I rode John the Baptist in the Surrey Hills the other day. Since the last time I rode it, someone added a few jumps on the main part of the trail, and I almost came a cropper because I wasn't expecting them there.
Someone else I chatted to said he'd almost crashed there too for the same reason. There is a separate line without jumps that goes off to the side.
What's the etiquette around new trail additions? Is that likely to have been added by random riders and not approved by the hurtwood team that maintain the trail? Should we all be doing a trial run before hitting any trail at full speed in case someone has made a change like that?
Are they official trails? If so, has the landowner or local trailbuilding group got a contact you can ask?
If unofficial then someone has decided to 'improve' them probably without permission (which if unofficial isn't likely to be caught anyway.
You could follow @hurtwood_trails https://www.instagram.com/hurtwood_trails?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw== to maybe get a heads up on official work but I always allow for unexpected changes, random people, etc on trails in the Surrey Hills or anywhere else that isn't dedicated bike park
How long since you last rode the trail? If it was a long time ago, it might have been signposted and signs disappeared overtime. But otherwise, poor form by the builder...
By convention, "easier" trails should have more difficult features off the main line and be obviously optional, whereas "harder" trails have the technical features as the main line with ride-arounds off line.
(This assumes the builders know these conventions and that the trail is "graded")
I'm not sure exactly on the status of Surrey Hills trails, they're not official but are incredibly well maintained. And all the main trails don't have surprises like this in my experience.
I last rode John the Baptist a while back, probably 4-5 months ago.
None are strictly official but a number are tolerated and the volunteer trail team have the ranger’s permission to maintain them. That does mean that features get added at the whim of the builders who will sometimes build what they want to ride rather than all abilities though Stuff does get altered in response to feedback and there should be a reasonable b line (we try).
The new jump line down on the trail down to walking bottom (rollercoaster. JtB is the top section) was, I think, built as a new alternative line with the original line turning slightly up the hill before the jumps. The issue is probably that the old line hasn’t had any love for a while and a lot of traffic is going down the new line so it’s not obvious.
I ride here pretty regularly, and got surprised by these new gaps a few weeks ago. If you're going at "trail speed" the chicken line (which is slightly uphill) it's not that obvious... I cleared one by accident on my first sight of them.
The last time I rode this line, I stopped to fix a chain issue and some walkers went past us up the trail. I told them to watch out for bikes coming down at speed. The woman said "don't worry, we'll jump gazelle -like, out of the way" hubbie said "or maybe we won't"
Recently, I've been more likely to come a cropper in a crowd of belligerent walkers than a feature. Hard to ride at "trail speed"
I’ve only been there once and I think it was supernova where in nearly ran into a young couple with a baby walking up the track. Some discreet signage would be useful.
I'm not sure signage would help. I started down summer lightening recently, one of the only trails with a sign, even a picture of a bike.
A very angry 60yr old walker told me he'd walk wherever the f he wanted, and he didn't care if it was a bike trail.
Sorry, feel like I've diverted this thread onto aggressive walkers... And just had a thought about new features.
What about a small sign like "new features ahead"? It wouldn't require full trail signage (almost all the peaselake trails are unsigned) but it might help.
I appreciate the idea- but how long should a “new feature ahead “ sign stay in place? Those jumps have been there for probably a couple of months now. I ride there maybe once every few weeks. If I saw that sign I’d think that they had changed it again… which wouldn’t be very helpful.
in general I’ve always treated SH trails like hogwarts staircases. They can change on you, and expect the unexpected. All part of what makes it fun.
We have official signage at a few places I ride that basically says there have been recent changes to the trail, take care. One location has had the sign there for the best part of ten years. The trail has been rebuilt at least 4 or 5 times, so you just ignore it.
We also have signs on another track in a relatively urban are that warns that it's black diamond, needs advanced skills, protection is recommended, etc, etc. Then on that track you have to watch out for kids on balance bikes or in one case a toddler attempting to climb back up a wooden feature in a blind spot. He could easily have been killed if a mate had been 30cm left of the line he actually took.
People don't read signs!
I appreciate the idea- but how long should a “new feature ahead “ sign stay in place? Those jumps have been there for probably a couple of months now. I ride there maybe once every few weeks. If I saw that sign I’d think that they had changed it again… which wouldn’t be very helpful.
Sign will not make it better. So much clutter on our streets as a result of that thinking. A favourite from near home - the 'new crossing' sign has been up since *before* the first time Google Streetviewed the location in 2008(!). The 'no access to...' sign is too small to be read and interpreted.
I've always thought Trailforks trail reports would be a really good way of tracking features/maintenance/trees down etc but you'd still have to review every trail on the app before you rode. It is used a fair amount in France and Spain but not reliably and how ever recent the report it can be drastically wrong. We did a huge climb (800m ascent?) in Le Montange Noir in September only to find the top third of the descent had been heavily felled and the trail was barely there. There was a report of it riding well from 2 weeks earlier.
Some discreet signage would be useful.
Probably a bit of a double edged sword as far as liability is concerned.
If you hit someone, it would be fairly open and shut that the rider was at fault for going faster than they could see was clear. There's no expectation that the trail would be clear of all other users, no bylaw banning walkers, the landowner doesn't ban walkers. You wouldn't ride on a byway and expect to get hit by a 4x4/trail bike/rally car and then be told 'well there were other bridleways you could have used instead'. Stick a sign up warning of bikes and you're encouraging bikes to go faster, and I'm not sure "discreet signage" advising walkers would be enough to pass a 'as low as reasonably practicable' test on a risk assessment if your solution to the conflict is to prohibit walking rather than encourage sensible riding. Even a one way trail at a trail center isn't a race track, there's no marshaling to tell you the trail is clear ahead whether it's a walker, a crashed rider or a wild deer.
I could be wrong here but from memory, the only sanctioned trail in the Surrey Hills is Summer Lightning. Even the triumvirate of Barrys/Yoghurt Pots/Telegraph are technically non-sanctioned.
They are however tolerated and to an extent, encouraged, by Hurtwood. This should reduce the amount of rogue builders, and a lot of the teams that maintain these trails are or were the original builders.
The other thing to bear in mind is the Hurtwood has a covenant over it allowing anyone the right to roam anywhere. Again, I could be mistaken, but it's the only patch of land in England where it's permissible to go wherever you want. This does mean that walkers can migrate up bike tracks at a whim.
Anyway, this all distracts from the original point of trail modifications without notice. Signage creates responsibility, and the responsibility in my opinion should lie with the rider.
Change helps to keep things fresh and appealing, even if it's not perfect for everyone
As I understand it there is no right-to-roam in the Hurtwood. It is a permission-to-roam, originally granted by the Bray family, which could be withdrawn at any time by the current landowners. Some of the landowners have threatened to withdraw this permission in response to large features being built on their land without their knowledge and approval.
Thought I'd add an update to this thread after spending an hour or so on the trail last Sunday. It's ideal for my 12yr old who's just getting into the gnar to learn jumps and confidence. That meant that I spent an hour dragging his bike back up to the gaps in question so the boy could ride the jumps below.
It was remarkable how many folks pulled up hard at the jumps hollering that they didn't know they were there, highlighted by the erosion to the lips on the uphill side of them, brakes being dragged through.
To be fair, the jumps are clearly visible as you come around the corner but what's less visible is the nature and size of the gaps. Quite intimidating if you're unsure of that sort of thing. I assume many felt they were just simple rollers or tables, so didn't slow down until too late.
And for a bonus point, a mum with 2yr old in one hand and balance bike in the other came walking down the trail. I mentioned to her that bikes were coming down at speed, and she duly stood to one side. Good job she did cos the 2 coming down didn't slow down in the slightest.
Bubs was very proud to tell me that dad had ridden down ahead of them. Make of that as you will.
