that Turner is pointlessly raging against something
at which point was the raging ?
He's probably more in touch with sentiment in the US as he a a bike designer that famously interacts with his customers closely via web forums, and has just as current range of mountain bikes (except e) as anyone else, certainly any other 'boutique' brand, and still rides and races a lot.
The only issue i have with ebikes is the simple fact that they sit in a "grey" area of the law. Not really being pedal bikes or being motorbikes. Yes i know, there are rules around power output etc, but really, i'm going to suggest that any bike with a motor, IS, in the eyes of the general public, a motorbike. Why does this matter? Well, in the UK, our access laws are frankly old and inadequate to reflect the way we now use our countryside. So whilst i have no problem at all with people riding ebikes at trail centres, i think there is a careful balancing act required on public rights of way.
The day some rich, entitled Rambler friendly Land Owner gets hit by an ebike (irrespective of why or how) is the day we(us mountain bikers) could loose even more access to our countryside......
(BTW, my riding group, has over the last 2 years now fractured into two separate groups, those with ebikes and those without, as practically, no one finds it fun to ride with anyone on an ebike unless they are similarly mounted)
I do wonder about the pain merchants. When you go for a 20/40/60 miles cycle, do you not feel like your are cheating when you could have ran that?
I guess I am a bit of a pain merchant as I ride a rigid fixed gear with no brakes and ride off road for 20 - 30 miles at a time as fast as I can. I ride it because that is the type of bike that I enjoy.
However, if the type of bike I liked was an e-bike I would have one of those.
You haterz are all luddites.
What's the point bothering to acquire fitness, riding skills, route planning techniques and navigation ability when you can simply follow waymarkers or downloaded GPX files on an assisted bike, riding round in circles with all the other flabby over-entitled middle aged men squealing in their orgy of instant gratification?
It's a perfect metaphor for our time.
He’s probably more in touch with sentiment in the US as he a a bike designer that famously interacts with his customers closely via web forums, and has just as current range of mountain bikes (except e) as anyone else, certainly any other ’boutique’ brand, and still rides and races a lot.
I'm in Bend, OR currently. There are lots of ebike shops. The invasion of the middle classes and second home types from California (according to locals) brings out the want to look fit generation. People driving pick-ups with bikes on the back and no intention of using them.
Dave is pretty softly spoken about this and was asked a contentious question from a 'reporter' - what did you expect him to say? He hasn't come down the on the side of e-bikes. So what.
He's just observing a change that he personally doesn't like. I'm with him.
But you can still ride your battery bike if you want.
However I don't know of a bike manufacturer that has given me any more impoteus to ride than Turner.
The reporter siezed on a cheap opportunity as there are previous articles about DT's disdain towards such bikes.
.
The only issue i have with ebikes is the simple fact that they sit in a “grey” area of the law.
Let stop you there, there is no grey area, their pedelecs. You might not like that, but that doesn't make it untrue or a grey area in any way..
Let me help you with this wiki article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedelec
maxtorque
"The only issue i have with ebikes is the simple fact that they sit in a “grey” area of the law. Not really being pedal bikes or being motorbikes. Yes i know, there are rules around power output etc, but really, i’m going to suggest that any bike with a motor, IS, in the eyes of the general public, a motorbike. Why does this matter? Well, in the UK, our access laws are frankly old and inadequate to reflect the way we now use our countryside. So whilst i have no problem at all with people riding ebikes at trail centres, i think there is a careful balancing act required on public rights of way.
The day some rich, entitled Rambler friendly Land Owner gets hit by an ebike (irrespective of why or how) is the day we(us mountain bikers) could loose even more access to our countryside……"
Wow! This is quite possibly one of the most ignorant comments I've ever read on here. No wonder your mates are buying Ebikes to get away from you.
When did folk start calling bicycles "clockwork"?
Doing so makes you sound like TJ when he talks about riding his 'solo' bikes.
Because he’s produced some of the most pioneering mountain bikes of the previous 20 years.
Great. I’m sure they are awesome bikes, I’ve never owned one, or looked into owning one (I’d never heard of Turner bikes until I came on this forum actually, and even then I didn’t know if it was just a generic name or an actual person)
But I have been riding various types of bikes off-road since the late 70’s from BMX initially, then mountain bike in the late 80’s until now. So I’m hardly inexperienced, but I’ve never heard of David Turner.
Still not sure why that’s “hilarious”
Seriously, never heard of a 5 spot or a Sultan, or even a Burner?
Honestly.... the 5 spot rings a familiar bell, but in isolation I wouldn’t have known who made it. The other two, no.
(Other than “burner” as in Raleigh, but I guess that’s not what you mean)
Basically, my my point is, his opinion may be important to some people. But to me, he’s just some guy making up things to bolster an argument against something he doesn’t like.
Even if he is/was somehow “important” his argument is so weak, that his status wouldn’t strengthen it at all
It's hardly news that humans have a liking of labour saving/assisting items. I don't personally give a stuff if someone wants to use one simply to make it easier, so what, it's up to them. I have no doubt ebikes will have some impact on the sales of normal bikes, but I don't think everyone will stop buying normal bikes. All market's change as products evolve.
From what I see around my bit of the Peak, I think ebikes are taking off across many different genre’s of cyclist’s. I’m seeing more pricey full sus affairs and equally more recreational rider’s on them, and there is a lad on some giant e-road bike I see when our shifts correspond on the ride to work. Seems all good to me, I never noticed the same speed of uptake with different wheel sizes or say fat bikes, because I guess ebikes appeal to a far wider market than people who see themselves as 'proper' cyclist's. The folk I see on them certainly look happier than the ones I see strapping loads of luggage to road bikes and taking them off road.
“
I do wonder about the pain merchants. When you go for a 20/40/60 miles cycle, do you not feel like your are cheating when you could have ran that? There’s always more pain you can inflict on yourselves.
Ultra runners everywhere must be looking down their noses at you! 😆”
In answer to your question.
Yes, and I love running more than I’ve ever loved bikes and get far more reward from a 30/40 mile day in the Highlands than I’ve ever got from a bike in any scenario.
At least there’s no (I think) e trainers, although graphene or whatever seems to be kicking up a fuss.
Geek, i understand you don't like me, but would you care to explain why my comments are "ignorant"?
We already have "bad press" from people riding purely pedal powered mountain bikes coming into direct conflict with walkers and riders on all forms of our off road public access network. Today, off road motorcyclists have born the brunt of the bad press, however, as soon as you "assist" a pedal bike with a motor, then it's moved from a purely human powered device (and hence arguably closer to walking) to a "motor" bike, arguably closer to being driven/ridden.
We can argue till we are blue in the face that the legals situation defines pedal assist bikes of limited power to still be "pedal cycles" but i'm going to suggest that people with a point to make won't bother explaining those subtleties when an incident between say a rambler and a eBiker occurs.......
Anyhow, just back a wee run to up and over the whangie path, up the rocky stuff to the trig point, back down the grassy bit at the back. Aye... it's still tough, ebike or not! 😆 much easier mind, but still tough, particular on the techy sections!
It's all getting out, which is the point, lovely day. 🙂
Mon the ebikes!
[img] 
[/img]
when an incident between say a rambler and a eBiker occurs…….
I've never ran into a walker in my puff, not about to start now!
I don't dislike you in the slightest Max... I don't know you. It just so happens you spout an awful lot of stuff that's complete rubbish and I have occasionally pulled you up over it. It's not personal.
ignorance
(noun)
lack of knowledge or information.
Please start your path to knowledge by looking at a map of the UK. Then when you've worked out what's north of Carlisle/Berwick upon Tweed. Have another look at the outdoor access laws for that (rather large) area.
I'm not going to argue with any of the rest of what you just typed as it's a completely farcical fantasist over reaction and again massively lacking knowledge of the subject matter.
The average Emtb rider is not as quick as an elite XC athlete on a normal XC mtb on the flat or uphill and despite the assistance still won't have the ability to cover the same range. Downhill an emtb is right around the same speed as a similar mtb and the assist cuts out at 15mph. With this taken into consideration how is the assist going to cause a rambler any more harm than a fit rider not paying attetion or riding like a dick?
Your *argument* makes no sense.
Still not sure why that’s “hilarious”
To me it was. Humour is a personal thing.
the assist cuts out at 15mph.
There's an app for that.
To me it was. Humour is a personal thing.
Yep. Guess it must be.
I would assume there are lots of people I am familiar with that you haven’t heard of. Not exactly side splitting comedy though.
Each to their own. 👍
The only issue i have with ebikes is the simple fact that they sit in a “grey” area of the law.
No they aren’t.
Not really being pedal bikes or being motorbikes. [/quote{They are pedal bikes. Not motorbikes. As the law clearly states.
[quote{Yes i know, there are rules around power output etc, but really, i’m going to suggest that any bike with a motor, IS, in the eyes of the general public, a motorbike.
Loads of people are wrong about things every day. I don’t really care if people are wrong about this. Is doesn’t matter in the slightest.
Why does this matter?
It doesn’t. But please, do go on...
Well, in the UK, our access laws are frankly old and inadequate to reflect the way we now use our countryside. So whilst i have no problem at all with people riding ebikes at trail centres, i think there is a careful balancing act required on public rights of way.The day some rich, entitled Rambler friendly Land Owner gets hit by an ebike (irrespective of why or how) is the day we(us mountain bikers) could loose even more access to our countryside……
This has presumably happened loads of times on std bikes already in the 30+ Years mountainbikes have been popular in the UK ?
Which are the areas have we been banned from when normal bikes have crashed into rich rambler friendly landowners? Not something I’ve read about but presume it must have happened a fair few times by the way you are talking.
Geex, did you read anything i wrote?
What i am is a realist. And the simple fact remains, that for most of the uk, access to our ever more crowded countryside is becoming more and more contentious as more people (higher population, with more free time and expendable income) want to access and enjoy the countryside for their particular favourite activity. This "conflict" is real, and very apparent, especially in certain hot spots (the Peak District being one such place)
It's quite clear, that already, powerful lobbying exists against mountain bikers, similar to that which has pretty much made off road driving (and probably soon off road motorcycling) socially unacceptable. Anything we do to add "mechanisation" to our bikes could to count against us, irrespective of the law, and that could lead to a reduction in our access rights. Note i said "could" not "will" as we simply don't know what effect it will have, as it's a complex situation.
Our media, and especially our over reactive, knee jerk, and sensationalist social media channels, love a good "horror story". Imagine someones kid getting hit by an eBike riding (perfectly legally and at a sensible speed) down a Bridleway, i'm pretty sure the headline "kid run down by motorbike" would be splashed willy nilly across all forms of the media, irrespective of who's fault it was, why it happened, or in fact any thing to do with the fact it was an eBike.
So, all i am pointing out is that bolting a motor to a bike, makes, in the eye of the populous a "motorbike" and that is potentially, a dangerous step, when we are already fighting to get our fair share of countryside access.
Now, i think that ^^ is not just a fair point, but a considered one. You can call me ignorant and under informed all you like if it makes you feel better, but i hope most readers of this thread can see my point, and consider the point i am making for themselves.
BTW:
I'm not anti eBike (in fact, i own one)
I'm not anti eBiker (loads of people i ride with have one, people who get load more fun out of riding their eBike all over the country, at trail centres, in the countryside, even along canal towpaths......)
BTW, i also disagree an Ebike is no quicker than the average MTBer? Sorry, but that's simple not the case.
Sure, a world cup level athlete can put out 400w for an hour, but the typical MTBer, er no, far from it. I'm reasonably fit, have done the odd triathlon and XC race, and an ebike DOUBLES my average output over an hour (at the least, most days, it can triple it.... 😉
So, sure, it might not be any faster ultimately downhill, but ime, an eBike allows you to cover between 50 and 100% more distance in any given time than the average ride on a purely human powered bike.
ADD:
Luckily, actual accidents between mountain bikes and other users are rare. The problem comes with the fact that human perspective skews real events into far worse sounding scenarios.
A "near miss" where say some bikers come round a corner and brake to avoid some ramblers, something that is a non event to the bikers, can easily become "a group of out of control bikers travelling so fast they nearly ran us down" to the ramblers. That's the way of the world. Our access laws are imo, out of date, and as we seek to gain greater access in most of the uk (ie being able to legally ride our bikes on footpaths) we don't need any negative press, irrespective of how biased it maybe.
It'll only take the walking contingent (who are generally far better connected politically that us bikers) to argue that now "everyone" is on motorbikes (bikes with motors) then no way should they be allowed on footpaths" and bang, there goes that access improvement. And it only takes one muppet to ruin it for everyone. Most MTBers i've ever met are sensible and courteous, but just like a few "bad" off road motorcyclists effectively shutting down access for all off roaders in our more conflicted areas of countryside, then same could (could, not will!!) happen with eBikes.
So, sure, it might not be any faster ultimately downhill, but ime, an eBike allows you to cover between 50 and 100% more distance in any given time than the average ride on a purely human powered bike.
Cool. They sound great.
No wonder they are getting more popular.
Off course, as you quite rightly said, climbing will the the majority of the difference in distance covered. So hardly an issue in terms of safety right ?
Any incident that causes injury to a Walker is most likely going to happen when descending, at speeds well above the 15mph ebike assistance limit.
So really this whole “safety” thing is a load of balls isn’t it ?
You need to stop following the access laws. They aren't working. Ebikes don't add to the woes of the perverse access laws south of the border. You're getting pigeon holed and restricted, regardless. You aren't going to fix them in the town halls or wherever.
Wee hint, access laws are impossible to police to any noticeable extent.
A “near miss” where say some bikers come round a corner and brake to avoid some ramblers, something that is a non event to the bikers, can easily become “a group of out of control bikers travelling so fast they nearly ran us down” to the ramblers. That’s the way of the world. Our access laws are imo, out of date, and as we seek to gain greater access in most of the uk (ie being able to legally ride our bikes on footpaths) we don’t need any negative press, irrespective of how biased it maybe.
And this has happened pretty much every day, somewhere, for the last 30+ years on various types of bikes. Not had much effect has it ?
And it only takes one muppet to ruin it for everyone.
A false premise.
It’s not happened yet on std bikes, in spite of many many many years of a small percentage of people constantly riding like dicks.
I totally agree. It's quite logical to surmise that a speed restricted*** eBike is no more dangerous than a normal bike. Sure they are a bit heavier, but as riders can be, er, a bit more heavy too, that's no issue.
The problem is that "logic" isn't the primary way peoples brains work. To the average person, who isn't a biker, then a bike with a motor is clearly faster and more dangerous (and damaging to the environment) than just a normal bike. The problem is that if an incident occurs (and the law of averages tells us it will occur eventually) then we will be misjudged.
It's the same as having a car with a loud exhaust, drive at 30mph in a 30 mph zone and people automatically think you are speeding (compared to a silent car, which is probably more dangerous as it can't be heard coming!) Or riding a motorbike along a byway. People automatically think "look at that bunch of motorbikes destroying the peace and quite of the countryside" etc etc. I wish it wasn't so, but that's the way a lot of people think unfortunately.
Take an incident that i had. Riding down a long wide bit of trackway in Dartmoor, group of walkers up ahead. I was travelling reasonably quickly, but not ridiculously so, saw them in plenty of time, and braked nice and early, and was down to less than walking pace well in front of them, they stood aside, and as i trundled passed, on chap said "crazy maniac, you nearly ran us down there". Well i stopped, and we had a discussion. His point was, that from his perspective, i hadn't slowed down, i could have hit him. I pointed out that that would also be the case for any two users of a path heading in opposing directions at ANY speed. And actually i did stop, and i didn't hit them, nor would i have been likely to do so, and even if i had, the end result would have been relatively minor. I even ended up demonstrating just how well a modern MTB stops, which surprised all of the group, who from their position (no knowledge of MTBs and discbrakes / moderns tyres / brakes etc) all though bikes had the terrible brakes they used to have back when they rode them. We parted on good terms, they hopefully with a little more knowledge on bikes and bikers, an i with a new understanding on how us bikers can be seen by other parties.
IMO, eBikes are a genuine potential threat to our access rights, and probably a bigger threat than anything else currently. I hope that that doesn't ever materialise, but i'm a realist enough to understand that having a motor on your bike (irrespective of what legally that even means) could paint a bigger target on ALL of our backs.
What you suggesting then, people stop riding ebikes?
Read the comments on this article:
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/northyorkshire/content/articles/2008/05/01/_steve_electricbikes_profile.shtml ]BBC_NYorks_ebikes[/url]
Already people pigeon holing eBikes as being "destroyers" of the countryside.
And as you may have noticed, despite 70% of respondents supporting a greater freedom for access in Wales, the law has remained unchanged.
[url= https://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/will-there-be-open-access-for-wales-no-seems-to-be-the-official-answer/ ]no-open-access-for-wales[/url]
It's doubtful that any single cause was behind that "NO" decision, but all the smaller effects must add up. Things like the Snowdon Ban being put in jeopardy by people flaunting the ban (and coming into conflict with walkers... familiar story eh) and stories about landowners finding illegal "jump runs" on their land in the Surrey hills etc all that cannot have helped.
are you wanting to ban ebikes outside of trail centres?
ps I've no interesting interweb comment sections, the hold very little link to reality.
And as you may have noticed, despite 70% of respondents supporting a greater freedom for access in Wales, the law has remained unchanged.
I did notice, going on that survey is a bit iffy tbh, it's a small sample set probably weighted in favour of mtbing, it's not a nation wide referendum! Regardless. It just proves my point, there's no point in following the access laws south of the border, they are nonsensical, and will remain so.
No, people can ride ebikes (i do) but they need to understand the possible consequence of them (us) having our "extra fun". Which is where i first came in on this thread.
I use my eBike for self uplift at trail centres mostly, turning a day at say Afan from a massive pedally slog to a genuine "laugh a minute" rip around (two laps in the same time as one lap usually). But i understand the need to ride carefully, considerately, and to be very very open to how we are perceived by other legitimate users of our shared wild spaces!
Unfortunately, imo, there is no magic bullet, no simple fix. eBikes are here to stay, it's up to use to manage the way we use the, and the way others perceive them.
So basically, you're just being a health and safety officer here then? making sure people know of that that we all already know? That horsing about at speed requires a modicum of responsibility? 😆
Man who doesn’t sell ebikes (missed the boat?) doesn’t think ebikes are awesome shocker.
If thinking of me as a Health n Safety officer floats ya boat, then go right ahead! Just make sure you wear the correct protective eyewear........ 😉
More seriously, the point i was making was just that eBikes are not "penalty free" with regard their mass adoption, and as a community, we should be aware of their downsides (as well as their upsides).
(we could have a separate discussion around how many eBikes actually remain with their speed limiter in place btw. A quick survey of my riding group shows 3 out of 5 are now "de-restricted" btw)
They're only not penalty free south of the border because of the silly access laws and culture if this is my ball you're not allow a game.
There's only ever one response to that attitude and it's just to go ahead play your own game.
The penalties are largely imaginary, as I said, it's impossible to police access laws to any great extent.
Take an incident that i had. Riding down a long wide bit of trackway in Dartmoor, group of walkers up ahead. I was travelling reasonably quickly, but not ridiculously so, saw them in plenty of time, and braked nice and early, and was down to less than walking pace well in front of them, they stood aside, and as i trundled passed, on chap said “crazy maniac, you nearly ran us down there”. Well i stopped, and we had a discussion. His point was, that from his perspective, i hadn’t slowed down, i could have hit him. I pointed out that that would also be the case for any two users of a path heading in opposing directions at ANY speed. And actually i did stop, and i didn’t hit them, nor would i have been likely to do so, and even if i had, the end result would have been relatively minor. I even ended up demonstrating just how well a modern MTB stops, which surprised all of the group, who from their position (no knowledge of MTBs and discbrakes / moderns tyres / brakes etc) all though bikes had the terrible brakes they used to have back when they rode them. We parted on good terms, they hopefully with a little more knowledge on bikes and bikers, an i with a new understanding on how us bikers can be seen by other parties.
Cool story, but totally irrelevant to your argument that ebikes are bad
IMO, eBikes are a genuine potential threat to our access rights
Your are doing a spectacularly bad job of justifying that opinion.
And as you may have noticed, despite 70% of respondents supporting a greater freedom for access in Wales, the law has remained unchanged.
So from this I can conclude that public opinion, even when in a majority, has minimal/no effect on changing access rights ?
Doesnt that [i]kind of [/i]ruin your argument that minority public opinion (that are actually wrong and misinformed) will somehow magically remove our access rights ?
He’s built the biggestest, most successful bike brand ever.
So he clearly knows his stuff yes...?
and as a community, we should be aware of their downsides
Arte those downsides just your opinion accompanied by your made up stories?
Point of order
Ebikes in the US are very different having 1000W and there are (almost) no access rights
Point of order two
Mountain bikers are not a community and it's a pastime not a sport unless you are racing
Mountain bikers are not a community
I have to agree, not anymore which is a shame. We used to be once upon a time but now it's just people doing their own thing. Personally I think the worlds a little bit worse for it 🙁
I have to agree, not anymore which is a shame. We used to be once upon a time but now it’s just people doing their own thing. Personally I think the worlds a little bit worse for it
Never been any different to how it is now in my experience.
When are you referring to ?
Never been any different to how it is now in my experience.
You've never though as a cyclist you belonged to a community ? I always felt I did. I do still to a certain excetent, certainly road riding with the whole club thing. Perhaps with so many new people coming into cycling it was bound to happen.
A tiny symptom is the waving to fellow riders thing. Not that many years ago it was unusual for it not to happen. Now its the exception not the rule. I sometimes think I'm the only one who still does.
You’ve never though as a cyclist you belonged to a community ?
No more so or less so than I do now.
Its always been pretty much the same. Some mates I go riding with, some strangers I see when I’m out riding. Not much has changed in my experience.
As regards to "community" I have more in common with hillwalkers than with uplift riders in full face hats and body armour.
My community is those who love exploring the countryside on bike,on foot or by horse
I have been riding bikes on and off road for almost 50years. There never was one cycling community. It's always been fragmented.
Been riding near St Anton in Austria today. Taking families with young kids out of the equation I reckon 75% of riders we saw were on ebikes.
http://road.cc/content/news/244732-study-cycling-daily-reduces-obesity-unless-its-e-bike
Fine by me either way. It's a choice.
you're going to have to go into a bit more detail about the actual study to prove that point, rather than that piss poor excuse for an article! 😆
Fine by me either way too mind, but i'd like to see the detail in the study. (sound like it's just related to commuting tbh reading the actual intro to the study.) you need to pay for the pdf.
Not really getting into the generic ebike debate but just to add I spoke to David Turner three times when buying my Sultan. He gave me excellent advice and Im still riding that bike 4 years later.
Edit: lols at the autocorrect for I N R A T S
Non-recreational transport mode usage was quantified using the question “How often do you currently use each of the following methods of travel to get to and from places?”, rated on a five-point scale ranging from “Daily or almost daily” to “Never” (Table S2). Modes considered were walking, cycling, e-biking (electrically assisted cycling), motorcycle or moped, public transport, and car or van. Subsequently, frequencies were assigned to each of the categories, transforming this into a days-per-month variable (“Daily or almost daily” = 24 days per month; “on 1-3 days per week” = 8 days per month; “on 1-3 days per month” = 2 days per month; “Less than once per month” = 1 day per month; “Never” = 0 days per month). For the longitudinal assessment, absolute changes in frequency between t<sub>0</sub> and t<sub>1</sub> were calculated. Secondly, a categorical variable looking at cycling frequency was considered: participants were categorized as frequent cyclist (at least once per week), occasional cyclist (less than once per week), or non-cyclist. Changes between groups were considered in the longitudinal study.
......
We mainly focussed on the extreme mode switch from car to bike, but also for some other modes near-significant effects were found. Although the sample of e-bikers was small, riding an e-bike was associated with higher BMI. This finding could complement a previous study that found that older adults with a higher BMI were more likely to be an e-bike-user (Van Cauwenberg et al., in press). This would indicate the presence of self-selection. In the longitudinal analysis, we hypothesize that more frequent use of an e-bike leads to a higher BMI through less regular biking. However, it is unlikely that all of the weight gain was the result of reduced physical activity, as e-biking still requires moderate to vigorous levels of physical activity (Berntsen et al., 2017; Langford et al., 2017)
oh, and
Due to the less frequent use of motorcycle and e-bike compared to other modes, confidence intervals were wider and mostly not statistically significant.
road.cc seems to be making a bit of an arse of themselves these days, that guy that drove into the pedestrain, now this blatantly click baity headline with no grounding in fact? 😆 Those guys are having a 'mare!
you’re going to have to go into a bit more detail about the actual study to prove that point, rather than that piss poor excuse for an article
You need to go into detail that you will likely be thinner riding a non-power assisted cycle?
They are just electric motor bikes.
You need to go into detail that you will likely be thinner riding a non-power assisted cycle
I suggest diet combined with moderate exercise (in whatever form) is the best way to go about that.
I'd like to see the evidence you have about "Cycling daily reduces obesity - unless it's an e-bike" ?
They are just electric motor bikes.
Absolutely!
My enduro bike is around 55hp, a 250w E-bike is around 0.3hp
So identical.
Absolutely!
My enduro bike is around 55hp, a 250w E-bike is around 0.3hp
So identical.
It's relative.
No one said identical.
I’d like to see the evidence you have about “Cycling daily reduces obesity – unless it’s an e-bike” ?
Assuming the same diet you would be working less.
Burning less calories.
I would definitely be fatter.
Just admit they're lazy fun and we can all go home.
Why pretend they're anything else?
Ride what you want.
However It's so sad that the only average riders that hold a chance at the top few KOMs in my area are e-bikes riders.
That tells you everything you need to know.
However It’s so sad that the only average riders that hold a chance at the top few KOMs in my area are e-bikes riders.
That tells you everything you need to know.
It tells me nothing. I've no idea what you mean.
Ahh, now we get to the source of the problem, we've got a stava warrior here concerned he's going to get knocked off.
Don't worry, I don't use strava you are safe! 😆 Couldn't give a hoot about KOMs.
Are you going to back up the claims in the article headline you posted? Or are you happy to trade on nonsense?
Assuming the same diet you would be working less.
Burning less calories.
I would definitely be fatter.
Surely calorie burn is dependent on effort? Why would you put in less effort on an ebike? Why not just stay on the ebike till you've burned the same calories?
A tiny symptom is the waving to fellow riders thing. Not that many years ago it was unusual for it not to happen. Now its the exception not the rule. I sometimes think I’m the only one who still does.
Have you ever considered any alternative form of greeting, perhaps a smile or a polite/friendly spoken phrase?
Not every human being who rides a bicycle expects the little wave you think they need to acknowledge.
However It’s so sad that the only average riders that hold a chance at the top few KOMs in my area are e-bikes riders.
That tells you everything you need to know.
It tells me that the non bike riders are slow. No (legal) bike rider is going to be taking any of my KOMs.
However It’s so sad that the only average riders that hold a chance at the top few KOMs in my area are e-bikes riders.
Now [b]that’s[/b] Hilarious.
#stravaqueen 🙄
just admit, strava is just “lazy racing” for people that don’t want to race for real, and we can all go home.
I would like some kind of commuting ebike to enable me to extend my range.
I live in Reading (ish) I used to have a job in didcot but know have a job in London ~36miles.
I've done the commute once but would like to do it more regularly.
To be honest all the ebike are pretty useless as they only help up to 15 miles an hour.
I pretty much spend the whole commute above 15 miles an hour as it is flat.
Ebikes need to be able to help up to ~20 miles an hour maybe a bit more say ~25mph.
nealglover beat me to it. Turner starts with a false premise and develops an argument for it. it’s just a “thin end of the wedge” fallacy.
+1
All this vitriol should be directed into opening up more land, more stuff, more rights of access not getting upset the guy next to you didn’t earn his turns.
It never seems to occur to Americans that their land (mis-)managment system is the root of the problems with access.
One one side they have the land management and on the other side they have everyone else.. be they e-MTBers, non E... people with RV's, hikers or whatever they have successfully created a divide and conquer so a few people control most of the land.
They have created a successful division of everyone who wants to use land for recreation fighting each other.
It reminds me of the gun lobby in many ways...
I think he totally misses the point when he says that it'd be strange for people to buy a pedal bike when you could get a motorised one for the same money. I've been able to buy faster machines for a long time, but still love my push bikes!
One thing people have pointed out on this thread is that the ebike could be the uber money top end. If I can get my next carbon-rich enduro sled for about £2k cos the big halo model is a £10k+ ebike in 5 years or so, I'll be fine with that! For me the power coming from my legs and my legs only is part of it - I feel a bit of a cheat not running a dynamo for lighting (but it's not really practical for helmet lights...). And yes I've done uplift days, and no I don't see an irony with that, as there's still not a motor on my bike.
And re. that road.cc article, I'd far rather see a marginally less fat population all riding to work on ebikes than sat in their cars getting nowhere and clogging up the roads. I also don't care if others want to ride ebikes, they can do that. It's just not for me (not for fun anyway).
I think they are a necessary invention. I can’t do any more arguing about wheel sizes. So a market variation to motorised seems like a lovely place to defend my lifestyle / brand choices.
I like them - I bought a long travel one last year
Ive also just bought a new non ebike
Sometimes I ride one, sometimes the other
I have nothing more to add!
Motors are great for commuting and trips around town, but for recreation I'll stick with cycling.
Also, necessity is not the mother of invention, laziness is.
Zappa is the original and best mother of invention
eBIke discussions invariably become a facsimile of the 1890s discussions of the deleterious effects of the freewheel on fitness and how it would encourage 'coasting' and laziness..
For a commuter an eBike is a practical way to arrive at the office not stinking with sweat.
For the non-cyclist it seems the sensible way to have the fun of cycling without the work. I predict we'll see them outnumber ordinary bikes on our streets within a few years.
There's lots of sensible reasons to get an eBike, but for people who are committed cyclists, forget those.
Let's not be sensible.*
There's a far better reason. They are bloody good fun. Ride one before you form an opinion.
And just like people who ride fixed wheels have not been obliterated by the scourge of the the freewheel, we'll still be running our dinosaur unassisted bikes when the streets are swarming with the z-i-i-i-p of the eBikes. And maybe all the cool kids will want to be like us... 🙂
.
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*Warning: advice on sensibility from a singlespeeder? May contain nuts... 🙂
I test rode a few e-bikes with my mum, when she wanted to buy one (she loves hers and at 78, it's got her out cycling regularly, which is great). Once you get past the novelty factor of power assisted legs, I don't really understand why an electric bike would be more fun to ride than a non electric bike?
Ebikes need to be able to help up to ~20 miles an hour maybe a bit more say ~25mph
I think this is where it will get interesting, because I bet there will be consumer pressure to change the law and move in this direction as they become more popular and ubiquitous. I believe the Dutch are already looking at the possibility of building high speed lanes for 45kph e-bikes.
If everyone levels up to 25mph we're in a significantly different situation, on or off road.
Same opposing viewpoints, different times...
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Same opposing viewpoints, different times…
And the result of that history is that 69% of car journeys are under 5 miles in length, and cycling is no longer a mainstream form of transport in the UK.
And the result of that history is that 69% of car journeys are under 5 miles in length
That really is incredible.
I cant remember the last time I did ANY car journey less than 5 miles 😳
If everyone levels up to 25mph
in commuting terms the levelling up idea is interesting, particularly if you level down cars to 25mph(not on all roads obv), then all of a sudden cycling and cars start to play on something aproachong a level playing field. Negating the need for separate bike lanes?
But if there's a concerted effort to curtail cars speeds and up cycling speeds. say 30 becomes 25, 40 becomes 30, 60 becomes 40. or something like that, then al of a sudden. cycling become much more attractive and less scary to the general populous (I'm not included in that tbh, I enjoy playing with the traffic! 😆 ), particularly if commuting speeds are sitting about 25mph on the cycle.
epicyclo
Same opposing viewpoints, different times…
Having your saddle on backwards will never catch on
They're very popular over here in the states.
Seems like every other one, certainly in Bend.
The average Emtb rider is not as quick as an elite XC athlete on a normal XC mtb on the flat or uphill and despite the assistance still won’t have the ability to cover the same range. Downhill an emtb is right around the same speed as a similar mtb and the assist cuts out at 15mph. With this taken into consideration how is the assist going to cause a rambler any more harm than a fit rider not paying attetion or riding like a dick?
Your *argument* makes no sense.
Because the last time I saw one, at Greno two weeks ago, some fat bastard was powering up a hill at what was at least 15mph looking like he was just spinning. No one sticks to the legally defined power outputs and they are impossible to police.
Give me a break, Max's comments are more considered than yours.