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Did the dog bite? Cause you pain?
No, neither have the many drivers whose cars literally brushed my arm when I've been cycling. Except for the one that dragged me around an island, that caused me a considerable amount of pain (and loss of wages).
I'll always contend that an unleashed dog, barking, bounding over jumping up and putting it's teeth around someone's arm is a dangerous dog, whether potentially or literally. We have a small dog, completely harmless - yet (while leashed on a narrow path) he once sniffed someone's ankles and she nearly leaped down a steep bank in what appeared to be theatrical, hysterical terror. Her husband subsequently raged at us for the perceived danger. That kind of overreaction gets my back up, yet our dog was in 'her space' and on a public path - no getting away from that.
[quote=GrahamS ]I'm surprised he didn't mention road tax at this point to be honest. As the "I'm allowed to kill you because you don't pay tax" also seems to be a common line of thought in these confrontations too.
He did mention something about paying for the roads, so I think he covered that one.
Dez B Wow, some folk really do live in some fantasy world.
I was a dream scenario I had... ....if only people could just stop being c****s to each other.
if you can stay calm and collected when you have a near miss , good on you but I cant .
i commute everyday and always on the defensive .
He did mention something about paying for the roads, so I think he covered that one.
Must have missed that amongst the angry spluttering. Full House then.
Top marks to angrydad. Somebody give that man a Clarkson.
Definitely no winners in that clip fullstop.
It was close but there was NO accident.
What if all dash cam drivers went after nearish drivers or near misses? It'd be classed as ..road rage.
He chased the driver after all. Hence two wrongs IMO.
He then went onto post it making 'cyclists' look like petty dicks.
As with my edit above, it doesn't really make a difference if you do stay calm and collected - that wasn't just taking the piss, it's how I expect it would have gone with that cardiac arrest waiting to happen. I've been calm and collected before now (I try hard to start off that way) and just got abuse in response - some people get all defensive when challenged on their behaviour because they feel entitled to behave that way.
[quote=hora ]It was close but there was NO accident.
Oh, that's OK then.
You didn't happen to be in a chavved up small car last week near Worcester last week? When I complained about them cutting in on me the response was "well you're still on your bike aren't you?" Presumably such driving is fine so long as you don't kill anybody.
What did the driver look like then?
Paragon of virtue and example to all
I think for it to be classed as road rage you would need to be going batshit mental, getting out or off your vehicle, threatening to kill someone, committing assault /chasing someone etc.
Following someone is not road rage what the driver did is road rage.
I assume even pistonheads can work that one out even if you are struggling
Presumably such driving is fine so long as you don't kill anybody.
And even if you do it is still fine.
People will watch the video and say "It wasn't that close. He had loads of room."
Then a jury of twelve drivers will acquit you on the basis that the sun was unexpectedly present in the sky during the day.
Following? He clearly went after him. If I or you was looking in the rear view it'd be escalation.
Not so long back I was at the lights in the middle of the lane 50m's from the next lights (that also go red/not enough time). To my left are two more lanes and immediately on my right a verge with my chosen outer lane diverging off into residential. As the light turned green the driver behind me floored it (spun his fronts) and 'squeezed past'.
At the next light (red) I rolled up and said 'why'? His reply 'you were allover the road so I decided to squeeze past you ****ing ****'. I simply replied 'right' and left it.
Last year we had a stw road pootle- we were cut up by a female bmw driver and I heard her car ground out on the mini roundabout, rider shouts 'you ****' (it was close) -hearing this she slammed on and cut across hitting the kerb to cut him up. Shouted at him etc. I rode back and said 'excuse me could I speak to you for a moment' to which she lurched forward/floored it and made us jump out of the way.
You CANT educate or 'win'. Youll have a heart attack.
Unless you are hit at best you are better off raising your hand in an OPEN gesture or just carry on. The transgressor is in a 1-2 ton killing machine. I've seen short/slight drivers lose it with other road users. It brings out irrational short term behaviour in some people.
It'd be safer to change commute time (quieter) - even by 30mins in a morning can mean you are out of the rusher's-way or route entirely. Who wants to ingest diesel fumes anyway?
I just watched back the video from yesterday, here's a normal overtake (I might have even waved a "thanks" at this driver, something I do when they give good space):
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Shortly followed by this arse.
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There wasn't even anything on the other side of the road.
On the video I swear even before the image in the first snapshot. You feel them. It's not "ooh, let me have a think, gosh that car was jolly close" it's "****!"
How fast is that road? First one is still overtaking into traffic, unless your vid is making it look worse than it is. Perhaps the roads up here are less busy, and waiting for a better gap less of a problem.
DezB I once had a JCB driver use theside of his bucket (v.close) to move me more to the kerb. His reasoning was I should be riding in the kerb and I was being a tit so he 'moved me over'.
and..? As in my previous post a lorry clipped me, he said I was in a layby. like I'd jump on a cab and confront a lorry driver just for fun.
It's just weird, but I don't think you can just let people get away with it.
[i]First one is still overtaking into traffic[/i]
That doesn't effect me though. I have enough problem judging every one else's driving when I'm in the car! When I'm on the bike I'm just concerned about my own safety.
> First one is still overtaking into trafficThat doesn't effect me though.
It would do if they decide to abort the overtake by side-swiping into you instead of risking a head-on crash, which is what I'd be worried about there. 😕
For the [i]"he had loads of room"[/i] crowd. Here is a still from the Peugeot video. Even if you don't consider the fish-eye lens that still looks waaaaay too close to me:
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(For reference [url= http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/4115.html ]the generally agreed safe minimum overtaking distance is 1.5 metres[/url]. Sadly not in UK law though).
All of which shows road riding can be way gnarlier than mountain biking.
If its not road surface, spilt diesel, sun in eyes, legal high, drunk, tired drivers etc all conspire to make mtb a safer place.
[i]It would do if they decide to abort the overtake by side-swiping into you instead of risking a head-on crash, which is what I'd be worried about there[/i]
What? Are you forgetting this was a video of a real event? that car over took, gave me plenty of room. It's over! That's it!
Yeah I understand that, but I'm saying that I'm not sure I would be waving thanks to that driver for a nice safe overtake.
On the first frame I'd have my eyes on the verge figuring out where I can perform a Tactical Dismount if they decide this overtake is a bad idea.
But you were there. Closing speeds may be much slower than they appear in your stills. If you were happy with it then fair enough.
You CANT educate or 'win'. Youll have a heart attack.
This is the problem. I shouldn't be this way it needs to change.
I was thinking about this in general the other day. I actually enjoy the challenge of commuting. Riding fast, taking the lane, being assertive. But this is NOT NORMAL!
Commuting by bike shouldn't be a challenge, it shouldn't feel like combat! You shouldn't have to behave like a prey animal being chased down by hounds simply for choosing a different way to get to work
Apparently female cyclists report more instances of abuses and near misses because they ride slower, so essentially we live in a society where apparently it is acceptable to bully weaker members on the roads.
And we tolerate it!
Anyway, the shocking thing was that Vectra didn't have anything restricting how far to the right it could go. He didn't stop and challenge me, and the traffic lights, not far off, are at the top of a nasty little climb!
Anyway, the shocking thing was that Vectra didn't have anything restricting how far to the right it could go.
Nothing pisses me offer more when commuting than close passes with nothing on the other side of the road
DezB's red car shouldn't have overtaken at that moment, imo. Oncoming traffic. In that situation as the driver, I wait for the other side of the road to clear. Looks like a fast country road so not generous amounts of width. I'd have waited, it only costs a few seconds and amounts to kak all in comparison to the time taken to make the entire journey.
Vectra driver? Well posting naughty words won't change what's going on behind the eyes of that driver.
8 out of 10 passes like that are deliberate, displaying a callous and in some cases malicious disregard for the safety of another.
Shocking, just shocking.
As a car driver, I'd never want another road/footpath user to come to harm by my driving. I just wouldn't want that on my hands.
Drivers like that suffer Tin box syndrome, with potentially deadly results.
Richmtb agree.
Ontop of this you get the (I wont say sex etc) mobile facebook/texter drafting past you too. Lost in their own bubble.
As above I think a lot of near misses are deliberate. The rest are poor drivers, misjudged overtake etc.
The other week when cycling home from Exeter, a convertible merc cut me off at a roundabout exit nearly taking my front wheel off. Forward a mile later in traffic jam and I pull next to the convertible with its roof open and said to the driver he was close and can be just give more space for bikes. His reply was "I ride bikes too". I nearly laughed but just rode off. He was fat too so maybe it's a lifestyle thing!
I was driving to Llandegla on Sunday - on the narrow road between Coedpoet and Llandegla road. In a line of traffic doing 40. On the other side of the road (which is cresting a hill at this point) is a straining roadist.
The A4 (possibly A6, they do all look the same to me...) behind him is obviously not best pleased with being held up and performs one of the worlds worst overtakes giving the rider about 3.2mm of room*
Audi had an MTB on the roof... FFS man, same team!
*possibly an exaggeration for effect.
to those having a pop at the cyclist note this:
The 51-year-old motorist from Henley-on-Thames was cautioned by Thames Valley Police after he admitted committing a public order offence, assault, and making threats to commit criminal damage.
[url= http://road.cc/content/news/159864-police-caution-pratfall-road-rage-driver-video ]Driver admitted charges and was cautioned[/url]
He admitted the offence and the Police gave him a caution.
You would assume this came about after the Police saw the full video, the driver admitted he was at fault, the Police agreed, and the cyclist received no admonition whatsover - not for his road position, not for his approach to the driver, nor for riding on the pavement...
No-one involved, nor the Police have found the cyclist to be at fault...
FFS man, same team!
Uh... no. A step too far, methinks.
Reported!
No-one involved, nor the Police have found the cyclist to be at fault...
[i]Legally.[/i]
I don't think there was anything wrong with his road position, or him being narked at a stupid close pass, but giving chase to the driver so he could have a word was a daft thing to do.
Not illegal, just daft.
And here's exactly why that cyclist was riding in the "middle of the road" outside the door zone:
http://road.cc/content/news/159991-video-doored-cyclist-falls-path-black-cab
As ever, a tragic series of events:
1. Driver doesn't understand why the cyclist is riding so far from the parked cars - afterall, a car wouldn't do so.
2. Driver blasts past, infuriating the cyclist.
3. Cyclist, full or righteous indignation, decides to pursue driver and educate him as to his failings.
4. Cyclist clearly hasn't through through how this "conversation" may progress before engaging the individual, nor has he considered the fact that an individual driving a 16 year old Peugeot, [i]might[/i] not be at the point end of the intelligence spectrum yardstick...
5. As it turns out, the driver is seemingly uninterested/incapable of being educated by the cyclist...
6. Inevitably, what should've been a conversation, descends into an argument between two irritated individuals. This is where the wheels really fall off the wagon....
7. ...at this point the cyclist should've realised that there was absolutely [u][b]NO[/b][/u] point in taking to the man and simply said, "okay fella, no worries, have a good day" and been done with it.
8. what we're left with is another driver who (and assuming he didn't before) [b]HATES[/b] cyclists...nice job there, Video boy!
and now Nick Freeman wades in with
"The time has come for motorists to fight back and film cyclists breaking the law or riding irresponsibly,” he told Motoring.co.uk, adding: “How often do we see cyclists at night without any lights, jumping red lights, cycling the wrong way down one way streets, undertaking, cycling on the pavement or simply cycling down the middle of the road etc? Plenty!
“And these illegal actions challenge road safety by becoming a danger to themselves, to other road users and to pedestrians.”
No, the time has come for presumed liability, 5 yearly driver retests, more vehicle inspections and serious sentencing for petrol-crimes...
teasel - Member
FFS man, same team!
Uh... no. A step too far, methinks.Reported!
Eh? Really?
"The time has come for motorists to fight back and film cyclists breaking the law or riding irresponsibly,” he told Motoring.co.uk, adding: “How often do we see cyclists at night without any lights, jumping red lights, cycling the wrong way down one way streets, undertaking, cycling on the pavement or simply cycling down the middle of the road etc? Plenty!
As always, the 'anti' lobby have to use ignorance and made-up facts to justify their position:
1. Cycling the wrong way down one-way streets - may be (not always) a contra-flow cycle lane - quite a few of these in central London at least
2. Undertaking - as in, riding in the cycle lane provided by the council
3. Cycling in the middle of the road - as per Bikeability
Pretty worrying that he's trying to mobilise support based on this kind of ignorance - he's so wound up in the hatred that he's clearly not thought it through
Anyway, has pratfall man been named? I want to twitstalk him and ruin his life like we did with sweary-range-rover-and-plastic-jacket-cafe-owning-small-dick dude...
I regularly ride home over a hilly blind crest rat run, most car give plenty of space to me but are oblivious to the car coming the other way, many many times there's been locked up wheel or ABS judder and its just through utterly piss poor driving ability, nothing else.
I'm getting constant training to go onto construction sites safely, but once someone passes a driving test (even 60 years ago), off they go merrily about their business. No follow up anything until they get 12 points.
All getting predictably silly again with all sides wading in for more confrontation.
I ride in London every weekday and do a long ride back to the Essex heartlands via the East End once or twice a week. I regularly see some quite shocking behaviour from everyone and some of it downright dangerous. People are people. Some are nice, some are utter arses. Whether they be on a bike, moped, motorbike, driving a car, taxi, bus, truck, coach, lorry or even on foot.
I regularly see all the above jumping red lights (crossing at red for pedestrians). I also see them cutting each other up, being aggressive and generally being arses.
This morning there were notably more arses out. This is probably due to the impending tube strikes due to start later. On the cycling front there were more RLJs and generally selfish and arrogant riding, putting others and/or themselves at risk. I think these people hardly ever ride Bikes, but think they are road wise and are showing off that they are an awesome London cyclist. Well, they stick out like sore thumbs. Clueless idiots just waiting to be smeared over the road.
Anyway, the goading cyclist with a camera or the goading legal man with the ear of the media. Both as bad as each other and both doing nothing to make everything just a bit nicer
Driver admitted charges and was cautionedHe admitted the offence and the Police gave him a caution.
You would assume this came about after the Police saw the full video, the driver admitted he was at fault, the Police agreed, and the cyclist received no admonition whatsover - not for his road position, not for his approach to the driver, nor for riding on the pavement...
No-one involved, nor the Police have found the cyclist to be at fault...
A ****ing caution? Give me strength. That is why it is shit to commute by bike. Police and prosecutors need their arses kicked.
[i]most car give plenty of space to me but are oblivious to the car coming the other way[/i]
Happens so so often I hardly notice it...
Last week...
Ooh, a sign -
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What's that for then? This narrow bridge? on the blind bend? What are those pretty lights?
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Ugh. Bike. Must. Get. In. Front.
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Duh
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But of course, that only happened because I had my camera on and was looking for confrontation. 😆
[quote=hilldodger ]and now Nick Freeman wades in with
Yeah, well he's a **** who doesn't know the first thing about good driving. If you click through to the motoring article you'll find he's also asking for the usual full house of anti-cycling legislation
[quote=a ****y lawyer]The Government should consider introducing a raft of legislation which deals with identification, visibility, compliance with road traffic regulations, insurance, cycle excise licence and compulsory use of a helmet. This list is not exhaustive.
“The goal is to improve the quality of driving and cycling by both parties, thus increasing accountability and enhancing road safety.”
It's almost as if he has no understanding of the law at all
As a follow up to DezB's latest - I'm sure I've mentioned this on here before (probably in response to one of his previous posts): Approaching a local pinch point on a country lane I had a Rangy overtake me. Or rather it attempted to. Got alongside me before realising it wasn't actually going to get past before running headlong into the car coming the other way. Fortunately it didn't put me in the hedge, but both cars ended up having to stop. I took primary all the way from there to the next junction, though I think it was just stupidity rather than anything malicious and the driver was shocked as she hung well back rather than getting aggressive towards me.
"The time has come for motorists to fight back and film cyclists breaking the law or riding irresponsibly,"
In a way I welcome that because hopefully some of the antis will quickly learn that the "crimes" they are reporting are in fact perfectly legal and acceptable behaviour (as brooess pointed out).
The only issue is that they'll use it as a further justification for forcing cyclists to have number plates.
(because everyone knows that cars have number plates and as a direct result drivers never break any laws at all).
I'm sure the irony that if number plates prevented law breaking he wouldn't have a job is completely lost on him.
The time has come for motorists to fight back and film cyclists breaking the law or riding irresponsibly,
The level of whining from a privileged position you get from motorist on cycling related issues is absolutely extraordinary.
Motorists have literally billions of pounds poured into infrastructure for them, roads, lighting, fuel infrastructure. Huge swathes of land are given over to roads for cars to drive on and places for them to park. Most of the additional infrastructure added to roads like traffic lights, speed bumps, traffic islands is only there because motorist can't be trusted to obey speed limits or navigate through junctions without being told when to stop and go.
That's just the direct impact, lets also consider having to deal with shady regimes all over the world to get oil in first place. Or the huge impact of pollution from motor vehicles on the environment and human health. What about obesity due to inactivity and that cost to society?
And lets not forgot that thousands are killed and seriously injured by motor vehicles every year.
But "Oh no's a cyclist ran a red light"
Cry me a ****in river princesses