[Closed] Procore

This chap probably thinks they are worth it...

[img] [/img]

... though doubt he has to buy his own!

For both wheels. It's better than I thought it would be!
I'd need to try some before I invested though.

Wonder if you can DIY it with a pair of old tubs?

I'm glad it is a single valve now.

Wonder if you can DIY it with a pair of old tubs?

Some chap on Bike Radar (I think )had DIYd it using some road tyres, done a good job too!

yeah I'm happy that I can get on this without needing new rims or tyres. still think it's a great idea, not that I'm fit to polish Sam's saddle.

Anyone out there already running low pressures thinking this is a waste of money?

Interesting - without having read anything about it I'd assumed it was going to be a system that required dedicated tyres etc.

I'd be quite tempted if the street price is somewhat less - I seem to have developed a habit of snake biting tubeless tyres near the bead anytime I go somewhere rocky - (I could even try and persuade myself) this might actually save me money in the long run 🙂

To fit Procore you need:
... #5 A little patience and skill when fitting

I'm looking forward to some very entertaining posts on here once people start trying this set up. 😀

Looks very interesting, but I might wait for the price to drop a bit before I think about investigating it properly.

It's interesting to me, but probably a bit too heavy. I'm not too sure about the combination of lightweight tyres and very low pressures, you might get a lot of grip but you'll also get floppy tyres...

you might get a lot of grip but you'll also get floppy tyres...

I've heard it said a lot of times, that offroad, lower pressures drag less.
I'm not convinced, but I run low pressures anyway because I'm light and tend to get away with it.

Love the traction and extra suspension of low pressures.
I've still never gone tubeless though!

I can't seem to go less than 35psi (UST tubeless). I'm not even that heavy (well comparitively @93kg).

Anyone know when you'll actually be able to buy them? Early next year is all I've read.

wrecker - I'm a similar weight to you and can happily run as low as 20psi (and I'm thrashing my bike in the Alps every day), but beefy, dual-ply tyres are essential. Single-ply won't last me more than a couple of weeks.

Meanwhile in France...

[url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3900/15075116456_f603793ea9_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3900/15075116456_f603793ea9_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/oY8UUY ]IMG_2914[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/53860438@N06/ ]Northwindlowlander[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3882/15075234096_d966c1ba57_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3882/15075234096_d966c1ba57_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/oY9vTf ]IMG_2916[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/53860438@N06/ ]Northwindlowlander[/url], on Flickr

Northwind - second one was a weird burp + gravel inhalation, not a flat!

Has Pat just landed a jump in that last pic?....

So why is this better than running a tough sidewall eg: a Super gravity for additional protection for the average trail rider?

Weight would be the same... And it doesn't exactly solve the problem of cutting sidewalls...

When folks talk about procore they always talk about punctures
It's not about that it's about maintaining spring rate at low pressure.
Think tokens in pikes , same thing sort of.

Have a read of this
http://m.pinkbike.com/news/sam-hill-bike-shwalbe-procore-tires.html

stevomcd - Member

Northwind - second one was a weird burp + gravel inhalation, not a flat!

Yeah, but I missed the second flat so it evens out eh

Potentially very dumb question here... Could you not: -

- drill additional valve hole in rim
- refit tubeless tyre
- fit undersized (diameter and width tube) using one valve hole
- fit tubeless valve to remaining valve hole
- inflate inner tube to hold shape only
- add sealant to tyre
- inflate tubeless tyre to say 30psi
- inflate tune to about 50psi
- deflate tyre to 20psi

Can anyone find the commentary from Norway of Warner and Page trying to explain this to the world?

jamj1974 - I don't think this will work - The flexibility of the core tube, would make it deform too easily when pinched. The only reason it's staying at the shape you want, is because you've balanced the inner and outer pressures. That balance, would mean it would deform just as easily.
(in my head anyway). You need something that will hold it's own shape at a high pressure.

People have experimented with tubular road tyres, and I think that works.
They complained that cost of tubs was high, but I guess you could get worn ones second-hand.

Cheers Alex - I imagine you are right. More stiffness is likely to be needed!

I'm looking into doing a ghetto version with tubulars. a bit of shopping around reveals that you can get 26" road tubs in the £20 range. The only thing that's currently bugging me is how to ensure that the air can get from the tubeless valve into the main tyre when the innner tubular tyre is inflated - it would likely press on the valve and prevent airflow into the outer tyre. There's only one way to find out though. Gonna get drilling on an old wheel and give it a try.

There's another thread on ghetto - some good info on there (including the info that 26" tubs were too tight).

So why is this better than running a tough sidewall eg: a Super gravity for additional protection for the average trail rider?

Because it protects rims against impact strikes better and it will possibly allow you to run even lower pressures with less roll by the looks of it. And yes, also it's to do with being able to run low pressures and still have the "spring rate" of the tyre ramp up quickly/progressively.

Synatce are behind it, so I'm definitely going to try it. This is one of the few new products I haven't scoffed at this year - far better invention than new axle sizes.

What solves cutting sidewalls is riding well. 😆 I've never bothered with dual plys unless I was racing.

My next trail bike is getting procore, plus the 1500 gram Superstar carbon wheelset - which should bring the weight up to a set of Flow EX's in a stiffer grippier setup. I'll probably knock some of the weight back off by dropping down to a Nobby Nic or a 2.25 Hans Dampf instead of the 2.35 Hans Dampf as 24 PSI on the front gives me a good amount of grip on smaller tyres.

I've had the pleasant experience of riding an early (twin valve) prototype for a week in Finale a couple of months ago. Syntace W40 rim on a Liteville 601.
Everyone in our group pinchflatted at some stage during the week, despite most running dual-ply Maxxis tubeless... everyone except me that is 😀
That's not a skills boast as I'm usually the the one to destroy rims and tyres. The pro-core was faltless all week, despite me continually knocking seven bells out of it and denting the rim quite badly, it never lost pressure. I'll be buying it.

lol at the 14.5st guy who thinks he's thrashing his bike in the Alps while running 20psi.

Your guage, scales or gnarometer need recalibrated mate. seriously.

Quite surprised if Stevo weighs 14.5 stone but he's no need of a gnarometer reset, I've ridden with him and seen the state of his bikes after a season, they get thrashed like a tory backbencher. (ie, maybe not quite as hard as some, but every day for as long as they live).

(though he's had a couple of flats every time I've been out with him, I think he just edits them from his memory. "Bloody guests, always faffing!")

Having ridden with you both I'd be surprised at Steve being that heavy now too...

Still... 20 psi = a foldy sidewall for anyone over 14st who actually loads their bike in turns... euuuueeewwww!! no ta.. leave that shit to beach/snow riders and their immeasurable grins.

Merry Christmas to the both of you.

Yah, you need higher pressures for cyclocross I think

Steve's weight is probably 9/10ths hair and sunscreen.

😉

ChunkyMTB
Has Pat just landed a jump in that last pic?...

When they say "Yeah, Pat, he's pretty laid back" this is what they mean! 😉

mtbel
lol at the 14.5st guy who thinks he's thrashing his bike in the Alps while running 20psi.

Your guage, scales or gnarometer need recalibrated mate. seriously.

Whilst that^^^^ accusation would i suspect describe a few of the STW massive, in reality, Stevo is actually an exception. Having had the pleasure of chasing him off the top of a few Pointy mountains in the last few years, he doesn't hold back in my experience! 😉

20psi..?

Thats pretty high.. I run 12psi in my Magic Mary SG Vertstar (tubeless)

I was really looking forward to procore until i realise you can't swap tyres easily.

i know mtb'ing is expensive, but cant figure out how they cant get away charging £150 for some inner tubes?

i know mtb'ing is expensive, but cant figure out how they cant get away charging £150 for some inner tubes?

How about £150 to guarantee you never have any punctures in a downhill race and have more grip too?

fr0sty125 - Member

I was really looking forward to procore until i realise you can't swap tyres easily.

Why not? I've not used it, but the descriptions suggest it should be no harder than changing a tube with a tyre

How about £150 to guarantee you never have any punctures in a downhill race and have more grip too?

I'm not seeing anything in the Schaalwber 'blurb' that says that the procore is puncture resistant*? What's to stop a thorn or whatever puncturing it, and then you are left with running a normal tubeless set at silly low pressure?

*If it is puncture resistant, you'd think that Schwealbe would make that fact really really obvious, but maybe they were laughing so hard at the price tag that they forgot to mention this.

I'm not seeing anything in the Schaalwber 'blurb' that says that the procore is puncture resistant*? What's to stop a thorn or whatever puncturing it, and then you are left with running a normal tubeless set at silly low pressure?

*If it is puncture resistant, you'd think that Schwealbe would make that fact really really obvious, but maybe they were laughing so hard at the price tag that they forgot to mention this.

I'm guessing it won't be sold at RRP for long if demand and supply increases and other manufacturers bring their own goods to the market. You have to recuperate R&D costs at the end of the day and procore probably only appeals to a relatively small market right now. Nor is it just a set of tubes, there are four tubes (inner plus outer) in total and then a tonne of stuff to set it up including tyre levers and sealant.

Anyway, it's cheaper than a new frame and forks for 650b+.

http://www.starbike.com/en/schwalbe-procore-set/

£137 delivered. Though not in stock yet.

There's 'outer' tubes as well as inner tubes?? I was wondering what the big rubber things were in the packaging.... I think I'll wait for the fat bike version that will no doubt have six tubes in each tyre.

There are ghetto versions of this posted on MBTR though. I'll just wait a bit until other people get their hands on them and give procore a go, then I might splurge on the real thing as I can't be bothered with the faff that goes with ghetto anything.

Walleater, just for comparison a stans no tube kit retails for nearly 50 quid. It is a bit on the high side, but I should imagine it will eventually come down once Schwalbe have recouped their costs.

I won't complain about new developments that don't require me changing my forks, wheels and frame that might actually give me a discernible performance and durability benefit (snake bite and burping protection).

walleater, I was wondering that as well. thought you had the inner tube and then a 'tubeless' tyre.

s'lot of money. 😕

£150 for two inner tubes, two inner 'tyres', and two special valves. What do you think the R&D costs were for the project? Fancy getting a quote on the tooling for all that? And filing all the international patents... Once you've sold someone a Procore kit it doesn't look like it'll wear out like tyres do, so you can't expect to sell as large a quantity.

What's the main cause of flats in DH racing? I doubt it's thorns on a track that's being ridden and walked repeatedly. I'd bet that the vast majority of the time it's pinch flats. Procore should prevent this and allow lower pressure without rim dings or burping. Fort Bill 2014 - of the three quickest women, Manon, Rachel & Emmeline, only one got to the bottom without a flat in the final. And she had a prototype Procore system.

Did anyone running a prototype Procore system last season get a flat?

Rosebikes showing them at £129, available in 2 weeks apparently.
Very interested to hear any experiences of this stuffs.

The other benefit that doesn't seem to have been mentioned is that a flat in a race will obviously deflate the tyre, but Procore holds the beads on to the rim. This way you can still get to the bottom and finish your run without dropping as much time as on a conventional system.