Sounds plausible
Not totally convinced either, just did a 4 day weekend, day 1 Surrey Alps and the rest in Lakes, by the end of day 3 chain was dry and getting noisy, had to use some Finish Line. Bike wasn't washed at all, few puddles but otherwise dry conditions. Will try the semi drying technique next time I wax it, likely this evening (I know how to party)
Working well on the roadie though
What chains are you running Daveosaurus?
Mid range KMC, think they are both X11s
If you don't know, TJ, pretty certain no-one does 😉 Also if the stove is good enough for you, it's good enough for me.
I was wondering whether it was too hot as well. I've tried similar to what you suggest pedlad - not a DFF but I made a basket out of some old wire mesh that goes in the tin - but I'll try experimenting more. It's all a bit imprecise/unrepeatable though.
Might just reduce the temp on the DFF to make the wax a bit thicker
How old is your tin of wax TJ? Maybe they've changed the formula just to mess with us 😀
Davosaurus - thanks, I was looking to pick up a cheap KMC from Planet X as an experiment, might just persevere with my Sil-Tec Shimano chains for now. No more multi-dayers planned for a while at least!
13th. Its tin I got from someone o here that didn't get on with it
Thenorthwind I claim no special knowledge. Indeed others on here will know a lot more chemistry than me
I merely have used it for yesrs
A few rides on mine now, seems ok so far. First damp ride on weds so this weekend will tell. What I couldn’t understand is that I did the chains off two bikes at the same time and as far as I can tell in the same way, but one ran nice and clean from the start, the other was thick with the stuff and the jockey wheels clagged after one ride.
Mine is still going on the original dunking. 170 degrees, dunk shake a bit then a quick wipe and hang to cool. Camping stove, old pan and one of those laser temperature things.
Had a few filthy wet rides now as well as the dry summer rides, haven't touched the drivetrain. Not even cleaned the muck off, not needed to, the muck does not cling any more.
Put bike away wet a couple of times, got tell tale rust appearing on SRAM 12 speed chain, just left it.
Chain is still running silently. Amazing.
Might be time to do it again, or even clean my bike properly.
but one ran nice and clean from the start, the other was thick with the stuff and the jockey wheels clagged after one ride.
Same here, I presume because I soaked one for ages in white spirits whilst just ran the other through a bog standard chain cleaner, suspect the clagginess is due to old oil still hanging around on the less clean chain? Or maybe the wax mixing with old deposits of oil on the jockey wheels, which I never bothered to clean...
Might just reduce the temp on the DFF to make the wax a bit thicker
I wouldn't.
I'd make it hotter to get it thinner, make sure you shake it around a lot. It'll thicken up as you hang it. Did you make sure it was cold before refitting it?
Hmm, both could be true, although the cleaner chain was on its first dip, the claggy one had been done once already (albeit not that successfully).
@molgrips - done all that, chain put back on cold. I think the point others are making are that if it's too hot and runny it might be running out when hanging up before it solidifies between the rollers. Maybe start with it very hot, shake it about and then knock the temp down before removing?
My suspicion is if you get the chain too hot when you hang it up to drip it drips out of the rollers. Less likely if you use a DFF as it lying on its side in the basket. Maybe?
That's definitely my thinking, the chains were exceptionally 'runny' when I hung them up to cool.
Will leave them in the fryer as it cools down, anyone know at what temperature the wax solidifies again?
How much dripped out when you took it out?
I have like two or three drips on the floor, that's all, and there's plenty caked on. I have to rub it down a lot, and then use a WD40 rag to clean it some more. Lasts well even so.
Also - I've found that at first the chain is completely silent, but after a few rides I can hear it slightly. But it's still well lubed. So maybe your chain is simply a bit more noisy than before, not actually in need of re-lubing?
Bought two new chains (SRAM PC1110) and waxed them - got the wax pretty hot, soaked them for ~10 mins, then let it cool for as long as I dared, 10-15 mins before lifting them out, laid on their sides in the basket. Tilted it a bit to get a bit of excess to run off, otherwise you get loads in between the rollers. Wiped the rest off the outside.
200km mostly dry road ride yesterday. So far so quiet, as expected. Gave it a wipe with a dieselly rag this morning to get the gunk off the outside - more than I got when taking the chain out hot.
Gonna try and keep a record of the riding and conditions this chain gets. We'll see how well I manage to keep that up. I'm sure you'll all be desperate to read The Putoline Diaries when it's published in hardback.
Surely it will be held between moving (and therefore touching) surfaces irrespective of temperature, and if the wax is more fluid it will drip off the external parts of the chain better?
Moving house and having a clearout...
I'll put this on the Classifieds but if anyone needs a rice cooker I have a Breville one in super-duper, little used condition for £10 posted.
Finally got round to re-treating chain. It's actually a different chain but I think it's still XT/Ultegra level so there's a chance it's also Sil-tec.
White spirits, left to hang dry, dunked in Argos deep fat frier for 15 minutes at 160C.
This time I turned the frier off but left chain in, the theory being I would check every 5 minutes until it was just the right consistency not to immediately drip off. Can confirm that left sitting on the concrete floor of an unheated garage, it took 30 minutes to cool down until the wax stopped dripping off the chain. It was a really convenient temperature actually, could wipe excess off outside of plates without flicking molten wax about the place. Will refit tonight, get out for a hopefully muddy spin on Thursday. If it doesn't last longer than 200km then I'll be going back to drip on lubes I think, current faff/mileage ratio isn't good enough! 😀
Well, according to the forum post It is three months since I last did my chain. It's been ridden for about four hours a week since then in mostly dryish conditions, only been hosed off after a ride and never had any additional lube. I suppose I should really redo it but it really doesn't feel like it needs it.
£40 odd quid splurged..... argos DFF for £16, ebay putoline in the post.
one quick question comes to mind. why are you wiping the surplus wax from the sides of the chain when its cooled? wouldnt it actually help if it was 'covered' in wax (bit like waxing a zip, rub loads on it), and 'transferred' bits to the cassette/mech wheels etc whilst rotating? the more wax the better? or is it so hard that there would be shifting issues for instance?
It's just cleaner that way. It still leaves a fine layer on the plates to stop em rusting but stopps you from getting sticky brown wax all over your hands and anything else it touches. You don't need it on the cassette etc.
It can clog up the jockey wheels a bit if the chain is lathered in the stuff on first use. I tend to give them a quick once over after a quick ride, it removes easily. You want the wax inside the chain not all over the outside.
In relation, another advantage not mentioned too much is cleaning your cassette and jockey wheels vs regular lube. You don't get that hard caked on black crap like you do with normal lube. Literally none at all.
In relation, another advantage not mentioned too much is cleaning your cassette and jockey wheels vs regular lube. You don’t get that hard caked on black crap like you do with normal lube. Literally none at all.
so youre saying that the waxed chain will clean your cassette through use? obviously youd have to run it through each gear first for a few minutes i suppose yep?
you wouldnt use anything else to clean your cassette? i see they do putoline spray, does anybody use that or would it just be the same effect as all the other lubes?
thanks
so youre saying that the waxed chain will clean your cassette through use?
No it just doesn't get dirty in the same way.
I wipe when warm, but there's still a residue on after that. This can flake off, along with bits from in between the plates, and this can accumulate on the jockey wheels and chainring and get smeared on the cassette which looks grubby. It's not an issue, and I tend to just leave it in muddy conditions. But in spring I gave the chain a second wipe down after the first ride and de-greased the cassette, and it stayed clean and well lubed all summer, ride after ride.
Its assuming you start with a clean cassette it gets a little wax on but does not build up black gunk at all
I haven't managed to apply it without leaving quite a thick residue on the outside of the chain. It's not easy to wipe off (when it's cool) either. Any tips?
Too hot? Not hot enough? Should I be attempting to wipe down when still hot (that seems dangerous to me)?
So far pretty impressed with it on the commuter bike. As advertised, a bit of a faff to apply but lasts for ages. On the MTB I've had to reapply already despite a vastly lower mileage than the commuter so the jury's still out on Putoline for MTB for me.
Wipe when hot. I pick mine out of the oil with a wire hook then hang it up on the garage door strut. There's a couple of drips, that's all. Then I wipe it straight away with a thick rag and it's fine, no worse than getting food out of the oven. Just make sure that you wear an apron (I always do my mechanicing in a shop apron, best purchase ever) and it's fine.
I did a fresh dose on two chains before last weekends ride around the king Alfred's way. 222 miles, mostly dry conditions with mud around. Bikes were muddy but not covered by the third day. The last 40+ miles were in progresssively heavier rain and a mix of roads, sandy/muddy bridleways and roads that might as well have been bridleways given the amount of tarmac you could see. Chains were fine for most of it- mine, which is basically new, has been wiped down, doesn’t feel gritty internally and I’m going to try it again tomorrow. My OHs felt gritty internally and then when dry rattled, so I’ve redone it.
Starting to wonder if the wax can be squeezed out of a worn chain as the rollers move.
No, it doesn't get squeezed out. It's incredibly tenacious.
If there's a difference between bikes I'd guess that it's more likely to be to do with the bike, and how close the chainrings are to the front wheel for instance. Or your OH rode through more puddles or something.
respect to mrs Teej if she allows that smell in the kitchen!
did mine earlier in the garage, and yep, whilst not being tooooo yukky, its definitely one of those lingering, back of yer throat smells.....
didnt really make the chain look much cleaner either, but im trusting that its got a nice invisible layer of wax helping it out now.
So I've been keeping notes on my Putoline usage, because I am boring, and I shall bore you with them too:
On 26/09/20 I waxed two brand new SRAM PC1110 11 speed chains (soaked for about 10 mins with the stove on, then another 10 mins with the stove off and the wax cooling, then removed and wiped). I put one on the gravel bike and since then it's done:
125 mile road ride (mostly dry conditions, occasional rain). Wiped with a dieselly rag after.
80 mile road ride (dry but wet, muddy roads). No cleaning after (mainly through laziness, but let's call it "science").
125 mile road/bridleway ride (mostly dry conditions, but road and tracks v. wet and muddy). Quiet to begin with (to my surprise) but after it got wet and dried out it was pretty noisy. No cleaning after as plan to swap the other chain on and re-wax this one. A short ride confirmed it's still noisy.
Total mileage: 386, the balance being short trips around town in the dry (I'll usually take my commuter if it's wet out). Not a bad innings I guess, but the last long ride probably would have been better overall if it'd had a fresh chain to begin with.
Stay tuned for more hot waxy action...
Seems that there is something to this wax stuff.
Or... it could be the latest bandwagon jumping by snake oil salesmen.
https://absoluteblack.cc/graphenwax-worlds-best-hot-melt-wax-coating-for-chain
Just curious, who else applies a 'top-coat' of other lube between applications of Putoline? What's best?
I kind of feel I need to lube the chain with something, otherwise it just seizes up.
I guess I'd be looking for something which doesn't displace the Putoline but sits on top and provides a nice protective layer to the exposed outer surfaces.
Have been using 3-in-1 just because I picked up a bottle when on a mini-tour recently. It seems to work but I have no idea if it's displacing the Putoline in any way (I guess I'd know as I'd end up with some sort of horrible half liquid black gunky mess oozing out of the chain?).
Was tempted by a cheap dry lube like Finish Line or Muc-off, keep the surface of the chain relatively clean and dry, no rust or seizing up, but won't gunge up drivetrain like a wet lube.
Just curious, who else applies a ‘top-coat’ of other lube between applications of Putoline? What’s best?
I did, when I was on holiday and I felt it needed doing - also when I need to head out and I've forgotten to re-fry it. Shimano wet lube for me, which is quite light and pretty gunk free. But even then it only needed one application and it lasted many more rides again.
I kind of feel I need to lube the chain with something, otherwise it just seizes up.
Something's definitely not right there. It shouldn't seize up, mine never has.
It happens if I stick the road bike back in the garage after a wet ride, next ride the chain will be solid and need back pedalled a few times to loosen off. I haven't tried just riding it like this, perhaps it would be OK, as it is instinct just kicks in and I apply some fresh lube.
In retrospect I'm not sure why I haven't been running the chain through an oily rag when I get back, I do it with the CX bike but the difference is the CX bike has been through so much mud and hosing that the chain is pretty much back to bare metal anyway!
Have just re-applied Putoline to the road chain, will experiment over the weekend although alas the weather actually looks quite good for the next few days 🙂
When I first apply it, it's stiff but it loosens up in a few revolutions. Maybe you're applying it too cold, or not wiping it down when hot so there is too much excess on it? This tends to come.off over time with me anyway, but Unlike to avoid the excess cos it looks cleaner.
Seems that Absolute Black are waxing lyrical about the stuff:
https://absoluteblack.cc/graphenwax-worlds-best-hot-melt-wax-coating-for-chain
The chain should never be seizing. I think you need to re-apply.
Don't know why AB are banging on about loosening up the links and crumbling wax after use! Never get any of that after Putoline.
They're comparing to hard paraffin wax based types like molten speed wax. Afaict noone has compared putoline to those but it'll probably be slightly less efficient but longer lasting.
Further notes from the Putoline front lines:
[Last time on Lube-watch: I waxed two brand new chains... the first one did 386 miles before it needed re-waxing... the second one has been on since the beginning of November]
Have been less diligent with note-taking, but it's done just over 300 miles, mostly dry I think but a couple of wetter rides. One 200km audax but that was dead dry. Last Sunday the last two hours were in driving rain on muddy roads and it was complaining by the time I got home so I swapped it off.
Post-ride routine for wet rides is now dry off with a rag and wipe with another rag saturated in WD40 that I keep in a little plastic box.
Putoline update:
Chain 1 (on its second use) did 413 road miles over 6 miles in the second half of December before I took it off again. There were some pretty poor conditions - snow, sleet, slush, all with mud and road grime in the mix.
I didn't think it would even be necessary to measure the chain wear at this point (it's done 800 miles total since new), but the 0.75 on my checker went in, though with quite a bit of force.
Does this sound reasonable?
Are you saying it's worn out? If you have to force the chain checker though I'm not sure that counts. You could just try measuring 12 links and getting a more quantitative answer.
I did my first Putolined ride today.
What was most noticeable after 50km, in sandy, muddy, and wet conditions, was that there was none of that unlubed chain 'hish-hish' noise.
I did need to hose the bike off after the ride, so even though I'm assuming the inside of the chain is still waxed do i need to treat the outside with anything?
I'm slowly getting the hang of it, as others have said above, hose off then maybe spin chain backwards through a rag sprayed with GT85.
I'm still morbidly afraid of the chain getting rusty but am not 100% sure the above is even necessary.
Never treat mine with anything other than a quick dry with a rag.
I made the mistake of spraying GT85 directly on the chain (Putolined) and I think it drove the wax out as I stared getting brown residue on the inside of the links and also on the cassette. I reapplied the Putoline and have since just been wiping the chain with a lightly sprayed GT85 rag and giving the cassette a quick wipe over too. Rust = 0 now.
@molgrips I certainly wouldn't replace it at this point. To be honest, I don't know how quickly a chain normally gets to the point where you can get the 0.75 in but only with this much force because I wouldn't normally check it til I thought it might be anywhere near the end of its life. I'm just giving these chains extra attention because of the Putoline. It might have plenty of miles left before the chain checker goes in easily.
Morning All,
After a muddy awful ride this last Sunday reached peak mud for this winter.
Had a mechanical because the chain was so stiff/knackered from not being lubed properly.
Ripped it off and it is busy soaking in degreaser. A can of putoline is on the way and I am going all in on putoline.
Going to be using the Argos DFF. Newbie question but do you decant/scrape the putoline into the DFF and just leave it there forever and keep using? Storing the fryer and the putoline together. Assume that is a obvious yes. What do I know though and thought it best to check.
Thanks in advance
Newbie question but do you decant/scrape the putoline into the DFF and just leave it there forever and keep using?
That's what I did. Heated the tin over gas and poured it into the DFF, where it's been since.
Yep in fryer forever. Well, maybe I will take it out and replace with homebrew parrafin wax mix in the summer that's less sticky.
I dug it out of the tin with a spoon rather than bothering to heat it.
There was more than enough to fill my fryer, there was about 30% left over. So pro tip: have a large tin or jar handy to keep the rest in. Takes up less shelf space than the massive tin it comes in.
If it’s the same Argos DFF I bought a few months back, the whole tin goes in.
Is there a 'best' way to agitate the chain to get maximum wax in there?
Just dunking it in and out seems a bit aimless.
Could I try and perch the fryer full of hot wax on top of an ultrasonic parts cleaner? 😎
Thanks All,
I look forward to my putoline enhanced future!
🙂
ff29
I look forward to my putoline enhanced future!
🙂
And what a future that will be!! Since becoming a convert my life has changed immeasurably! I've gone from being billy no mates to getting invited to all the cool lockdown parties, women throw themselves at my feet and beg to have my babies, I play along but don't tell them I had the snip years ago. Life is wonderful!!.....
Sorry, the pain killers have just kicked in 🙂
So, I went all-in on the Putoline a few weeks ago (bought a dff and did 7 chains).
I've only ridden the road bike since, but after just 4 rides the chain is feeling a bit "squeaky" and is looking like a furry, black thing. It looks like there might have been an excess of wax on the outside of the chain plates.
That said, the roads are in an awful state, and no conventional lube would have lasted this far.
Wondering if I need to tweak my dipping technique. Maybe have the wax hotter so more runs off the plates?
Wondering if I need to tweak my dipping technique. Maybe have the wax hotter so more runs off the plates?
I reckon heating the wax as hot as is safe (I think I've taken it to 180C) whilst dunking and agitating the chain, but then letting it cool gradually before removing the chain, I find after turning off the DFF it takes half an hour for the wax to cool enough that I can still lift chain out.
This way, you end up with a lot more semi-solid wax on the outer plates, but (in theory) a lot more still inside the rollers where it should be. You can then wipe as much of the wax off the outer plates as you wish, I find one muddy wet ride usually sees off the worst of it anyway and subsequent wipe downs with a GT85-y rag cleans up the rest.
My first Putoline treatment lasted 510km of mixed road and gravel riding. Yesterday's commute was accompanied by much squeaking and dry sounding chain noise like an ASDA BSO after a couple of months neglect.
Cycling through flooded roads last Friday probably didn't help longevity but I'm pleased with it's resilience.
I use 120C for the wax heat in the fryer and immerse for 8 minutes. Lift out while warm and hang up with a quick wipedown to remove the worst while it's all runny. Back to peace and quiet today after a treatment last night.
Thanks for the tips.
Do you bother cleaning the chain before re-dipping?
Cheers
I stripped mine for the first treatment by immersing it in degreaser for a couple of hours. Rinsed it clean and then dipped in the wax as above.
Second time just off the bike and into the wax.
Depending how dirty my chain is I may soak in degreaser, wipe clean leave to dry, then dunk in outline.
If it's cleanish but just getting a bit dry then I don't bother and just dunk straight in.
although I'm not getting herculean times before reapplication quoted by some, overall I'm very happy with the performance Vs faff. Way better than wet lube and way better than homebrew wax (in the winter at least - summer homebrew wax is better I think)
I don't clean it first no. It's not usually dirty, as I wash the chain out with a hose after the ride. The best thing about this stuff is that I can do that and it doesn't wash lube away, just grit.
I just chuck the chain in. If it's muddy after an MTB ride I may be generous and either hose it down or wipe any excess mud off but I certainly don't clean the chain. Just dunk it in the black gloop. If it's wet it bubbles away for several minutes. When it stops bubbling I take it out.
IANALube-ologist
Had the shortest lifespan of a treatment to date- two rides. That’s nearly 70 miles in absolutely appalling conditions though. Whole drivetrain clagged up with mud, plenty of deep puddles sort of thing. I could probably squeak another ride out of mine but my other half’s definitely past it.
I had a longer run pre Christmas in wetter conditions but that involved more sandy riding- working theory is that wet, sandy water just runs off while heavier, stickier mud builds up and pushes its way into the chain.
Fryer has definitely made it easier than doing it on a stove.
I think I am about 6 months in now of seeing the light of Putoline.
In really wet and muddy weather/rides, I definitely need to re-fry after about 100km, and do a quick run through a GT85'd rag after hosing down the bike in between.
The greatest benefit on those rides is... silence. None of the grinding/graunching noises of the past. just smooth shifting.
I almost lost the faith recently as I was having to reapply more frequently, rusty chains and only getting 1 or 2 rides, but I learned: I had the DFF too hot (indicated at 190c). Wax was maybe too thin? I don't know the exact dynamics of why, but now its down at an indicated 140c and I am much happier with the longevity and positive effect again.
That’s interesting, i also use 140c, your experience at temperature mirrors mine.
I almost lost the faith recently as I was having to reapply more frequently, rusty chains and only getting 1 or 2 rides, but I learned
Two rides is better than about 0.2 of a ride which is what I used to see in such conditions, of course.
I have been using hotter temps in the name of cleanliness, so perhaps I'll try again with cooler. Maybe hotter temps for summer and cooler for winter? There's a thought.
I think if it's hotter then more runs out as you let it drip.
I'm at 130, leave the chain horizontal in the basket for a bit to start to solidify the wax inside before holding it up to then wipe the soft but not runny wax off the outside plates. Having to re-wax every 4-5 wet muddy rides atm ~70 miles and doing the gt85 wipe to slow down rust.
I've been a big fan of squirt lube for years. I never have dry sounding chains or longevity issues, it's really really good stuff. The only downside is that I have to wipe down and reapply it after every ride and that starts to cost a fair bit ££.
I'm going to give putoline a shot if it means I can save a few quite and not have to reapply after each ride.
I do ride about 1,400km a month at the moment. Mostly on wet roads at this time of year though. I don't really ride MTB when it's super muddy. Roll on dusty trails....
Question - would there be any issues with topping it up with squirt once in a while? I can just see me neededing to give it another dunk in putoline but wanting to squeeze an extra ride or two in first.
I’ve topped up with a spray of something or other, I certainly didn’t notice any ill effects.
(Gt85, wd40, ep90 oil)
Used sparingly, it shouldn’t need a lot.
So after several years of Squirt and Smoove, this winter's appalling conditions on the Surry Hills have forced me to resort to drastic measures.
The tin of Putoline arrived, so I'll clean the current fatbike chain tonight and Putoline it on the camping gas stove tomorrow. If it seems good then I'll invest in an Argos DFF.
Any tips for a first time user?
Wipe the excess off the chain when you lift it out of the wax. Do it before it’s completely cold.
Any tips for a first time user?
Don't take the chain out of the hot bath ,hang it up to dry and use your fingers to wipe off the excess. It's a bit hot!!
these reports seems to be what I get from my routine of Viking juice before I have to re-apply. Last ride in almost constant puddles and loose mud (20 miles each way along the TPT) wasn’t noisy but needed reapplication after a hose down (normal for any dropper application )
I did think you’d all be getting better mileage than you’re all reporting, although presumably you’re not having to reapply after nearly every clean like I am
I did see a youtube video from a chap who took his chain out of the hot wax and immediately submerged it in cold water to make the wax go hard in order to stop it dripping out of the rollers. I can see the logic, might give it a shot.
Question – would there be any issues with topping it up with squirt once in a while?
No, I made one application last all summer with just two re-applications of a light oil (Shimano wet in this case) which seemed to make it re-flow. I'd probably use oil again rather than squirt.
I did see a youtube video from a chap who took his chain out of the hot wax and immediately submerged it in cold water to make the wax go hard in order to stop it dripping out of the rollers. I can see the logic, might give it a shot.
Hmm... sounds a lot messier than just gradually reducing the temp of the DFF until the wax is too cool to run off?
Admittedly this leaves you with a lot of surface wax but in wet muddy conditions this barely lasts on ride! Wiping down with GT85 on a rag seems to remove the rest of it, I certainly don't end up with accumulations building anywhere.