[Closed] Light steel or compliant/forgiving aluminum 140mm travel frames?

They all seem to be about 5-6.5lb mark

there's a reason for that 🙄 steel != light. If you want light, get aluminium, e.g the Ragley Blue Pig is 5.6 lbs, the MMMBop (aluminium equivalent) is 3.6lbs. I guess that the new CEN test for steel strength means that weight is only going to go up....

I know 🙁 Thing is alu tends to have a harsh back end in general. Theres no such thing as a forgiving alu frame?

EDIT: Edited the title of the thread with aluminum included.

Just "make" some flexion plates in the seat and chainstays and you'll get a nice compliant ride.

Judging by the size of you hora you must be about 15 stone, why whinge about a couple of lb??

Get a frame with a long seatpost and a long toptube, that'll give you a little more comfort. Or get a softail. Or just get a full suspension bike

It's odd to me that there is this gap in the market too. I don't know why folk bother with 80-100mm forks, bugger all weight saved, negligible difference in bob if you know how to pedal or can set them up right, less fun on DH.

I went custom - a colombus ss frame at 4.2lb (sliding dropouts & 20")which takes 130mm revs Ok (well they've not broken it yet).

Rides lovely and appears strong enough for me - I don't have a need for Alpines etc (Though am tempted by an mmmbop cos it's so light)

I know Thing is alu tends to have a harsh back end in general. Theres no such thing as a forgiving alu frame?

Already have the perfect full susser 😀

Just want a hardtail option for that 'fix'. wors- Im over 15stone. I want something light and zippy as a total contrast to my orange5.

Lighter the better. One of my old favourites that I loved (before I started being a gear-queer) was back in 2001 Rocky Mountain Vertex with Psylo's on. It felt great- nippy. Even if Im not nippy-it just felt great to ride.

Hora, unless you've upped your game considerably since we last rode together, I don't think you would notice the difference between a 130mm fork and a 140mm fork, so why not give the Cotic Soul another go as I think that is the lightest 130mm forked steel hardtail I'm aware of.

Yep Cotic Soul with a pair of 120mm bolt-thru forks - or a Ti456

Sounds like you want long travel over 'hooligan toughness', so get a P7, put some adj forks on it (talas 100-140?), build it up lightish and away you go. If you are riding stuff that really needs 140mm travel, then I'd get a steel frame, as a strong (overbuilt) Alu frame will tend to be a bit harsh/dull. If light is your thing, stick to 100-120mm.

I thought you had a Ti456 Hora, or did you sell it ?

as a strong (overbuilt) Alu frame will tend to be a bit harsh/dull

So are most strong (overbuilt) Steel frames...

Mike, I haven't seen you or your sunglasses for over 4yrs 😥

So are most strong (overbuilt) Steel frames...

Which is why I suggest a P7, which he'll never break. I don't know of any light/compliant 140mm Alu frames??

Let's face it - Hora rides like bambi on a bike for the first time. He's not really going to break anything - He just wants something with the right image.

[i]I don't know why folk bother with 80-100mm forks, bugger all weight saved, negligible difference in bob if you know how to pedal or can set them up right, less fun on DH.[/i]

pmsl you don't ride around FtD in body armour aswell do you?

Get a suspension seatpost and whack it on whatever frame you buy next, then when you sell the frame a couple of months later you can keep the seatpost and put it on the new frame du jour, harsh frames will be a thing of the past, unfortunately you won't be.

😉

LOL - Response of the year, KingTut

I don't know why folk bother with 80-100mm forks, bugger all weight saved, negligible difference in bob if you know how to pedal or can set them up right, less fun on DH.

100mm is perfect for the kind of riding I do.

I did break a Summer season clubber although that could to do with my weight 😆

Anyway, who gives a fudge who is core and who isnt? As long as you ride.

On the fork-front. I lifted a pair of maxle 140 Revs last night. They were silly light- I dont think you could call 100mm forks significantly light enough to warrant them being 'better' allround.

Agree with travel for the occassion- FTD etc. I rode my Orange5 on sunday with Lyriks, Swampthings etc where a hardtail would have been more than perfect. Same with riding around Calderdale and certain parts of the Lakes really.

i trust conditions are somewhat more severe than round here then.
swampthings are reserved for the worst of the seasons - its all fast and dry as a bone atm.

I know. I'd just taken a Mtn King off the rear due to multiple thorn-puntures and popped the swampthing back on.

On-One Scandal?

Longer forks mean more leverage which in turn requires a stronger frame which means more weight. The weight saving of shorter forks isn't in the fork alone 🙄

(I have some bikes with 130mm forks, 100 and 80 - all have their place)

What about the Pace 305 and Whyte's 19 and 905? All three are Alu HT's that are reported to have "all-day" rideability (is that really a word?). It's the debate I'm having myself at the moment and I'm down to a P7 or a 905...maybe.

I found my Pace 303 basically felt very similar to the On-one inbred and 456 that preceeded and succeeded it.

On-One Scandal?

The Scandal is an XC bike, it's not designed for long travel hooliganism, but it is very compliant.

jeesus, those whyte's are beautiful. Yet expensive 🙁

Kingtut, even the non-scandium Scandal? Is that still compliant? There will be no hooliganism. Just rolling down techy bits at a mild speed. No aerial or fast rolling through obstacles.

I found my 303 basically felt very similar to the On-one inbred and 456 that preceeded and succeeded it.

Except the the on-ones didn't / haven't cracked.

A fair point, KT 🙂

2nd the Cotic Soul with a pair of 120mm bolt-thru forks.

Kuco - Member

pmsl you don't ride around FtD in body armour aswell do you?

Oh FFS grow up, are you about 17?

I [i]could[/i] ride my trails on a rigid ss, but it's not as much fun...and I could ride them on an 80mm ht, but I just don't see the point, because I [i]want[/i] longer travel and see no benefit in shorter travel.

And yes I probably will wear body armour at trail centres cos I have a decent job and it's not professional to be wandering round work with avoidable pussy wounds leaking onto my suit or all scabbed up, I do fall off now and again and I'm clearly not as skilled as rad dicks like you. Not all of us are trying to prove something, junior!

clubber - Member
Longer forks mean more leverage which in turn requires a stronger frame which means more weight. The weight saving of shorter forks isn't in the fork alone

I keep harping on about this but it isn't that simple.

Which is why I suggest a P7, which he'll never break

My pal works at an AT centre which bought at job lot of P7s. Every single one of them has cracked at the head tube seat tube weld.

LOL what a cock 😆

Kingtut, even the non-scandium Scandal? Is that still compliant?

Well I haven't done a side by side comparison but what I can tell you is that my Alu Scandal is just as compliant as my Cotic Soul was, the 7046 aluminium (which is meant to have similar qualities to scandium and just as light) and some nifty tubing profiles really work well.

Indeed, it seems you are!

Can you two leave all the abuse for Hora please.

KINGTUT, what forks are you running though? I did a search on 'Scandal':

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/140-pikes-on-a-scandal

This is a first, a Hora thread that's descended into lame name calling that's not directed at Hora!

LOL

Hora is a **** face.

There you go, balance restored.

😉

I wave my private parts at your aunties, you cheesy lot of second hand electric donkey-bottom biters

Don't think they be to bothered hora one's dead the others blind.

[img] [/img]

I Fart In your general direction!

now go away or I shall taunt you a second time!

Quote (possibly) from: [i]French Juan[/i]

hora - Member
Mike, I haven't seen you or your sunglasses for over 4yrs

I know. But unless you ride harder now than you did then, you won't notice the difference between 130mm and 140mm forks and therefore can get just about any light steel frame you like cos you won't break it.

I am currently on 5 sets of Oakelys (I hear it's a topic of conversation elsewhere 🙄 ).

[i]I am currently on 5 sets of Oakelys (I hear it's a topic of conversation elsewhere[/i]

Even in the distant lands of Manchester I hear of your fondness for shades Mike 😀

My riding hasnt improved- I just dont have a fear now. I even straight-lined down DeathStar whereas before I always kinked 90degree to the left to avoid after the gully.
Plus Ive ridden Steep steep before!

5 sets of Oakleys. Pah. A mate of mine had so many sets that the shop gave him an Oakley display case for them...

I know Clubber, 5 sets is nothing (and the oldest set is probably over 10 years old). Some people seem to think it's discussion worthy though.

Hora, if the fear has gone, then your riding has improved as you were always your own worst enemy in terms of not trying stuff.

I still don't think you need a very hardcore bike though (except maybe if you go out to the Alps).

Why don't you go for a Ragley Ti or a 456 Ti?

I cant afford/warrant a ti frame as a secondbike though. Ive always wanted to run two bikes, one full suss and one hardtail.

hora-genesis alpitude? I had a soul previously and have swapped for the alpitude. not mega heavy, adjustable revs on it, pretty forgiving at the back and I weigh 16 stone. I have the original white one but this/next years model looks nice in the pics I saw on here.

Every single one of them has cracked at the head tube seat tube weld.

I'd be more worried about the head tube being welded to the seat tube in the first place...

I have a Pace RC305. I do not know how one is supposed to tell whether the frame is "compliant" while riding it with a 2.3inch tyre on the back, a huge great fork and a 2.5inch tyre on the front. But for what it is worth, it does not feel noticeably harsh. As per Clubber, previous bike was an Inbred.

Incidentally, what [i]did[/i] happen to the Ti456?

Ti456? Just didnt get on with it as my only bike. Theres a Genesis on classifields (too big- prefer medium frames) and a medium Cotic on ebay- it looks like it been used to its full potential (and too pricey).

I'd prefer to buy used. Not into spending full price for a second build.

I'm also a lardy but timid rider and for quite a few years now I've run a Cotic Soul with 85-125mm adjustable forks on it. For someone like me more travel is pretty pointless so given the Soul is light, strong and climbs well then it's pretty much perfect. Can't really see me changing it anytime soon, unless I persuade SWMBO to release the funds for a Ti version.

Grifter ?

"I'd prefer to buy used. Not into spending full price for a second build"

Sellers beware!

I mean a second built bike! LOL

I know what seth means... i gave you a bike once and you moaned. 🙂

For what its worth a steel long travel hardtail will not be much different from a long travel alloy bike. Stick some 140mm forks on a Stiffee. It wont be any different from an 853 tubed long travel hardtail.

As said above get a bike that needs a longer seatpost and longer top tube, use a shorter stem. 27.2mm seatpost size, Titanium seatpost. All things that I have found make more difference to the ride quality on the back end.

I reckon this steel thing is just a throwback to the days of a pencil thin tubed Kona Lavdome with 0 travel rigid forks and 1.8 XC tyres. Things have changed, Massive fat tyres, massive travel forks and steel frames with beefed up joints and seriously fat tubes and thicker butting to the tubes. The above things will make more difference. It seems none of this has been taken into account and steel frames are like riding beds of air if you believe all whats said, which they aint!

Change your riding position.
Let 3 psi out of your tyres.
Do some exercise that builds up your core stability.
Stop wasting other people's time and server space.

An angry Mr Agreeable earlier

[img] http://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/resources/images/994120/?type=display [/img]

Actually that's not a million miles away form how he will look in 25 years time.

alu frame and a 3" tyre.
mmmm, forgiving (but draggy)

Nor a million miles off what his Dad looks like 🙂

I reckon this steel thing is just a throwback to the days of a pencil thin tubed Kona Lavdome with 0 travel rigid forks and 1.8 XC tyres. Things have changed, Massive fat tyres, massive travel forks and steel frames with beefed up joints and seriously fat tubes and thicker butting to the tubes. The above things will make more difference. It seems none of this has been taken into account and steel frames are like riding beds of air if you believe all whats said, which they aint!

Perhaps, some of us like lifght bikes though (and have teh skilz to ride them, eh Kuco?)

Clubber, dunno about the facial hair, but he's definitely got the scowl and the Tipperary tan. 🙂

Well I now ride 2 fully rigid 29ers, so I must have no skill.

Don't blame me you can't ride a bike, I was willing to let things go.

SE666 - my point was that yes you can achieve some similar ride characteristics by building up a heavy steel frame with heavy wide tyres etc, but you add alot of weight that many do not need.

Kuco - I can out-ride you any day. I wasn't holding on, only yanking your chain, thought you might get the joke.

You don't even know me you assume I'm 17 (way off) you have no idea of what bikes or type of riding I do or capable of. You come over as a complete **** imo but then again you are a lawyer. Post what you like I just can't be arsed it's late and your boring me now.

LOL Even a lawyer is entitled to his opinion! Dont get so heated up Kuco.

Have I got this right Hora, you are looking for a frame that is light, strong and cheap, with a bit of compliance thrown in while we're at it? Hmmm.

Kuco, you assume I am ango-saxon 30-something Engineer living in Bedford in a house share when in fact I am a Maritime Pilot of African-Eurasian descent currently working in the Red Sea 🙄

James- if you found one. Let me know 😉

Kuco, you assume I am ango-saxon 30-something Engineer living in Bedford in a house share when in fact I am a Maritime Pilot of African-Eurasian descent currently working in the Red Sea

Whereas we know you're a anglo-east european cross-dressing tea-boy living rough in Chorlton Water Park. A location where you don;t need a long travel hardtail, BTW 🙂