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DK - Member
I think you missed my point... It is unlikely to break, due to the simplicity of design and manufacturing processes involved.
saw a brand new alpine swing arm written off in a 2mph topple onto some rocks on a demo day. There is nothing in the design that makes it less prone to impact, cracks etc.
I noticed they aren't selling size XL, wonder what the reasoning was there.
might be as simple as, they don't expect a huge demand (sales forecasts or lack of demand on the XL gyro) for XL, so why go to the trouble of making one?
DK - MemberI think you missed my point... It is unlikely to break, due to the simplicity of design and manufacturing processes involved.
there's roughly 5 and a half miles of weld on an orange frame.
or more accurately between 4 & 6 miles depending on who did it 😉
saw a brand new alpine swing arm written off in a 2mph topple onto some rocks on a demo day. There is nothing in the design that makes it less prone to impact, cracks etc.
That would be known as a freak accident then....and can happen to anybody's bike with whatever design suspension.
I like single pivot designs, i ran an Ariel through a winter and didnt have a single problem with the one oversize bushing it pivoted on, arguably in the UK's wet and muddy winters they make perfect sense.
I do agree with the criticism leveled at Orange re. their components, for the money being asked to get a Revelation or Fox 32 on a 150-160mm bike when most of the opposition are now speccing Pikes is distinctly underwhelming....i know its not about component list, its about how the bike rides but when it comes to parting with £2500+ for a bicycle i'd like the latest forks and a dropper post in with the deal please....Nukeproof, Commencal, Canyon, YT etc etc can all do it....even bloody On-One have managed it with the Codeine so there's no excuse for Orange really.
On the other hand they have their assembly works in the UK and i'm sure pay more for this than having the bikes shipped over near enough built from the far east....perhaps the bikes have to cost more so that UK workers can be paid a living wage?....this is something STW seems to be decidedly schizophrenic about, most seem to want the latest parts on their bikes for not much money but at the same time criticise the lack of money in the UK bike industry, you cant have it both ways....if you want Orange to employ UK workers up in Halifax then you'll pay a bit more for the bike.
Orange could perhaps go down the YT, Canyon, Radon route and go internet only, they could still assemble the bikes in Halifax but do away with any dealerships, middle men, demo days etc etc....might still be able to pay their UK staff a decent wage and then put decent components on their bikes too?
saw a brand new alpine swing arm written off in a 2mph topple onto some rocks on a demo day. There is nothing in the design that makes it less prone to impact, cracks etc.
deviant - MemberThat would be known as a freak accident then....and can happen to anybody's bike with whatever design suspension.
...and the chances are, if it were less then 5 years old they'd be able to supply you with the replacement parts.
deviant - Member
saw a brand new alpine swing arm written off in a 2mph topple onto some rocks on a demo day. There is nothing in the design that makes it less prone to impact, cracks etc.
That would be known as a freak accident then....and can happen to anybody's bike with whatever design suspension.
Ah we'll... Paid my £550... Used! Take my chances!
A new alloy sp frame for £1.5k? ...who are they kidding?! Lol
The point was as they had stopped making them they might not. Also the poster was suggesting that due to the simple design they are less prone to failure. They suffer the same as other bikes.
Yea, the other stumbling block is actualy justifying buying any bike in the forst place! But yes, it looks very tempting. But I still think I'd rather go for lowered Pike rather than a Reba, swaping from revs to lyriks was a revelation (gettit?) and I don't want to go back!What about the new SCR model? Not seen any ride repots yet, but I thought the front mech had been sacrificed specifically to make the pivot stiffer.
Pretty much on the ball for an alloy frame (and I don't think SP detracts anything from the costs, it's not like Santa Cruz or Spesh have a department of people working on VPP or horst links, IIRC all of spesh's mountain bikes come from one guy called Brandon IIRC? And an article on Trek pretty much summed it up with "this guy designs frames, this guy does the graphics*" The huge R&D department is a myth.A new alloy sp frame for £1.5k? ...who are they kidding?! Lol
*the fact that 1/2 of the effort goes into graphics and marketing tells you how little effort it actualy takes to develop a bike. OK it's a full time job for someone, buit it's not like they have a team of people working none stop on the next Blur for 4 years as soon as this ones done, it's a few months development.
Another Hora knows nowt thread...awesome
My five was the best riding bike I've ever owned. CCDB, set of lyriks in the front - regretted selling it and keeping the Camber I had because it had 'on trend' wheels.
Orange full builds are expensive, but then so are Santa Cruz builds. I worked out that if you bought a top spec bronson complete, circa 9k, you'd actually spend £30 more than buying a frame and building everything up at full RRP. So the answer? Don't buy a complete.
As for the 'it's too much money for a single pivot' argument - I'd rather have a design thats been refined over a number of years, than a completely different design that hints that they got it wrong with the previous model. When I got mine in 2012, it had the maxle back end, tapered headtube, 67 degree head angle and a 30.9 seat tube for a dropper. Bar wheel size, that would be pretty much on spec for today. Yes its made out of aluminium but it was properly awesome to ride and the bike I miss the most. I'd have another without question, at full RRP.
dirtydog - Member...and the chances are, if it were less then 5 years old they'd be able to supply you with the replacement parts.
Nah, that's where we came in, they stopped supplying anything but warranty replacement parts for the 26 inch Five, as soon as the 650b one was launched.
mikewsmith - Member
Also the poster was suggesting that due to the simple design they are less prone to failure. They suffer the same as other bikes.
An Orange-5's bearings will take the same punishment as an FSR design but when it comes to replacing bearings it is much cheaper and easier on a single pivot design.
This is a link to the bearings for an Orange-5's single pivot:
http://www.onlinebearings.co.uk/Orange-5-Pivot-Bearing-Kit-O5P.html
(£5.50 if the link doesnt work.)
Try finding a bearing kit for an FSR for a fiver!
If you're going to ride the bike through muddy, gritty, wet winters then this ease and cost effectiveness starts to appeal.
I know Orange aren't the value of the likes of canyon et all, but I did a quick run through of a build buying a frame only & a Pro build, and didn't get it any cheaper even using online bargains (let alone find 120mm Pikes).
TBH frame bearings don't really make a dent in the overall cost of riding, difference between my fsr-bike and my orange is just pennies per ride and maybe an extra hour's labour a year. I like that it's one less thing to faff with though but the real world impact is nowt.
(and if you put those £5.50 bearings into it, you're still probably going to be changing bearings frequently...)
Nah, that's where we came in, they stopped supplying anything but warranty replacement parts for the 26 inch Five, as soon as the 650b one was launched.
You mean like every other manufacture then. Do you still think jungle stock old swingarms for old style hecklers, no, they'll have a few knocking around for the last 26 inch models before the 650b came out for WARRANTY only purposes, just like Orange do.
Again if they can't replace the part under warranty, because it's nearly 3 years old, they will upgrade you to the latest and greatest frame, again just like every other manufacturer.
Rik - MemberYou mean like every other manufacture then.
Nah, many manufacturers will supply parts out of warranty. Orange used to in fact. Trek do it, Specialized do it I think, and yes Santa Cruz do it. Not ancient ones, but reasonable timescales. Even little companies like Cotic and Last do it, or mailorderists like YT. People had conniptions when Lapierre stopped doing it the other year.
Selling a bike on Friday and withdrawing parts support for it on monday is not cool no matter how you slice it. But I give Orange extra points off considering they make all their parts inhouse in short runs anyway.
I've got to admit though, it probably is the type of bike I want/need (what I really want is a T129 that doesn't get criticised for being noddely, bring back the old skool Quad swingarm!). I'm just not that much a fan of bikes that bias your weight foreward by having long stays, I'd rather short stays and a long top tube and shift my own weight.
Long front centre (handlebar position) effect on weight distribution is a myth. BB location relative to wheelbase is what's important.
I'd rather have a 450mm rear centre than 420mm (medium bike). The latter just means poor front grip on flat turns, crap tech climbing and other issues. It makes far more sense to improve technique at slow speed tight cornering than fundamentally compromise a bike.
I know Orange aren't the value of the likes of canyon et all, but I did a quick run through of a build buying a frame only & a Pro build, and didn't get it any cheaper even using online bargains (let alone find 120mm Pikes).
I did the same thing a while back and it came out at about £400 cheaper from memory. Of course things may well have changed, but Orange were charging roughly RRP on all of the components.
As expected the Gyro has been dropped off the Orange website...
fancy the new Crush, doesnt appear to be available in Frame only tho...
The segment wasn't either initially, but appeared a day or so later