Pina-colada - very 1970s, I have one with my Prawn Cocktail 😆
It's not that I don't ride trail centres, it's that I prefer not to. There's a difference, it's not even a subtle difference. (and it's spelt "centre" 😉 )
The best natural rides are better than any trail centre rides.
The worst natural rides are worse than any trail centre rides.
I prefer natural trails but here they are often busy with walkers and dogs so trail centers are better at busy times of the year. It's so nice being able to ride quickly knowing the only other people out there are also on bikes. Some quicker and some are slower but that doesn't bother me. They're are all into the same thing and lots are up for a chat too.
faz71 - Member
@Poopscoop
I've just started reading The Old Ways by Rob McFarlane on that very subject. I think you would enjoy it.
Nine find mate, just read up on it thanks to you, going to order that!
Thanks for the recommendation.
[quote=whitestone ]It's about what others might see in trail centres that I don't.
Here's a couple to get you going Bob.
(a) When conditions are really shit and you know you'll be creating/contributing to trail erosion, a trail centre is more likely to have a weather-resistant design and surface. It's also more likely to be maintained.
(b) For skills practice. Trail centre features are generally designed to be ridden and are often accessible in a manner that lets them be ridden repeatedly. On a longer "natural" ride I'm very unlikely to go back over something, even if I was crap the first time. And those skills also apply to natural rides when you take them on again.
FWIW, I've been to Laggan and Glentress once each this year - about half what I did in the whole of 2016.
I don't know why but I just like riding tracks that have been there since way before bikes were even thought of.
Me too, but it's not an exclusive thing. Just because I like that doesn't also mean I can't like trail centres.
Plus most of these old roads have been tarmacked and turned into country lanes. And most of the main local trails here are old access tracks to small workings that have disappeared, but they probably date back to the era of the bicycle's invention.
Pic of what I tried to describe earlier.
Long flowing trail with a pretty steep gradient. Banks on either side much taller than me with the trees almost making it a tunnel. Riding it at night is incredible. See the badgers roaming about to.
Different every time I ride it. Branches across the tail, huge pieces of flint or chalk thrown down onto it by the burrowing badgers. It almost has a personality of its own.
[url= https://s28.postimg.org/nxo0800hp/IMG_20170707_174444_1.jp g" target="_blank">
That links to this monolith eventually.
The White Horse Stone. Lots of little "remembrances" tied to the trees near it by new age types or people that just want to make a memory there. To say they passed.
Romantic rubbish but that's why I love natural trails. They don't care about me and definitely not the bike. I'm just the latest traveller to pass through them.
[url= https://s28.postimg.org/ludl0c0ot/IMG_20170707_185030_1.jp g" target="_blank">
Again, not putting down tail centres. Just trying to express what I love about where I ride. It's a personal thing isn't it?
Ride what you love.
Get yer shovel out, make that big stane a drop off.
Sorted.
Nobeerinthefridge - Member
Get yer shovel out, make that big stane a drop off.
Sorted.
Yeah,I kind of deserved that didn't I? 😀
😆
At least you weren't overbiked for it ... 😀
iainc - Member
At least you weren't overbiked for it ...
Oi! I mince in style mate! 😀
Yep, me too ! (Before nobeer says it ! ) 🙂
Natural trails all day long. The fact red can become black in a second. That puddle might be 12ft deep etc.
Both, either, whatever is best.
When I was in the lakes being able to bounce around Whinlatter when everything else was sodden was great or nip up after work for a solo ride knowing that you wouldn't be out alone.
7 Stanes, N Wales and the S Wales stuff gives a lot of bang for your buck riding and great social days out there. Being able to give it a little more knowing nobody is climbing bu the trails is great.
Other parts of the world having some nice man made steep and rocky trails, stuff that can't be rolled and other proper features makes for a great day out. Mix it up with some uplifts and off you go.
It also keeps you well away from the "Don't you know I never ride TC" types which is a bonus
iainc - Member
Yep, me too ! (Before nobeer says it ! )
Hypocrite! 😀 😉
The concept of "natural trails" vs "trail centres" is an interesting one. I know it's different on open ground, but in the woods of the south where I often ride we have tons of fantastic singletrack plus gnarlier downhill runs - none of it is "trail centre", almost none of it is official, merely tolerated, and almost none of it would be rideable if the trails hadn't been made by mountain bikers.
Because they're unofficial the surface is natural but the shape of the trails, the berms, the jumps, the drops, are built almost as much as at trail centres but with a lot more randomness!
I do think many folk are making a false assumption that non-trail centre = some featureless moorland. Much of what I ride locally falls into the stuff you mention above.I know it's different on open ground, but in the woods of the south where I often ride we have tons of fantastic singletrack plus gnarlier downhill runs - none of it is "trail centre", almost none of it is official, merely tolerated
Dunno. Never been to a 'trail centre'.
Dunno. Never been to a 'trail centre'.
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Dunno. Never been to a 'trail centre'.
Why the quotes? It's what they are called.
Mountain biking is one of those activities that can be either an outdoor pursuit or an extreme sport. The actual riding can be pretty similar, but in ethos trail centres are on one side of the line and bridleways are on the other.
Doesn't matter though. It's just lines. Ride what you like. For me, that's all of it.
^^ Absolutely mate. Ride what you love.
either an outdoor pursuit or an extreme sport. The actual riding can be pretty similar, but in ethos trail centres are on one side of the line and bridleways are on the other.
Which is which? I can put examples of both that are on both sides of that line.
[quote=molgrips ]Mountain biking is one of those activities that can be either an outdoor pursuit or an extreme sport. The actual riding can be pretty similar, but in ethos trail centres are on one side of the line and bridleways are on the other.
Nah.
Lots of mountain biking sport takes place outside of trail centres and it's certainly not an extreme sport for most folk riding at trail centres - it's a leisure pursuit.
Yes, I do.
I think the fact that it has been consciously designed by humans to press the fun switch is the fundamental difference.
It changes the way you approach the whole thing, completely different vibe.
I love natural stuff, but we've got a little mini-trail near us, try and fit it into every ride.
It's just a few minutes of concentrated, really well designed fun, but it's bloody ace, especially at the end of a muddy moorland slog.
Whinlatter, Marin and Penmachno are favourites.
Only had one Scottish jaunt, but Glentrool is much more fun than we expected and Kirroughtree is an awful lot harder.
They're tough up there.
It's all fun, innit?
I love a trail centre, if in a group and blasting it. Epic fun. Also a good place to push your limits a bit more in a fairly safe environment.
Natural trails however are ace for the nice views and variety and challenge of the terrain. But you do have to be aware of other trail users and/or the remoteness, and temper your riding to suit.
(NB: One of the worst bits about Scottish riding is the volume of kitty litter, water bars and armored paths, even less natural than many a trail centre. )
I do think many folk are making a false assumption that non-trail centre = some featureless moorland. Much of what I ride locally falls into the stuff you mention above.
I guess if you don't live near trail centres but still amongst hills these cheeky trails tend to get built and a local scene tends to happen. It's certainly plenty active down here!
I would love to spend more time riding places where you're on truly natural trails - I tend to go hunting for them on holiday, a recent highlight being a granite tor in Brittany with some steep rocky paths and a couple of years back what must have been an old goat track cutting through a wood which was once terraced farmland in the depths of Mallorca - continuous rock garden!
I do 95% of my riding around the Peak, as it's where I live. But when I've been to trail centers I've had lots of fun. So yes, I like them.
(NB: One of the worst bits about Scottish riding is the volume of kitty litter, water bars and armored paths, even less natural than many a trail centre. )
In most instances, if it wasn't for these things, there would be no path, just a big wide scar on the hill.
Mibbe go see big Cathro for a skills course? 😆
Natural trails all day long ... That puddle might be 12ft deep etc.
You haven't been to Penmachno yet, have you?
😉
it's certainly not an extreme sport for most folk riding at trail centres
It doesn't matter how bad people are at it. MTBing of a certain type is an 'extreme sport' i.e. it's in the same area of human endeavour as snowboarding, downhill skiing, kite surfing, all that stuff. Doing it badly doesn't change that. It's all about what you are tryign to do. If you are trying to go as fast as possible on something challenging, then it's an extreme sport; if you are out for a day in the hills it's like walking - an outdoor pursuit.
It changes the way you approach the whole thing, completely different vibe.
That's what I'm getting at.
I think a lot of the discussion on trail centre vs bridleways says more about the local terrain of the user rather than inherent characters of either.
Even near where I live in west Leeds, some of the bridleways are steep and fairly rocky, whilst others are tame and flat. Go to the Peak district and some of the most technical descents and climbs I've done were on bridleways.
Similarly, trail centres can cover a lot of different types of riding. The red route at Hamsterley is massively different Sherwood pines; it's far steeper, more technical and feels more natural.
[quote=molgrips ]
It doesn't matter how bad people are at it. MTBing of a certain type is an 'extreme sport' i.e. it's in the same area of human endeavour as snowboarding, downhill skiing, kite surfing, all that stuff. Doing it badly doesn't change that. It's all about what you are tryign to do. If you are trying to go as fast as possible on something challenging, then it's an extreme sport;First of all, it's not a sport for the majority. There is no competitive element whatsoever.it's certainly not an extreme sport for most folk riding at trail centres
And yet, as many have already said, you could be "trying to go as fast as possible" coming down a natural/non-trail centre descent. By your definition, this makes it an extreme sport. Or, for another example, what about events like the TDR and the HT550?if you are out for a day in the hills it's like walking - an outdoor pursuit.
It's nothing to do with the location.
in the same way that I like going to the gym or the climbing wall or peak season skiing in a modern resort - good enough, fun and enjoyable but I know what I'd rather do
antigee - MemberÂ
in the same way that I like going to the gym or the climbing wall or peak season skiing in a modern resort - good enough, fun and enjoyable but I know what I'd rather do
You lost me there. Are you comparing climbing to skiing ? A ski resort to a trail centre ? (aren't they conceptually the same thing ?).
I'd rather be stuck in the gym than at peak season in a ski resort !
It's nothing to do with the location.
No, but I think the choice of location can reflect the ethos you already have.
Yes.
So what ethos does someone who likes both natural rails AND trail centres have ?
What has ethos got to do with anything ?
This thread is bizarre, even by the standards of the few STW binary thinkers.
Natural trails all day long ... That puddle might be 12ft deep etc.You haven't been to Penmachno yet, have you? 😉
The puddles there aren't more than 3-4 inches deep, they just go on for a few miles 😆
The puddles there aren't more than 3-4 inches deep
*Most* of them.
Penmachno riders would have loved Auchindrain pre-windfarm, by the sounds of it.
Whitestone, I think I know what you mean. I love/d riding trail centres but haven't been to one in a while now. The flow and fun factor is high but there's something about being on a waymarked loop that is a turn-off, it's against a big part of what I ride for so maybe I don't make the effort to get there as much as I used to. They can be busy also but that's prob only that I tend to be there at weekends like most others.
Take that TC loop and add some other stuff, ie if I have the time and/or some trail knowledge to make it up as I go, and it's all good. Makes me think I should plan a 3 dayer around S Wales sometime.. we rode a bit of Nant Y Arian during the WRT this year and it reminded me that my TC skills are rusty : )
