[Closed] Leaving yer saddle height untouched throughout all of your riding

As a rule I leave it alone but that's because I have it set slightly under optimum length. When around hebden or descending in the lakes I do sometimes drop it.

Here's the Danish xc lads on the local dh track.

Probably easier to have you seat right up on a smooth dh track than a trail with loads of roots and rocks that will catapult you over the bars if your weight is not low down. It is also much easier/possible to drop your heals.

Nobody's talking about pedals...

My local trails have a lot of short & steep ups and downs. Although I have a hardtail I considered a dropper post, as I do find it more comfortable to drop the seat a few cm for the downs.

However, I then switched to SPDs and it changes things. When riding flats, and going downhill you have to drop your heels to keep your feet in place (bouncing down my extra-rocky local trails may contribute to this point of view). Dropping heels like that means that my bum needs to be exactly where the raised seat is!

But when riding SPDs you don't need to apply technique to keep your feet on - they're attached. So I can keep my feet flat, stick the saddle in front of my crotch and blat down the short descents without having to stop.

If I went back to flats I'd want a dropper post to avoid stopping every 2 minutes. With SPDs my body/foot position isn't always optimal, but I don't have to stop.

Dropping heels is a good idea with SPD's as well. If you don't do it and do jumps and drops your feet are much more likely to twist and eject out of your SPD's at just the wrong moment. Trust me it's happened to me.

I ride XC so I never drop my saddle. I am faster than most people who do drop their saddles and talk about how its gnarly and has drops.

Remember you are probably riding XC which is as much about the ups and flats as the downs. If you're riding downhill or FR then of course drop your saddle.

If I went back to flats I'd want a dropper post to avoid stopping every 2 minutes. With SPDs my body/foot position isn't always optimal, but I don't have to stop.

Then you start moving your properly in spd's and your back in the same situation. Drop heels a lot riding clipped for better stability and body position.

also

Dyed in the wool tradutional seat post user, but mainly coz
A) can't afford a dropper

B) wouldn't want the extra weight

C) hate anything that is unreliable

D) needs loads of maintenance

Remember you are probably riding XC which is as much about the ups and flats as the downs. If you're riding downhill or FR then of course drop your saddle.

I used to stop and lower my saddle before descents, but it just interfered with my flow, maaaan. .

That's why dropper posts are so good - no need to stop for the little ups and downs.

Watching the olympics I was surprised by the seat height of most of the riders - quite low I thought. As in, probably 5-6 inches of space between their bum and the seat when stood - certainly more than I have with my seat at max extension. I'm not sure whether this was a compromise position or whether that is genuinely the most efficient pedalling position.

I used to be a "I don't need to lower my post for anything" type of rider (and I didn't really). But having subsequently been to the alps for the last umpteen years and getting a uppy downy post I now can't stand to have the thing up. You get so much more movement with it down, much easier to jump as well.

ThinkI've only ever lowered my saddle for riding once in 20+ years - descent of Snowdon. Was pretty pointless as it didn't make me feel more in control .

In my opinion if your bike fits you right,you should be able to get your bum right of the back of the saddle without dropping it.

Great post.

You can ride pretty much everything trail centre and general riding without putting the saddle down. It's just people read about doing it as there is such a mindset of 'following' in biking. I am the same as you - coming back to biking after a few years out and have been out a few rides. I am riding with my saddle in a fixed position, maybe a bit lower than the traditional XC position, but if you look not only at pro XC riders but also most top roadies their saddles are lower than you might expect.

I have found you can ride well without losing efficiency with the saddle a good bit lower than normal and thus not have to feel the need to drop it for technical stuff.

A lot of people I see dropping their posts low tend to ride the steep technical bits very slowly. If you attack them, look ahead and use a bit more flow you won't need to sit on your back tyre.

I wish there could be a discussion on this forum without the patronising and put-downs. People here get so worked up about things, and the basic point of discussion gets lost.

somafunk - Member
A few years ago i sat the Trail Cycle Leader exam then quickly followed it up with the Mountain Bike Leader exam and the instructors at the time tried to batter into me the importance of dropping the seatpost for difficult sections but i had a major disagreement with them regarding this as surely on a ride when your blatting along and you come to a downhill or drop-off section of trail you do not have the time nor stopping distance to halt and drop your post before carrying on, you have to learn how to get your arse over the back of the saddle and feel comfortable and confidant adjusting your body position as you see fit dependant on the trail conditions - where is this rant going?, i dunno really but if you feel the need to drop your saddle every time you come to a tricky section then perhaps you should learn or get taught some basic bike handling skills rather than rely on a dropper post or waste time by dropping it manually.

I've recently returned to biking after 4 odd years off the bike (past 2 months riding) and last week i was held up at kirroughtree as there was folk on full suss Lapierre's and one Giant dropping their posts on the trail before descending Talnotry hill, it's a friggin trail centre for christ sake, there is now't on that trail worthy of dropping a seatpost for, i've took kids of 10yrs old round sections of the red and black, including Talnotry Hill and Hyssing Syd and they're on 24" wheels, by the end of a session they all managed to ride everything without incident with their seatpost in the usual riding position.

Perhaps on a true wilderness ride you may need to drop your seatpost and i understand this, hell... I've done it myself descending from hills i'm unsure about but every trail centre course is designed to be ridden at speed, that is why they can be graded in such a way as red or black etc.

Personally none of my bikes have a quick release seatpost clamp and i discourage my mates to drop their seatposts - learn to ride with a saddle in the correct position as you don't know what the trail will throw at you, i guess this doesn't apply to the jumpy crowd but then again they would have the confidence and the balls to ride anything anyway.

I still miss TJ.....

A lot of people I see dropping their posts low tend to ride the steep technical bits very slowly. If you attack them, look ahead and use a bit more flow you won't need to sit on your back tyre.

This is contrary to what I've seen and experienced. Dropping your saddle means you don't need to sit on your back tyre because you've lowered your centre of gravity. Following riders with high saddles along humpy pumpy sections of trail I've noticed how slowly they have to ride because they don't have the leg range to absorb and pump the rollers.

Good video. I'd be happy riding everything apart from the gap around 4 mins in! Video example to some of the 'gnarr' types here how good skills can see you over decent obstacles.

GEDA - Member
Here's the Danish xc lads on the local dh track.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc8aLS4uKa8

Probably easier to have you seat right up on a smooth dh track than a trail with loads of roots and rocks that will catapult you over the bars if your weight is not low down. It is also much easier/possible to drop your heals.

I ride slower with the saddle all the way up. Don't like the feeling of it hitting you in the arse, I've had a few otb's thanks to that. Normally just leave mine all the way down now and stand up for pedalling..

Ok OP. What happens when you try riding with the saddle down?

Nothing really. I can still ride the same. I do feel a bit 'safer' on the bike on technical bits, but for me I'd rather know I can do it all without making adjustments to the bike.

imnotverygood - Member
Ok OP. What happens when you try riding with the saddle down?

I have a Gravity Dropper.
Tried it on my rigid 29er & FS.
Seems to make more sense on the FS.
I find it a faff TBH, but those Reverbs look good where its just a bar lever & theres no having to weight the saddle to make it work.

Never mind this dropper post lark, yunki has the right idea for the ultimate accessory- retractable bollocks. If I had these it would have saved me a good deal of pain over the years and doubtless made my descending a lot braver than it is now. I suppose we could take up sumo and learn to massage them back inside the body!

It really does depend how you like to ride. If you just want to hold on and hope for the best like the lads in that video then thats fine. If you want to have a bit more fun on the jumps and the drops then put your seat down.

If you attack them, look ahead and use a bit more flow you won't need to sit on your back tyre.

to me the the physics of this don't make much sense, and are certainly not in line with any personal experience.. you simply can't get a good attack position for a steep rough descent with a raised saddle..

If I'm descending on a steep trail, saddle up, and I encounter, rocks, big roots or boulders, then my centre of gravity is too high up and towards the front of the bike due to the angle of the trail (unless I have put my arse behind the post..

With your weight high and forward there is little you can do if said boulder, rock or root kicks the rear of the bike up.. if you're not over the back, then unless you're crazylegs crane or have go go gadget extendo arms to redistribute your weight, you'll get a saddle in the butt and as likely as not an OTB..

I've only read a few posts on this thread so appologies if I'm repeating others, but I just don't get the argument that if you drop your post you're somehow lacking in skill or technical ability; specifically the comments that glasgowdan copied in his post above.

Firstly it's a matter of preference. But secondly when you compare XC and DH you have two completely different disciplines requiring different bike setups. You can't possibly argue that a pro DH rider could do what they do with a tall post if they were just a little better. Nonsense.

A dropper post allows those with the inclination to mix up different trails without stopping. It's a matter of preference as noted above but I'd not leave home without one. I've just returned from a ride with a nice big hole in my knee where I got a jump wrong on a fairly technical decent, wouldn't call it a full on DH but it's as close as we get where I live. The damage proves that I'm still a long way from having the ability I'd like to have but I'd like to see someone ride that with a tall post with anything close to agression or speed - would doff my cap so to speak. I'd never do it 😳

Good post GD.

Certainly seems to be a touchy subject this.

Certainly seems to be a touchy subject this.

you wouldn't think that it would really matter though would you..? Is it the old brigade fiercely clinging to tradition again..?

there were mentions earlier in the thread of riding pedigree and experience.. 😆

When I were a lad we all had wooden teeth and our legs were ground off to stumps before we were even allowed to [i]look[/i] at a bike.. I still rode up the north face of the Eiger in just my grandad's longjohns with nothing more than a kiss from my sweetheart to keep me safe..
never did me any harm..

You cannot ride a bike as effectively on DH tracks with the seat at pedalling height. End of story.

If you ride xc, crack on, but don't pretend it makes no difference when it comes to DH and jumps.

Hadn't dropped my seat on descents for 10 years or more,then I bought a dropper seatpost...Still don't need to drop it,it's just more fun with the post out of the way as you chuck the bike about more.....
Only got one on the one bike,so I'm stilly nearly as 'ardcore as all you lot who think it's beneath you to drop it,no doubt you all ride rigid SS's too,I do that well..... 8)

yesiamtom - Member

Remember you are probably riding XC which is as much about the ups and flats as the downs.

Sounds like as good an advert for a dropper post as I've ever heard tbh 😉

if they can get a dropper to a decent weight (sub 400g) I'll have one like a shot...oh and one that works.....and doesn't get sloppy....and works in foul gritty conditions....bugger 😥

Many views expressed here are a joke.

*goes and sticks a 500mm post in his BMX*

You can't go as fast down rough tracks with the saddle up high, because the rocks and what have you kick the back end of the bike up into your knackers and throw you over the bars. Dropping the saddle a bit gives you that extra room to maneuver your body and soak up some of the hits.

Unless you're happy to mince down descents taking a ball bashing or you've worked out a way to defy physics I can't see why it would be preferable to leave the saddle up 🙂

You guys should try riding a cross bike. Then when you go back to a mountain bike you'll realise dropping the seat is a luxury. LUXURY!

Another non-seat-dropper here. I guess I rarely ride anything that really needs it.

tazzymtb - Member

if they can get a dropper to a decent weight (sub 400g) I'll have one like a shot...oh and one that works.....and doesn't get sloppy....and works in foul gritty conditions....bugger

Not so far off it tbh... Gravity Dropper Turbo is 440g for a 75mm one I think, and mine's survived 3 years of constant Scotland. Mine has a bit of play now but then it's old and well used, new shims would sort it (not unreasonable after years of use and only one service)

Gravity Dropper Descender- ie nonremote version- is sub-400g but the weight difference to get the lever is too small for the handicap IMO

I think we'll see a lightweight,short, unreliable post first though- someone's bound to knock out a race day xc post sooner or later for people who don't care if it needs serviced every time you use it. After all, we've already seen them used in the XC Eliminator races (but only by notorious mincer Brian Lopes I think, who probably just needs to learn to ride a bike 😉 )

I can't be bothered faffing around dropping my saddle, if it gets steep I just get off the back, what's hard about that?

You can't go as fast down rough tracks with the saddle up high, because the rocks and what have you kick the back end of the bike up into your knackers and throw you over the bars. Dropping the saddle a bit gives you that extra room to maneuver your body and soak up some of the hits.

Unless you're happy to mince down descents taking a ball bashing or you've worked out a way to defy physics I can't see why it would be preferable to leave the saddle up

Maybe for some, the time spent changing the saddle height at the top of the descent and again at the bottom, means if they "mince" there way down they are still quicker? For most riders, most riding doesn't actual involve descents where time spent descending makes it worth the bother.

As for weight 400grams!!! get it down sub 250 and then we can start talking, 1lb just for a tube to stick a saddle on!!

As for weight 400g!!!

I was using this as a reasonable starting point. Personally for a dropper post I'd like a moon on a stick, but the bike it would be going on is a light(ish) weight loony hardtail so it's not a massive difference.

my racey bikes will stay weenie light and fixed post height though 😀

As for weight 400grams!!! get it down sub 250 and then we can start talking, 1lb just for a tube to stick a saddle on!!

Personally I don't GAF about 400g it's not worth worrying about. Having my saddle in the right place all the time however is worth a lot

I can't be bothered faffing around dropping my saddle, if it gets steep I just get off the back, what's hard about that?

Getting stuck behind the saddle? no weight in the front wheel and it washes out? Back is not always the correct position to be in, down is sometimes better.

This comes from a long tome riding and never bothering to lower my post

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/never-drop-saddle-but-want-dropper-seatpost

My feeling is that it was money well spent, I cant feel the weight differance at all

mrmo - Member

get it down sub 250 and then we can start talking

You want a dropper post to be lighter than a Thomson Elite? That sounds realistic...

The weight difference between a decent dropper post and a decent standard post is less than the difference between a race tyre and an everyday tyre. Do you ride around on Sworks sausageskins all the time to save 200g?

Personally I don't GAF about 400g it's not worth worrying about. Having my saddle in the right place all the time however is worth a lot

But i do GAF about the extra weight and can't be arsed with the extra maintenance, the extra hassle, having to fiddle with something. I ride a bike to ride a bike, I don't ride a bike as some extension of a WI meeting, for discussing the latest component on my bike, how rad i am, etc.

Different people, different reasons for riding, neither is right, neither is wrong.

Honestly i suspect dropper posts will fall out of fashion, some will stick with them others won't, cycling is incredibly fickle about components, about supposed upgrades.

You want a dropper post to be lighter than a Thomson Elite? That sounds realistic...

and a Thompson is hardly a light seatpost is it?

Wonder why a number of XC bikes come with cut your seat-tube, or similar setups for the seat post.

I have three settings: seat post up when riding along the road and anything else boring and time consuming. Then when I arrive at the "play area" - the woods I usually put my saddle down to a medium height so I can still sit down on it and pedal - not very efficiently, but hey. And finally completely slammed for jumps.

Thing is I ride a SS so the saddle is probably my least used component.

I could ride everything I do with the saddle up - as I asssume we all could.
however the optimum saddle height for pedalling is not the same as the optimum height for descending.
I have a dropper post and am unconcerned about the weight or looks penalty.

mrmo - Member

and a Thompson is hardly a light seatpost is it?

Nope, but it's a sensible benchmark. You're as well asking for frames that weigh nothing as you are dropper posts that weigh 250g.

Nope, but it's a sensible benchmark. You're as well asking for frames that weigh nothing as you are dropper posts that weigh 250g.

but one persons idea of sensible isn't necessarily the same as someone else's?

For some people they might make sense, but it really depends on why you ride.

Those bleating about the weight of a dropper post on XC bikes are missing the point, they're generally not intended for use in this category....you should be able to ride everything on a XC ride with the saddle up.

Dropper posts are intended for AM bikes and the burgeoning gravity enduro scene, there is a reason why the top enduro riders all fit dropper posts and why DH bikes have the saddle tucked out of the way....shifting bodyweight in an exaggerated fashion on a quick/steep/techy descent is easier with the saddle out of the way....its not essential but it it depends how easy and fast you want to make it for yourself.

I have a 140mm FS with a standard seatpost and i can ride everything i want to with the saddle up....but when i enter a gravity enduro (or the FoD mini-DH earlier in the year) i fit the dropper post because speed counts and its so much easier.

mrmo - Member

but one persons idea of sensible isn't necessarily the same as someone else's?

Really not sure what you're trying to say there... Saying something is a good benchmark isn't a recommendation, it doesn't need to be the right post for everyone for it to be a useful comparison point 😕 That's kind of the entire point of having a benchmark.

this is when a dropper post would come in handy

What I like most about that vid is the ever-helpful guy with the old frame. That, and the feller with course tape wrapped round his head

Classic video, i like this one too in a similar theme:

Yeah, to be fair in the Ae one I reckon the only way dropper posts would have helped would be if you got about 5000 of them and resurfaced that corner with them

I struggle with long sentences, but my 2p worth is that I don't think of my reverb as a 'dropper' post. It spends most of it's time dropped, and only gets raised for big ol' climbs. It just eliminates faffing at the top and bottom of trails, which I can't stand, as once we stop, it's never just drop the saddles and carry on, there's always a chatting to be done, and before we know it, 20-30 mins have passed!

Raiser posts ftw.

Raiser posts ftw.

ooh, nice! I might be tempted by one of those..

In fact, if people start using this new standard, I might just wait til all the cheap dropper posts come on sale in the classifieds and see if I can convert one.. 😀

You got-to-have-a-dropper-post boys are funny!

Why so defensive?

You got-to-have-a-dropper-post boys are funny!

Why so open minded?

FTFY

Enjoyed those last 2 videos! Its about cornering for me, you can't weight the bike up to its maximum without being able to move freely. Google finds this pic, which i think demonstrates it:

[img] [/img]

You corner and go downhill faster with the saddle down. Yes you still may be beaten to the bottom by a better rider with their saddle up, but if said rider put their saddle down it'd be by a greater amount!

Really not sure what you're trying to say there... Saying something is a good benchmark isn't a recommendation, it doesn't need to be the right post for everyone for it to be a useful comparison point That's kind of the entire point of having a benchmark.

To me Thompson isn't a benchmark, just overhyped and overweight. That is my point, if you want an XC benchmark then pick something that is relevant. try a KCNC at sub 200grams

Well not reading the argument above. Until recently bouncy seat tending to stay lowish, and I'd stand a lot to climb. New build has a dropper.

long travel hardtail it stays in medium position and much of the time I leave it there, and XC bike its up and it stays up, part of the bike for me. that said I am fancying a dropper for the 456 - will depend how much of a game changer I find it once I get the new bouncer finished.

Depends where / how you're riding as well, around gentle hill no need to change it much, but with sharp techy downs and long grindy ups I do tend to give in and start adjusting it. But I hate the constant stopping of doing it so prefer to avoid if poss.

Some folks will argue about [i]anything.[/i] A benchmark doesn't have to be the best, it just has to be a well known, well understood quantity to compare other things against.

Some folks will argue about anything. A benchmark doesn't have to be the best, it just has to be a well known, well understood quantity to compare other things against.

Agreed, but it has to be relevant and Thompson isn't for most.

it has to be relevant and Thompson isn't for most.

err.. this is STW

are you new..?

Jeez, is there nothing that can't get argued about on here?

are you new..?

i was here before stw, back in the gofar days,

And i have never understood the love in with thompson, Chris King and certain other brands

I guess dropping the saddle becomes less necessary if you're riding low-tech XC. But for general trail or mountain biking it's a necessary part of good bike handling. Ok maybe it wasn't done 20 years ago but riding technique is far better understood these days.
I was taught it on a skills day by a professional coach.

If you just want to ride low-tech, then saddle up is ok but if you want to:
Pump
Manual
Front-wheel lift
Bunnyhop
Drop heels
Jump
Stand on the outside pedal in corners
Nail berms
Steep techy descents

Then saddle down is essential to get the technique right.

Riding actively, moving your bike around/moving yourself around the bike, you need saddle down and out of the way.

Obviously, back up again for the climbs

Seat dropper here although today I didn't bother. I'm not looking forward to sitting down...

Interesting that folk who need to drop their saddles seem a bit threatened by those who don't...

Nope I don't.

Ya know, this thread is really missing its GW input.

chortle @ Northwind, his thread-radar must be broken.

brooess - Member

I guess dropping the saddle becomes less necessary if you're riding low-tech XC. But for general trail or mountain biking it's a necessary part of good bike handling. Ok maybe it wasn't done 20 years ago

NOOB!

It's a stupid idea! Up for uphill and down for down.
With a fixed post you have to find a happy medium so you can still pedal and get behind the seat.
you can have your saddle 2/3 inch's higher with a dropper,
you cannot ride a steep/tech switchback with the seat up your ass.
Fact ask Jedi.

NOOB!

[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympic_games/world_olympic_dreams/9237920.stm ]Even Mr Absalon drops his post sometimes[/url]

brooess - Member

If buying your first MTB in 1994 and nearly 20 years' experience counts as noob then so be it

You're only a noob for presuming you know what went on 20 years ago. People have been dropping seatposts since the mid 80's - products even existed to make it easier:

[img] [/img]

I guess dropping the saddle becomes less necessary if you're riding low-tech XC.

such as?

But for general trail or mountain biking it's a necessary part of good bike handling. Ok maybe it wasn't done 20 years ago but riding technique is far better understood these days.

yes it was but it was a QR and maybe a hi-rite, some stuck with it, others came to the conclusion it was more hassle than it was worth. Which as said, i suspect will be the fate of the telescopic seatposts.

I was taught it on a skills day by a professional coach.

Who taught the coach?

yes it was but it was a QR and maybe a hi-rite, some stuck with it, others came to the conclusion it was more hassle than it was worth. Which as said, i suspect will be the fate of the telescopic seatposts.

Did you say this about suspension? You were wrong then too...

To be fair though, Hite-Rites are about as equivalent to modern droppers as flexstems are to suspension forks. Even Joe Breeze gave up on them and got a gravity dropper 😉

somafunk - Member
A few years ago i sat the Trail Cycle Leader exam then quickly followed it up with the Mountain Bike Leader exam and the instructors at the time tried to batter into me the importance of dropping the seatpost for difficult sections but i had a major disagreement with them regarding this as surely on a ride when your blatting along and you come to a downhill or drop-off section of trail you do not have the time nor stopping distance to halt and drop your post before carrying on, you have to learn how to get your arse over the back of the saddle and feel comfortable and confidant adjusting your body position as you see fit dependant on the trail conditions - where is this rant going?,

i dunno really but if you feel the need to drop your saddle every time you come to a tricky section then perhaps you should learn or get taught some basic bike handling skills rather than rely on a dropper post or waste time by dropping it manually.

So you chose to completely ignore the advice given by the instructor, that was a waste then!

I suppose Jedis doing it all wrong as well 😆

Maybe you should start running some skills courses, the experts could learn a lot from you.

If you just want to ride low-tech, then saddle up is ok but if you want to:
Pump
Manual
Front-wheel lift
Bunnyhop
Drop heels
Jump
Stand on the outside pedal in corners
Nail berms
Steep techy descents

damn I can do all these on a rigid steel hardtail singlespeed. If I get a newfangled machine with boingy bits and droppy wotsits I'll be a riding god!

(you may all bow down to my divinity now and I'll bestow gifts of gnarr and shred to my chosen disciples)

Northwind - Member

To be fair though, Hite-Rites are about as equivalent to modern droppers as flexstems are to suspension forks. Even Joe Breeze gave up on them and got a gravity dropper

Have you used one? Mine worked pretty well, to me that's not a valid comparison at all.

Yeah, I wish I'd kept it tbh for retro cool but it went in the bin ages ago. Really clever idea but I just never found it really worked as intended- too dependant on frame/post fit I reckon.

(my flexstem went on to a better life as a motorbike video camera mount, where it was much more succesful. Or at least, I never again impaled my balls on it)

Unless you're actually racing, please don't use the "XC racers have em up all the time" excuse!! They're not having fun, they're there to win a race at all costs that doesn't involve really any proper technical features.

Only reason I've joined this debate is I just feel some of you don't know what you're missing out on. MTBing means different things to everyone but to me it's hooning off drops, finding things to jump off, manualling the dips scaring myself etc while out in mad countryside. Permanent saddle up to me is just road riding with a varying surface..

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

some beardy bloke on a rigid bike with a fixed seatpost jut "road riding with a varying surface" 😆

Riding anything remotely interesting with saddle up is just making do when the saddle could be down makint things rather more enjoyable.

This may sound like trolling, but i genuinely believe a bike cannot be ridden properly with a saddle in your chest or stomach.