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Dangerousbeans now you are being silly, we could turn everything around like that. You make assessments upon what you see, hear, what jobs you are attending, staff levels etc etc. If pc was attending a burglary in progress but stopped to male waving at her who says I have lost my house keys, then woman at burglary who dialled 999 got raped and murdered then what? See assessment upon points above.
would 20 seconds make that much of a difference?
How can you prioritise two incidents when you only know what one is?
Warton has summed it up better than me.
On my way back about 40 mins later the woman was still in the car, I stopped and found out she had got her hand trapped in the cassette slot of her stereo.
We pulled the whole stereo out of the car with her hand still in it, took her inside her house , tried all sorts to get it out, and eventually put her hand in a bucket of ice cold water,her hand came out, but the stereo was ****ed
Guess what , she tried to claim from the police for a new stereo!!!!!!
A man would have just repeatedly pressed EJECT.
Warton
Think about this,
If you were going to a report of a male breaking into an old ladies house, she was upstairs and could hear the thief downstairs going through the drawers.You were nearby in a police car and shouted upmtonattend the incident.
The lady is elderly and vulnerable, you don't put the blues and twos on because you don't want to alert the thief.
As you are going to the job you see a male at the side of the road asking for help, he is not injured, not being attacked,mans does not look to be in any distress
Do you. A: stop and speak to the man and see what the problem is
B: quickly assess the situation and carry on to the vulnerable lady
C: Don't go to either job, go and get another do nut
Be quick and make a decision because it all happens very quickly, as you are also thinking about the vulnerable lady, the thief, what his escape route might be, whats been stolen, if she's injured, how bad will she be, etc etc etc
[newsflash] bicycle thief steals Police car to make getaway [/newsflash]
[newsflash] bicycle thief steals Police car to make getaway [/newsflash]
Dressed as a Policewoman!
it's a very good question easygirl, and as I'm not in the police, one I can't answer. In a perfect world the answer would be A, but I can understand why you would choose B.
But you are saying you assess without asking him what's going on, it could be infinitely more urgent than the call you are on but, as was alluded to earlier, the mindset is to ignore being flagged down as it's most likely a waste of time.
It's hard to give her the benefit of the doubt, especially since I've experienced similar to this. As a cyclist I've been side swiped by a bus, damaging my clothing and shaking me up, and the bus driver refused to hand over details. There was a police car ahead with two very bored looking police officers in it, sat waiting at a light, and I beg them to get the details and..............they simply refused. They don't quickly say, "Sorry, busy right now, call the reg in and someone else will help." They simply refuse.
you don't put the blues and twos on because you don't want to alert the thief.
So he can carry on robbing the old lady, I would think having the Blues & two's on should be the first priority so he leaves the old ladies house quickly.
Is it beyond plod training to say "I'm on a shout, you need to call the station", rather than "I'm busy"?
police would never go anywhere if stopped every time.
Is it really quite as bad as that? I see a lot of police cars about (about the only police presence I ever do see IIRC) but I don't see them getting flagged down left right and centre.
Today is a bank holiday. Bank Holidays are a nightmare for your average Plod - they are the busiest work days of the year, but when there are 2 together they're incredible.
Uusually on a bank holiday people get very drunk indeed; on a double BH they go mad! This causes all kinds of issues for the Police: Domestics, violence, street robberies, general drunk fuelled stupidity - you get the picture.
Now here's the (not so) clever bit. Just like New Year's Eve we know about BH's well in advance, and we know without any shadow of a doubt that it will be busy. So you would think that the powers that be (Inspectors and above) would plan for this and get in more staff to cope. Well they don't, never do and never have. You see, a PC currently gets double time overtime for working BH's, which means they're expensive wage days. To counter this, you guessed it - less staff are rotored to work on what are the busiest days of the year. You couldn't make it up.
Because young in service cops are cheaper to pay on a BH (lower on wage scale), you tend to find more probationary Constables or student officers as they are now called, working on their own with little or no supervision. This is also true for special Constables - a BH is an opportunity for them to work (because they're away from their normal job), so get thrown a set of keys and get out and about on their own.
Now obviously I don't know any specifics about this particular incident, but you can bet she was busy with some other job; whether she had blues and twos on is a complete irrelevance. Most forces now operate a 'graded response policy', meaning how the job is graded dictates how a cop responds. Also, as mentioned above, the chances of her being young in service or a Special are very high, meaning they wouldn't have 'blues & twos' authority and would have to obey all traffic law (i.e. they can't claim speed & red light exemptions etc.).
There are any number of jobs that she could have been travelling to that would mean she would stop for you waving. What if she was delivering a death message? More people die on the roads on BH's. The fact is, we just don't know. So really, is it worth coming on to a cycling forum to slag off someone who may now be hitting the bottle after having worked the worst shift of her career? of course it is - it makes you feel loads better. Well done.
Seems to me that the police do a good job for the most part but spend most of the time catching the same people who just get let out again. There's a whole bit chunk of our society that is fundamentally broken and the police seem to spend all their time cleaning up the mess.
I know that I should know better, but the sentences summarised at the end of that police camera programme are worryingly unrepresentative of the crimes committed.
It's a difficult decision about priorities, but fwiw I'm with the police officer in this situation, unless of course she really was on a doughnut run...
Today is a bank holiday. Bank Holidays are a nightmare for your average Plod - they are the busiest work days of the year, but when there are 2 together they're incredible.Uusually on a bank holiday people get very drunk indeed; on a double BH they go mad! This causes all kinds of issues for the Police: Domestics, violence, street robberies, general drunk fuelled stupidity - you get the picture.
Now here's the (not so) clever bit. Just like New Year's Eve we know about BH's well in advance, and we know without any shadow of a doubt that it will be busy. So you would think that the powers that be (Inspectors and above) would plan for this and get in more staff to cope. Well they don't, never do and never have. You see, a PC currently gets double time overtime for working BH's, which means they're expensive wage days. To counter this, you guessed it - less staff are rotored to work on what are the busiest days of the year. You couldn't make it up.
Because young in service cops are cheaper to pay on a BH (lower on wage scale), you tend to find more probationary Constables or student officers as they are now called, working on their own with little or no supervision. This is also true for special Constables - a BH is an opportunity for them to work (because they're away from their normal job), so get thrown a set of keys and get out and about on their own.
Now obviously I don't know any specifics about this particular incident, but you can bet she was busy with some other job; whether she had blues and twos on is a complete irrelevance. Most forces now operate a 'graded response policy', meaning how the job is graded dictates how a cop responds. Also, as mentioned above, the chances of her being young in service or a Special are very high, meaning they wouldn't have 'blues & twos' authority and would have to obey all traffic law (i.e. they can't claim speed & red light exemptions etc.).
There are any number of jobs that she could have been travelling to that would mean she would stop for you waving. What if she was delivering a death message? More people die on the roads on BH's. The fact is, you just don't know. So really, is it worth coming on to a cycling forum to slag off someone who may now be hitting the bottle after having worked the worst shift of her career? of course it is - it makes you feel loads better. Well done
You could of been out on another shout instead of writing that lot 😉
hat if she was delivering a death message? More people die on the roads on BH's. The fact is, you just don't know. So really, is it worth coming on to a cycling forum to slag off someone who may now be hitting the bottle after having worked the worst shift of her career? of course it is - it makes you feel loads better. Well done.
If she was delivering a death message I would asume that could wait for 20 seconds while she spoke to Hora? secondly, she also maybe having a cuppa after a long and hard shift, where nothing of any note happened, just to balance it out a bit
You make split second decisions
My priority going to a report of a thief on to an old ladies house, would be the safety of the lady, then catching the thief
Assessing the hora at the roadside I would put him second in line, from what I knew at the time, no injury, no other sign of disturbance etc
that is my assessment, in an ideal world I would stop and speak, but policing is not an ideal science
I have some books if you want to judge the contents just by looking at them.
Do you like this song i'm listening to?
mrdestructo - MemberIt's hard to give her the benefit of the doubt, especially since I've experienced similar to this. As a cyclist I've been side swiped by a bus, damaging my clothing and shaking me up, and the bus driver refused to hand over details. There was a police car ahead with two very bored looking police officers in it, sat waiting at a light, and I beg them to get the details and..............they simply refused. They don't quickly say, "Sorry, busy right now, call the reg in and someone else will help." They simply refuse.
That is wrong and worth a formal complaint as the driver has committed a couple of different crimes there.
Must just be me - EVERY time I have needed the police they have been polite, friendly and professional and have done what they could properly.
If I need some polis urgently near me, I nip to the nearest McDonald's. There's nearly always a bizziemobile parked in the car park there. It's no wonder they can't catch anyone on foot anymore. Chubby bizzies.
Else, I just mention that I have met deluded in person if I'm on the phone - they normally get me someone within the hour.
Mildred. Would you have responded thus? I doubt it.
You know she either made a bad judgement call with hindsight* or she was idle or worsearrogant.
*prob tired 1hr from end of shift, alone/no backup and now regrets not stopping. I image post shift sometimes you guys wish things had panned out differently
If only you'd taken your beautiful penis out hora.
Come on guys why does it always end up with the Police being made out to be worse than sh*te?
They have a thankless job to do, where and when praise is due it s ever given and when things don't goto plan or mistakes are made they are slated by the general public and the press!
End of the day you will never know what the panda was responding to, does it really matter?
Hora - why didn't you try and prevent the thief rather than waste time flagging or trying to flag the officer down?
ex police here.
Try doing the job, THEN complain that the police are useless. Most of the arrogant pricks on this forum wouldnt last 10 minutes.
Well said Internetidiot. 😀
No death messges cannot wait 20 seconds, in the day of social media we have had victim's families informed of deaths before police could get to them. Imagien you had read your son had been killed on FB? Would you rather he stopped to speak to Wharton than made a quick decision on what he could see at that time? People really have no idea how it works out there, we would all love to stop and help every single person for every single crime they come across but we can't. Mildred has explained a lot of it quite well. Day like today you would've had probably 7 officers covering Oxford City and the outers. Now assess what you are going to atten and how you deal with things?
FLippinheckler, no silent approach, you want to catch that thief again this would've been assessed from what was given over the 9's call. She is locked away where thief can't reach her? otherwise threat/danger blues are on.
Was it even definately a PC? could've been a PCSO? We could keep giving you scenarios and you still haven't responded, have you complained?
MC - I don't think I am suggesting you have an easy job and I appreciate that you need to make quick assessments. My concern is that the tone of the initial comments was that situations were avoided by ignoring the public who were trying to flag you down.
This was countered by you (and easygirl) stating that calls had to be prioritized but it seems to me that prioritizing one case over another with absolutely no information about one situation seemed folly.
easygirl then gave an example where she had ignored a member of the public to attend a call and on her return to that person found a less than serious situation. However, this was more by luck than judgement as she had little, or no, information about the stereo lady's problem when she decided to ignore her. She only knew it was non urgent on her return later.
As for internetidiot's post it appears that only serving or ex Police Officers can have an opinion on whether an individual employed to serve the public has acted appropriately.
Fair enough, I better shut up then.
Isnt it a criminal offence to not cooperate with crime details to the police? If it is then the policewoman is assisting a crime.
Also to all the people who say she didnt have to stop... How would you feel if your friend was being stabbed to death and tried to flag down a police car and they shook their head and said busy? Pathetic.
We pay for police so they should at least stop. Sometimes its just better to take the law into our own hands. If i ever caught someone trying to steal my bike they certainly wont be able to walk again.
OP, i really hope you complain and get her in trouble. Plus i hope your friend is ok and hope he/she gets the bike back.
ex police here.Try doing the job, THEN complain that the police are useless. Most of the arrogant pricks on this forum wouldnt last 10 minutes.
Well done, you just make police sound even worse.
Don't you think that forum members jump on the bandwagon with posts like this?
Like I said earlier, quick to bitch and never to praise.
If a new thread was created praising the actions of an officer do you think it would get the same response?
Would possibly be - "its there job that's what they are paid to do"..
+1 for the Great British Bobby.
Isnt it a criminal offence to not cooperate with crime details to the police? If it is then the policewoman is assisting a crime.
Biggest load of poop on this thread so far. It is possible that [u]If[/u] she deliberately ignored hora when she didn't have an urgent job to attend, that the officer would be guilty of neglect of duty.
OP, i really hope you complain and get her in trouble.
Not interested whether or not there is a reasonable explanation then?
If i ever caught someone trying to steal my bike they certainly wont be able to walk again.
Okay
Mjsmke - What a TOOL coming out with comments like that!
Do they no contribute towards there own wages?
It's like trying to talk to complete ****wits on here
I've tried to explain the complex nature of police work, and the problems making split second decisions and it's as if I've not posted anything at all
Why can you not appreciate that police sometimes HAVE to make decisions on limited information, they have no choice
It's not ideal, but that's the way it is
There are too may criminals and not enough police
Good night all, I'm putting my iPad away before I smash it against my own head
If you see a crime in progress, wouldn't you dial 999 and then the control room can deal with it, according to resources and whatever else is happening? The only time I ever did so they were immediately interested and asked further details.
Or you can come on here and play the 'what if' game.
As the copper didn't stop to find out what she was being flagged down over how could she have made any judgement on priority of case?
Hora - did you not have a phone on you to phone the police after being ignored by the copper you tried to flag down?
You could of been out on another shout instead of writing that lot
Doubt it - I'm quite expensive these days!!
As an illustration to MC's bit above:
A short while ago I had to deliver a death message to the next of kin of a lad killed in a RTC. There was no reply to knocking at his known addresses so I spent hours sifting through endless databases searching for anyone with a connection to this lad. I trawled through bins of rubbish to try and find something with a shred of anything on it, such as another name (partner, housemate etc.) that would give me a clue where else to find someone to talk to. I performed endless door-door enquiries to find out who and where the relatives were, all to no avail. Unfortunately, someone had found out and posted it on facebook, which was read by this lad's sister, who promptly told elderly mum and dad, who then proceeded to the scene of the crash, which was still closed to the public.
The family and close friends turned up to find the road closed, but ignored this and walked straight through the scene to the nearest yellow jacket - the forensic investigator. He jumped out of his skin to see people walking through his scene (particularly because he had no idea who they were).
Whilst this was happening he then had a tractor trundle straight through the middle of the scene, to which he could do nothing as he was dealing with the family as best he could on his own.
As is now the case all over the country, the responsibility to close roads at serious and life altering crashes has fallen to the local council. Because of frankly unsustainable budget cuts to your Police, there is generally nobody available to sit in a car at either end of the scene to explain to memebers of the public that they are not allowed to pass the road closure. In this case, the forensic crash investigator was on his own - since the advent of very accurate GPS scene loggers this is often the case. This year on every scene he has examined he has had a member of the public walk through because clearly do not cross this line tape doesn't apply to everyone!!
For the family of this poor lad to find out that their nearest and dearest had died in such a violent sudden way is just horrible - I cry at this. For the Forensic investigator to have to deal with this on his own, do his job, and wrangle farmer Giles in his tractor is simply wrong. If I had been able to find the next of kin I could've prevented this, but i was on my own. The thing is - it wasn't an emergency. There was no way I could justify sticking Blues & Twos on for me to drive between houses and rummage through bins. But in contrast to this, there is no way on this planet that I would have stopped for anybody waving their arms at me - they would've been very lucky to get "I'm busy" mouthed at them.
By the way Mark, did you report it?
ex police here.Try doing the job, THEN complain that the police are useless. Most of the arrogant pricks on this forum wouldnt last 10 minutes.
Well done, you just make police sound even worse.
+1
So you need to have had first hand experience before you can have an opinion.
Why are you EX police ?
Easygirl well said, I think it is like banging your head against a brick wall. I'm out of this thread, if you want to see what it's like arrange a ride along with your local force, or become a special. Now they are people I respect doing my job for free! Flipping heck I wouldn't (another thread).
Like I said earlier, quick to bitch and never to praise.
praise where it's due, that is a Great Baton strike!
[img] 
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How can you give an opinion you know **** all about?
Don't you just love it when they have to circle something in a photo because the intended audience can't be expected to spot it for themselves?
looks like a good hit on a green spot
All that is wrong with the internet in one thread, great now I have to side with Horak, I mean what is the world coming too...
To all the police, thank you, you genrally do a thankless task, sometimes those in the force get it wrong, more often than not you get it right & I for one am grateful.
I think we all remember the "could you" adverts, well I couldn't mainly because of the expressions posted on this thread, it's sad really.
Cheers.