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Everyone I ride with has eebs and manual bikes.
Generally we all try and ride the same type of bikes on a group ride.
Just works better for everyone.
If for whatever reason there's a mix of bikes it's no big deal with any eebers just doing a few extra climbs and everyone getting on with it.
Anyone that showed dickish behaviour to someone else because of their choice of bike would no longer be welcome in the group.
You'll find, group rides aside, you'll end up grabbing the eeb and going out for a blast on your own more often too.
Like I did tonight - finished a draining day at work, couldn't really be bothered. No way I'd have taken the normal bike out.
13 miles, 1600ft, average 11mph with a fair chunk of techy stuff, 2 (e)KOM's and 4 trophies later, big grins 👍
Waiting for folk isn’t an issue. Is it?
Have you ever been the fat lad at the back? You get to the top of a climb blowing out of your arse only for the racing snakes to announce that now the group is finally back together they’re dropping in so you never actually get a chance to recover.
Doomanic
Have you ever been the fat lad at the back? You get to the top of a climb blowing out of your arse only for the racing snakes to announce that now the group is finally back together they’re dropping in so you never actually get a chance to recover.
That's the exact behaviour a couple of the eMTB owners in our group exhibit now they are no longer the ones blowing off the back along with "I'm getting cold/hot", "I've been waiting for ages".
That’s the exact behaviour a couple of the eMTB owners in our group exhibit now they are no longer the ones blowing off the back along with “I’m getting cold/hot”, “I’ve been waiting for ages”.
That's exactly the opposite to what I and other e-mtb riders in our group do. In fact myself and another eeber hung around at the back on a recent ride with a noob who was blowing out of his arse. The racing snakes are still the worst ones for doing that
People will always be dicks eeb or not
TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR
That’s exactly the opposite to what I and other e-mtb riders in our group do. In fact myself and another eeber hung around at the back on a recent ride with a noob who was blowing out of his arse.
It's exactly the opposite to what I do on group rides (whether I'm on the eMTB or not) along with pretty much everyone else that has an eMTB in the group but a couple of dicks has set the expectations of quite a few of the group
That’s exactly the opposite to what I and other e-mtb riders in our group do. In fact myself and another eeber hung around at the back on a recent ride with a noob who was blowing out of his arse.
As someone who's been the person blowing out his arse whilst the ebikers peddle along effortlessly it's not the positive thing you seem to think it is.
As someone who’s been the person blowing out his arse whilst the ebikers peddle along effortlessly it’s not the positive thing you seem to think it is.
He's made his choice, just bought a new bike and chose analogue.
I'm 100% certain he appreciated it more than there being literally none of the group within eyesight as he nearly died and didn't really know where he was going. I turned the motor off at one point
Mention to your mates that you’re thinking of getting an ebike for the reasons you’ve listed and gauge their reaction.
Their response, "that's it, we'll all have to get one now" 😄
If you trained and got really fit would you look for a different group of mates to ride with who could keep up with you?
I probably would at least for the majority of rides. In general I like to just ride my bike, no stopping or faffing about. I'll do this either on my own or with a few friend's of similar ability. Not seeing the fun in very mixed ability groups, byt each to there own so whatever works.
As someone who’s been the person blowing out his arse whilst the ebikers peddle along effortlessly it’s not the positive thing you seem to think it is.
I'd find it incredibly patronising if someone did this, I know the intention would be supportive but in the moment I'd be asking them to be supportive elsewhere 😂
My mate now cruises alongside me and talks to me as I'm panting, the same way I used to do to him.
We're mates, it's all good.
doomanic
see my comment on page 1 about rule 1…
Yes. It’s fine. Unless your group is full of rule 1 breakers.
that's the thing the group doesn't need to be "full of" ,it just takes a couple and whereby that can be said to be true without eMTB the eMTB enables this if not somehow "managed". (It also depends what individuals class as dickish behaviour - how far do you cater for people with obvious mental health issues?)
Our group always did 2 main types of rides (and adhoc) so we would have inclusive rides at the slowest pace and ensuring they get rests and a friendly route and "expect to be going as fast as possible at all times" rides.
(We also have "lets dick about in the woods then go to the pub" rides)
For the sake of brevity lets just call them "fast/slow/fun"
"slow" could be tech ability or fitness,
"fast" will or won't include "big drops" and "big gaps" - that is we don't really cater for anyone not happy with what would be a "black", it's assumed but also explicitly said - basically if we are going from A-B in the "fast" group we just choose a route and don't really think about making it specifically accessible or we might take in some fun features ..
Most (not all but nearly) of the riders who'd be in the "fast group" also did the "slow" rides and treat it as a social or sometimes we split a ride and meet up at various points or do a morning/afternoon where we do a slow social and those who wanna do a "real ride" do so after. People have kids and stuff so sometimes they can't make the morning so then if they want a "slow social" we'd do the "fast ride" earlier and social later... There are a couple of people like doing "daft stuff" but struggle with fitness and we cater for them by for example chucking in daft optional stuff on a social or the "dick around in the woods". We also had a "rule" that anyone being a dick on social rides was "invited" to join the "fast group".
This all worked pretty well up to eMTB's... but more specifically 2 people with eMTB's.
Before that though it then led to splits into more sub-groups... we had a "fast/slow" rides for real bikes and eMTB rides.. and since most of the eMTB owners were also the ones going on "fast rides" no specific "slow/social eMTB".
We (a few of the faster group who also had eMTB's) started doing some slow/social eMTB specifically for one bloke as he was wrecking all the other rides for everyone else. He'd turn up on a social rides and then beast beginners on real bikes then give them shit about how he's been waiting ages and getting cold before setting off and leaving them or complain when we took a easier climb or route but that didn't stop him inviting himself to any of the other rides and continuing to ruin them. Ultimately he'd drag a few people off with him (including his adult son) because he'd create confusion... otherwise we'd just let him go... but try organising a "no drop ride" where one or two people have the sole aim of dropping people on real bikes as their definition of fun.
(The other has never ridden a real MTB and comes from MX so he's to a large extent just following the lead of 1st bloke and he can keep up on the fast rides)
So now we have no "social rides" or even "fast rides" that aren't arranged secretly .. group rides stating "no e-bikes" get crashed and ruined all because 1-2 people act like dicks... I still get invited to more rides than I can make it's just by direct messages and specifically told "don't tell XXX" then we still get "why were you guys parked at ... and you didn't invite me"
short of getting very personal naming the person/people in the group and saying they specifically aren't invited or kicking them out of the group what else can we do?
That’s a really long winded way of saying some people are dicks. 🙄
I was slower up the hills last night on my 50lb emtb in eco/trail than my mate on his 25lb (guesstimate) titanium HT
Doomanic
That’s a really long winded way of saying some people are dicks.
It's why it only takes a couple of dicks on eMTB's to wreck a riding group and why the group doesn't need to be "full of dicks" when eMTB's get involved.
The short version is eMTB's are enablers for dicks
Nah, the short version is, If someone is being a dick, tell them.. Otherwise, well, it's your fault as much as theirs.
It's not school where you may get excluded from the cool kids group.... it's grown ups.
yes perfectly acceptable so long as you explain you have a heart condition for which your meds (beta blockers) prevent you from attaining a heart rate above 90bpm and that you ride an e-mtb simply to keep up. Therefore remain anonymous within the group and certainly don't go off the front or lead/pace unless requested. Remain in eco and even better get a super light ebike with its reduced power output rather than the full-fat version.
Unless you're throwing up at the top of the climb, you could push harder.
The short version is eMTB’s are enablers for dicks
Dicks on bikes existed way before ebikes were a thing.
Not in Stevextc’s world apparently.
Dicks on bikes existed way before ebikes were a thing
True, but as they generally needed to be fit there were far less of them.
flyingpotatoes
Dicks on bikes existed way before ebikes were a thing.
Totally, however eMTB's have the potential to be a enabler or amplifier and do that in ways that groups of riders of real bikes don't necessarily have experience or group customs to deal with.
Gribs
True, but as they generally needed to be fit there were far less of them.
Well, lots of ways to be a dick on a bike... it's not exclusive.
weeksy
Nah, the short version is, If someone is being a dick, tell them.. Otherwise, well, it’s your fault as much as theirs.
There are only so many ways to tell someone without straying into rule #1
A lot of truth in that but its also more complicated in a bigger mixed ability group..
in a very mixed ability group of 25/30 who's job is that? (a few of the more experienced riders have had words with a couple of them - one more successfully than the other.. )
How many times do you believe them when they say they won't do it again?
What about the beginners for whom their 1st no drop group ride with the group was ruined? and we tell them sorry... then same happens on their 2nd group ride? ( this is where the group has really suffered with those of lesser ability or self confidence just quitting - its not really had a direct impact on me or the other "more experienced" ones you meet at races..
If this was a non eMTB then it would be a case of "if you want to do climbs at that speed and not wait for the stragglers you should just come to the "more advanced group rides"... except no one wants them on the smaller group ruining that as well because they "don't do steep, gaps or drops".
When a group ride is explicitly no eBikes and they turn up on one (with their son who's a really good bloke) then again what do you do? Tell them you aren't welcome but your son is because he's not a dick when they again promise not to do the same thing and have no intention whatsoever of sticking to it then one of the newer beginners say's "Oh it's OK so long as we don't get dropped" or "Maybe I shouldn't come" ?
Then you eventually get to the "it's a public forest you can't stop me"
Or you get to the top of a climb encouraging the last one and riding with them to find out the dick has already got everyone ready to leave and then sets off taking unsuspecting riders with them.
weeksy
It’s not school where you may get excluded from the cool kids group…. it’s grown ups.
You'd think so except I suspect for the problem eMTBers it is like school and they regard the "more advanced" rides as being "the cool kids", not some guys and gals just want to ride more demanding stuff sometimes.
One of the problem eMTB riders actually listened and mainly does the more advanced rides and mainly lets those not on eBikes take a break - not perfect but decent enough... and a bit too little too late as we barely have any of the less experienced riders left.
The other seems to think they can buy their way into what they presumably see as the "cool kids" ???
According to Aa couple of those that have not blocked him on every social media DM he still stalks them and asks "I saw your car parked why didn't you invite me?"
We went out Sat, 3 manuals, 1 Emtb. Eeber sat at the back all day in the group, mostly cruising along apart from 1 road section when i pushed 19mph just for giggles 😉
He didn't overtake anyone apart from 1 hill but that was at the request of one of the manuals to "show us how it climbs then"...
Eeber... happy, manuals, happy 🙂
Exactly how hard is it to say to everyone at the start of a ride: “if you’re on an ebike, please be considerate”? And then expand on what that means, if need be.
I went for a ride with two 20 year olds. And I didn't die 🙂 My son insisted I went at the front so that he could try to keep up. He did on the long climb (though I did leave it in eco). On the descent he said he was quicker round the bends but I pulled away on the straights. Brilliant fun.
chiefgrooveguru
Exactly how hard is it to say to everyone at the start of a ride: “if you’re on an ebike, please be considerate”?
eBike or not everyone gets told the same on a no drop ride...
The problem is what do you do if they say they will and then don't.
weeksy
We went out Sat, 3 manuals, 1 Emtb. Eeber sat at the back all day in the group, mostly cruising along apart from 1 road section when i pushed 19mph just for giggles
Thats quite a different scenario to 25 riders on a no drop ride with 3-4 their first time out... and a couple of eMTBers who are determined to **** the ride up for them.
Thats quite a different scenario to 25 riders on a no drop ride with 3-4 their first time out… and a couple of eMTBers who are determined to **** the ride up for them.
Why the F you'd consider going on a ride with 25 people especially when you know several are aholes, i have no idea at all. I honestly can't think of a worse ride than trying to ride with that many people.
<p style="padding-left: 40px;">I was always that fat lad at the back. The group I ride with are all consistently fitter and faster but being basically roadies they slow when it gets technical allowing me to catch up. Since I bought an emtb I have tried to remain with the group and not fly off. This has had a strange affect on the strongest in the group. He was always very tolerant of waiting for me but now he doesn't have to, he is very grumpy when I turn up on the ebike. You'ld think he would be grateful not having to hang about but no. Perhaps he was nearer the limit than he liked to admit and needed the rests!</p>
I honestly can’t think of a worse ride than trying to ride with that many people.
Agreed! I remember going on a few, the ones who think they're fast but aren't riding at the front! Out of 25 there's gonna be some dicks!
Most of my experience riding with e-bike riders has been good. They keep to the pace of the group etc. One rider I know who wasn’t particularly strong on a bike became an absolute pita when he got an e-bike. The newly acquired super powers most certainly went to his head 🤣
“The problem is what do you do if they say they will and then don’t.”
It’s quite simple. If the e-bikers want to ride off on their own then they can. It’s then down to everyone else to be considerate and hold back for the slower riders.
The problem is what do you do if they say they will and then don’t
When you get to them
"oi mate, have a word with yourself, either ride with the group or bugger off"
group mountain bike rides of 25 people sound like hell regardless of whether there are any ebikes in the group or not. Cant imagine why you'd choose to be part of that. Cant you split into smaller groups of 5 or 6?
anything over about 5 or 6 people and it starts to become difficult with either different paces (both up and down), mechanicals etc
They can be good fun but you need a clearly designated leader and deputy to control things. And tubeless tyres!
weeksy
Why the F you’d consider going on a ride with 25 people especially when you know several are aholes, i have no idea at all. I honestly can’t think of a worse ride than trying to ride with that many people.
We do inclusive group rides and then rides where a few of us have more fun...
WHY ?
Partly the same reason I/we build/maintain trails/features I'm not personally that into riding, partly because people have kids, relatives, friends etc. they want to introduce to MTB.
but also ...a few of us often 2 group rides in a day at weekend ... or maybe want a recovery day or just an easy day pre-race etc. sometimes a bunch of us will do an early morning ride and be totally knackered then do a social ride after lunch for example
It's all made clear in "what to expect" but then some dicks just want to hijack it.
Example "Title" - "Will someone show me and the kids around SH" (from one of the fairly regular riders) - "subtitle " - "I'm not that confident at not getting lost". (This was about 10-12 parents and kids)
So turning up at Peaslake on an eMTB and then trying to get everyone "over Holmbury to do Wet and Wild then we can pop over Winterfold to do Trouser Snake and Northern" with 6yr old beginners in the group is just stupid to start off so it's suggested they just go and do that with anyone that fancies and those of us turning up for the beginner kids ride do our own thing...
Only noone wants to go because those of us would have done it (I'd already committed to showing around) turned up on real bikes and we know full well they will be in Turbo till their battery is flat and the other eMTB dick couldn't even get down crackpipe or the start of Northern Monkey.
So both of the ones turned up on eMTB's decide to ride with the group (+1 eMTB with embarrassed son of one of them) then beast every hill and set off the second the last kid gets to the top - get caught up, told to cool it or **** off on their own ride and do the same again and again...
That's just one example...and to some extent it could happen without an eMTB the difference though is the riders who don't ride eMTB and have been known to be a bit dickish from time to time don't usually come on a "social ride" or if they do tend to moderate themselves, even if it takes a couple of prompts.
We used to be an inclusive group... well above "the average" for girls of all ages, welcoming to beginners if they stuck to the inclusive rides.
Out of the 2 (+1) one still comes on the more advanced rides and since we don't even do beginner rides anymore given they all left the group that is what it is. The other quit the group (taking his poor long suffering son with him)
it's admirable.... but...seems somewhat bonkers and completely frustrating 🙂
julians
group mountain bike rides of 25 people sound like hell regardless of whether there are any ebikes in the group or not. Cant imagine why you’d choose to be part of that. Cant you split into smaller groups of 5 or 6?
anything over about 5 or 6 people and it starts to become difficult with either different paces (both up and down), mechanicals etc
We do (well did) split on the really big group rides ... I think the max simultaneous groups was 3 once but more usually 2 on a Swinley group ride. Being Swinley the beginner group can do a load of shortcuts and still meet the faster group 4/5 times. Even on the split in 2 rides we try and have clear fireroad alternatives if anyone doesn't feel like a tech part
mrdoberman
Most of my experience riding with e-bike riders has been good. They keep to the pace of the group etc. One rider I know who wasn’t particularly strong on a bike became an absolute pita when he got an e-bike. The newly acquired super powers most certainly went to his head
^^^ This exactly ^^^ except he thought his uphill superpowers allowed him to ride with the more advanced group and then moaned when our route involved any steep decents, gaps or drops which were like kryptonite... so instead tried to turn the beginners group into what his new superpowers actually worked with.
group mountain bike rides of 25 people sound like hell regardless of whether there are any ebikes in the group or not.
I completely agree, I try my best to avoid busy areas when on the bike or hiking so I just don't understand why somebody would arrange to meet a traffic jam and then take part in it. Ditto sportives, races and other mass events.
I appreciate others will have different opinions and I'm not claiming everybody should be an antisocial bugger like me 🙂
“then beast every hill and set off the second the last kid gets to the top – get caught up, told to cool it or **** off on their own ride and do the same again and again…”
Again, it’s not complicated - if they ride off without waiting, let them go! The rest of the group can hang back like sensible humans who understand that empathy is required if you’re going to have group rides that everyone enjoys.
Maybe I get really militant about this because my Dad had a heart problem and back in the ‘80s we started MTBing together when I was small.
Although it was good for his health I always had to be aware not to go too fast uphill in case it literally killed him - so I don’t have much tolerance for people being competitive ****s, especially if they’re being enabled by a motor.
Being Swinley the beginner group can do a load of shortcuts and still meet the faster group 4/5 times. Even on the split in 2 rides we try and have clear fireroad alternatives if anyone doesn’t feel like a tech part
Swinley
Tech?
I don’t have much tolerance for people being competitive ****, especially if they’re being enabled by a motor.
Just a minor point of order:
You can't be competitive uphill on an eebike. It's a contradiction in terms.
“Just a minor point of order:
You can’t be competitive uphill on an eebike. It’s a contradiction in terms.”
But it’s not though, is it? Cars have been doing hill climb competitions for well over a hundred years.
Again, it’s not complicated – if they ride off without waiting, let them go!
I’m amazed it’s taken this long to reach that conclusion, but then the world’s most anti-eeb ebiker wouldn’t have anything to moan about.