[Closed] E mountain bikes a dilemma

Lol @ fergal
Ive been riding mountain bikes for 30 years, i think i have a fair idea what a mountain bike is.
If you think it takes no effort to ride one, you are wrong, everone who has tried mine comes back breathless.
PS. You are correct, I don't want to be on the same trails as you, but luckily we live in a free country, so we can both go where we like.

fergal - Member

Whats going further got to do with anything, you are not putting the effort in, like i said it is a different sport, a bicycle is self propelled, an Ebike has a motor.

By all means buy into the ebike trend, it's a sign of the times, people are less willing to put the effort in and get a quick fix, YOU ARE NOT A MOUNTAIN BIKER.

PS. I don't want you on the same trails as me, we are talking trails for mtbing, not people going for a blast around a lake shore or commuting, i mean proper trails.

Seriously ! Did you actually write that as a serious comment ? Man that's just bizarre ! Beyond words.

I'm not an advocoate of Ebikes in the slightest, i've barely ridden one.. but many people are not blessed with physical attributes that allow them to reach and do trails that are great... so this is a way for them to be able to do so....

Look i'm just playing devils advocate somebody has to, i really don't like the way the ebike trend is taking us and manufacturers cashing in yet again.

PS. Not really being serious to be honest, beware the cycling nazi!.

but many people are not blessed with physical attributes that allow them to reach and do trails that are great

This may be true in many cases, but in an equal number of cases it translates into 'i'm a tub of lard and can't be arsed actually riding my bike cos it makes me sweaty and out of breath'

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fifeandy - Member
This may be true in many cases, but in an equal number of cases it translates into 'i'm a tub of lard and can't be arsed actually riding my bike cos it makes me sweaty and out of breath'

Yet again another nay sayer who has no experience of e-mtbing.

fergal - Member
Look i'm just playing devils advocate somebody has to

Really?..

fergal - Member
The lengths lazy bastards will go to.

fergal - Member
Don't expect much succour from the lazy, cake quaffing hourdes on singletrack, just the thought of pedaling sends them into cold sweats.

In the not to distant future, we will be in the minority, while the fat minions are propelled efortlesly around grinning while trashing the trails.

Did i really post that, no shit sherlock.

I bought mine because I weigh 20 stone, and i cant actually ride up anything steep for more than a few hundred yards, i aim to get 5 years out of it, and hopefully my fitness will have improved to the point where i can switch back to a normal bike.
Its been a new lease of life for me, ive done more miles in the last 6 months than I have in the last couple of years.
I wouldn't have wanted one when i was 18, (well, I would have wanted to try one, obviously) but im not 18 any more.
Its just another technical advancement, like indexed gears, wide tyres, front suspension, full suspension, hydraulic brakes, dropper posts, etc etc etc . . .
I doubt that many people who have a carbon full susser that cost £4k would want to go back to a gas pipe townsend with non indexed gears and non existent brakes would they?

p.s. I wonder what comedy fergal thinks of uplift days? I think an e-bike would be quite a good solution to that, just a bit pricey for now.

Its just another technical advancement, like indexed gears, wide tyres, front suspension, full suspension, hydraulic brakes, dropper posts, etc etc etc . . .
I doubt that many people who have a carbon full susser that cost £4k would want to go back to a gas pipe townsend with non indexed gears and non existent brakes would they?

No it's not , the things you mention make cycling easier but all the power comes from the person riding the bike , add an electric motor and what you are doing is not cycling .

Its just another technical advancement, like indexed gears, wide tyres, front suspension, full suspension, hydraulic brakes, dropper posts, etc etc etc . . .

no really, none of those give you any assistence I think. Suspension can allow you to ride further though, at least XC suspension does.

No it's not , a bicycle is a human powered vehicle , anything else and you are not cycling

It's not powered by the battery/engine, it's assisted. You can't just jump on it and off you go... you have to help it along.

Yet again another nay sayer who has no experience of e-mtbing.

Actually, not so much.
I'm not even sure i'm against people buying them to compensate for being a tub of lard. Mostly, getting people out on their bikes that otherwise wouldn't be is a good thing.
Lets say i'm firmly sat on the fence for now.

For the sake of argument we could also ask how many people only think climbing is hard as they've been somewhat misled.
For example take a plucky weekend warrior who reads the magazines which tell him he absolutely HAS to have a 160mm endurosled with super gnarrmax soft compound tyres in quadruple ply casing. What they didn't tell him is that the tyres are going to eat 100W of his power output as rolling resistance, and the rear shock is going to eat another 25W even 'locked out', leaving him with only 15W to propel him grunting and wheezing up the hill at 1.7mph.
Maybe what he needs is a light/efficient hardtail not an e-bike?

I'd go with saving up for an e-bike conversion kit, then you can at least take it off the bike if/when you get fit enough.

My knees ache as well but start aching less if I do exercises/activity and get my leg muscles more in shape.

It's easy to be defeatest about age, but I read recently "Fit after 50" by that Joel guy, who wrote the book after being dropped for the first time from the front peleton on a race, at something like 68.

Save up for the kit, meantime get some more rides in, and maybe runs if you can as I found them much more beneficial at killing the lethargy.

Maybe get a trainer and sign-up to Zwift or trainerroad?

Do more rides climbing and spinning out of the saddle, I found that helped my knees a lot.

Try to aim to get fit enough to not get the e-bike kit if possible.

If you just can't get your physical condition good enough, then go for the kit.

I'm with fergal - just get your fitness back - it doesn't take many 15 mile road rides

If you get an e-bike you'll be cheating yourself and you'll never get back to the same level of fitness you were at

I recently done a big ride out with a chap on an e-bike. He was at the top of all the climbs first and wasn't even out of breath

He even commented later on that it was difficult for him to pace himself against our low speed

Make of that what you want- but i'm firmly in the camp that an e-bike should never be used as a fitness substitute - fine for medical conditions/proper old age - but not as a substitute

Move over BikeRadar; https://electricbikereview.com/

The demographics drop into the 50 somethings http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2009/09/electric-bike-demographics.html

I need a life

Edit: That said, what if the Govt gave grants for people buying ebikes? I think they assist eCar owners, is an eCar not a car?

So, folk who use assistance aren't cycling?

[url= https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity ]*cough*[/url]

So, folk who use assistance aren't cycling?

*cough* gravity

😯 You mean Im a fitness cheating idle fat tub of lard gravity using minion?

thats the thing.. its a shortcut that artificially puts you a couple months ahead in the fitness stakes. but at the loss of not having a nippy (chuckable) bike under you.

it all depends on what you ride. if you ride boring places, you could be boring for longer 😀

but, when you switch to a normal bike, you're still less fit. in fact probably more demoralised because its been made easier for you. if you put the effort in you do get rewarded. you don't start running fresh or after a break and expect to be doing good mileage, so why expect that on a bike?

i'd like to hire one to scout places to ride later on my real bike or try out my commute on (which is a bit too much on a normal bike for me to do regularly - i have done it one way, and didn't like the train back)

(fifeandy - was replying to first part of your post and agree with the second part too..)

but, when you switch to a normal bike, you're still less fit

Nah, not in the slightest.

If you'd done say 0 miles becuase of lack of fitness in the last 2 years and now do 500 miles assisted, you're still fitter.

Of course, if you'd done 400 miles non-assisted then yes you'd be fitter than above, but the simple fact is, this seems to be a choice between 0 and some... if it's 0 it's 0... nothing is changing that. They're not getting out, simple as that.

fergal - Member
Look i'm just playing devils advocate somebody has to, i really don't like the way the ebike trend is taking us and manufacturers cashing in yet again...

You don't have to participate or swallow the marketing. Much the same was said at the time of the introduction of gears, and then suspension.

Singlespeed is the perfectly cromulent approach to cycling, but maybe you should embiggen your attitude by tolerating the gearies, the bouncy boys, and the eBike zappers. 🙂

I presume you ride a rigid[b] fixed gear[/b] singlespeed

Ftfy

Its been a new lease of life for me, ive done more miles in the last 6 months than I have in the last couple of years.

I think martymac wins this argument hands down. Chapeau. I'd ride with you any day. And race you up the hills on my rigid fixed singlespeed!

but the simple fact is, this seems to be a choice between 0 and some... if it's 0 it's 0... nothing is changing that.

I think it's fairly common when you start riding again after a long lay off, without other exercise to replace the cycling, to be disappointed with your initial performance.

I tried a comeback with a few mates but I thought I was holding them back and only did one ride feeling even more disillusioned and fed up with myself.

Mitsumonkey, you only did [u]one[/u] ride with your mates: that first ride is always going to be the hardest (and potentially harder than a first solo ride, because you are trying to keep up with them).

It sounds to me as if you are getting overly disappointed and anxious with your initial performance and are looking to somehow fix things quickly. In your situation I think an e-bike would be an unnecessary expensive mistake, since you know that you can increase your fitness level, unlike someone who is infirm or has serious health problems. You just need to manage (reduce) your own expectations and get out and ride, and enjoy the ride for what it is, rather than worrying about whether you are fast enough, and let the improvement come naturally.

In your circumstances, I would be concerned that if I bought an e-bike as a quick fix solution, it would become a crutch that would get in the way of naturally improving fitness and one which I would struggle to give up, especially since you would have to sell your current bike.

Have your spoken to your mates about being worried that you are holding them up? If I were your mate, I would be telling you not be so daft, stop worrying, and come out on the next ride.

Yeah, the lazy thinking of a lazy ebiker! 😉

Slowster - bang on the money!!

I agree with slowster, but at the same time, do whatever it takes to get you out.

Tired, you would probably beat me bud

tomhoward - Member
I presume you ride a rigid fixed gear singlespeed
Ftfy

You seem to be struggling to tell the difference between something that helps you to make the most of what power you have got and something that adds power from another source .

Whilst I can see the benefits for someone who can't ride a standard bike for some reason - long term illness, disability, weight, etc. I'm increasingly seeing groups of apparently fit and healthy individuals up at Haldon on them. Not quite sure of the appeal if you're just blasting around a trail centre, seems like it would get boring quite quickly. But on the other hand I doubt that many of the people that these 'bikes' appeal to are going to be troubling any of my local natural trails any time soon.

I'm also not sure how the group I ride with would react to someone rocking up on one....if it was a regular then they'd expect some serious piss taking (assuming they hadn't lost a leg or owt)....but someone new? Might not be viewed as being 'quite cricket' if you know what I mean.

It isn't cricket, and these ebikes are the prime example of why mountain biking is the new golf. Unless you are seriously physically debilitated you are just a fat lazy prick with too much money.

And what about the environment aspect of the manufacture and disposal of the batteries? whilst im all for getting people out of cars and onto bikes for commuting, this is entirely different..

embrace the challenge of the human condition.

Utter toss. A bike is a bike whether it has some assistance or not. If some bellend got snotty about someone who has one joining a group ride, then that not the sort of group ride I would want to be part of.

'i'm a tub of lard and can't be arsed actually riding my bike cos it makes me sweaty and out of breath'

Not gonna to like Ebikes then.

tomhoward - Member
'I presume you ride a rigid [b]fixed gear[/b] singlespeed'
Ftfy

That's definitely [i]fixed[/i] it. 🙂

I must apologise though, especially to fergal.

When I posted that it was witty and ironic in my head. Re-reading it I'm not so sure. So if I sounded like an arse, sorry.

BTW once I'm old and frail enough, I'm definitely getting an eBike.

Okay so a few weeks ago I'm out on my e bike at local trail centre

couple of guys were asking about it. Not long into conversation they mention the old "cheating " line

I mentioned it allows me to do more miles and therefore have more fun. I explained I had ridden 12 miles to trail centre do about 14 mile route and then the 12 miles home about 38 miles

Asked them.

Turns out they drive to trail centre. Do 9 mile route and then drive home. Which seems pretty
Commonplace now a days

Sorry who is cheating ?
And who is getting most exercise?
And who is having more fun ?

Get one if you want, they are great.

I dont ride an e-bike but my father does and it's the best recent investment he's taken.

Back on the trails enjoying them again 🙂 ...me chasing:-(

He is 77.

PS I like the carbon mondraker e-bike and spesh levo.
PPS His bike is a Giant Dirt-e
PPPS The only downside it's quite heavy, but this does not affect him as I got to lift it over the gates -(

Sorry who is cheating ?
And who is getting most exercise?
And who is having more fun ?

They just sound lazy. I ride 35+ milers off-road from my house. If I do drive to a trail centre I'm probably going to do a bit more than 9 miles. Did 20 the other week at Haldon, though that included parking at a mates house nearby, doing loads of off-piste, and then back down the hill via some bridleways. Suffice to say I'm not really the target market for an ebike. However, unless you really cannot ride a normal bike for health reasons then (IMO anyway) it's lazy, and not proper cycling - however you choose to define that.

Sorry who is cheating ?

And who is getting most exercise?

however. you did longer (probably) so maybe you.

And who is having more fun ?

don't forget their base fitness levels are probably very different from yours.

9 miles may well benefit them more than it would to you riding their bikes. for the exact same amount of time..

Unless you are seriously physically debilitated you are just a fat lazy prick with too much money.

So just how 'debilitated' do I have to be to not be a fat (175lb, 6') lazy prick, and how little do I have to spend to not have too much money?

@ramsey,
Fixed allows you to go as fast as you can pedal.
A freewheel allows you to use gravity to assist you on the downs to whatever speed you have the incline/cojones for.
An ebike allows you to use the motor to assist you on the ups, up to 25kph, as long as you put some effort in (usually ~200w at top speed), unlike gravity.

Ban the freewheel menace!!!1!!1one!

closer to Motorcross with slippers!

Still struggling with the concept Tom .

ajantom - Member
Not quite sure of the appeal if you're just blasting around a trail centre, seems like it would get boring quite quickly

The same would be true for the superfit folks among us also? 😆 what utter nonsense.