[Closed] Cotic Rocket 275

I'm afraid they've taken so long that the Bird fs thing has replaced the Rocket in the hearts of STW. Cy has also been replaced by the chaps at Bird (So refreshing to be able to talk to the designer etc).

Apparently the rocket frame alone will cost £1500.

I gave up listening to estimated delivery dates on the 26" model after 11 months.

Best of luck to them though.

Best of luck to Cotic with it, but I fear there may be no way back. Very happy BFe owner here but I'd buy another Transition if I wanted to change the FS

I'm sure these will be great - and once they're in actually in stock the perfect storm which killed the 26 will be forgotten.

Wasn't there a 29er Rocket? I was saving up for that

So is 26" dead or not then??

the 29er was prototype only for team racers afaik

ads678 - Member
So is 26" dead or not then??

Dead and buried.

the perfect storm which killed the 26 will be forgotten.

Self induced storm and TBH I'm not so sure it will be forgotten that easily.

Self induced storm and TBH I'm not so sure it will be forgotten that easily.

Well aren't you a sunny delight? 😛

Ever tried running your own manufacturing business - it's just SO easy...

6079smithw - Member
Wasn't there a 29er Rocket? I was saving up for that

one day, probably, maybe...

I'm not saying it is easy, but the reality is they are where they are now due to poor decisions and not seeing the way the market was moving.

Too late for me now but I hope...
a) it's great
b) people buy it
c) buyers enjoy it

I'll be happy when my replacement BFe frame eventually turns up.

Hoping it'll be some time next month, when the container arrives.

Ever tried running your own manufacturing business - it's just SO easy...

The mistake was not keeping a supply from the Far East while they tried to set up over here. Regardless of whether the 'new' Rocket is great it'll still have the wiff of a bike years out of date and those that wanted one before will have moved on. Good luck and all that but I fear that ship has sailed.

You're exactly right, that was the biggest mistake I made, amongst others. Plenty of mistakes were made over 2013/14, and we pissed a lot of people off.

All I can do is learn from that (hence not giving exact dates or opening orders until we have firm delivery details) and get some great frames made and try and persuade people to buy them.

wiff of a bike years out of date

I assume this is the proto, but I have no inside info:
[img] [/img]

Edit: Actually - that might be the 29er. If so, I can't see the seat tube kink which is interesting.

perfect storm which killed the 26 will be forgotten.

really wanted a matt green 26" rocket in size m,
but the storm has blown me away..

Ever tried running your own manufacturing business - it's just SO easy...

I´m running my own business since more than 20 years

That is the 29er and there is a curve in the seat tube, it's just very well hidden. Same design will feature on the 275. Might not have managed to make any Fs frames these last couple of years, but we have learnt lots.

cy - Member

That is the 29er and there is a curve in the seat tube, it's just very well hidden. Same design will feature on the 275. Might not have managed to make any Fs frames these last couple of years, but we have learnt lots.

Fair play cy for being open, not many would openly be honest about wrong decisions.

Well I'm probably going to be full sus shopping next year and it'll be high on my list.

Cy, seeing as your around, I assume you've shelved the mini Rocket for the foreseeable?

If we could have done the 26 along side the other wheel sizes then we would have. I wish we had kept making bikes for people instead of throwing all in for the manufacturing firm, but that's 20:20 hindsight.

I still ride my 26 and it's such a good bike. Problem was that the 275 and 29 share a lot of features, most notably said curved seat tube. We either needed a whole other set of jigs and fixtures for those on top of the 26 versions or for an awful lot less investment on our part we could modify the 26 inch and not be able to make them any more. Realistically given this is 2015 I had to make the decision based on what we will make in the future, I chose to modify the existing jigs.

Any projects other than rocket are just too far away to comment on. We're obviously working on other bikes but let's just concentrate on getting rockets back first eh?

Any word on the Rocket 29 or is it still down the line?

Still down the line, but we're a lot closer to the final article as we got to the bottom of the stiffness issues that we had on the first prototype. I definitely want to make them, it will be a matter of timing and finance more than anything now.

People are judged not by the mistakes they make but by how they deal with those mistakes. You seem to be dealing with them well, Cy. Well done. I guess it's been tougher than you ever expected.

And as soon as I get bored with my Mk1 Soul I'll be replacing it with another Cotic.

But I'm not bored with it.

Any plans for updated geometry on the existing bikes, Cy? I know the Soul is somethign of a classic as is, but a smidge mote TT would accomodate us six footers wanting short stems a bit better.

(Maybe a longer slacker HT to sit alongside the Soul, even. You can call it the George)

jambalaya hows that BFe...I am thinking of getting one 🙂

Just out of interest, are the new Rocket frames going to include the changes to the suspension linkage as per the ones designed for UK manufacture and the bonded dropouts etc. or are they going to retain the system of the first 26" frames?

Honourablegeorge - all the new hardtails have our new OFI geomtery introduced on the Soul275 which is a little longer but crucially doesn't lose room if used with an inline seatpost. Soul26 are about to sell the last ones and we're not getting any more, but 275 and 29 bikes all fit a little better than the 26 bikes now.

Jimw - the incoming bike is similar to the original rocket. A lot of those changes we were looking at weren't really for performance they were to optimise the construction for what we thought we could do in the UK.

George, the Soul and BFe 275 are both about 20mm longer in reach & ETT than the 26 versions, size for size, and the BFe 275 is just over a degree slacker than the 26 version.

the BFe 275 TT is even longer as on the solaris !
solaris 625m and the Bfe275 631mm, both size large
seems like a quite different geo..
old Bfe was 610mm

Ta cy/chief...

Damn. Very short of excuses for not upgrading now.

Thanks Cy, just interested really. To be honest,my experience of bonded parts on frames has not been great*, even though I know things have moved on and they glue aeroplanes and cars together etc.etc. so the lack of that element would be a positive for me, if only to allay irrational worries!

* I broke three Trek carbon frames, two were at bonded joints.

You're exactly right, that was the biggest mistake I made, amongst others. Plenty of mistakes were made over 2013/14, and we pissed a lot of people off.

All I can do is learn from that (hence not giving exact dates or opening orders until we have firm delivery details) and get some great frames made and try and persuade people to buy them.

Good on you for pitching up and I genuinely hope it works out. I'm not so bothered about the Rocket but have always admired the Soul.

You just need to take those Bird chaps round the back of the bike sheds and duff them up though. 😉

accu - Member
the BFe 275 TT is even longer as on the solaris !
solaris 625m and the Bfe275 631mm, both size large
seems like a quite different geo..
old Bfe was 610mm

As Cy stated, design philosiphy changed slightly to compensate for dropper posts. So slacker seat angle gives an increase is TT length for no change in reach. Seat tube angle dosnt usually effect most people as changing between inline and offset and sliding saddle forward-back can usually get seat in same position regardless of angle.

You need to be nice and ask Cy to supply reach figures for the 26 to do a proper comparison.

Soul275 with 120mm forks has same reach as Soul26 with 100mm forks (because no-one uses 100mm forks anymore, right?)

http://www.cotic.co.uk/geek/optimised_for_inline

thanks....but...

I never used 120mm forks on my Bfe...
and never used an offset post..... 😀

and I´m definitely not in the market for an 275..
maybe for another medium 26" BFe from the last batch,later this summer

this is the thread to launch the rockets...so

Cy
As your here, any news on prices, timescales (appreciate it won't be until around October) and spec for BFe275 11speed XT builds
Last time I emailed you you said you where looking at a few options for different parts on the complete builds so couldn't confirm anything

Or are you going to update the website with rolling chassis options or am I best phoning to discuss?

Basically I want a BFe275, I'd like to wait for 11speed XT but getting a rolling chassis (frame, fork, wheels etc) and borrowing some parts from my other bike for a few months might be an option if specs/prices are likely to change significantly

As for the Bird upstarts - it's not steel is it

In a world where all is delivered next day I'm guessing when the rocket comes out, it will be worth the wait 😉 in the meantime I'll be content with my soul 650b....

JeZ

My next frame would be a 26" Rocket if you still made them Cy. Not interested in a 27.5 for a while yet, at 5'7" and not a racer they don't hold enough advantages to buy a whole new bike. Have to see what comes up 2nd hand when the time comes to change. Shame. Damn this stupid, greedy industry.

Just had an email to say they're arriving next month, look and sound nice, and the geo on paper looks 'bang on trend' (I think).

Bit early for me but I'll definitely be demoing one as soon as possible.

http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/rocket#sizing

[img] [/img]

Holy mother ****ing hell its arrived!!!!

Looks very nice indeed

thumbs up

Looks good! Not a bad price for the complete either.

good luck to them, but too late for me now.

£3599 - "not a bad price"

What's your job Cokie??

🙂

That's right nice. Bit too much bike for the majority of riding I do though!

IT, obviously 😛

In all seriousness- a small manufacturer producing a frame from a nice steel with solid forks, groupset, wheels, dropper and finishing kit isn't bad for £3600.

By comparison my Whyte T129 SCR Works is £3100 for a similar spec with boring ali frame & produced in larger numbers.

Bird Aeris RS @ £3700 gets you Pikes and carbon wheels.

The Whyte is £500 less and has a Pike on it.

Still happy with my 26" wheeled version.

Looks as good with mid-sized wheels though.

Ooooooo. And here's me having just sold my 150mm FS bike too. Was wondering what to replace it with. 😀

Looks flippin ace.

Would be in the market for a 130mm'ish version.

slimjim78 - Member

Looks flippin ace.

Would be in the market for a 130mm'ish version.

I had a 26 rocket and it was really good, I miss it. Steel frames are fun.

Saw someone on the 29er rocket in the peak the other week, looked a bit ungainly to me, I do like the 26 though

As per theend^^^, don't rule it out because you think it's too much travel. The way it rides is the travel is there when you need it but it doesn't really feel it when it's not...

I'm really not a 6" travel FS guy and I thought the 26er was ace. Only moved it on because I wasn't riding, let alone in need of FS. Mind you, I have just put the HR's back on the Soul....

Hope things go better this time Cy (much better!)

As per theend^^^, don't rule it out because you think it's too much travel. The way it rides is the travel is there when you need it but it doesn't really feel it when it's not...

You wouldn't choose it as an XC bike though would you?

Either way, good luck to them. I hope it sells like hot cakes.

rp: 130mm isn't exactly XC is it? Only 20mm short. As discussed at length the first time around, a reduced travel Rocket would still weigh the same. So why not just take the extra (for when you just might need it)?

Oh, I rode the same places I rode my HT's (but mainly the Firmounth/Fungle/Glen Tanar).

Still loving my 26" wheeled Rocket, it's just so much fun to ride! I guess when I finally get around to catching up with the times and buy a 650b machine then the Rocket will be the obvious choice. Good luck with it Cy although to be honest I don't think luck will come into it, a bike as sorted and fun as the Rocket will sell all day long. Guess I'm going to be spotting a few more Rockets out on the trails now!

Ooooooo. And here's me having just sold my 150mm FS bike too. Was wondering what to replace it with

Had my first spin on my new (to me) 26" rocket last night. Feels really, really nice (not that up and down the road and over a few bumps is a great test). The front felt like it wanted to rail into turns (where my old frame didn't). Can't wait to try it out on proper trails.

Appreciate you can't please everyone but green or orange? blehhhh.
Black black Black all day long (or possibly dark blue or dark red)

Dark red??? Surely not

Green and orange seen to be classic Cotic colours. So a bit of brand identity rather than just following the crowd seems good to me.

But as you rightly say, you can't please everyone.

metalheart - Member

So why not just take the extra (for when you just might need it)?

you're mostly right, but there are things to consider:

# longer travel bikes tend to stand higher 'pre-sag' - you might not like that extra BB height (if it is higher)

# you might not be experience the full range of travel behaviour (you might only be using the travel where it's in it's 'linear' phase, or whatever).

# a longer travel frame needs longer travel forks - they tend to be more expensive and heavier.

like i said, you're mostly right. but a shitey old mincer like me, given the choice, would take the frame that's optimised for less travel.

Lets be honest CF or aluminium at the cheaper end of the market are much better materials for shorter travel bikes. Steel only starts to makes sense for longer travel bikes that need the strength and would be heavy anyway. Even then CF is probably a better frame material.

@awhiles: forks these days are quite often 160 travel. You want shorter you have to shim down so basically you're the same weight ... 😀 Not sure the point re b/b you're making, just sit on the damn thing and it's the right height ... 😀
Personally, re travel behaviour I think you're over thinking it! I just rode the damn thing once I'd the rear set up (added 10 psi a couple times until it felt right) I left it. Not once did I find my mind drifting to its 'behaviour'

I was commenting against 130mm v 150mm. I can see no reason to discount the a Rocket on this basis. You want a shorter travel frame, fine, it'll probably end up lighter too. As a shitey old mincer myself I loved the long, slack and low (made me a bit less mincey). YMMV.

Lets be honest CF or aluminium at the cheaper end of the market are much better materials for shorter travel bikes. Steel only starts to makes sense for longer travel bikes that need the strength and would be heavy anyway. Even then CF is probably a better frame material

Really? Could you justify that?

Steel only starts to makes sense for longer travel bikes that need the strength and would be heavy anyway.

I think this was pretty much agreed three years ago on the 26" version. People were asking for a 100mm version and Cy went 'it would weigh the same'.

Define 'better'...

metalheart - Member

...re travel behaviour I think you're over thinking it! I just rode the damn thing once I'd the rear set up (added 10 psi a couple times until it felt right) I left it. Not once did I find my mind drifting to its 'behaviour'

it sounds like your mind drifted to it's 'behaviour' at least 'a couple of times'...

no?

People were asking for a 100mm version and Cy went 'it would weigh the same'.

this is something i've never really got out of Cy, he makes the BFe, a whacking great lump of robust awesomeness. He could make it out of Aluminium, and it would be cheaper and lighter.

Clearly weight isn't everthing in the world of Cotic hardtails. but as soon as we're talking FS frames, it's a driving function.

(except it isn't, the Rocket isn't one for the gram counters)

He could make it out of Aluminium, and it would be cheaper and lighter

you're right. but i really don't think Cy wants to exploit anyone.

if he was up for a bit of exploitation, he'd have knocked out a steel 100mm Rocket, and raked in the cash.

a 29er rocket would probably sell like hot cakes too, but he says it's not for sale till he can make it work.

he's a gent.

it sounds like your mind drifted to it's 'behaviour' at least 'a couple of times'...

Hehe, maybe... but in reality it was more 'I'm getting pedal strike, I'd better put in more puff' rather than, hmm, that last bump, the travel felt decided, hell, was it [i]non-linear?[/i]... And once I'd got the sag sorted that was it. So, only on a couple of rides.

BFe in Alu? Well, he couldn't call it a BFe then could he!

Exploit may be a strong word but you get my meaning

I too would be interested in a shorter, lighter, less gnar rocket but I doubt that kind of thing would rake in the cash