[Closed] New Orange Bike due to be launched next Tuesday

Its not a strong reaction its a 'new release. Oh same old'.

Hamsterly forest

Hora, I meant Orange in general rather than just the new/not new release.

When Peat won his WC he used a heavy old DH bike on a course more suited to enduro machines....

V10 carbon wasn't it?

Incidentaly, wasn't the 224 the lightest production DH bike at the time?

or make it pedal better in the rough. Or even just complex single pivot like Orange did themselves with some of the 225 protos and the Blood, and change the leverage on the shock.

I seem to remember they admitted that the leverage ratios they ended up with were nigh on identical to what they could get from the simpler design.

And on most designs those links are there to stiffen the rear as much as change the suspension rate, and Oranges definately don't need stiffening!

Hooli- oh right/not really noticed that - you must admit though the downtube/swing arm is quite agricultural- sticks out a fair bit. For good or bad.

thisisnotaspoon - Member

I seem to remember they admitted that the leverage ratios they ended up with were nigh on identical to what they could get from the simpler design.

Yeah, they ended up with a clever fix for the dh bike. Not just effective, but in keeping with the brand too. And it suits their design- you'd not really want to pierce a normal tube but with a folded spar, why not? Hope someone got a payrise.

And then dicks on the internet said "It's just another 222" 😆

Why weren't people (hora) hopping up and down with fury 8 (yes, EIGHT) years ago when the Five frame was £1100 with a Manitou Swinger shock? A £400 increase in 8 years for a frame with a much more advanced/expensive shock, Maxle rear end etc + inflation doesn't seem OTT to me?

The comparison with SC doesn't count either because the price difference is ~£150.

Shhhhhhhh Davey, this lot don't like information like that. The main price hike in the Orange range came when the value of the pound fell so the cost of the groupsets went up.

I have an Orange (actually, I have 4) and like it very much. My mate has a Specialized Camber Evo, I prefer my 5 29.

Orange do what they do and people buy them. When they do something different (Blood, ST4, etc) people do not buy them. If you don't like Orange, don't buy one.

When they do something different (Blood, ST4, etc) people do not buy them.

I know, i picked up my ST4 dirt cheap and it rocks, 100mm, long, low, slack, proper wheels....

Shhhhhhhh Davey, this lot don't like information like that.

Sorry. Also forgot about licensing from SRAM for the Maxle.

Eight years ago? A Heckler was 899-1,100 back in 2004-2010. I know as I bought one then. In rootbeer...

that you bought off me two years later 😉

That I sold after 2 rides 😉

hora - Member

 Eight years ago? A Heckler was 899-1,100 back in 2004-2010. I know as I bought one then. In rootbeer...that you bought off me two years later

Thought you didn't buy new frames?

In this ever changing world, it's good to know that on STW, somethings stay the same ...

... and hora 'bashing' Orange Bikes is one of them ! 🙂

hora - didn't you once buy a Five frame new? Was it before or after you bought that new Turner? 😉

Most of my mates down here in south wales want Orange bikes or have them, simple, no nonsense bikes that take an absolute beating.

Ive just sold my 1 year old Spesh Stumpy Evo as i was fed up of breaking it and replacing stuff that's just simply not made for this country. 8 pivots, stupid PF30 BB and a rear triangle that I cracked twice (chain and seat stay).

Cant wait to order an 26" Alpine, does that make me even more weird?

I owned one for less than a month. I royally hated it. By contrast I liked the shorter TT of the 08 Patriot that I owned later.

Still no where near a decent Santa Cruz though.

chestrockwell - Member

Orange do what they do and people buy them. When they do something different (Blood, ST4, etc) people do not buy them.

Blood did have genuine issues mind, even Orange didn't seem to really know who it was for... version 1 with the dh standards didn't make much sense, v2 probably came a bit too late, both had pretty conservative geometry... Straight standard steerer too I think?

Agreed Northwind but the ST4 was well received, neither looked like a 5 + or - as seems to be the complaint now and neither lasted long.

I think the ST4 looked great, orange should reinvent that.

Yep they should definitely bring back the st4 awesome bike that !

Northwind, what were the genuine issues with the Blood? Not being argumentative, just interested. I bought a Blood because at the time (5 years ago) it was ahead of the game, low and slack without loads of travel but with a bit of rear bounce to save my ankles and feet. Still have it and in fact this evening have stripped to have the bearings changed and the frame re sprayed back at the factory (apple green because I never see many green bikes). Not an Orange fanboy but did have a 224 before I smashed myself to pieces and do have a lot of bikes but for me (at the moment at least) the Blood is a keeper.

St4 - 1x specific, short chain stays, low and slack geo, 120-130mm fork up front, zip up and fly down. A solo for people that don't want a solo.

I <3 my 5

The ST4 didn't sell as it was the same weight as the Five but less travel

St4's rock. It's the 5's underrated, unloved, overlooked little brother. I'm faster on mine than I was on my five.

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The ST4 didn't sell as it was the same weight as the Five but less travel

Going from a 2008 16" old five to an 18" 2012 ST4 I lost about 1lb in weight. Build was identical otherwise.

Same year 5 weighed the same as same year ST4

Suits me. I paid £300 for a practically unused 2012 frame. Fives go for at least double that

edoverheels - Member

Northwind, what were the genuine issues with the Blood? Not being argumentative, just interested

I think its main issue was just its confused nature... Original version was all downhill parts, sold as a slopestyle/big hit bike but they wanted to market it for trails riding too, having a freeride and an AM version was weird. 150mm rear axle at a time when the 224 had a 135. And not really that slack or long, especially after the Patriot 66. Oh and a 1 year warranty to cap it off.

I loved the idea... If the v2 had a 2 inch headtube I'd probably have one tbh (for modern forks and a headangle thinger). There was a more balls-out Strange version that never made the cut, shame.

The ST4 didn't sell as it was the same weight as the Five but less travel

Getting back on topic 🙂 isn't this the danger with the Segment. It's unlikely to weigh much less than an Alpine Five, but has less travel.

I guess this is why I'm so surprised by the chainstays. I know one shouldn't be too concerned with a single number, but a shorter travel 29er with <440mm chainstays would be a different proposition to the Alpine Five.

I'd love to know why they decided to stick with 550mm chainstays. Is that as short as they can go? It's only 5mm less than the Alpine Five, despite having 30mm less travel.

Maybe they tried it with shorter chainstays, but just preferred the way it rode at 550mm. In which case, kudos to them for ignoring fashion and sticking with what they think feels best, but it does still make it hard to see why you wouldn't just go for the longer travel Alpine Five.

What's really weird is that he wheelbase for the 19" Segment appears to be longer than the 19" Alpine Five, despite the latter having a longer fork, slacker head angle, longer chainstays and the same effective top tube. Maybe there is a misprint in the geometry tables?

I like Orange bikes (although I'm no fan boy), and have owned an Alpine 160 for 2 years and can't fault it for it's intended use compared to other bikes. The geometry is absolutely spot on and it pedals as well and any of my friend's multi pivot bikes.
There are lighter bikes and there are bikes that climb better but I haven't found a similar bike that descends any faster.

I never run the Pro-Pedal on and it doesn't pogo around at all.
I agree that decent shocks have probably saved single pivot bikes and that some/many people don't/won't like how they ride but they suit me.

I agree that they're not cheap and the build kits certainly aren't very good value for money. But there are a lot of (very) old 5s and Patriots out there still being ridden hard and they still hold their value in the 2nd hand market.

I tried a 5 and liked that as well. I don't think they're particularly ugly although I think the 5 style swing arm looks a lot worse than the Alpine one as that isn't a big flat piece of metal. If they made the swing arm of their new bikes with the brace at the bottom they'd look better. And the down tubes on them nowadays are no fatter or noisier than many hydroformed tubes (the Transition Covert has an equally fat DT for example).

Would I buy a Segment? Maybe if I already had a DH bike rather than an AM bike as it would probably make more sense to have a short travel bike with decent geo to compliment a big bike rather than a long travel AM (Enduro) bike, especially if the trails around you aren't that steep/rough/tech, etc.

And from what I've heard on here it would probably be worth Hora trying one in the right size for more than a week or 2 before he slags them off.

Tom KP

I've never understood people buying their full builds, especially with upgrades. As has been said before in similar threads, Orange charge you pretty much the full rrp for the new part

Just having a look at the options page for the Segment Pro and that doesn't seem to be the case:

Upgrade the fork from Fox Performance to Pike £200
Upgrade rear shock from Evolution to Factory/Kashima £120
"Upgrade" brakes from Shimano to Hope £130
Upgrade wheels from Mavic to Hope/Arch Ex with Maxxis Minion/High Roller £150
Upgrade whole drivetrain to SRAM X1 11 speed £280

Seems about right me. OK, the bottom bracket and headset upgrades are only about a tenner cheaper than the CRC prices for those parts, but the original units are probably pretty cheap.

I still reckon you are better off buying a frameset and building it up yourself, but only if you don't put any value on your own time.

I bought a complete Orange bike, in a standard spec. I upgraded it and flogged or re-used the stuff I didn't want - came out pretty similar but exactly to my spec, rather than what they offered.

I don't think people get the point of this bike and are getting very hung up on the chainstay length. It's long because it's supposed to be long, as that makes it super stable at proper speeds, the bike won't sell in big numbers, they know that.

It's been designed for one reason and one reason only to be fast.

So it's designed for what [b]fast[/b] riders want (not weekend warriors etc etc), a point and shoot bike, a bike that over short distances will wipe the floor rather than being an all rounder.

Usually these bikes remain as Strange prototypes but this one they decided to release.

I don't think people get the point of this bike and are getting very hung up on the chainstay length.

To be fair, that's just me 🙂

Ah, i get it now! Segment, as in a segment from the orange fruit, plus the Strava Segment.

Awesome.

What's really weird is that the wheelbase for the 19" Segment appears to be longer than the 19" Alpine Five

OK, it looks as though that was a misprint and it's been fixed now.

Northwind, should have read your post more thoroughly. I thought you were implying functional/warranty issues. Short travel but slack fun bike with a big fork appealed but few around then. Looked at Blur 4X but not a big fork option from memory. I wanted a low bike, not a long one, I still like short stays and I'm a short arse.
I thought at the time it would be a sales disaster, heavy with limited travel and so no showroom/internet appeal. Agree when they tried to lighten it up they had missed the point.
Lots more choice around now for 'fun' bikes.

with Orange. You can't buy parts for discontinued frames frinstance, they stopped providing non-warranty replacement parts for the 26 inch Five the day they canned it.

Good job my 26" five frame only has two components then! (Front end, back end!)
...and it's not plastic! ;D

DK - Member

Good job my 26" five frame only has two components then! (Front end, back end!)

Yeah you're right, it'll be no bother at all if you break one of those and they won't sell you a replacement, you'll still have the other end 😉

I don't think people get the point of this bike and are getting very hung up on the chainstay length. It's long because it's supposed to be long, as that makes it super stable at proper speeds, the bike won't sell in big numbers, they know that.

It's been designed for one reason and one reason only to be fast.

So it's designed for what fast riders want (not weekend warriors etc etc), a point and shoot bike, a bike that over short distances will wipe the floor rather than being an all rounder.

Usually these bikes remain as Strange prototypes but this one they decided to release.

I think you've missed the point of peoples criticisms. And probably the point of the bike.

More travel = quicker on rough tracks, that's just the laws of physics.

Less travel = quicker on smoother tracks (pedals/pumps better).

The segment does appear to be designed for the weekend warrior at a trail center (as long as they can ignore the fashion for enduro/long travel bikes). A type of trail that conventional wisdom does suggest benefits from shorter chainstays as that extra stability just isn't needed. We've not ridden them yet so maybe we should be reserving jurgement, but I'm with the majority here, those chainstays look long compared to simlar bikes like the Whyte T129. I still think it's a cop-out though and that an out and out XC bike will lap the average trail center quicker than any hybrid XC/trail bike. It just might not last as long!

I've got to admit though, it probably is the type of bike I want/need (what I really want is a T129 that doesn't get criticised for being noddely, bring back the old skool Quad swingarm!). I'm just not that much a fan of bikes that bias your weight foreward by having long stays, I'd rather short stays and a long top tube and shift my own weight.

Northwind - Member
Yeah you're right, it'll be no bother at all if you break one of those and they won't sell you a replacement, you'll still have the other end

I think you missed my point... It is unlikely to break, due to the simplicity of design and manufacturing processes involved.

Also there are only two parts to the frameso chances of component failure is probably reduced when compared to a frame with several little parts

what I really want is a T129 that doesn't get criticised for being noddely

What about the new SCR model? Not seen any ride repots yet, but I thought the front mech had been sacrificed specifically to make the pivot stiffer.

DK - Member

I think you missed my point... It is unlikely to break, due to the simplicity of design and manufacturing processes involved.

They do, though- cracks through the BB shell, broken shock mounts etc, I'm not convinced the Five's an especially tough bike tbh despite reputation. And anything can be crash damaged.