[Closed] More bad news fron London

Very very sad.
What is the matter this year? Why so many?
I don't recall things being so bad ever.

A 19 year old, knocked off his bike on Saturday night in Bath by some ****ing **** hit-and-runner has also died.

Maybe a lot of people taking it up over the summer, and now it's darker.. terrible though.

EDIT: saw this on that link

The fatality came as Metropolitan Police traffic officers gave road safety advice to cyclists and more than 70 lorry drivers at Vauxhall Bridge Road, Whitechapel High Street and Albert Embankment.

Good.

I may invest in some high viz.

this is getting ridiculous now.
loads of coppers out this morning and tonight waiting at the lights to chastise cyclists - two of us were last through the changing lights and I could see he wanted to have a word with us but chose to tell off another guy without a front light.
saw some massive * of a lorry driver blatantly go through a red light and I wanted to have a word but he was too high up in his cab and it would have been a bit risky.
two coppers on foot round the corner did * all about it.
had to shout at a bus driver for making a stupid move and trying to squeeze out 4 cyclists.
there's definitely something in the air at the moment...

Hopefully all the cyclists, and angry drivers, who got stopped will go home tonight and think about their behaviour on the roads, and just possibly take some more care when interacting with each other.

hopefully

there's definitely something in the air at the moment

Really? Not from my point of view. But then, I dont ride like a dick, and I don't get angry.

Stay safe, folks. Dont be a dick and ride with a clear brain.

Surely this is just cycling promotion working and getting more people out on bikes but lacking the cycling and road skills and experience to anticipate and avoid danger.... I can't see that drivers behavior has changed much.

there's definitely something in the air at the moment
Really? Not from my point of view. But then, I dont ride like a dick, and I don't get angry.

Stay safe, folks. Dont be a dick and ride with a clear brain.

Interesting you say that Flash cos I've been thinking there's something in the air in London in recent months too. Almost as if all the stories in the press normalise bad treatment of cyclists...

There is something in the air in Parliament Square, but I dunno if it's better or worse than previously.

I am thinking of changing my route.

Well, riding in town every day, I'm just not getting this 'something in the air' stuff.

Yes, the recent news is vile, and we all need to do more. But, not seeing any sort of conspiracy.

to clarify, by 'something in the air', I mean there appears to be more bad decisions being made around town - by all users of the roads - pedestrians, cyclists, motorcylists, cars, vans, lorries. everyone.

happens every year around this time as people get pissed off because it's dark and they're not home yet. this year seems especially bad.

There seems to be a disproportinate number of young women driving cars, who have absolutely no idea of road spacing,road sence,spacial interaction, and general awareness of whats happening around them on the road at the present time.

The rear view mirrors are for you to keep an eye out for what is happening behind and at the side of you, not for looking into and flicking your hair.

Oh and dont scream all sorts of abuse at me, for being infront or at the side of you, you wouldnt do it on a bus, when you loose your licence would you luv.

Interesting you say that Flash cos I've been thinking there's something in the air in London in recent months too. Almost as if all the stories in the press normalise bad treatment of cyclists...

I think there have been some terrible legal decisions when it comes to prosecuting drivers that have killed cyclists but there is no 'road wars' as some would have it.
Most drivers are v tolerant of cyclists and pretty patient. Its just that when drivers are on the phone / speeding / not indicating then the law needs to give an on the spot fine, every time. And of course riders shouldn't jump lights, listen to music, use their phones or not check over their shoulder before changing lane or channel.

something in the air? not sure...its as bad as it always seems for a month after the clocks change but it usually settles I think. I got clipped by a woing mirror in camberwell new road last week, cut up by a bus this morning....and also nearly taken out by a young lady in a corsa who anchored on and slid for over a second (behind me...I was braced for impact but thankfully she got control and missed me)... about the same as usual then.

I'm not finding parliament square any worse than normal moly, entering from millbank and exiting at whitehall, which way do you go?

In my office at least the deaths are raising the profile of cyclists, and getting some sympathy.

Although I doubt any of them drive in London. In fact, who on earth does? Obviously it's cabs, busses, and delivery people etc, but how many private motorists are there? And who are they?

I'm not finding parliament square any worse than normal moly, entering from millbank and exiting at whitehall, which way do you go?

I go from Buckingham Palace way over the bridge. So you've got to get right as you enter the square, where loads of cabbies are peeling left off the square to go left down Whitehall, then you've got to get right again through all the traffic forcing its way left down Victoria embankment, which is most of it.

The dreaded double-merge manoevre (which is bad enough in a car) twice, against the majority flow, with pepole rushing for lights, and in London with mostly impatient cabbies.

It is very sad, but remember that more pedestrians are killed in London than cyclists- about 70 per year. Why is there not an outcry about that?

loddrick todays death and I believe several of the others have been 60+ yr old blokes, I doubt they are new to cycling

causes?
some interesting data here, from what I can tell
http://www.dft.gov.uk/traffic-counts/area.php?region=London
overall motor traffic is down in london by about 20%, ever since the c-charge came in
the number of cars has reduced by 40%
the number of cyclists has nearly doubled
the number of buses has increased by 30%
the number of LGVs and HGVs has stayed the same, so by proportion the %age has increased
and I suspect that traffic speed has also increased due to reduced number of cars
and of course borris famously sped up traffic lights across london to increase traffic flow

also the data above is only up to 2012
and it certainly seems, in west London, that there is a huge construction boom going on, there is a constant stream of cement mixers and tipper trucks on my commute I would suspect that 2013 would see an increase in HGVs

either way there are a lot more cyclists around and f-all extra provision for their safety (painting the roads blue really doesnt count)

Interesting point vickypea, I'd wondered how the recent figures compared to those for pedestrians.

We need to be really careful trying to pin blame and demanding action until all the facts of these accidents are properly examined - is it bad driving, bad road design, bad vehicle design/blind spots, lack of lights on bikes, inexperienced cyclists misjudging things, over confident cyclists misjudging things - at the moment we don't know for sure.

What I fear is that if we whip an internet storm, the politicians and Police will be looking for a quick fix knee jerk "solution" to show that they are addressing the problem and we'll get some half-assed change in helmet law or something which may (and I obviously don't know) have naff all to do with the actual problem(s)

I go from Buckingham Palace way over the bridge. So you've got to get right as you enter the square

ooo, coming out of bird cage walk to go anywhere other than whitehall does look tough. you have my sympathy.

stay safe people

All good stuff above, except: I'm not getting the 'don't listen to music' thing.

Why not? Its possible to ride with earphones in at a moderate level, and still be aware of your surroundings- much more so than if in a car.

And, looking at it more blackly- if someone shoots a set of traffic lights and comes at me, what the hell can I really do anyway? I'm on a bike, I'm fairly agile, but from the reactions standpoint sight is much more important.

bus drivers discusingg cyclists on bbc, nicely unbalanced asper usual, especially the reporters introduction.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-24937699

Hearing is really useful for stuff coming from behind. Its not something that matters as much when driving a car as you're all going the same speed. I stopped wearing a thin beanie under my helmet as I didnt like the 20-30% loss of hearing.

Its your call but I think you're mad (in a nice way obviously).

your hearing is 360 degrees, your sight isn't. I'd prefer to use that extra sense.

We've done this before on here. I got accused of having something wrong with my eyes because I also use my ears.

Bonkers.

as for headphones, I can see the argument but HGVs are loud enough that even if I was listening to Slayer at max volume on my ipod Id still hear them coming!

molgrips - Member

I may invest in some high viz.

A cyclist is critical in Frenchay hospital (Bristol) after being knocked off near Frome last week. He was wearing high vis and had full lights.

vehicle drivers also seem to hit each other,horses, trees, lamposts and signs, quite often, non have ear phones on and some are stationary.

Driver and cyclist eductation and training is whats reqd,along with strict enforcemet of the road laws, with fines investe in cycling and pedestrian infrastructure, because drivers all have to walk sometimes.

Hi viz? Only this very morning a car pulled on to a roundabout that I was going around, it stopped maybe 18 inches away from me, I thought it was going to hit my leg and back wheel.

I was wearing a white helmet, with white light atop, red light behind, a white jacket, longs with densely-packed reflective spots, Hope Vision 4 on front, red light at the back, bright red and pink courier bag, also with a light, and reflective strips (although, to be fair, the driver couldn't see my back).

As I remarked at the scene "WHAT THE **** DO I HAVE TO WEAR FOR YOU TO BE ABLE TO SEE ME!!!???" ...

The best part was the other cars tooting because they were being delayed momentarily.

Sadly I also saw an utter tool weaving about on a bike through Liverpool city center tonight.
Helmet, Hig-viz & lights on a Giant city bike:
He rode through 7 red lights @ one point a pedestrian on the crossing had to jump back to avoid being hit, last I saw was him riding the wrong way down a one way street. If I could have I would have chased him down and informed him what a **** he was, but as I was obeying the lights I couldn't. I could just see the ****ish behavior was reinforcing what most car drivers think 🙁

Sadly I also saw an utter tool weaving about on a bike through Liverpool city center tonight.
Helmet, Hig-viz & lights on a Giant city bike:
He rode through 7 red lights @ one point a pedestrian on the crossing had to jump back to avoid being hit, last I saw was him riding the wrong way down a one way street. If I could have I would have chased him down and informed him what a **** he was, but as I was obeying the lights I couldn't. I could just see the ****ish behavior was reinforcing what most car drivers think

I nearly thought this was me until I read the description... 😉

The number of utter dickheads I see riding bikes after dark, no lights, or very, very feeble ones, all in black, or dark clothing, sometimes even riding no-handed just astounds me. And not just in London, where I've been twice in the last six days, but cities like Bristol are even worse. Just suicidal, many riders.
I may be terribly judgemental, but the first thing I thought when I heard about the lad in Bath, who worked in a city-centre pub, was; did he have lights and a helmet on, because it was a head injury that did for him, and I see so many riders around without either.

vickypea - Member

It is very sad, but remember that more pedestrians are killed in London than cyclists- about 70 per year. Why is there not an outcry about that?

Is it connected to the fact that there's more than 3 and a half times more pedestrians than cyclists?

but the first thing I thought when I heard about the lad in Bath

The first thing I thought about was what a waste of a young life. Then I thought about the **** that decided not to bother waiting to see the consequences of his actions...or even if the cyclist wasn't visible, at least stayed around to explain any mitigating factors...or perform some minor first aid that could have saved the lad's life...or rung the ambulance which may have arrived crucial minutes earlier.

They were the things I thought about.

Wondering whether he had lights on his bike or was wearing the "wrong clothing" was way down the list.

I may be terribly judgemental

Yes, you may very well be.

There seems to be a disproportinate number of young women driving cars, who have absolutely no idea of road spacing,road sence,spacial interaction, and general awareness of whats happening around them on the road

Generally speaking I'd have to agree, bit last night my father in law drove us to Durham - 20 minute journey. He's 55, drives a Discovery and has been driving for 30 odd years.

He managed to narrowly miss a few cars and pulled into the middle lane on top of a Luton van. It was only me shouting that stopped a collision. "Stupid **** shouldn't have been undertaking" was his only comment :'(

Spot on DD.

And,

What I fear is that if we whip an internet storm, the politicians and Police will be looking for a quick fix knee jerk "solution"

If we do nothing and suck it up, what then? Better some exposure and publicity than just accepting the death toll.

All these cyclists riding like tossers comments are probably true but I bet the percentage of such riders is very low so the chance of them adding to the statistics is next to zero. They're nothing to do with the deaths and it's pointless bringing them into the argument. If people are blowing through lights all the time as people say they do they're not going to be cycling long.

How many cyclists braking the rules of the road have killed a car driver?

It's the term "cyclist" that dehumanizes us. Would much rather son/father/daughter etc on a bike. To remind all that these are people.

A quick look at the stats for cycling deaths in London is that this year is similar to the last few years in total - not that that makes it right. If the recent 6 deaths had not happened in such quick succession we would have been heralding a reduction in numbers for 2013. If the 13 had died at the rate of about one a month nothing much would have been said in the media but 7 in 10 months and 6 in two weeks skews the trend.

I have no access to stats to see if autumn is a worse time for cycling deaths or serious injury long term. My perception, perhaps wrongly, is that after the clocks change it takes people a few days to get used to it and that includes cyclists. I have been caught out before with no lights if I have been later back then I thought or non reflective clothing.

And to follow up something JCL says above; how many cyclists have been killed riding through red lights?

Not heard of one in recent years.

In my office at least the deaths are raising the profile of cyclists, and getting some sympathy.

It's just a shame that's what it takes to get people to start thinking. 🙁

eskay - A cyclist is critical in Frenchay hospital (Bristol) after being knocked off near Frome last week. He was wearing high vis and had full lights.

I don't see the point here; hi-vis and lights won't prevent a car hitting you, they just increase your chances of being seen.

All these cyclists riding like tossers comments are probably true but I bet the percentage of such riders is very low so the chance of them adding to the statistics is next to zero.

But they're the ones people remember. I nearly went into the back of a guy on Essex Road (Islington) one winters evening while riding home. He had no lights, long dark hair, was wearing a long black coat and riding a black sit-up-and-beg.

I thought at the time 'if I can't see you on a bike, what chance does a car driver have?'

However, my point here is that was 12 years ago and I still remember it. In those 12 years I've commuted or ridden a bike nearly every day for about eight of them, so seen a lot more cyclists since that I don't remember.

I do think that the percentage of bad cyclists is going down, actually.

User removed: I didn't say suck it up, I said we need to establish the facts and identify the actual causes so they can be properly tackled.

As a cycle commuter, albeit not in London, I suck it up every day.