I read somewhere ages ago you are supposed to eat high protein and fat? This helps your body 'learn' to eat the fat content on your body?
Fasted morning rides for most of us wanting to burn more fat. Ketosis diets for the committed, something I'd not read about until recently, seems a bit extreme to me.
1hr plus in the morning on empty (or black coffee only, helps fat burning also) at a steady pace with a few short hill efforts works well, it takes a while but eventually your endurance will be a lot better as you won't go from carbs to fat energy use with the 'crash' that regular gel-quaffers often do. Worked for me - used to be a real sugar-crasher rider. The body starts to use fat as energy after 1-2hrs I think so getting to that point with less in the tank encourages you to start the fat burn sooner and more naturally.
My experience:
Ride first thing in the morning on an empty stomach for about an hour and then don't eat at all for a couple of hours a couple of times a week
When riding for longer when you'll need to take food (and think if you'll actually need to, are you really going to be out for that long), avoid simple sugars (like energy drinks and bars) and eat actual food (like sandwiches).
Post ride - just eat normal food. at the normal time. Unless you're training hard and have been riding on the rivet, you don't need anything special (protein shakes and all that nonsense), just have your tea/dinner.
The sports nutrition 'industry' has made us all think too hard about these things.
I was trying the whole "low carb" thing last year and it definitely made a difference to my stamina 2-3 hours into any exercise. I did have to train my body not to go into slowdown mode when my stomach felt a little empty though, so I think it's also a mental thing.
for about an hour and then don't eat at all for a couple of hours
Is that to get the most of the 'calorie burn' after a ride? What pace are you riding at in that hour? Do you find you're wanting to eat more than you would if you ate a small amount after the ride ie normal cereal breakfast?
Ta
[i]Is that to get the most of the 'calorie burn' after a ride?[/i]
Honestly, dunno the mechanics, but seemed to work to shift some tub.
[i]What pace are you riding at in that hour?[/i]
Steady to slightly trying
[i]Do you find you're wanting to eat more than you would if you ate a small amount after the ride ie normal cereal breakfast?[/i]
Nope. I have a coffee after the ride and then nothing until lunch. I'm hungry by lunchtime, but not ravenous.
15mile morning commute followed by a coffee or two for me, then eat at lunchtime.
The evidence for it working is contested and on balance the advice is normal protein, normal fat and high carbs to fuel you to do even more exercise=get faster.
But if you must the best fat burning rides are looooooong moderate intensity rides without fueling. Too fast and your body needs carbs and eats its own muscles to get them.
My body has no trouble[i]eating[/i] fat.
It's burning it off afterwards that I struggle with.
last month's Cyclist mag has an article on it. The summary isn't far off what jameso said. 1 hour morning steady rides on just a coffee, once or twice a week.
Otherwise, just ride long and steady.
Similar to above, I put on a few kilos early last year and wanted to burn them off so just hopped out of bed and did 2hr stints at high to med pace having drunk coffee only, then lunch at about 1130-1230 when my tum had settled down.
It's been a regime I've used over the years to good effect.
Oh, don't eat Gel nor "Power" Bars during your morning stint, let your tum settle into working on it's own.
You'll be supprosed at how easy this becomes and effective too, something you'll be able to carry on for years to come.
Oh, don't eat Gel nor "Power" Bars during your morning stint, let your tum settle into working on it's own.
I dont touch gel or power bars. For years I'd get the shakes an realised when out on the mountain bike I'd stuff myself with Jellybabies etc.
Interms of 'tum'- you mean the hunger etc?
I'll start getting up silly o'clock twice a week during the working week 😀
If you are referring to proper high protein / fat diet with diminished carb intake then its more challenging to get the food you need. There are a few real sports nutritionists operation out of Loughbrough that have produced some great papers on training low and racing high.
Personally if i am riding 3+ hrs at endurance pace I will not eat but will have a mix of coconut milk and water with himalayan sea salt. I know others that add flavouring too but I find the coconut milk super tasty.
I take some carb with me incase I feel like I need it but in all honesty I normally never touch it.
I will add I changed to this way of eating to make my body more economical for the racing I do and not too lose weight. I float around 5% all year.
There are pro's and cons to training empty - its a very old school train of thought and most professional athletes no longer do it. Lots of reading about this if you look on-line.
double espresso and an early morning ride - don't beast yourself, just a normal ride (like a commute). then don't eat til lunch.
There are pro's and cons to training empty - its a very old school train of thought and most professional athletes no longer do it.
I'd guess that's because once you're a more efficient, fit rider there's no longer any need to do it. It's fairly ineffective training, it's not hard riding that gets you fit and it's not good 'recovery' as it lowers your energy reserves. I only do it during periods where I may have a few kg to lose and I'm not building fitness for a particular ride. Good winter or early-season habit.
I don't think of it as training empty, just tapping into the reserves and keeping a good endurance efficiency going. The body adapts well but settles into old habits or a normal balance otherwise?
key thing is dont go out too hard, you'll bonk quick and not recover,
steady steady pace until you get used to it.
[i] For years I'd get the shakes an realised when out on the mountain bike I'd stuff myself with Jellybabies etc. [/i]
Substitute the jellybabies for sandwiches, sausage rolls, scotch eggs, sushi...
I read coconut milk is a bad idea, well at least regular consumption of reasonable amounts due to the amount of magnesium (I think..)
Buy yourself 'Portables' I'm busy reading it now, loads of good snack ideas for riding that aren't gels or bars.
Personally I don't think you have to get too scientific with this, keep in your best fat burning zone (z2) for longer rides. If you ride at this pace you should be able to go all day without the need to eat anything outside your normal pattern. Carry one emergency gel in case you bonk. Take pride if you can get it to go out of date...
For whatever reason I need to eat loads in the mornings, 3 egg omelette, ride, then a packet of oatcakes and black coffee is my normal routine. Length of ride depends on how quickly I get up - normally 30mins up to 2hrs. Most of my main rides are after work 5-8 which I don't eat anything other than a fruit bar and maybe an energy drink if I'm riding tempo or hill climbing. Save the gels for the races or big days out when you are struggling rather than rely on them for everyday rides.
Oh and at least once a week do a short HIIT session. You could do this at lunch time. You'll see weight fall off.
Simple exercise more, eat less = loose weight (someone had to say it)
How does not eating until lunchtime impact on peoples concentration efforts at work?
I'm quite sure I wouldn't be able to look at forecast figures and post on singletrack without as much as a Pain au chocolate to help me digest the 'WTF loam' threads.
[i]How does not eating until lunchtime impact on peoples concentration efforts at work?
[/i]
It's no lower than normal 🙂
IME: I did a couple of years of early morning commutes (12 - 16miles) on coffee / empty tum and then had a 'late' breakfast of porridge. Did I loose more weight than the tried and tested routes of lowering my 'normal' food intake? I honestly can't say. I certainly had consistent weight lose but I was also careful of what I ate at normal meal times.
Did my cycling stamina improve? Again, I'm struggling to really justify this approach against proper training regimes. I did the WHW whilst doing the above and it was certainly wasn't a breeze. In fairness, i struggled time wise to get many 'long' training rides in, 75% of my training was very much concentrated on 1 - 3 hr stints.
I read [url= http://www.bicycling.com/training-nutrition/nutrition-weight-loss/eat-light-your-bike ]this interesting article[/url] and it seems to suggest the majority of us cyclist 'overeat' when on the bike. I can vouch for that. On one of my few long (8hrs) WHW training rides I stopped and ate half a soreen loaf in one sitting...I very nearly puked within an hour and the rest of ride was a HUGE struggle as my tum stopped accepting anything...including plain water. I later discovered that whilst soreen loaf is a great thing to eat it's stuffed with carbs and my tum probably just gave up trying to digest anything. I was a total mess by the end...Mrs Rossco wasn't amused!
I'm now 'training' for a 10ish hour ride on the Great Glen Way and I've decided to follow the British cycling recommendations re eating / drinking 60-70g of carbs every hour at a steady cycling pace. I'm out maybe 3 times a week doing 2 shortish slots at a medium to high pace (2.5hr), and 1 long stint at a medium pace. I try to 'up' my time on the bike by 1 hour each week. A good handful of wine gums / nuts / fig rolls / small chunks of snickers works in the main for me. So far so good....If I start getting peckish, 1/2 a peanut / jam sandwich and a few gulps of milk hit the spot every time.
Just go out and ride and don't think too much about it!
Try reading The Paleo Diet for Athletes by Joe Friel. Lots of good advice on this.
20 mile ride on coffee before work.
protein butty when I arrive.
protein lunch.
15 mile ride home.....eat what I like in the evening.
There are pro's and cons to training empty - its a very old school train of thought and most professional athletes no longer do it.
^^^ this is true, when I used to race roadies "back in the day" it was an early season adoption to loose winter fat, been doing ever since (as per my comment above)
I'll add: Most hunger I feel realtes to thirst, I know you can't substitute food for water but if I feel myself getting hungry I just drink more water until mid/late morning - 1130-1230. This I've been doing for years and I'm well used to the sensations, I'd not recommend this to all unless you're happy to experiment at least three times a week and don't let yourself dip into the "bonk" once in it takes a proper couple of hours to get out of it and if it happens at work you're stuffed and will end up eating the desk and 11 sausage sarnies.
IHN - Member
How does not eating until lunchtime impact on peoples concentration efforts at work?
Ok, see above for the "bonk" symptoms, but I feel more awake and eager to get on with stuff rather than bloated and sluggish, maybe the caffine thats doing it but I can't not have coffee.
If this is your first venture into this type of training I'd say go easy, feel your body adapt to change and if you feel groggy or about to keel over then eat something healthy and drink more water..
I'm looking forward to hearing from the the New Improved Hora, faster, leaner, whippet like... 😀
a mix of coconut milk and water with himalayan sea salt.
😆
My experience aligns with Jameso's posts.
I believe steady rides without breakfast helped me shift some weight last year, I did and do carry a gel or two though in case the ride turns out quicker than expected.
I do a fasted ride 5 days a week lasting about 40-70 mins and eat a healthy breakfast (porridge with sliced banana)and I have found that is working pretty well, having managed to loose 30lbs so far (lots more to go)
I am going to give not eating until lunch twice a week to go and see how that helps.
There is a lot of rubbish being thrown around in this thread, and fitness circles in general.
The Law of Thermodynamics dictates that you must burn more than you input in order to loose wait - simple.
There is no such thing as "burning fat before carbs". Your body works on a first in, last out way. IE: Your carbs you ate for breakfast are going to get burnt before the fat you've stored over 20 years of your life does.
Here is a great resource for the science behind fitness that breaks it down into a simple to read way - great for a lunchtime read:
[url= http://simplesciencefitness.com/ ]http://simplesciencefitness.com/[/url]
The only diet that will help you is a healthy diet.
EDIT: the link posted is aimed more at body building but is incredibly applicable to all aspects of fitness and health.
The Law of Thermodynamics dictates that you must burn more than you input in order to loose wait - simple.
I'm afraid you ruined any chance of scientific credibility right there :-/
plython, what are your credentials????????????
I trust idave and solo......... 😀
TYour body works on a first in, last out way. IE: Your carbs you ate for breakfast are going to get burnt before the fat you've stored over 20 years of your life does.
What a load of tosh!
When I was a lad just after the safety bike was introduced, the hot tip was much as jameso says.
Coffee, then ride a loop that has you on the edge of bonk. Then breakfast on 2 or 3 poached eggs.
I've done it and the weight drops off with no other change to eating habits, plus noticing a definite increase in endurance and strength on climbs. (Lost 10kg over 3 months)
This sentence blows you out the water:
The Law of Thermodynamics dictates that you must burn more than you input in order to [b]loose wait[/b] - simple.
Quite a basic intro to the train low, compete high theory:
http://www.scienceinsport.ie/default.asp?cat=349
As said, not race pace intensity.
hmmm
i thought that what is used first depends on the intensity,
muscle energy and glycogen reserves are used at different times to compensate for the fact your body cannot process food quick enough
so therefore its more a combination of intensity + energy stores than just simplistic first in first out
•The first law, also known as Law of Conservation of Energy, states that energy can not be created or destroyed; it can only be redistributed or changed from one form to another.
•The second law of thermodynamics says that the entropy of any isolated system not in thermal equilibrium almost always increases.
•The third law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of a system approaches a constant value as the temperature approaches zero.
Presumably Plyphon was referring to the first law of Thermodynamics in that energy cannot be created nor destroyed but only converted into other forms of energy. I sort of understand what he meant, although the wait/weight gaff is unforgivable 🙂
•The first law, also known as Law of Conservation of Energy, states that energy can not be created or destroyed; it can only be redistributed or changed from one form to another.
•The second law of thermodynamics says that the entropy of any isolated system not in thermal equilibrium almost always increases.
•The third law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of a system approaches a constant value as the temperature approaches zero.
Presumably Plyphon was referring to the first law of Thermodynamics in that energy cannot be created nor destroyed but only converted into other forms of energy. I sort of understand what he meant, although the wait/weight gaff is unforgivable 🙂
And what is Himalayan sea salt? There isn't a sea near the Himalaya's. Its at Maldon!
Glyphon, if
then my bowels have been working wrongly all my life.Your body works on a first in, last out way
I shudder to think how your guts work if you think the above is true.
There is no such thing as "burning fat before carbs".
Possibly not, I don't know. There is such a thing as being able to burn fat more readily thus keeping whatever short-term glygogen stores you have in reserve for longer, thf maintaining a higher intensity output for longer. You still need to eat while riding but you're also burning fat while doing so. Trust me, when you're unable to maintain glycogen reserves as you're burning off more calories a day than you can eat, you can burn through fat pretty fast. Being able to do that and being used to it can make a big difference in longer rides, the recent HTR for ex.
Fasted riding is a great way to lose weight but it can lead to effectively eating your own legs.
I would always have a high protein/low carb snack before riding to stay on the safe side.
Cool - well, I provided a very well regarded text with my link complete with referenced sources to back up my claims.
All you lot have just spunked off on your keyboards without giving any such backup to your claims.
I'll happily eat my hat if you can provide references to your studies.
Read my link, check the sources and studies referenced in the text.
[I]so therefore its more a combination of[s] intensity + energy stores[/s] [b]many, many things[/b] than just simplistic first in first out[/I]
Only if you sprint up hills at 90% for 2-3hrs ) You do start to digest muscle for energy if you keep riding well past the proper bonk stage, but that takes some doing.it can lead to effectively eating your own legs.
Glyphon, ifYour body works on a first in, last out way
then my bowels have been working wrongly all my life.I shudder to think how your guts work if you think the above is true.
If carbohydrate, in the form of glucose, is still circulating in the blood stream following a meal and before deposition in the liver and muscles as glycogen then it will be used before lipid stores. So he's sort of right.
