CX and the new Short Course MTB stuff seem to fair better as there is a lot more battling between riders to get away, they still aren't great (which I'm sure isn't helped by camera angles and whatnot).
The riders are incredibly skilled and that allows amazing speeds, but turning that into something to watch is very difficult.
UCI has been the governing body of MTB long before the sniff of Olympics came around...pretty sure it was largely due to the 'local' governing bodies (BC in the UK) around the world all wanting to be the controller of MTB 'stuff', and as those governing bodies are all affiliated/part of UCI, then UCI are the big daddy. Although there was a lot more going on in the early days and many competing 'governing' bodies trying to get top place, but ultimately, the UCI-affiliated groups won the day.
As for the comments about starting an alternative race series - look at the issues with the golfing world when another group created their own competition - loads and loads of money for it, but the governing body soon moved in and blocked many of the golfers who were competing in the alternative contest - I can see UCI doing that as well.
Out of curiosity, why would DH never be an Olympic event?
I know the newly added surfing does sink this argument a bit...
but how many places in the world have the geography to be capable of having a 4 minute WC track, let a lone actually have a suitable track already. How many of those are even vaguely near to a city with an interest in hosting the entire thing?
Plus adding another equipment/cost heavy sport that is dominated by the English and French (notable mentions to USA, and Australia) probably goes against the ethos a little.
Terje also started the TTR world tour as a rival series to the FIS, for a long time that totally eclipsed the FIS series for pro snowboarding (I don’t follow snowboarding as much these days so not sure how it’s organised now) and I’d say a LOT of people (riders included) would like something similar to happen in mountain biking
That's very true but as you say, even you don't know where it stands now compared to the FIS. MTB has had lots of stand alone side events (urban DH, Hardline) but i bet the winners of those would trade them in for a world cup win. Riders voicing that they'd love less UCI involvement is very different to the companies that pay them allowing it. Can't see Specialized giving up all their road endorsements for the sake of Bruni and Iles. Would be an extreme example of misuse of power (then again it is the UCI) but could be possible to withdraw UCI road bike reg' compliance for companies that didn't play ball.
The riders are incredibly skilled and that allows amazing speeds, but turning that into something to watch is very difficult.
Then we all need to ditch DH and get behind 4X..
Or push for a hybrid? How about 4 up DH races on technical but wider 2 minute courses with multiple lines and jumps?
It is incredibly boring to watch…actually, all off-road stuff is incredibly boring to watch
Not watched any WCDH recently then?
In no way is WC DH boring to watch, I dont know why the average Singletrack reader is so sniffy and dismissive of it and seem to be way more interested in TDF, politics, what new watch to buy or what to invest in (yawn).
I'll give you XC being boring though and Endro to an extent.
By contrast, Crankworx Austria. Anyone watch the DH this year. I dont think its a much less challenging track compared to WC. Some of the top names were there. Notably Vali Holl and Finn Iles, 2 of the wildest ones to watch in WC races... and I was bored.
Was it the commentary, was it the lack of well placed cameras? I dont know.
DickBarton
why would DH never be an Olympic eventIt is incredibly boring to watch…actually, all off-road stuff is incredibly boring to watch as there is very little rider fighting rider type stuff – as much asI hate to admit it, the TdF is more entertaining to watch as the riders race to the various stage points where they can gain points for various jerseys and there tends to be a good battle for the final line each day – that doesn’t happen that often in MTB and Enduro and DH is even poorer for it as the riders all set off individually.
Boring to watch? have you seen WC DH? Far from boring. TDF is ****ing tedious by comparison.
the riders all set off individually. Surely it's just like the winter Olympic DH skiing? The format is almost identical.
To be fair, mtbers are ****ing terrible judges of whether or not DH is boring
The good thing about 4X would be that it hardly needs any hill. In fact, you could take away the hill altogether and just use a start ramp and a load of leg power . . .
It is incredibly boring to watch…actually, all off-road stuff is incredibly boring to watch as there is very little rider fighting rider type stuff
As opposed to laps of a velodrome, or a 5hr grand tour stage with a few sprints along the way? DH without Warner will be like F1 without Murray Walker, the same riders on the same tracks, it won't be as good to watch but as a mountain biker I'd choose to watch DH over any other discipline every time
Most sports are pretty dull if you have no interest in them.
Yeah, have tried to watch more MTB racing over the last few months - DH and various XC stuff - it was all very dull, hence my comment. It just doesn't seem to capture the excitement, but for DH, it is unlikely to do so unless you are watching it all and really wanting the rider to beat the time, otherwise it is 1 rider on the track and it is 'just' the clock they are racing against.
This doesn't make interesting TV and is why not many folk watch it (outside those already in to mountain biking and have an interest in watching it). 4X is exciting, like a BMX race juiced up, but I've not managed to find much of that (but haven't actively been looking) - and I've absolutely no interest in being able to do big jumps on a bike, so that stuff doesn't get a look in at all (but aware that is likely to be just me).
This is part of the problem...for those who are died-in-the-wool participants in the sport, it is either brilliant or dull when 'their' sport is on TV. I've no issues with people watching it if they enjoy doing so, but to the average person who isn't interested in the sport and stumbles across it on the TV, they aren't going to last long watching it.
I'm aware it is most likely to be me - I'm a doer rather than a watcher - if I've time to sit and watch someone racing their bike, I keep thinking I've got time to go ride my own (which I'm aware sounds properly cheesy, but this is my sport/thing and I much prefer doing it myself than watching someone else doing their take on the sport).
And all of that doesn't really make any odds as I don't pay for any tv subscriptions, so I'm not the intended audience for any of it.
to the average person who isn’t interested in the sport and stumbles across it on the TV, they aren’t going to last long watching it.
I'd have to agree with this, which is exactly why the UCI should have left it as separate TV rights deals for different disciplines instead of handing the whole lot to a single broadcaster
– if I’ve time to sit and watch someone racing their bike, I keep thinking I’ve got time to go ride my own
I usually watch the replay on Redbull TV after I've been out riding, which is another plus point of their coverage, the option to watch the whole thing at a time of your choice will be a miss if Discovery don't continue to offer it and another reason not to subscribe for a lot of people
Yeah, I've have the opportunity to watch both downhill skiing and DH bike racing, and the speed that both of these sport are like IRL and how they're portrayed on the screen is wildly different.
Will become another sport I used to watch.
There is a competing series sponsored by IXS maybe that will get a boost.
Re earlier comments, my main thought is same around why is it the organising of the sport has been sold off, not just the broadcast rights. And surely even then the UCI ought to maintain control over sporting arrangements and integrity etc. impression given this is all now Discovery pulling the strings.
I can’t think of any other parallel. Even F1 for all the money brokers, its still FIA distinct from F1 who try and govern.
Surely UCI set the rules even if someone else organises and broadcast. Sky or BT don’t buy premier league rights and then say ok it’s 60mins, no offside and in event of a draw it’s then topless penalties.
A question I haven’t seen asked or answered. Does this mean that under Red Bull they were both organiser and broadcaster, or just the latter? Ie who decided on current DH arrangements, uci or red bull?
Seems a shambles. For all I like EWS the coverage isn’t great. It’s passable as a freebie on YouTube but no way I’d pay unless the quality steps up in a big way. Doesn’t bode well for DH.
Then we all need to ditch DH and get behind 4X..
Except for the small issue in that 4x doesnt have a recognised governing body. They cut their ties with UCI years ago. Good interview with Scott Beaumont about that in Cranked a couple of issues ago.
For all those claiming that UCI would ban riders competing in another series, how did that go down back in the days of the Maxxis Cup? (I may be misremembering the scope of that series but it was not UCI sanctioned IIRC)
Maxxis Cup never really tried to compete with World Cups, they let any punter in (must’ve been 20 years ago too? Thing are far more commercial now) and it was just a small European series (similar to IXS Cup)
RB were the broadcaster. The events are all organised locally and have to comply with various uci rules and contractual conditions to hold the event with World Cup status
As to the change of broadcaster in indifferent. Yes I like listening to Warner getting overly excited but I guess he has chosen to stay with rb and I wish him well doing that.
The simple version is that rb got outbid as they can only spend so much to get the roi from selling more drinks as a result of the people watching the event those getting freebies from the rb pit girls at the events and their professional influencers doing the social media thing.
I am concerned that no one seems to have a clue what’s happening next season yet as I imagine the logistics for event organisers takes some planning and lead times to get everything in place.
As to how we will be able to watch I think that is quite complicated. Discovery will clearly want to get the roi they expect from their investment. That means they will need to come up with a compelling programme to encourage viewers. If they choose to put it behind a paywall then that programme has to be even more compelling if they want to keep the likes of us prepared to pay for it. Equally if the programme doesn’t reach the target markets of team sponsors then will they still want to spend their marketing budget on racing if enough people don’t see it? Racing is all about sales at the end of the day. Discovery are going to have to find a balance of a good show that has enough viewers to keep the team sponsors happy whilst giving them the roi they want from buying the rights
watching the DH WC is far from boring. the speed the riders carry through corners and the ability to traverse rough sections by appearing to levitate amazes me.
no doubt rob warner’s enthusiasm lifts the excitement, especially when there is a time to be looked at, but i find it strange that a mountain biker would prefer to watch the olympics (unless it was a cycling event, obvs) or sit through 2 weeks of TdF coverage. i enjoy the TdF, but it is only “exciting” at select moments in the race.
anyway, it will be interesting to see what discovery do. though i won’t actually see what they do as i won’t be subscribing to find out.
Ahhh that's really sad news that Rob won't be commentating. Having watched other Red Bull sport productions most of the U.S commentators are beyond bland - take Rampage for instance, it's embarrassingly bad. I feel DH will go the same way as Wheeler Dealers...
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LAT
Full Memberwatching the DH WC is far from boring. the speed the riders carry through corners and the ability to traverse rough sections by appearing to levitate amazes me.
To us, absolutely. To the lay man though? In their eyes someone rides a bike down a hill, but the rider is so good they actually make it look kinda easy (especially as said lay man doesn’t really have a perspective on the skills involved). 3mins later someone else does exactly the same, and a wee thing on the screen says he’s a bit faster or slower. Repeat this 60 times. If you’re lucky there’ll be an exciting looking crash.
£40 for 8 DH races, 8 XCO races, 8 XCC. Thats £1.67 a race. or 83p if you consider the mens and womens to be separate events.
More importantly can you pay by the month?
So essentially more expensive for those not interested in XC, XCO nor road racing.
Personally, I DGAF about xc, XCO nor road racing. Despite the skills, they don't represent the kind of riding I'm interested in. For the same reason I don't watch xc skiing, F1, horse jumping, etc.
I fear that the uci will sell itself out to the detriment of the sport.
@mashr yeah but tennis and golf are absolute mind numbing bollocks and yet still manage to make the Olympics. As does speed walking. SPEED WALKING FOR CHRISTS SAKE!
Are you seriously suggesting that DH is more boring than any of those?
There's no real barrier other than geology which doesn't seem to stop other geologically restricted events.
The 2032 Olympic XC event is set to be at my local tracks (god knows what they're going to do to the place to make it worthy, but it'll be controversial).
I think the closest realistic location that could host a DH race would be 1000 miles north in Cairns, or about 800 miles south in Stromlo. Not inconceivable I suppose.
To us, absolutely. To the lay man though?
i absolutely agree, but what layman watched any sport? by which i mean, if i watch basketball or skiing, it’s of no interest and i find it dull. the same is true of many other sports. i was responding someone who is a mountain biker (in the way that i imagine being a mountain biker) saying earlier in the thread that watching WC DH dull. horses for courses, etc.
the olympics are only interesting to people who aren’t interested in the sports because you can get behind your national team and because it’s the olympics.
most spors that you aren’t interested in are dull to watch.
edit, i’m not advocating for DH to be in the olympics. god forbid.
I’ve enjoyed watching mtb downhill over lockdown because it was free and something to kill a few hours.
Rob certainly made it more interesting than it otherwise would be
My observations
Qualifying is a waste of time
It’s the least pro, pro sport (from an athletic perspective)
The results are incredibly inconsistent
Why only 6 rounds
An Elite sport should have feader leagues that take you from grass routes to pro ie an amateur shouldn’t be turning up to a pro race
You shouldn’t be able to turn up to a pro race because you fancy it (Rachel Atherton) see above
It does appear to be a bit of an amateur sport in a pro world, which in some ways keeps with the cool dude culture of the sport, but depends what the ‘pro’ arm of the sport wants to be
I’ve enjoyed watching it the last 3 years, certainly will not be paying to watch it
They would be better having World Cup XC races, maybe call it the ‘Overbiked series’ on long travel MTB’s where it’s a mixture of riding easy trails that show how awesome the bikes are, with points awarded for how awesome each riders beared is. That and an ebike series.
That will satisfy the marketing folk at least
Are you seriously suggesting that DH is more boring than any of those?
No, comparably boring.
Don't get me wrong, I love it, I race it, I'm all in.
But you have to have an interest and understanding or you get Funkydunc's post.
That's what it looks like to the uninitiated, like most sports. The other aspect is the athletes aren't part of popular culture, so they're unknowns to gen pop, you don't have to have an Intrest in track to know who Sir Mo is.
So many parallels between this thread of the convo and the kids or not thread.
I’ve enjoyed watching mtb downhill over lockdown because it was free and something to kill a few hours.
Rob certainly made it more interesting than it otherwise would be
My observations
Qualifying is a waste of time
It’s the least pro, pro sport (from an athletic perspective)
The results are incredibly inconsistent
Why only 6 rounds
An Elite sport should have feader leagues that take you from grass routes to pro ie an amateur shouldn’t be turning up to a pro race
You shouldn’t be able to turn up to a pro race because you fancy it (Rachel Atherton) see above
It does appear to be a bit of an amateur sport in a pro world, which in some ways keeps with the cool dude culture of the sport, but depends what the ‘pro’ arm of the sport wants to be
I’ve enjoyed watching it the last 3 years, certainly will not be paying to watch it
I think the fact that non-pro riders can turn up and make a fist of it as a brilliant aspect of the riding... They still won't get past Qually, but hey, they can jump on the hill ride down next to pro riders and have an absolute blast. The difference is that the 'pro' riders do the same in the opposite direction.
Last time at Rheola my lad was on the uplift with Charlie Hatton and other pro riders, this wasn't even for a national (although the national were 2 weeks later at same track, hence why they went i guess), but i think it's brilliant that youngesters and average Joe can be there riding the same trails at the same time, even if it's not in the race. The accessibility of the sport in that context is what really makes it exceptional.
I'm not sure why Qualifying is a waste of time, shall we just call it free practice ? The faster guys go down last, they're the ones RB want to see and the fans want to see, so makes sense to have them going off togethr in a bunch, otherwise the coverage time needs to be doubled as the winner could be 2nd out of the gate and we all miss it ?
Of course they have feeder leagues, think MIJ/Woodland, then Gravity events, then to nationals/Pearce and then to full on national, then finally to worlds... they have the classes and the courses and the riders are in relation to the series they're in... but the great thing is, you can ride up or down a level too (well, IMO not your of course).
Riders soon learn if they're up to it and i've seen plenty of people at 'harder' levels than they can race going home before race 1 as they know they're out of their depth. But it's still a great experience if you ask me.
Obviously i look at all of this from a slightly different persepctive to some as i'm pretty involved in trying to get a rider from the lower end to the upper end, so i want him to experience the things i've written above, but i can see why that's different to the viewer at home.
I'll pay for the DH racing... but that's not a massive shock.
It’s the least pro, pro sport (from an athletic perspective)
One last thing... this bit... Are you saying the riders are not athletes ? Not trained ?
Weeksy - what I said was slightly tongue in cheek, but a lot of that is based on what the general population think
Qualifying - if it’s there just to determine a starting order then you could use the results from the last race?
I can’t think of any other sport where qualifying is there to penalise your start position in the race ie going last in theory means that the course has deteriorated by the time you get to it.
At the last race it was known the track would get worse the more riders road it. So if they were being savvy you would have qualified down the field to get an early start
Rachel Atherton shouldn’t have been able to just turn up and have a go, sends out completely the wrong message. Which comes back to where should she have gone back to to earn the points to get back in to a World Cup race
All of what I am saying is slightly tongue in cheek but the sport is quite amateurish when it’s competing against some very slick professionals run sports
If mtb DH wants to get that international standing it has to be professional. I guess surfing is the equivalent, that went pro, some riders hated it and gave up competition, but for a sport to be successful internationally it does have to conform to expectations of normality. Hence why the likes of speed walking makes it to the olympics and not DH mtb
Are you saying the riders are not athletes ? Not trained ?
This is an interesting one. Some certainly are but others appear not. And perhaps again the way the sport portrays itself.
If you watch vlogs from the likes of Brendan Fairclough, Bernard Kerr it’s all about having a laugh, and riding DH tracks, no technical or physical training (again all about how the sport portrays itself) Plus some of them certainly don’t have the physique of an athlete.
Some are complete machines though, Gee Atherton for example who quite clear takes the physical aspect very seriously
As I say all that I am saying is slightly tongue in cheek, but trying to give that insight from people who don’t like MTB’s or even people who are keen on others sports
Qualifying – if it’s there just to determine a starting order then you could use the results from the last race?
Points are awarded for qualifying, these were put in place to intentionally stop riders attempting to piss around with start positions.
squirrelking
Free Member@mashr yeah but tennis and golf are absolute mind numbing bollocks and yet still manage to make the Olympics. As does speed walking. SPEED WALKING FOR CHRISTS SAKE!
tennis - 2 players fighting to the death, easy for someone like me with no interest in tennis to get
golf - traditional sport with huge following (which has been up and down, but still huge compared to DH)
speed walking - the weirdo's have to have something to watch
As said a couple of times before though, fans of a particular sport are ****ing terrible judges of how exciting that is to a wider audience
Points are awarded for qualifying, these were put in place to intentionally stop riders attempting to piss around with start positions.
Ah that makes sense, can’t say I’ve seen that explained since I’ve been watching it
At the last race it was known the track would get worse the more riders road it. So if they were being savvy you would have qualified down the field to get an early start
But somehow, the guys who qualify in the fastest 5 often end at the pointy end... It's rare it's won by someone who qualified outside the top 10...
I'm not arguing thouhg mate and keep your answers tongue in cheek, as you know, i do it on other threads...
I love a DH discussion, as i love all MTB discussions.... so the more the merrier... i may not agree with everything you say about it.... but it's all valid opinions 🙂
Rachel Atherton shouldn’t have been able to just turn up and have a go, sends out completely the wrong message. Which comes back to where should she have gone back to to earn the points to get back in to a World Cup race
Tricky one as she's a bit 'different' to an average Joe turning up and it could be argued she had every right as she was on maternity leave... or even injured, so she'd not quit as such, was just out of action. Plenty of people in sports come back in after injury retaining their position from pre-injury in terms of being allowed into big events... however i'll conceed, hers was quite a long time out.
She did bloody well though for someone who wasn't taking it 100% 😀
speed walking – the weirdo’s have to have something to watch
For those who have no interest or knowledge - replace speed walking with almost any other sport and that statement still stands up.
Rachel Atherton shouldn’t have been able to just turn up and have a go, sends out completely the wrong message.
For me the message was that of a the most successful athlete in her field (by quite some margin) picking back up after she had some Mat leave. To me that sends a powerful message to all women, that here's a sport that won't just either chuck you on the heap because you've had a baby, or penalise you by taking away your start place - because you've had a baby
What message d'you think it sent?
What message d’you think it sent?
She had an injury and hadnt raced at elite level since
For those who have no interest or knowledge – replace speed walking with almost any other sport and that statement still stands up.
This. My best mate is fully mental about F1, to.me it's cars driving around in misshapen circles and dull as hell.
But I appreciate and respect his passion as I have similar for DH & Enduro (although that coverage is dull)
She had an injury and hadnt raced at elite level since
You haven't thought this through have you.
