Why would it be an issue? E bikes don’t have higher top speeds, they just go faster up climbs. I spend a lot of my rides going 15mph or more on my normal bike.
Ah, but it it doesn't stop there. As per my recent thread. The deristricted ones are troubling. Max Power mind-set.
I’d never consider and have no interest in.
You're missing out then.
All those miles of hand built trails are a lot more interesting than any gravel road.😉
Ebikes aren't for me, yes I've tried them - they're fun but I prefer my normal full suspension bike as an all rounder. I don't think the general public are going to be all that aware of what an ebike is vs a normal bike - especially the way development is going. What can and does happen though is that irresponsible behaviour is amplified when using ebikes.
Example - couple of weekends ago I took a walk up and around Conic hill. It was midday and busy as usual with walkers. Two lads on ebikes thought it the perfect time and place to do laps - going up the back of the hill via the WHW and DH the front into Balmaha straight into the walkers comming up the narrow steps. Do this once on a normal bike and you're a knob to X amount of people you annoy, do it 3-4 times on an ebike because you can then you're a knob to 3-4X amount of people. Do it early morning or in the evening when it's quiet and no-one is going to care.
You’re missing out then.
All those miles of hand built trails are a lot more interesting than any gravel road.😉
You’d think so but no. I’ve ridden GT and Inners, along with a couple of the D&G Stans, Dalby, Whinlatter, and the topographically challenged Thetford. I’ve even ridden them on an e bike(off the back of one of these threads*). The last two occasions I was in Glentress, I actually completely bypassed the trails as I was using the forest roads to access the far edge of the forest for hill runs.
Anyway, I’m reliably informed by one of the other frequent topics that there aren’t any gravel roads in the UK 🚲🙃
*I did something similar with McDonalds after claims it wasn’t as bad as I was making out. Turned out my recollections were accurate. McDonalds are still ****.
Two of my (older) mates have just bought one each. Both Giant, both have said that they’re best thing they’ve ever done.
Both have been riding road bikes for years, but mostly sail. They’ve organised some long rides on them, done the SDW on them and just generally hack around Kingly Vale on them.
Hard to critique anything when all I see is them having fun.
I myself have always embraced them, thing they’re a good solution for folk that just want a bit of help to get outside and enjoy having fun.
Philosophically, I think that we cross a line when we move from manual anything to motor-assisted.
If MTB is just an activity for thrills, then making the thrills more accessible is fine. But if MTB is a sport... a genuine, physically-demanding sport... then it is diminished by motorising it.
There is a difference, for example, between archery and rifle shooting. If your only purpose is to hit the bullseye, then the tool you use doesn’t matter. But if it is as much about the means of hitting the bullseye, then you can’t say that one instrument will overtake the other. They’re similar, but different. If hunting, the two users can even go out side by side, but the archer who gets the game at 50 yards with a perfect shot will have accomplished something different than the gun user.
In other words, they can exist side by side, but they will always be different.
SaxonRider
In other words, they can exist side by side, but they will always be different.
Spot on, end of thread?👍
piemonster.
I think we rode less than 2 miles of the actual official trails as they're not very interesting.
Being able to ride back to the top at 10mph instead of 5 and being fresh for the next descent meant we could fit in a hell of a lot more trails and also get 7 days in without a rest.
I can't do that on one of my non assisted bikes.
Ah, but it it doesn’t stop there. As per my retarded thread. The deristricted ones are troubling. Max Power mind-set.
You've clearly never actually ridden a derestricted Emtb
They're actually quite hard work to hold at high 20s (mph) on the flat off road. clue: they don't cheat wind resistance or rolling resistance but simply offer a top up in power output.
The assistance also doesn't actually output high torque at high cadences so on normal mtb gearing (which all Emtbs have) above 25mph the motor doesn't actually give a crazy amount of assistance. even in boost/turbo
As already covered a fit rider can hold 20-25mph on the flat on an mtb for short periods of time (dependent on tyre choice and terrain conditions) and sprint to well above 30mph.
I'm not sure why you're even referencing your recent thread when your views (and many others) there were laced with complete ignorance. It's not really the bike that's the problem (derestricted or not) It's the etiquate/common sense/manners of the rider(s) you encountered.
As already covered a fit rider can hold 20-25mph on the flat on an mtb for short periods of time
Yeah. A real short period of time. Very few can hold > 20mph off road on the flat for anything much distance let alone 25 mph.
What difference does it make how long they can hold it? (especially when higher descending speeds can be sustained fairly easily without pedalling at all).
yeah.
none.
It’s not really the bike that’s the problem (derestricted or not) It’s the etiquate/common sense/manners of the rider(s) you encountered.
Very true, however what sort of person is attracted to a derestricted eBike. It is like saying it is not the car that is the problems yet certain cars will most likely be driven by idiots that other cars.
Not a single ebike within our group. We have standards....
Makes me laugh when the GF and her mate are grinding up hill in first gear and they shout "cheater!" to anyone who passes them on b ebike.
As an and elderly and hard of hearing ebiker I am really impressed and complimented by the shouts I get likening me to that athletic marvel of the animal kingdom - the cheetah
Some interesting points.
Given the other products that manufacturers like Bosch and Hitachi make I assume that the motors are going to be fairly reliable. I don't know how quickly the tech moves on, probably fairly smartish given this is all relatively new, so is it possible that early adopters might find it increasingly hard to get replacement motors? Just a thought, might not be a problem.
If anything does go wrong with the motor then it's almost certainly a back to base job, I can't see many LBSs having the kit to service them. Not a big deal nor nothing new - you have to send dynamo hubs back to the manufacturer to be serviced, I had to do that with mine last year.
Is the speed restriction on the assist functionality there to avoid licensing/insurance issues?
As for equivalent effort - that's completely missing the point. When I get to the top of a climb I've done so via my effort. If I did that climb on an ebike then I've been assisted, that's the whole point of them, it's not my effort. It doesn't matter whether I was faster on the ebike or even if I dawdled on the standard bike and busted a gut on the e-bike. One is my effort and one isn't. It's the difference between free climbing and aid climbing.
If I lived in a town/city then I'd probably have a commuter/cargo ebike but for my hobby/sport then no, not for the foreseeable future.
piemonster.
I think we rode less than 2 miles of the actual official trails
Drifting OT but...
I tend to go by Trail Forks and Strava Heat Map, anything else I should look at for finding those trails? I’m really very unsociable on a bike so miss the local knowledge part. I’ve another hill run/bike outing on the cards. Might scrap the run part of there’s some trail exploring to be done, the current MTB(s) is too shiny for stashing in the woods for a couple of hours.
Now Kerley I realise this concept is probably going to be well over your head but please try to stop assuming you know what you're talking about when in reality you have next to no personal experience and hold very little knowledge of a subject.
Every single person I know who has derestrictred their emtb has done so to get rid of the annoying assist cut out yo-yo (and subsequent pedalling through treacle feeling) you get around the 15 - 16mph point in acceleration and make it feel closer to a regular bike. (ie. gradually getting harder to accelerate) Not to tear along at 30mph everywhere or pass other riders dangerously. Personally I tend to sprint out of almost every flat corner to above 15mph no matter which bike I'm riding so on a uk restricted emtb I know the assist cut-out and in traits all too well. I've no idea how you ride your singlespeed road bike off road Kerley but I'd assume even you reach speeds in excess of 15mph on the flat too. Had the UK assist limit been set at 20mph like many other countries outside europe a lot of uk/european emtb riders would probably not have felt the need to derestricted their bikes at all.
Other than on climbs no one is going any faster on an (pedalec) emtb than a regular bike can go. restricted or not.
Absolutely any car or bicycle can be driven dangerously/irresponsibly.
Please do the human race a favour and stop putting people you don't even know into neat little categories to justify your own weird prejudices and intolerances.
Even by your own standards geex that last post was an outstanding load of self justifying patronising drivel.
I salute you 👏👏👏
Other than on climbs no one is going any faster on an (pedalec) emtb than a regular bike can go. restricted or not.
You've repeatedly said your ebike is faster downhill.
I’m 57 and find pedaling uphill very difficult nowadays. I think that quite a few users on this site may be in a similar position.
I'm almost 61 and I've always found pedalling uphill very difficult, but for me that's the point. Getting to the top of a climb under my own effort is one of the reasons I go cycling. I have a motorbike for that other stuff.
Just back from a week in the Outer Hebrides and there are lots of e-bikes doing the Hebridean Way or just scooting around the islands. Most are ridden by folk my age or older. One of the things I did notice is that most of the riders were wearing multiple layers of clothing - waterproof jackets, fleeces, long trousers, wooly hats, big gloves etc while I was mostly riding around in a thin top and shorts. It occurred to me that they'd feel a lot warmer if they were actually putting in a decent effort.
Montgomery. The Downhills I tend to ride most also happen to be regularly ridden by a fairly high number of professional EWS and WC DH racers. Trust me. My Ebike isn't going faster than those guys trail/enduro/DH bikes are. Read what I actually typed instead of making shit up to suit a snide retort.
Scotroutes. I think it's a shame when I hear old guys like you say you think you're too fit and young to consider an ebike. By the time you're properly decrepit most folk simply won't have the strength or bravery to ride one well anymore. You actually have to be fairly strong/fit and skilled to ride them well.
it's really nothing like sitting twisting a throttle and leaning while sat down.
or is your motorcycle a MX/Trials bike?
Now Kerley....uneccessary drivel...
Please do the human race a favour and stop putting people you don’t even know into neat little categories to justify your own weird prejudices and intolerances.
I actually posed the question "what sort of person is attracted to a de-restricted eBike." can't see how you read that as categorisation, prejudice etc,. and you could have just answered giving some examples of the people you know who ride de-restricted bikes to provide a view.
Others could have then given some counter examples, who knows.
You really do have some issues don't you.
Scotroutes. I think it’s a shame when I hear old guys like you say you think you’re too fit and young to consider an ebike. By the time you’re properly decrepit most folk simply won’t have the strength or bravery to ride one well anymore. You actually have to be fairly strong/fit and skilled to ride them well.
Yeah - I get that, but like I said, the physical effort required to ride my bicycle, the reward I get from that achievement etc is the main reason I do it. Remember, I've ridden quite a few e-bikes as a result of work so I'm not dissing them from no experience, they're just not for me. And yeah, maybe one day I'll be happy to use/include one as a way of still exploring the countryside, either off-road or on-road.
Do I think they're a good thing or a bad thing? I doubt it's that clear cut. I do worry that they could be part of a general trend in society away from partaking in hard, physical activity. On the other hand, they could help wean folk out of their cars and the more folk that explore the outdoors generally, the more folk appreciate it and might want to help preserve it.
To answer the OPs question; tipping point? I don't think there is one.
I knew it'd go straight over your head Kerley.
Sorry. I'll spell it out for you by quoting the weird "prejudice and intolerence" part I was referring to.
what sort of person is attracted to a derestricted eBike. It is like saying it is not the car that is the problems yet certain cars will most likely be driven by idiots that other cars.
🙄
and you think I have issues?
m'kay
Kids can wheelie em’
Whats not to grin about..
One of the things I did notice is that most of the riders were wearing multiple layers of clothing – waterproof jackets, fleeces, long trousers, wooly hats, big gloves etc while I was mostly riding around in a thin top and shorts.
I used to see that when I was on my singlespeed and everyone else seemed to be on gears
It occurred to me that it was non of my buisness what anyone else was wearing or riding.
U OK hun?
Or are you just trying to argue for arguments sake? (hint - you're not as good at it as geex, so don't try to emulate him)
I'm fine.
Just not sure what point you're trying to make about what other people wear.
Well that just got a bit weird(er)
I'm off out on my microscooter in my top hat and tails
Just not sure what point you’re trying to make about what other people wear.
The point being made is, if the people weren't riding e-bikes they'd be working hard enough to keep warm without the need of thick layers of clothing.
Same could be said about singlespeeds compared to geared bikes too...
What about roadies? they always look over dressed.
Pointless point is pointless.
The Downhills I tend to ride most also happen to be regularly ridden by a fairly high number of professional EWS and WC DH racers. Trust me. My Ebike isn’t going faster than those guys trail/enduro/DH bikes are. Read what I actually typed instead of making shit up to suit a snide retort.
No, I wasn't saying what you've inferred. You have repeatedly said that you, personally, are faster downhill on your e-bike than on a conventional bike. Nothing relating to other riders. It contradicts your statement that:
Other than on climbs no one is going any faster on an (pedalec) emtb than a regular bike can go. restricted or not.
“You have repeatedly said that you, personally, are faster downhill on your e-bike than on a conventional bike.“
I don’t that that was Geex, I think that was me. And I’m quicker on the ebike because it has bigger wheels, a better fork and slightly more aggro geometry than my (now sold) full-sus. And I think the extra weight in the frame improves the suspension performance and I like the extra stability (but I’m not light, fairly strong and my weak point on the bike is confidence - I’d rather ride a DH Bike than an XC bike on techier trails).
The motor isn’t doing anything most of the time, it only does anything when you’re pedalling AND below 15.5mph. I avoid trails like that and prefer pumping to pedalling.
I just hope that all these people who are now riding twice as far are now doing twice the amount of trail work (although admittedly 0X2=0.....)
On a less snarky note, I don't want to own a 50Lb bike (it's not 2003 any more) and I don't want to go uphill twice as fast. But a bike that weighs 10Lb more than my current bike with more modest pedal assist would be tempting in the future. But people always want MAX POWER!! Reminds me of my more nerdy Hi-Fi days where people would buy stereos with a claimed 1000w output and loads of dials, knobs and flashing lights, but ultimately a boring black box with 20w output and a bass and treble knob was generally way better.
“I just hope that all these people who are now riding twice as far are now doing twice the amount of trail work (although admittedly 0X2=0…..)”
I’m riding about the same distance but taking less time to do it. Which really helps when you run your own business, have two small children and a third on the way.
I knew it’d go straight over your head Kerley.
Just because I don't agree with what you are saying does not equal going above my head. In my view (which is different to yours, wow) a non restricted e-bike could attract people that will ride it irresponsibly. In the same way as a boy racered up car will attract young men who don't drive cars responsibly.
I think kerley has a point,
If you pull up at a set of traffic lights next to a mitsubishi evo, you ‘might’ expect the driver to give it the berries when they change to green,
In the same way, if you pull up next to a kia rio, you ‘might not’ expect the driver to give it the berries.
It’s not an absolute, but what you ‘might’ reasonably expect to happen.
You also ‘might’ expect the type of rider who would go to the trouble (and considerable expense) of derestricting an Ebike to ride it like a knob.
Of course, not everyone who does it will ride like that, but etc etc.
I see Ebikes as a divergence - a sort of macroevolution of MTB’ing. They will co-exist alongside ‘normal’ bikes because they serve different purposes. I don’t therefore see a tipping point.
I’m ambivalent towards them - I can see how Ebikes might help older riders and those that want to maximise their time on the slopes and such like. I have to say I’ve never tried one - I don’t not feel inclined to do so ... each to their own and all that.
I just hope that all these people who are now riding twice as far are now doing twice the amount of trail work (although admittedly 0X2=0…..)
I find riding mine while carrying a spade etc is easier than on my Capra so I’m doing my share of trail maintenance.
In my local forest I’m pretty much the only person to do any in the last 15 years I reckon.
Regarding the “it’s a completely different thing” theory
Pedalling - less effort or same effort, more speed or distance
Jumping - same
Cornering - same
Wheelies - same (just don’t use turbo mode)
Manuals - harder (on mine) to get front wheel up
So if turning the pedals is your main attraction to MTB, then yes, it’s a bit different, but to me you might as well be on an exercise bike in a gym.
If it’s all the other aspects of riding, then it’s the same, but you get to do the fun bits more.
I’m not sure why you’re even referencing your recent thread when your views (and many others) there were laced with complete ignorance. It’s not really the bike that’s the problem (derestricted or not) It’s the etiquate/common sense/manners of the rider(s) you encountered
I'm not the ignorant one though. It's the nob on the e-bike.
Your 'information' is laced with daft logic.
Regardless of the pros and cons, unless I am a pensioner or I develop a disability, then i'll be damned if I intend to ever ride an e-bike. I like the uphills almost as much as the downhills, theyre part of the fun. The sense of achievement that I made it up a swine of climb under my own leg power is reward enough for me.
“The sense of achievement that I made it up a swine of climb under my own leg power is reward enough for me.”
I like that too. It’s particularly satisfying doing it on a 50lb ebike with the assistance switched off whilst others are failing on their far lighter normal bikes.
Have we reached a tipping point with regard to E-bikes?
Yeah, in terms of I see one or two out most rides these days. That's only really happened this year. But...
those left on normal bikes will become the social outcasts
Nah, the stigma* will remain for a good while yet - if not always.
*An observation made without judgement, before you jump down my throat. It is what it is.
I find riding mine while carrying a spade etc is easier than on my Capra so I’m doing my share of trail maintenance.
In my local forest I’m pretty much the only person to do any in the last 15 years I reckon.
I seem to remember you talking about trail work many years ago on a ride on Cannock Chase 🙂
I think E-bikes would be a great tool for trail building / maintenance. Hopefully more people realize this as they get more popular.
I am not convinced that the internal motor of the e-bike and specific e-bikes is the future and is going to be interesting to see how they all hold up over the years.
I believe that retro fit motor packs will come about in a ideal way to be fitted to enable you to have it on those big days out when you know you are going to want it. bike manufactures would prefer it as it would make life easier for them and wouldn't need to worry about chasing motor technology.
I remember when full suspension was really starting to become more
mainstream and the naysayers called them skill compensators...
Now it’s ebikes. I have no idea why people have such strong feelings about them.
I’ve just finished three days in the lakes on a Decoy with another also on a Decoy: a couple of laps of Patterdale on Friday, Borrowdale Bash and Skiddaw yesterday and a longer loop around Skiddaw today and back to Grange, about 55 miles.
We’re at different levels of fitness, I rode in the lowest configuration within Eco, he was on Trail and we were able to ride together the whole time for three days. He was taking it easy on the downhills, still getting used to the weight of popping the front up but at the age of 79 I guess he’s earned the right to let me get the gates 🙂
He is fit (super fit for his age) but regardless he was climbing like he did 20 years ago, and he loved it. I loved that we were able to ride together on some great trails (although the last push up the top of the last Patterdale climb was miserable work).
About a quarter of the riders I met made some little comment about cheating. They are missing the point completely. Not better, not worse, just different.
'I like that too. It’s particularly satisfying doing it on a 50lb ebike with the assistance switched off whilst others are failing on their far lighter normal bikes.'
Fair enough, but it begs the question 'Why have an e-bike if you don't use the assistance?'. Surely that's the only reason they exist isn't it?
“Fair enough, but it begs the question ‘Why have an e-bike if you don’t use the assistance?’. Surely that’s the only reason they exist isn’t it?”
My regular riding schedule is my daily commute and the Thursday night group ride (the group part of it is 1900-2100).
I was commuting on one of my MTBs - I briefly did it on my old Brompton and hated how restrictive it was - but then I started going to the gym more (doing squat/bench/deadlift focused heavy stuff) and in the interest of having legs that could still pedal on a Thursday night I started using our old 50cc scooter more for the commute (and also to keep it running now my wife wasn’t using it).
I’d been e-curious for a while, particularly having had Timmy C (of bass playing fame, if there’s such a thing as that?!) go on and on and on at me about them, and he’s a way more hardcore MTBer than me, the sort that holds KOMs both down and uphill on gnarly terrain in noted spots.
Anyway, I got the Levo in December and it has been bloody brilliant!
My commute is as quick as on the scooter but more fun (urban drops, woo!) especially if I have the time to go the long way via the proper trails. When my legs feel like it I pedal hard, when they don’t I pedal softer but I don’t get there tons slower thanks to the motor hauling me up the hills at a reasonable pace.
And as I ride to and from the Thursday ride (it’s about 20 minutes away on the way there and 30 minutes coming home if you’re pedalling hard), I get there quicker - if I’ve done my usual leaving it to the last minute trick I arrive sounding like I’ve just finished an XC race (ebikes go quicker when you pedal hard!) and then as all the fresh riders sprint off on the dot of 7pm, I can give myself a rest in eco mode, and then turn it off and do the ride like I’m on a heavier bike - and then turn it back to get home quicker.
The assistance is controlled by two buttons near my left thumb - next to the grips above my dropper lever. It’s s bit like when I had 2x on my bike years ago - “I am not using the granny ring, unless I’m about to stall!” Same with the assistance when I’m riding with all my non-ebike riding mates.
It’s saving me about 25 minutes a day on the commute and making the uphill slog home at 9pm after the group night ride a much better experience (singletrack uphill at speed is fun!)
And most importantly, I love how it rides as a normal MTB! I was hoping to take it to Wales this weekend (for four days of uplift!) but had a scheduling clash. I can’t wait to get it on some trails that make the best of it being such a monster truck, it’s so fast and stable when you point it downhill.
Don’t care. Still enjoying what I do. I’ll get one when peddling uphill is no longer fun.
I view e-bikes in the same way I view mobility scooters.
For some they are invaluable as a way to maintain mobility and avoid becoming secluded due to increasing frailty. Many though seem to use them because they're lazy, or claim that they need one "cause of me fibro" or some other self-diagnosed 'condition'.
And before anyone breaks out the "you're just jealous/envious" line, I could quite easily afford to get one just from my 'war pension'. Perhaps one day when the injuries that qualify me for those payments worsen to the point I can't ride an 'analogue' bike I might consider it, but for now I'll keep earning my decents.
So if turning the pedals is your main attraction to MTB
The thing is, it doesn't have to be the main attraction to be *part* of MTBing.
With regards to the "skill compensator" FS argument, did anybody ever say that in a non-ironic way? Or actually say it about anyone's bike but their own? An FS is an evolution and a development of what you can build that can be powered by a human - it gives advantages, but there's more weight to get up hills, higher costs and more complexity. Putting a motor on it changes the game.
We now seem to be having an argument that derestricting is just to avoid annoyances actually and is fine and isn't really irresponsible at all, but then where do you draw the line? Society/the law has drawn the line where they have. I'm sure you could engineer in a gentle power taper over speeds approaching 15mph if this really was your problem. Ebikes won't kil access for MTBers, but derestriction might kill off ebikes.
Tipping point in the sense that they will eventually take over? No, but I think we are reaching peak marketing. Things should calm down soon, once the marketing folk have got all the eBike curious to splash their cash and have moved on the the "next big thing".
There are a lot of parallels with the fatbike thing of a few years ago. Those who spent their cash on one would protest loudly on forums like this that they were not just for snow/sand and were great fun everywhere, just like those who have spent their cash on ebikes are keen to claim that they are not just for the old and infirm. Both groups are right, but the fact remains that, for most people, most of the time a "normal" bike is still going to be the best option.
Walk into JE James now and their main focus is on E, with the normal bikes off to one side.
I've got a Kenevo and love it. I fully intend to still use my other 3 MTB's, but they are locked away somewhere, due to current lack of storage at home.
Someone mentioned 'time poor, money rich men' owning them. There's an element of truth in that for me. Working away from home, I don't get out so much with my normal riding group, then when I do, it's painful as they are much fitter than me on a normal bike.
I took it to BPW the other week and it was great. BPW is knackering even downhill - just having some assistance back up to the bus, when everyone was pushing was nice, as were the pedally bits on the top of the hill. Downhill, where I wasn't being assisted, it was faster than my Capra
With regards to general uphill, it makes it fun, especially technical sections - not just ones where it removes some element of skill, but some that I'd never get up on a normal bike, regardless of fitness. And you can set the level of assistance anywhere from 0-100% if you do want to work. I rode up the Beast @ Ladybower the other week instead of 'Poo, illegitimate child climb'. Yep, ormal people on normal bikes do this, but no way I'd have attempted it normally
[humblebrag]
Did 96.8miles in the White Peak yesterday, not sure which would be worse, range anxiety for my legs or for a battery.
[/humblebrag]
having recently bought an Evo i would add that the assist speed limit is a good thing and should be left alone.
derestricting as the discussion shows on here between MTBers is contentious and will only be seen as confirmation from members of the public / councils that EMTB's should not be allowed on trails (after all fellow MTBers cant agree).
the speeds you can attain uphil are as many have said well below unassiated downhill speeds and make technical climbs a new fun challenge BUT are unexpected by other trail users.
Argument to remove or increase the allowable speed assist limit is 100% likely to only go one way - a lower limit or outright ban of EMTB use away from paved roads (as the USA is evolving).
Any argument that the derestriction is needed due to the way the assist is lost on safety grounds is rubbish - be honest and just state i want to go faster and cant be bothered to pedal.
The wider public and council / govmt will assume the worst and legislate for the minority that act inappropriately.
EMTB does not need a disabled rider or old rider to be of value its just a different experience.
I find it has more flow throughout the whole ride, not better just different.
Im not competing with anyone, but comments on here and in wider world with regard to derestriction are a sad measure of the me me me nature of todays world.
Derestriction sits in the same category as needing a 500hp car to accelerate away from danger - you know your wrong, you know your self indulgent and self centred and cant face the reality.
Mine's deristricted, because that's how I wan't it. The 16mph limit is frustrating on a 50lb bike with big tyres - it's constantly kicking in/out.
I think I've got mine set to 25mph, but that doesn't mean I'm blasting along trails at 25mph, nor going uphill at ridiculous speeds - in fact, uphill, ebikes prefer a high cadence, so you are still in a low gear. There is only so fast your legs can spin, assisted or not.
It's nothing to do with safety grounds, I just simply wouldn't have one if it had to be restricted. I wouldn't find it enjoyable
Premier Icon
smogmonsterunless I am a pensioner i’ll be damned if I intend to ever ride an e-bike.
I’m a pensioner now and I’m seriously very tempted by one - in fact, when Liteville produce the e-301 I’ll be all over it, enthused by videos of Tom Ohler and Harald Phillip riding down improbable alpine via ferrata.
The only reason that I haven’t had one before now is that I split my time between two places and would like one in each, which is far more expense than I can justify.
So, at the minute, it has to be a couple of 301’s.
At Yorkshire True Grit at the weekend, there were several people riding e-bikes most were past retirement age. I spoke to a few on the ride and they said that and E-bike allows them to ride instead of being stuck at home. Given the hills around there, I'd have no problem justifying it even as a 43-year-old. An quick evening ride around the would mean never venturing more than a 10-mile radius from home. With an e-bike, you'd get access to much more.
"The 16mph limit is frustrating on a 50lb bike with big tyres – it’s constantly kicking in/out."
It's fine on my Levo which is also a 50lb bike with big tyres. But I think that's partly due to how the software deals with you riding at around that speed and partly because although they're big tyres, they're not horribly draggy (Hillbilly Grid 29x2.6 front, Butcher 29x2.6 and now Eliminator 29x2.3 rear). Then again it could also be because I'm a fairly strong pedaller (though far from an XC racer!)
in fact, uphill, ebikes prefer a high cadence, so you are still in a low gear.
That's a myth. They actually don't as output is based on both cadence AND torque put through the crank by the rider there's a definite sweetspot in cadence as to what level of assist the motor outputs in each mode and a sweetspot as to what cadence is most efficient in each mode.
eg. around 50rpm is actually far more efficient in eco on a E8000 steps motor than 90rpm+ and at anything above about 130rpm the motor pretty much stops outputing any assistance at all (in every mode).
Derestriction sits in the same category as needing a 500hp car to accelerate away from danger – you know your wrong, you know your self indulgent and self centred and cant face the reality.
Please Mr Fun police goany no take away my 4X bike?
Clue: It's ****ing way faster down the first straight at my local BMX track than a 48lb derestricted Emtb?
Clue no 2: they're push bikes FFS! they can't actually go fast* anywhere but downhill or behind a massive wind break. piddly wee leccy motor or not.
*30mph isn't fast
FFS 🙄
With regards to the “skill compensator” FS argument, did anybody ever say that in a non-ironic way?
Are you kidding? It was a daily topic, pretty relentless. Here’s a random thread I plucked off a search. https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/do-i-need-a-skill-compensator/
Here are two comments, it took about 30 seconds to find them.
Seriously have you thought about a skills day first, it's made a vast difference to my jey mincing, it's an awful lot less money, I'm pretty confident that a day with Ed O of Great Rock has probably gained me another year at least of finding the limits of a fully rigid bike. I'm planning to keep going back as it seems a far cheaper way of upping my game long term than splurging on new kit almost continously.
you don't need a skills compensator, you need some skills.
also you seem right on the extreme of bikes (very jey),something with a 120mm fork some widish bars and some proper sized tyres would set you right up. I'm thinking 456, soul, PA sorta bike.
what are the locals riding?
In any of these threads from about 10 years ago, substitute skills compensator for ebike, the rhetoric is similar.
Haha, I've just had a glance at the 9 year old thread. My, how times have changed! 🙂
I believe that retro fit motor packs will come about in a ideal way to be fitted to enable you to have it on those big days out when you know you are going to want it
That would be my ideal also
I don't think cost is a problem with these ebikes.. They sell!
I live near a reservoir with a well known bike shop situated in the main car park. Its downstairs is now a massive ebike showroom, these things cost a ****in fortune. And they seem to sell like hotcakes.
Each time I head in there for a browse I see a few lined up, prepped for customer collection.
The bike shop sells the utopia of easy, no sweat exercise and people buy into it.
I see soo many being ridden round the lake.
The demographic I see seems to be middle aged couples, with his and hers ebikes.
Usually with brand new matching camelbacks, new gloves, new rain jackets and Iphones mounted to the bars.
They get back to their SUV (that's never seen a pothole let alone any sports utility) load up the bikes on the newly purchased Thule rack, off they go feeling pumped after the epic 9 mile flat ride.
I don't know these people but I suspect that once summer goes the bikes will not get used again, maybe next summer.
Or the teenagers who have hired one and then ride the route like they stole it, pulling sick skids and wheelies.
I don't think I have ever seen what I would call a seasoned MTB'er on one around here.
I see the point, I'm sure they are initially great fun, open up further trails, allow more downs without the pain of ups, enable less active people to get outside.
But to a rider who (at this time in his life anyway) does not require any of the above, they are just plain annoying when they clog up the trails and bike shops.
Jeez, I'm so grumpy.
https://singletrackworld.com/charged/2019/06/24/2020-commencal-meta-power-29-team-first-ride/
this is almost enough to tip me over into an e-bike purchase...
If I get a bad injury then E-bikes would be useful. Already broken a few bones in my foot a year ago and it hurts to put out a lot of power or run.
My Dad is 70 and I can see him on an E-bike but recently changed his ratio to be easier uphill.
I live near a reservoir with a well known bike shop situated in the main car park. Its downstairs is now a massive ebike showroom, these things cost a **** fortune. And they seem to sell like hotcakes.
Each time I head in there for a browse I see a few lined up, prepped for customer collection.
The bike shop sells the utopia of easy, no sweat exercise and people buy into it.I see soo many being ridden round the lake.
The demographic I see seems to be middle aged couples, with his and hers ebikes.
Usually with brand new matching camelbacks, new gloves, new rain jackets and Iphones mounted to the bars.
They get back to their SUV (that’s never seen a pothole let alone any sports utility)* load up the bikes on the newly purchased Thule** rack, off they go feeling pumped after the epic 9*** mile flat ride.I don’t know these people but I suspect that once summer goes the bikes will not get used again, maybe next summer.
Or the teenagers who have hired one and then ride the route like they stole it, pulling sick skids and wheelies.
I don’t think I have ever seen what I would call a seasoned MTB’er on one around here.
I see the point, I’m sure they are initially great fun, open up further trails, allow more downs without the pain of ups, enable less active people to get outside.
But to a rider who (at this time in his life anyway) does not require any of the above, they are just plain annoying when they clog up the trails and bike shops.
Jeez, I’m so grumpy.
You saw my parents at Rutland then? His and Her's matching Trek Powerfly's.
*T5
**Fammia
***They're now semi retired to Wensleydale and do more mountainbiking than I do 😂
I'm not sure why we should need a tipping point. With the way technology has moved in mountain bikes since we started in 87 and the speed of it over the last 10 years who knows what the next 10 will bring.
In true Singletrack fashion you can be sure the moaners will still be moaning, the haters will still be hating and those of us that ride what ever bikes with a big grin on our faces will still be doing that.
In the grand scheme of things does it really matter what we ride as long as we enjoy it. 😎
medlow,
I live about 7 miles from rutland water, but unfortunately i dont have any matching characteristics with your generalizations about people that own an ebike, except i own an ebike and enjoy riding that along with the other bikes i own . not sure if 20 plus years of riding them makes me seasoned or not. i am plenty fit enough not to use an ebike but i have made a conscious decision to enjoy my life as i see fit and not let others decide for me
"... i own an ebike..."
With a login name like 'sofaking" I'm sure that doesn't come as a surprise to many.
😉
@sofaking
Just think how much better trips to the Golfie would feel though if you suffered on the climbs and only did half the amount of descending.
Your arms and upper body wouldn't ache half as much if you cut down on the number of descents you did in a day.😉
I'm much quicker on the same local trails on my FS 29er than I was on my rigid 26er in 1994. No-one seems to be whining about that, I wonder why?
Because whinning about 29ers is so 10 years ago
Whiners got to whine about something.
Sofaking.
I'm talking Grafham Water.
I'm not saying everyone who owns an ebike fits my observed demographic.
You are clearly the exception that I would enjoy seeing on the trail as I'm sure you ride courteously and would say hello with a knowledgable nod to another 'seasoned' MTB'er. 😉
From my observation round here, it's either teenagers hiring and riding them like they just stole it, weaving down the trail, skidding and just generally being a nuisance.
Or middle aged husband & wife tourists doing 5mph on their new his and hers ebikes, riding 2 abreast and getting completely spooked by my very polite, clear and well in advance warning that another rider wants to pass. They just slam the brakes and wobble to a stop in the middle of the trail.
I stay away from the lake trails now during peak times and stick to the off piste.
I'm sure that 5 years ago these guys would have found something else to do and I'm not saying they should keep off the trails, not at all.
But maybe the easy access benefit of ebikes has opened up the sport to folk who don't have the wider skill set to deal with the trails and other users.
That's a weirdly exclusive attitude.
That’s a weirdly exclusive attitude.
Indeed!
I’m much quicker on the same local trails on my FS 29er than I was on my rigid 26er in 1994. No-one seems to be whining about that, I wonder why?
Seriously? I'm pretty chilled about ebikes but I can understand why some people get their knickers in a twist over them.
(It's the motors, but I think you knew that really).
To go back to the OP, at a tangent... if there's a real "tipping point" it might be when the impact (or not) of ebikes becomes apparent.
What I mean is, there are lots of unfounded fears and prejudices about them at the mo, along with a few founded ones no doubt (eg. the attitude some riders here have to derestricting them). But as they get more popular we'll see which fears are justified or not.