If you put out efforts like that Healeyfield up all the climbs, your average speed would rise significantly.
Hi NobOdy, thanks for looking at this. That climb is a set of brutal 20% hairpins and the only way up is to do it at max heart rate or get off and walk. Theoretically I could tackle every climb in the same way but I fear I might die. But yes, getting fitter and more powerful would be a help.
Thanks for identifying my max power output, not very impressive is it?😀
For a hilly ride, that sounds about right solo. Similar speeds for me yesterday and set PB's up some North Wales hills, and was doing 14.6 average. Today's ride, flatter, but average will be 17 mph.
Unless you've got autostop on (I dont) I'm not so sure strava will recognise traffic light stops.
Weight does not make you go faster downhill it’s aerodynamics.
It does.
The Galileo experiment showed that a heavy weight and a heavy weight dropped off a building fall at the same speed. This is because whilst the heavy weight experiences more force downwards, it takes more force to accelerate it so it cancels out.
Two riders going down a hill are in a different situation. At first yes, they will experience the same acceleration as per Galileo, but very quickly aerodynamics become the limiting factor: your speed is being limited by air resistance. The heavy rider will probably be a bit less aero because they're probably bigger, but they would have much more force due to gravity, more than enough to counter the increase in aerodynamics drag. So the ratio of weight to drag is what determines how fast you go.
Having done many downhill no pedal races against a lighter opponent I can confirm this experimentally.
Unless you’ve got autostop on (I dont) I’m not so sure strava will recognise traffic light stops.
Yes, I have auto stop on, I dread to think what my figures would be without. I am a bit of a stop & go rider anyway, looking at maps, taking photos, peeing in hedges etc and I suspect getting up to speed after every stop must eat into averages. Must ride more smoothly…
I think one area to look at for some free gains is behaviour at junctions. Slowing and accelerating constantly can have a big impact on speed if you have quite a few junctions, especially if your coasting early and then pull away slowly. Either anticipate gaps to avoid slowing, or brake late, and power off hard. I’ve hit averages on close course rides that I could never achieve on a normal ride.
What you need to do is look at the ride and break it down into sections - uphill, downhill, flat (broadly) and see where you can improve.
Now the first thing I notice is the very first section (about 2.6 miles) - nice straight bit of road, only 2 turns, -164ft elevation - but you're only averaging 16.8mph. That just ain't gonna cut it if you want to be doing 16mph+ for the whole ride. Not least because psychologically you're already behind before you've even started.
Same thing applies from the top of the first climb to the low point - 3.7 miles downhill but only averaging 16.7mph. Doesn't matter how fast you go up the hills if you're only doing 16mph on the flats/downhills then you are not gonna get your average up.
Unless you’ve got autostop on (I dont) I’m not so sure strava will recognise traffic light stops.
Yes, I have auto stop on, I dread to think what my figures would be without.
Strava uses moving time to calculate its average speed doesn't it? So auto stop is irrelevant.
I had some thoughts about average speed. If I ride up a hill at 10mph and down the same hill at 20, you might think your average speed would be 15mph. But it isn’t. If the hill is 10 miles long it takes 1 hour to ride up and 30 minutes to ride down. That makes the average 20 miles over 90 mins, which makes it 0.222 miles per minute = 13.33 mph. Or have I got that wrong?
This - as a heavy rider I have to go considerably faster on the downhills to compensate for how crap I am at going up, and to go faster downhill is riskier and in general (CdA arguments nws) that also means putting effort in which adds to fatigue overall.
I'm close on 100kg currently (sobs, used to be mid 80's) and on a flat ride like today's I can easily manage close on 17mph (about 27kph) average, but on a hillier ride (100m per 10km is my cutover, I know that's only about half what was mentioned up there) if I average 15mph/24kph I'm happy. Of course depends also on distance and wind, and these are solo or rides I lead, if I'm in a group you can add 2-3kph relatively easily.
On the flat I can cruise at 30kph relatively comfortably, with effort about 35kph for periods but those extra 5kph gets exponentially harder.
I’ve hit averages on close course rides that I could never achieve on a normal ride.
On my commute in Germany, after doing it for a while and getting to maybe the best form of my life I could hold 40 or even 42kph for most of it, which was pan flat. There were some junctions at the start and one small hill at the end. My best average speed was one day with all green lights, no traffic, and the average was only 33.6kph.
@jamz Thanks for the insight, very helpful.
Same thing applies from the top of the first climb to the low point – 3.7 miles downhill but only averaging 16.7mph.
Yes, part of the problem is that this is all through a built-up area with plenty of side junctions and other hazards that make flat-out riding unwise. But you are spot on, it must impact my average.
As for the opening stretch, I will try and get into my stride quicker!
I’m a similar age to you, probably 10kg lighter and live in a similarly hilly area.
14.5 isn’t especially slow around here for a middle aged solo non racer. I think your point about having little flat road to ride is true and I also think as someone noted above, width of road and road surface has a massive effect. I rode lots on narrow poorly surfaced lanes.
My own experience points to the bike having an effect. When I was fitter I could average 16.5 mph on a road ride on my “nice bike” - I could switch to my steel bike with semi Slick gravel Tyres and only average 15 on the same route with similar conditions and within a week of the first ride.
To average much over 17 around here is proper hard unless you are a full on roadie - Alex Dowsett spent a week training here a few years ago and was only averaging 18.5!
14.5 isn’t especially slow around here for a middle aged solo non racer.
Agree, the 3 key points middle aged, solo and non-racer.
All you can do is train in a way to be race fast as you can't do much about middle age and riding in a group is a different thing all together.
I am not very fast and haven't been for 20 years but I am happy with my riding and don't plan on any sort of training and have never done any.
Just use metric. 22 sounds much better than 14.
Just out of interest, why does it matter?
Are you out enjoying yourself on your bike? Will you enjoy yourself more if you travel 2mph quicker?
I’m not a roadie, I have no real idea what my average speeds anywhere are and measure my rides by enjoyment, but do find threads like this interesting sometimes. (I do also measure my rides with Strava, but only to keep a record of what I’ve been up to).
If you’re not competing / training and out enjoying yourself, just carry on 🙂
Just out of interest, why does it matter?
It doesn’t, it was a matter of curiosity. As per the original post, it was the disparity between my reasonably respectable times on uphill/downhill segments and my Sunday pootle-like overall speed that set me a-wondering. I don’t compete, love my riding, keeping myself fit stands between me and an inherited brand of early-onset dementia. I suppose if it matters at all, it’s the idea of being able to go further in a given time. I’m slightly Audax-curious.
You'll be quick enough for an Audax, don't worry
Funny that Audaxing has been brought up 😄 I rode a AAARrTY (AAA ~ Audax altitude award meaning 150m/10km climbing) to completion and my average speeds over the varied routes through the year was between 14-16mph, I’m a pretty fit 3rd cat rider. I would say you are just fretting over the stats for no end reason. Just enjoy pacing up the climbs and concentrate on then enjoying the descents.
Well, I carried out a little experiment today, riding in south Northumberland which is less mountainous than where I am - a mere 3,840ft elevation over 59 miles.
I took it fairly steady as it was warm and my legs weren't feeing all that great. The return 30 miles seemed hard into a headwind but I actually picked up a couple of minor PB's in spite of that.
Average speed - 15.4mph.
https://www.strava.com/activities/7451268804
So reducing the amount of climbing by about one third added 1mph to my average speed.
The less hills the higher the average speed goes until you then face aerodynamics above gravity
^ yes, wind is a massive factor.
Yes, part of the problem is that this is all through a built-up area with plenty of side junctions and other hazards that make flat-out riding unwise. But you are spot on, it must impact my average.
As for the opening stretch, I will try and get into my stride quicker!
If that bit is slow because of infrastructure then maybe use it as a warm up and start your ride proper when you are out of town? I know on my commutes my average is hampered by the start and finish sections because of junctions, traffic, etc. The bit in the middle is my true speed as it's just me and the bike. It's still not impressive though ha ha.
