Nobeerinthefridge - Membernext thing you'll be acknowledging the virtues of the xc course at Cathkin...
That's a race course, not a trail centre. Generally racing away from staffies/junkies/neds and middle aged faceplanters...
TBF you can actually ride a small loop of cathkin and make it interesting. I never go beyond the bottom of double dare. The new stuff that's getting put in for next years championship looks good.
It's yet another thing to do with your bike and that's a great thing. I only ever do then every few years but it's still fun
And how long before the stw Facebook team start pushing this thread every couple of weeks 🙂
They have their place, and I love a visit to CyB or Afan in particular.
They definitely don't seem as busy as they used to be though. Anyone else observed that?
Few seem to be answering the original questions 🙄
[i]So why should I like, or grow to like them? What do you like about them that keeps you going back?[/i]
So far it seems to boil down to some combination of "Lack of time", "lack of commitment to head out on the BW network" (I'll use that rather than "natural" 😉 ); convenience.
Oh, the off-piste stuff at TCs isn't what I'm talking about, it's the marked trails. In fact stuff like Grandfather, Father, Dentist at Grizedale is fine, far better than TNF. (I know TNF hasn't had much if any love over the years but insert the name of any TC trail and it's the same). Which suggests that it's the deliberately manufactured stuff that I have issue with.
That's been spoken of since the commie games, pie in the sky.
nope, it's real now. There was an info session on it hosted by the Council the other week. Funding is secured. However, Chateau au Lait for coffee and cake... 🙁
Yes,I love them. I grew up on bmx in the 80's and started mountain biking soon as I got too old to be hanging about on a bmx. Still did the same stuff, looking for things to ride down and jump off. So my first visit to Glentress was as you can imagine magical, like the world's biggest bmx track. I'm quite time limited theses days and at a trail centre I know what I'm getting and even though all of them are an hour plus traveling I reckon it's the best bang for buck time wise. I've lost a bit of bike mojo at present but I can see trail centres figuring even more in my future biking.
The flip side is that I detest hike a bike, I'd actually rather be walking than carrying a bike.
That's been spoken of since the commie games, pie in the sky. Castlemilk for a coffee and cake? F that!
The only thing they are short of is cash for doing the old church up - ~200k but the money for the track, the UCI start/finsh, pump and skills track is all there. They have done the environmental sweep of the area too. Should be starting to dig pretty soon and will be ready for march/april next year IIRC when I went to the information day.
There's no reason you should feel you have to like trail centres. You like what you like.
I like that they are pretty weather proof, have big flow trails with berms / yumps / jumps and often have at least a cafe - and sometimes shower facilities. Yet you still feel you're out in the wild (most often go to Cwmcarn or Bike Park Wales - but the same applies to Afan).
For the record my bike has never been on the roof of an Audi (referring to comment somewhere above).....
Few seem to be answering the original questionsSo why should I like, or grow to like them? What do you like about them that keeps you going back?
So far it seems to boil down to some combination of "Lack of time", "lack of commitment to head out on the BW network" (I'll use that rather than "natural" ); convenience.
Pretty much nailed it though haven't we?
That and "it's like riding a 20mile BMX track".
What's not to like? Unless you enjoy the faff/drudgery/mud* of the bridleway network and don't like jumps and berms.
*tongue in cheek, I do like a good day out.
Anyone over about 30 and been mountainbiking for >16 years will probably remember Foot and Mouth too. If it wasn't for trail centers keeping people riding it's entirely possible the sport would have just died on it's arse just as trail bikes started to get interesting and the sport moved away from 'trudging over hills and bridleways' into the more 'gnarr' incarnation we have today. The countryside was effectively shut through 2001.
got to be honest, I am fancying a trail center trip now after reading this thread.
a weekend in wales I reckon, cyb, penmachno and llandegla.
Packing the van as soon as I finish my cuppa.
Nant yr Arian followed by Climachx on my way to camping near Coed y Brenin.
Then Coed y Brenin or a natural the next day and either or on Sunday.
OP... Do you feel you want to like them? I love riding my bike, the woods and rolling hills of my native Kent provide me with hours of enjoyment, woodland singletrack being a favourite.
That said, I love my Alps trips and tackling 1000m descents with average gradients of 26%, another favourite.
TCs have always figured in my riding and a weekend away that involves brain out just ride the trail type stuff is excellent, especially when mixed with a little out there exploring too.
I know you love riding and with the Peaks as your playground, who needs TCs?
Gotta pack now.... plenty of wet gear this weekend I think!
I've never been to Glentress!
There, I've admitted it. I must surely be alone in this respect amongst mountainbikers.
I think it's fashionable to hate trial centres. They have their place, for sure. Yes, I prefer 'natural' trials, but I really love some sections of trial centres. I also think they are much more appealing to beginners. My girlfriend is really getting into it and she prefers riding at a trial centre. Clearer trials, waymarked, and less intimidating than throwing her into the woods 😀
Heading to Llandegla on Saturday with her for a spin around the red. The red there has a few nice sections 🙂
Nice to see an argument about mountain biking on here, instead of Trump, Europe, pies, moleskin trews, corbyn, carbonara, Jamba, ninfan, Jamba, ninfan, Jamba, ninfan.........
😀
it's a rare day when I'm not leaving the house with a deadline in mind and a half dozen other things to do that day - it's a gamble to head up to Brecon or even Caerphilly and wander into the woods hoping to find something to ride
P-Jay, seriously, drop me a line, I can sort you out with natural rides!
Few seem to be answering the original questionsSo why should I like, or grow to like them? What do you like about them that keeps you going back?
My answers to your questions are: you don't have to, it's up to you what you like and what you don't like, and lots of things for me to like them but YMMV.
If someone has ridden at a trail centre and decided they don't like it, no one should tell them they're being silly or missing something.
If someone declares they don't like a trail centre without ever riding at one then my response would be "how do you know if you've never tried it?" Give it a go, if after you've ridden at a trail centre you still don't get it or enjoying then fine, it's not for you.
chakaping - MemberThey definitely don't seem as busy as they used to be though. Anyone else observed that?
Comes and goes, here in South Wales Afan seems quiter than ever, but it's not really a 'centre' as such anymore - it's an area with 3 'centres' and a free carapark tucked away,
Cwmcarn is always brisk to busy, but obviously dies down in Winter.
For the most part though BPW is sucking up 90% of the road trip crowd.
Trail centres are great, they give people new to the sport a real challenge in an environment that is easy to navigate and are fairly predictable, to just dismiss the riding as easy is being disengenuous, some Black features can be quite testing, even the Blue loop at GT has a fairly tough climb for a beginner, a proper challenge.
It is just riding bikes, so don't look down your'e nose at others enjoying themselves.
I was recently at Chatel bike park, i thought i would hate it and had a real blast, would i do it again, to right i would.. my preconceptions were wrong. It's different but not inferior to natural riding, what is natural anyway, other than manmade.
By the way i'm faster than you, my kits brand new.
Comes and goes, here in South Wales Afan seems quiter than ever, but it's not really a 'centre' as such anymore - it's an area with 3 'centres' and a free carapark tucked away,
Needs an uplift. I recall the descents were excellent fun, but I'm not wasting 1/2 my day riding uphill.
Needs an uplift. I recall the descents were excellent fun, but I'm not wasting 1/2 my day riding uphill.
Not an opinion everyone would share but I take you're point.
If it was run as a business there would be one there right now - in fact there was 10 years ago, a Land Rover with a trailer that drove a little too quickly dropping people up Whites, the Wall and Skyline to tear down again. Sadly, the Council couldn't find the right box for him on their forms so he was legislated to death - I think he was technically a taxi in the end.
Anyway, yes, if it was a business they'd look at how BPW is doing and refocus the place - but as it stands it doesn't lend itself to it - trails are spread far and wide and they're long XC descents not like Bike Park.
You can uplift the major descents of The Wall if you want with little fuss, well as long as you've got a suitable vehicle and take it in turns to drive - few people do though.
I have drifted away from trail centres and back to the kind of riding that I enjoyed when I first got an 'MTB'. I prefer the remote over the hills and far away rides and my local woods and paths. I still visit Brechfa from time to time though and when I bother I enjoy it.
My loss of interest is due to getting my fat bike, the fact that I have ridden all the local trail centres so often, reluctance to drive to a centre after work and, I guess, getting older and less sociable.
Whether I like them or not is irrelevant though because loads of people do, it's great for 'our sport' takes pressure of natural trails, introduces people to getting fit outside, etc, etc... I know it's not the question being asked but I am glad we have them and would support the development of more trail centres all over the place.... Preferably with train links and even in urban areas.
"I have seen things you fatbikers wouldn't believe..Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.. C beams glittering in the dark.. near the Tanhauser gate..all memories lost in time, like tears in rain..."
Just your average trail center blast!
Love them.
Afan is my favourite!
When I was involved with NWMBA, we were lucky enough to be involved with the beginning of Llandegla. The place is special to me, have spent many a happy hour blasting around the trails.
As has been said, TC's have their place. I used the shop at Llandegla and was friends with Ian and Jim, so it was a place to go to see friends too.
Whinlatter is now my local TC and although it is a great place, I have probably been there twice in 12 months.
what is natural anyway, other than manmade.
Natural - possibly affected by humanity but not built for bikes to be ridden down
Man made - built for bikes to ride down by humans
Its not that hard a distinction to grasp
Granted there are grey areas due to trail pixies
I've rode some absolutely amazing trail centres
I've rode some absolutely crap trail centres
I've rode some absolutely amazing natural stuff
I've rode some absolutely crap natural stuff
As long as you're enjoying it and having fun it doesn't matter where you ride
If you go out your way not to ride trail centres you're basically just an edge lord
Got you, well it isn't natural is it, semantics... Bways are manmade, granted for horses, but not very natural.
We often talk about how great natural rides are in the Mountains...stone pitched with water bars yay.
My mission is to find the best natural rides they are rarer than you think...Like i said i'm faster than you my kit is brand new.
PS. Natural to me is a trail made by footfall or animal tracks, rare in a biking context,
Yeah, love them. Think im spoilt though, when i got back into mountain biking my mate took me to a local TC (glentress). I like the 'easy bang for yer buck' like others have said, you know what your getting, easy to build up your skills, easy to follow trails on a loop. That said im hardly ever on the waymarked trails anymore. People stop to see if you need a hand if your stopped for any reason. Also spoilt as theres lots of natural stuff here too, old drovers rds, walking paths, freedom to roam and i love doing this too (doing st Cuthbert's way in a couple of weeks).
OP - You dont say if you go out alone or with others. Maybe you like the solitude? Theres definitely a feeling of less pressure on me pootling away in a field compared to a TC where i know a 'feature' isnt to far away. Dont feel that you should have to grow to like them, as long as your happy on the saddle its all good i would say ( sorry, never meant to write this much)
I find the biggest problem with trail centres is they all start to look the same after a while. Hardpack, hardly any roots, full of berms. I still go occasionally but I do find them a bit boring.
Quick answer, yes.
What do you like about them that keeps you going back?
They offer an opportunity to ride terrain that isn't in abundance naturally (corners is a great example!), without the stuff that can spoil a natural ride (overgrown trails, floods, mud, tough climbs 😆 )
I love a good "traditional" ride, but a number of factors need to be just right to make it a great experience. Many of those factors I have no control of. Trail centres provide a buzz that might be nigh-on impossible to get on my local trails in the middle of a wet winter, for example.
Also, much of the buzz I get from a good XC ride I can get from a good road ride, yet trail centre riding is a very different experience. It's the difference between going for a drive in the country versus going on a track day.
@swoosh - well I've ridden at: Laggan; Ft William; All the seven Stanes; Kielder; Grizedale; Gisburn; Dalby; Betws (Marin); Coed y Brenin; Forest of Dean; Swinley. It's not enjoyment vs dislike, I don't find it satisfying.
@fergal - Junkyard has it. In the context of mountain biking it means "not designed for bikes".
@aide - a mixture, sometimes on my own sometimes with a group which might be from five to twenty.
A bit too late to edit the above.
In addition to the comment about company, I ride alone and with others on natural BWs as well as at trail centres. If it wasn't for company then I almost certainly wouldn't go to trail centres at all.
Perhaps a good way of explaining my feelings are that I can't remember ever thinking: "[i]That was great! I must come back here.[/i]" after riding at a trail centre.
I will admit that is the general meaning, not in my world! Natural singletrack is the benchmark.
nastybuller you mean a bit boring like natural riding...kittylitter, waterbar, stone paving...kittylitter, waterbar (bunny hop), hisss.. stone paving..
"I have seen things you fatbikers wouldn't believe..Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.. C beams glittering in the dark.. near the Tanhauser gate..all memories lost in time, like tears in rain..."Just your average trail center blast!
Yes, you can find mushrooms at trail centres too 🙂
I used to be a bit dismissive of trail centres, so out of curiosity I put together [url= https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=1o6&doc_id=18104&v=AB ]this project[/url] last year. I enjoyed the mix enough that I'll be doing something similar in Scotland at the end of next month. Joining up trail centres with natural riding, trains at each end - best of all worlds.
To answer the original question, they aren't for me.
I don't know why but I just like riding tracks that have been there since way before bikes were even thought of. I like the history of the tracks, they exist because they had a purpose many moons ago even if now only used for leisure. The deep cut V shape in a bank higher than my height from generations of travellers and rain eroding it away.
I find it hard to explain really,a track purpose made for bikes and designed with only that purpose in mind just doesn't do it for me.
All of the above said,I have zero issues with people that think the exact opposite.
It's all riding bikes at the end of the day.
I'm not really a fan, I find they don't really work well for tandems (too much grounding and tight corners, better riders might disagree!) and I prefer more open riding with views. However my wife enjoys them for all the reasons others have mentioned so sometimes I go for a run while she rides round which works out pretty well for both of us.
@Poopscoop
I've just started reading The Old Ways by Rob McFarlane on that very subject. I think you would enjoy it.
I just love getting out on my bike. I'm lucky having Peak District rides from the front door but I also like trail centres for a good whoosh round for a couple of hours. At least with a trail centre you can be confident of there not having to slow down for pedestrians every few minutes. It also depends what kind of riding you like, but I love a big day out on natural trails. I also love technical climbs and you don't get so many of those at trail centres. Other prefer to do big jumps with minimal uphill pedalling.
How can you "actively avoid" trail centres and fail to avoid starting a thread about them ?
Odd, even by STW's passive aggressive standards.
I've rode some absolutely amazing trail centresI've rode some absolutely crap trail centres
I've rode some absolutely amazing natural stuff
I've rode some absolutely crap natural stuff
As long as you're enjoying it and having fun it doesn't matter where you ride
If you go out your way not to ride trail centres you're basically just an edge lord
This for me. Riding my bike is fun.
How can you "actively avoid" trail centres and fail to avoid starting a thread about them ?
You are missing the point of the questions! It's about what others might see in trail centres that I don't.
I don't know why but I just like riding tracks that have been there since way before bikes were even thought of. I like the history of the tracks, they exist because they had a purpose many moons ago even if now only used for leisure. The deep cut V shape in a bank higher than my height from generations of travellers and rain eroding it away.I find it hard to explain really,a track purpose made for bikes and designed with only that purpose in mind just doesn't do it for me.
All of the above said,I have zero issues with people that think the exact opposite.
Yup.
...or getting caught in the rain...? 🙂
You are missing the point of the questions! It's about what others might see in trail centres that I don't.
I'm getting the hint that the point of the question is:
"Look at me, I don't ride trail centers"
...or getting caught in the rain...?
We need the OP's opinion on Pina-colada
