Is there a protocol for who asks who? I figure there must be, for things beyond odd bits sent in for FGF, as things come in different sizes and it's expensive to spam journos with stuff in the hope they'll review it.
There must be constraints in all this with product availability and how much time people have. And as a mag/site how much weight you have, I guess some are bombarded with offers, while others ask and get a yes, and smaller ones and no-name influencers get a no or ignored.
Couple of things made me think recently. Interesting new or not that new things which nobody seems to have reviewed (surely as a manufacturer/distributor you'd want to push your stuff out there). Group tests or "best" articles of gloves/shoes/whatever which are missing two of the obvious market leaders for that type of product. Another website published a review of a fork that was sent to them over a year ago. Many of the things in FGF don't get reviewed but it's great on here you can ask in the comments and often get a few words from one of the staff. There's an Orange Switch 6 being built for review, why is it pink and why with Formula suspension for example.
And say if I find something interesting and think "oh STW/other should review that". Do I ask the manufacturer, distributor, or the mag/site?
Seth of Berm Creek on YouTube did an interesting video on this.
Basically there’s quite a lot of stuff being passed around which then ends up on the grey market when it’s not needed anymore.
All the big manufacturers will have marketing and press departments that will also arrange samples.
Seth showed a good insight into how it works but that is very much for the American Market.
It does work quite differently over here. As We are a small island compared to the USA so quite often smaller brands for eg would deliver the bike personally and then collect when done .
Smaller items are often posted and collected by the manufacturer/distributor.
In most cases its the magazine requesting a bike .
What always makes me chuckle is the youtubers ,,,,,brand so and so sent me this,yes they did but you asked them too.
Very rare does a brand reach out to a YouTube. It does happen but 9/10 its the other way round .
Just makes them sound more relevant if they say brand so and so sent me this .
Most times they'll be a discussion amongst staff who might say I fancy xyz or not ridden one of the m in a while we should try get one to review.
Sometimes brands like orange may reach out and swy we have this upcoming bike can we drop you one off .
I’m sure brands arranging a product launch know exactly who they’re sending stuff to. I follow more guitar content than bikes, which is obviously a different market (and also USA-centric). Every time there’s a big new release, you know that E.g. Fender’s marketing department has sent 20 guitars to the top 20 YouTubers by viewer count / to reach the biggest swathe of viewers. With (my interpretation) an unspoken agreement that if you post unfavourable review you might get passed over for the next product launch. The big YouTube names get the products and usually get to keep them.
It’s a dirty business, but no different really to brands paying for ad space in paper mags.
The bike industry seems a bit more chaotic/ smaller where review bikes get passed around journos from one to the next so it’s a slower process. But equally I’m sure the bike brands know exactly who they’re sending review samples out to.
"There’s an Orange Switch 6 being built for review, why is it pink and why with Formula suspension for example."
Pink is a stock colour from Orange.
Formula because we haven't reviewed any for aaages and they appear to be sufficiently interesting/different to the Usual Suspects.
"And say if I find something interesting and think “oh STW/other should review that”. Do I ask the manufacturer, distributor, or the mag/site?"
Mag/site. editorial @ singletrackworld dot com probably best email address.
DC Rainmaker buys all the stuff he reviews. He often has a loaner version of a new product initially [pre-embago] from the manufacturers marketing dept which he'll return once the product is available for sale. He seems very protective of his independence from "freebie influence"...
i imagine that they ask manufacturers to send “bigger” things like long term review bikes/frames/suspension/groupsets or big items for comparison tests.
smaller items i’d guess get sent unsolicited and/or on a “magazine x is interested in our stuff” basis.
big companies probably have the budget to spam all the main folks with their stuff
there is a statement at the bottom of FGF about where the stuff comes from and what happens to it
i always wonder about clothes. who would want to be returned, or be the second or third person to test a pair of shorts or a heavily sweated in base layer?
Reviewing for www.ukgravelco.com I ask very politely for items I think people would be interesting to see a real world review of. I make plain up front that if I think the item is rubbish then the review will reflect this.
I sometimes get unsolicited MSG's asking if I'd like to review something.
Most items get sent back to the company or distributor after the review except for shorts/shoes etc as no one will want them afterwards!
All bikes I've reviewed are press bikes and get passed to the next reviewer.
A lot of the time I buy stuff in to review, this is funded by selling ukgravelco T-shirts and stickers
what do GCN/GMBN do then, they appear to be in the pocket of certain brands and I just assumed these brands almost bank rolled GCN
Is singletrack really going out and getting stuff to review? I do t see so much bias along the lines of GCN. But I have moaned for years that they only review stupidly expensive stuff and never balance it with cheaper stuff (which I assume is because iit would show up the expense brands)
Car marketing has reached top cringe now. You have the same group of YouTubers doing the same reviews of cars in the same location in the same garage within hours of each other. It’s just odd
The GCN thing makes me chuckle at times. GCN appear to have sometime in with Silica and hot waxing a chain is the best thing in the world. Now Josh at Silca seems pretty tight with Adam at Zero Friction Cycling and he seems pretty direct about the benefits of hot wax and the horrors of wet lube, which GMBN seem to be spraying liberally like it's the answer to everyone's prayers.
Just seems like a loop that doesn't actually close properly.
Will be interesting to see how the wiggle/CRC/hotlines situation affects GMBN
Re DC Rainmaker, he's my reviewer of choice for outdoor tech because of his fiercely protected independence. I find it interesting that when he slates a product, he still gets products from the same brands. Probably because of his independence and the fact he would review once released anyway.
GCN/GMBN cannot review products as the bulk of their content is commercial (playsports network is a marketing company, related to shift active media). They got done by the ASA a few years back for some sponsored content masquerading as a review iirc.
My other half has done (and still does) some side work for a bike media outlet, mostly at the time because she worked for the parent company.
Long termers they went out to brands and asked, usually trying to hit a spec or price point. She doesn’t do them any more as it’s a reasonable amount of work & thought to make a proper go of it, so dropped it. The bikes go back to the brands at the end & sold off.
She still does kit reviews, thats usually a generic mail out to brands & they just fire kit in. She gets to keep all of that, which is handy when its winter & you ask the likes of 7Mesh/Patagonia, etc & end up with a pile of stuff no-one wants back 🙂
It all comes out of marketing budgets.
It’s a dirty business, but no different really to brands paying for ad space in paper mags.
FWIW, she has never been told to ‘tone down’ poor reviews & that includes some long terms which literally fell to bits, other than cracked, kit which fell apart, etc.
But equally I’m sure the bike brands know exactly who they’re sending review samples out to.
You'd kind of hope so...
FunkyDunc
Free Member
what do GCN/GMBN do then
A few years back I saw someone from
play network smirking when they explained to a brand that they don't do reviews or adverts.
Every brand you see outside of the tech show news bit has paid to be there. Muck Off was recently replaced by Peatys as the cleaning / maintenance brand. Loads of content created on how to lube a chain, clean a bike etc.
Bikes certainly 'do the rounds' the North American market. A bike ended up in my stand for a cursory once over, while going from one well-known website to another for another review. The bike was absolutely poo-kicked, to the point that I don't see how anyone could give the bike a fair review when they had neglected it so badly.
Re DC Rainmaker, he’s my reviewer of choice for outdoor tech because of his fiercely protected independence. I find it interesting that when he slates a product, he still gets products from the same brands
I think, becasue no one else does what he does, a good review from him is probably worth the risk of a negative review of bad product if you don't send him kit, or he does a review on his own bought products. Runners World listed him a while back in their list of 50 most influential runners, and I think on web traffic in cycling tech, he's something like 5th or 6th behind sites like Pinkbike, Cyclingnews, BikeRadar and MTBR etc etc.
The bike was absolutely poo-kicked, to the point that I don’t see how anyone could give the bike a fair review when they had neglected it so badly.
Indeed I got to ride a testers bike many years ago. They were about the 4th user in as many months. It was knackered and badly set up.
I was left wondering why the brand would not have sent the test bike via one of their own dealers to set up and fix anything needed.
GCN is just an infomercial channel, pretty much everything they ride or review they have been paid to do so...
I have a friend who works for The Times, he just writes to companies eg Rapha, saying we have an upcoming article on Mamils, do you want to feature and if so my size is X.
He is always very well kitted out!
Bikes certainly ‘do the rounds’ the North American market.
They do in the UK, my wife bought a Scott Addict which was one of the press review bikes which had finished doing the rounds of all the UK magazines. Her bike has featured in just about every road cycling magazine in the UK.
Car marketing has reached top cringe now. You have the same group of YouTubers doing the same reviews of cars in the same location in the same garage within hours of each other. It’s just odd
I think youtube has just thrown a light on the "first look" / launch / review marketing cycle. Back when it was magazines and TV it just got put out there in the next issue or at some point in a series. Now it's all embargos and if you follow a few channels they all drop the same thing at the same time, like the Volvo EX30 this morning. No-one wants to be later or just skip it until they can actually have the car a few days to do their proper review.
Before covid it was lower level but similar for some of the MTB channels. Some very similar videos from being flown to a launch and all riding the same route on the same bikes.
I find it interesting that when he slates a product, he still gets products from the same brands. Probably because of his independence and the fact he would review once released anyway.
They get a lot of feed back from him as well. So it's worth sending a sample out (with sample software) so you can get someone independents to pour over the details with fresh eyes.
My other half has done (and still does) some side work for a bike media outlet, mostly at the time because she worked for the parent company.
I was going to mention a friend of mine back in the UK who does exactly this, it might even be the same person.
It's sort of firing off a mail to 10-12 importers "group test of winter gloves, going into novembers mag, what you got?" Gets 8 pairs of gloves and does the review.
Have a friend in Sweden who used to do the same. But COVID killed it off.
It’s sort of firing off a mail to 10-12 importers “group test of winter gloves, going into novembers mag, what you got?” Gets 8 pairs of gloves and does the review.
Best winter gloves group test
Group test of winter gloves the distributors I asked could be bothered to send me. Missing 3 of the top sellers.
The YouTube stuff just makes me laugh. It’s clear that they are in the brands pocket one way or another
One YouTuber got really rather upset with me when I asked how objective he could be with his review of a very expensive fork that he’d got for a reduced price on the promise of producing a review. It really was loads better than the other half dozen forks he’d ever tried!
Maybe STW can get hold of a Saddlespur to review?
And if they don't want it back, stick it in this years Megasack for a larf 🙂