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right [WAVING WALKING STICK] i said when they first came out that they were a step backwards in bicycle design, no good will come of it, says I [PUTS DOWN WALKING STICK]
and i've proven myself right
my oldest bike is 11 years old and has got through a massive [b]TWO[/b] UN52 square taper BBs in that time. I no have 2 bikes with HTII style BB's (one Hone and one Bonty) and both seize up if the bike is left for more than a few weeks in the garage and have done since they were new.
this is less than satisfactory
will fitting BETD bearings solve this or am i going to have to own the inventors of the system with bombers. i refuse to believe that facing the BB cups will make a bobbins of difference to their longevity, they've probably done less than a few hundred wet miles each
well, if they seize up sat in the garage then facing certainly won't help.
I would say that the seals on your HTII are to blame and the fact they are not stainless steel/ceramic. Also do you use a jet washer?
I would get a better sealed BB IMHO - then the water won't get in a rust the bearings unless of course your BB shell is wonky/not faced which would probably accellerate wear but not cause them to seize?
no pressure washer. the main pivot bearings on the full sus are 4 years older than the BB and are holding up just fine
something's not right there mate, mine lasted 18 months. too much muc off maybe??
Seized bearings usually occur IME with standing after muddy rides then washing i.e. for a few weeks. Happened to my internal BB (ISIS) on my DH bike when I fet it for a while and also to my headset bearings after washing and not being ridden for a couple of weeks - the headset was rather poorly sealed IMHO.
youve torqued the cranks up too much imo.
this loads the bearings in ways they dont like, and they die rapidly.
my XT HT2 BB is on its 3rd year now
open up, stuff with sticky water-repellent lubricant of your preference
ride
repeat when grinding noise or seizing starts
I've recently done some damage to the 2 year old HT2 axle on my CX bike. However the bearings are still the original ones and still fine. Thats amost four times better than I ever got from a UN52!
Not much help, I know, but maybe the bearings are picking up on your negative vibes? 🙂
torques are all to spec with a torque wrench
i do use mucoff but every other bearing on every other spinny roundy bike part on all 12 of our bikes is fine
Yes, Don't overtighten the pre-load and have them apart every year for a clean and grease.
I still only got to 2.5 years before the drive side bearing rusted out.
If you replace the bearings and the original failure was due to seal failure.... well it may fail quickly again unless the new bearings have additional sealing.
New bearings might not be built for low speed/cycling type work so it might be worth having them apart and packing them full of a suitable grease too.
The BETD bearing will un-doubtedly be better spec but it'll cost me £40 to do both bikes (although they are doing free fitting at the moment)
Hey. what size of bearings do you need?
Is that your super duper bearings Kaesae?
are kaesaes bearings the ones that are better than anyone else's at a fraction of the cost?
are kaesaes bearings the ones that are better than anyone else's at a fraction of the cost?
Now you said that not me 😯
Anyhow they are 27x7 or 6 I believe (but cant remeber exactly), anyhow it is etched onto the bearing themself's and are in the region of £5 for a pair off the bay, pack em with decent waterproof grease and they will live for ages, actually service them once in a while and they should last indefinately..
There is no cheaper BB to run.
I had BB's giving up every 3-4 months. LBS mechanic pointed out that my SC does not have a drain hole in the BB shell so accumulated water sits there and seeps into the bearings. After a wet ride and/or wash take the seatpost out and drain. Am now up to 9 months on current BB
Got a point there - however don't you have a greased central cover to prevent the water penetrating inside? Perhaps use waterproof grease inside and outside the cover?
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ok, so whipped the BB out of the Alpine and it's full of nice rusty water. Covers off the bearings and it seems to be a similar story inside, half (if not all) of the peak district is in there and it runs as rough as hell.
So new bearings it is then i guess, and speak to Dialled Mike about drilling my own drainage hole.
Are the back of the bearings not sealed at all?
How do i get the bearing out, can it be done without destroying them/damaging the cups?
brant said that drilling a 5mm drain hole in Inbred BB shells was fine.
Cartridge bearings are not actually 'sealed'. They just have plastic 'shields'.
That's why they don't last long once crap gets in there with them.
However, the HTII system does have seals, both on the plastic inner sleave (pic above) and on the inside of the crank arms, which should keep stuff out if they are assembled carefully and aren't subjected to abuse (i.e. jet washing).
Admittedly they aren't brilliant seals, but the whole system works a mile better than ISIS, and crank arms don't round off like on square taper BBs.
5mm seems a bit excessive but i've emailed Mike anyway
I see the advantages of HTII Glen but in my experience of never having any problems with square taper and having lots of problems with HTII it's just very frustrating
Just send the cups to BETD for replacement. Check there's enough grease in them and install.
i was considering getting the tool Cynic, i like tools see 🙂
The tool will help no end... But bearings are £5 on ebay, why bother with the expense? Drill your hole, make sure you lube the seals on the tube when you re fit to help them seal and it should be fine for ages, add a little extra grease into the bearing and it will be even better.
Here is a how too, you dont have to follow this directly, but it gives you a clue.
If you really want to get into it I think I got a how to on fitting grease ports into the HT11 bearings, not mine but a bloke on here has dont it and it looks brilliant.
Why bother with drilling a hole? Takes 30 secs to remove seatpost, turn bike upside down, drain, replace seatpost.
Why bother with removing seatpost, turning bike upside down, draining, replacing seatpost? Drilling a hole takes 30 secs.
the bonty (truvativ) ones are in much better shape so i've packed them with grease and refitted
the shimanos are off to BETD
Sometimes I think its only me that gets a kick out of getting the same result for less £££... 🙂
i happily saved myself £250 by fitting bearing to my washing machine, for the sake of a tenner i'd rather have it done by a professional or with the right tools if it's a more delicate thing like a (interminably unreliable) bottom bracket
capice ?
Its your money, if you can do a bearing on a washing machine, you can do a HT2, there is a how too link above.
You just spent £40 plus the messing about posting, could have done both for a tenner and not had to stand in line at the PO.. And it dont matter who makes em bearing wise, they will fail with water ingress and neglect, remember to lube up the o rings on the plastic tubes to try and hold the grime at bay for longer and under the top hats too.
It is of course, your choice.
£20, i did the bontys myself
Erm £40 for a BB repair/service + P&P - hmm does this not = a new BB?
I'd prob replace them for £10 and if it all goes wrong just get a new BB for the same price esp an SLX HTII BB?
Sorry not being picky or insulting?
I hope it lasts longer for you next time.. 🙂
read the facts foxy
anyway. my point is that if it had been a UN52 then i wouldn't even be having this conversation
I shall go and wave my walking stick and several completely un knsckered ancient square taper cranks at shimano next time i'm passing
"the shimanos are off to BETD "
Can't you do those yourself tis what I meant? Unless I am getting it wrong?
it costs £20
you are only out by 100% though so by stw standards you are well with in tolerances
Had better luck with Hope ones. They are pricey mind.
OK sorry MRMW 🙂
it's all right nick, it seems that whatever i use it'll be too expensive/cheap/uniquely crap/self serviceable/completely indestructable
probably all at the same time
fancy wales this weekend?
i remember you had trouble with BB cups and you clean your bike with individual strands of hair from norwegian virgins or some such nonsense every time it moves 🙂
I was thinking of doing HT2 BB bearing replacement service myself, but at a £5 for the bearings, say £5 for p&p I couldnt charge more than say £12 giving me a £2 profit!!! Even at the BETD price they are not exactly making loads of money on it are they..
Deore BB are only £17 now to buy outright having the benefit of new, er, everything!!
However I do think the Hone is slightly different to the other HT2's.... I will find out when I get around to servicing mine.
I have a batch of Norwegian virgin hair coming in soon. 😉
@foxyrider if you know of better bearings than SKF and INA let me know, I'm pretty sure they're two of the best in the world. I give you the choice of the best bearings in the industry and you're too deluded to understand what's on offer. You not buying my bearings is funny as you have to get yours from the industry and for all your talk you ain't got a clue.
mrmichaelwright "Are the back of the bearings not sealed at all?"
They are, but not against immersion. Big difference between splashing a seal and soaking it for days.
@kaesae 🙄 - I am sure your bearings are fine - My point is whats the point of putting decent bearings into something that is badly sealed and lets loads of muck in and wears out bearings anyway - Yes yours may last longer but in mud 'n' the like? Perhaps its better to buy a BB thats better sealed and save yourself the grief?
foxyrider - Member
Is that your super duper bearings Kaesae?
Are you sure that's your point foxyrider? Then perhaps you could explain the meaning of the above statement and the point of it?
The point is that if the bearings are properly weather proofed then it will compensate for the poor quality of the BB or other components.
Most manufacturers or distributers don't weather proof their bearings and why would they if they only last 1 year rather than 3 years they get to sell you three sets.
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How many bearings have you actually analyzed because I have evaluated the condition and the cause of their failure of thousands of bearings.
You took it the way you did because you felt I was criticising you - was just a throw away comment - chill out dude 🙂
Oh what's wrong booboo is my argument much better structured than yours. Don't try and get out of answering the questions.
What is the point of the super duper bearings comment and how many bearings have you evaluated to determine the cause of their premature demise. What's the best way to avoid them either seizing or collapsing? to ensure they last as long as possible.
Don't try and get out of answering the questions.
I just answered your question didn't I - did you just not like my answer?
was just a throw away comment
Shall I make up another meaning to my comment then - Shall I say it mean't "I love your beaings Kaesae"? or "I hate your crappy bearings Kaease"?
The real meaning was that YOU call your bearings as the best bearings in the world - My comment was therefore mimiking you when you say they are the dog's whatsists? I have no experience of your bearings so I cannot comment on it. Maybe accept my comment for what it was?
What do we know about tribology and Hertz bearing theory?
Is that Hertz rent a bearing? 🙂
http://www.brammer.co.uk/uk_brammer_bearings.aspx
as good as anywhere to buy bearings?
This one is still going strong 😉
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Did you drill grease ports in your BB - cool!
Question: Do you still remove your cranks and service the cups to remove the crud?
Fivespot it was him I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, couldnt remember his nickname, post the cutaway picture fivespot, and absolutely brilliant bit of modding, that really should be in production.
The grease should purge out past the lip seal taking the junk with it.
As tinsy says, the new grease (one pump after crappy rides) purges out the old grease/muck. I use a light semi fluid grease, which not only causes less drag, but also keeps the lip seal lubed. Its the lack of grease on the lip seal which is the first failure point of nearly all the HTII BB's I have repaired/replaced, crappy water enters this point and quickly turns to rust when you put your bike away.
I also have my own theory on why the none drive side bearing always goes first. If you look at the sprocket side of your BB, it is well sheilded from a lot of crap thrown up by your front, whereas the other side is open to everything the front wheel can throw at it. Some will say that the preload on the bearing is the cause, but that preload nut pulls the other crank as much as it pushes the one its in, so preload should be equal accross both bearings.
Thease mods and my theorys are only based on my knowledge from working in industry for 30+ years. I don't claim to be any sort of specialist, I just enjoy tinkering.
Cutaway pic as requested 8)
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Top ****in bannana... I got a spare BB and some new cheapy bearings, would you do mine for me if I mark up the correct place for the grease fitting?
I do however have one question, what stops the plastic tube filling up with grease? Or cant the grease pass the bearing seal on that side??
If you look at the sprocket side of your BB, it is well sheilded from a lot of crap thrown up by your front,
Yup my theory too 🙂
I do however have one question, what stops the plastic tube filling up with grease?
I presume its beacuse it a proper grease port so have to inject grease under pressure to open the port?
Yeah I see that but, what after its into the bearing, if it can purge out crap to the outside does it also not purge into the plastic tube on the inside?
Answering my own question:- Looking at the cutaway again, it is the bearing seal keeps it in.
Pace have a system for pumping grease through the bearings in their RC80BB
yeah but the grease gun and adapter are both sold seperately, bit of a rip off if your paying £60 for the BB already
So does Chris King, but its not as good as what fivespot has done just for a laugh... It looks like the Pace as the CK require some dismantling to grease them.
Fivespot, you considered getting this to market as a cottage industry?
Guess it was a much bigger deal when an XT bb was £40... but even so itS great.
@fivespot I think that's called inventing. very nice would be great to see it in mass production.
@Foxy if I've taken the best bearings in the world and weather proofed them to be specific to outdoors use, how could they not be the best bearings in the industry?
Some say on here a def no no as you damage the seal when removing and replacing for greasing purposes?
fivespot - as the rear of the bearing is sealed, and there is no seal to force the grease into the bearing, Shirley all you are doing is filling up your bb shell with grease?
It'll come out the chainstay hole like on the old konas 😀
I'm hoping the the Hope that has just replaced the Truvativ GXP in my bike will last long enough to justify the higher price. From what I've heard it's much better sealed and when the bearings within it do eventually go you can easily replace them. I had considered the Chris King until I found out how much the grease tool cost!
cynic al, I had a design in my head once that did just that, sort of, replace the plastic tube with an alloy one, have a grease nipple in that, and a clearance hole on the BB shell to get to the grease fitting, you would fill the void between the new tube and the axle with a semi fluid lube like fivespot is talking about, would involve removing the inner bearing seal all together to allow it to flow.
Be a faff to fit as you would need to screw the grease nipple into the new tube after assembly, popping it through the clearance hole in the BB..
Would only be a few ml of lube, but would of course weigh a little extra.
kaesae - Member
@fivespot I think that's called inventing. very nice would be great to see it in mass production.@Foxy if I've taken the best bearings in the world and weather proofed them to be specific to outdoors use, how could they not be the best bearings in the industry?
WTB came up with the idea in the 80s!
Kaesae, how do you "weather-proof" your bearings? Unless you upgrade teh seal, all you can be doing is filling them with grease?
WTB came up with the idea in the 80s!
Was that directed at me al? My idea was inspired bike really old bikes with loose ball BB, some had a flap on the BB you could swivel out of the way to drop some oil into it..
Tinsy....sorry for the delay, got dragged around Tesco for the last hour 😥
If you look at the lower pic, you will see a small cutout I made in the side of the bearing and seal. When this is lined-up with the grease port when fitted, most of the grease goes into the bearing 😉
I recently stripped this BB after over a years use, and there was very little grease in the plastic tube. This was a used BB that had started to feel a liitle bit rough when I decided to do this mod. Although there is still a very slight roughness, this has been the same from day one, and I don't see why it should'nt stay working for many years.
Tinsy, I could Modify your BB. Just out of interest, are your replacment bearings 6mm wide as per originals, or are they 7mm like many of the aftermarket ones ?
As for marketing something like this, the main problem would be the position that the grease port ends up ! On my BB I marked the place I wanted the ports to be with the BB in place, then removed to do the tinkering bit 😉
@Cynical-al PASS.
cynic-al, please don't call me Shirley. The answer to your question is listed above 😉
I also enjoy the tinkering aspects of life and have shamelessly plagiarized fivespot (thank you old boy) and modified the cups on our 3 bikes. In my case I turned the bearings round so that the open side faces the plastic inner tube and the sealed side faces the outer plastic shield. In this way the open side of the bearing can receive the greasy goodness where it's needed.
I also drilled holes in the BB shell and sealed up the rear facing seatpost slots with silicone mastic.
I got the grease fittings shipped over from America BTW.
Cynical al if there is grease filling up a space then water will not be able to be in or shall we say fill up that same space. YES or NO grease and bearings is good water and bearings is bad?
Fivespot ta - Shirely I should get that now.
Kaesae - so you fill the bearings with grease? That's what I do too! I don't call it weatherproofing though.