Cost of cycling (and other hobbies) crisis?

LOL at square taper being an issue. How many RS7's are still going years later? FSA Powerpro were the exception, not the rule.

I use trains in central Scotland reasonably frequently and find them cheap quick and convenient.

Edinburgh - Milngavie? Either line works fine and doesn't have booking for bikes, same for me in Ayrshire. Try looking at anywhere beyond Dunblane and you'll find they're neither quick nor convenient. 156's have 2 bike spaces (if you ride a balance bike), Intercity now has 6 and both require booking. More importantly, for this context, none of the central services take you close to anywhere particularly good for mountain biking except maybe Cambusbarron and Dunoon (if you come from the right direction!).

None of them are cheap, even accounting for wear and tear it's cost neutral for me to drive and with one other occupant I'm quids in. It's a bloody nonsense.

Agree, but the top-end seems waaaaaay bigger now too. When I started club rides in ’94-95, I’d say the (then) £600ish sector (Cinder Cones, Orange Clockworks etc) was most of the market. It wasn’t big among people with jobs and disposable income. Now I feel like a lot of sales (the majority?) are to the older, richer crowd.

I started riding with a club at the same time, and quickly went from a £400 bike to a £700 bike, and wasn't alone. But you are right, in sentiment. Not many people had particularly expensive bikes. But, of course, the prices started going up when the bikes were more than just a rigid steel F&F. I'm quite happy to justify a £2k spend on a HT with excellent fork, decent drivetrain, dropper post, brilliantly effective brakes and grippy tyres.

And on that last part - people complain about the cost of tyres, for instance, but the ones we use these days were almost unimaginable in 1994.

Take for example square-tapered cranks. Anything more than moderate use would just round the spindle off and into the bin they’d go

Lol! 'Moderate use"? WTF are you doing to round off a STEEL axle with an ALUMINIUM crank? I've got SqT BBs that have outlasted bike frames. The one in my commuter may well be approaching 30 years old. When did Shimano introduce the cartridge BBs? I'm pretty sure it's from that era. Got at least another 3 or 4 on bikes that have to be getting on for 15-20 years old. Ridden in all weathers, still spinning smoothly. I've serviced even older Cup n Cone BBs that still work fine after 40 years or more.

Rear mechs (along with hangers) used to be fairly disposable, and rim brakes would wear through wheel rims…

Currently running XTR M950 (2003), XT M737 (1996), 2x Deore M510 (2002/3) mechs. Been running a set of Mavic 212 rims with V-brakes on my commuter for at least 8 years now, and they were s/h when I got them. Still fine. Got a set of 717s on my Wife's bike that must be from mid 2000s. Open Pros on my road bike from about 2003. Admittedly those haven't had as much use though.

Square taper BB remain the only part of any MTB I've routinely destroyed. I could go through 2-3 a year just riding big woody XC singletrack circles in the Chilterns. Outboard BB BB were a God-send.

Reading a couple of comment in the thread. Both my bikes have common drivetrain, and brakes, so parts could be inter-changable if I needed to, but as some-one else suggested, my MTB is pretty much my only spending priority, my winter evening hobby is plastic aircraft kits and all the kit for that is bought and paid for, so really just kits and occasional pot of paint, so for me personally things would have to get pretty bad before I stopped.

I recently did wear out a front wheel rim with canti brakes actually. TBF the rim was nearly 20 years old, but still. It does happen.

But my 1993 LX rear mech will never die. (I have replaced the jockey wheels in it, mind)

I have a “cheap” enduro bike in the form of a Calibre Sentry Pro that has done a ridiculous number of miles in the last year including group trips to Revs, Dyfi and a longer journey to BPW for my 50th. It cost me less than lots of hardtails and has been a superb bike, it will do pretty much anything and hasn’t cost much in comparison to many bikes, especially if I keep it for a while. There are quite a few cheap ish second hand ones knocking about, which as long as you check the mech hanger locator bolt, are a cheap way to get a pretty spectacular enduro bike. It also gets used for family bimbling and popping to the shops, which on todays fuel prices saves a fair amount. Most of my rides are local, which helps keep costs down too… but how much are decent helmets!!!

LOL at square taper being an issue. How many RS7’s are still going years later?

Mine are 18 years old.
TBF they are on their third BB

When I started club rides in ’94-95, I’d say the (then) £600ish sector (Cinder Cones, Orange Clockworks etc) was most of the market. It wasn’t big among people with jobs and disposable income. Now I feel like a lot of sales (the majority?) are to the older, richer crowd.

Also true. When I started racing, back in 1998, up until around ten years ago I guess, anyone who had a car which cost more than their bike, a very small minority, would have the mickey taken. Now the car parks are full of fancy cars (most on finance I suspect)
We all had big money bikes and cheap cars, I had a £1,500 Marin Attack Trail in 1999 and no car, I got my first car in 2005 for £200, I was riding a £2,400 Marin Mt Vision Pro at the time, followed in 2009 by a £5k Yeti when I had a £750 Mondeo, that was normal. Best ratio I ever saw was a £7k Bianchi and an old Saab 99 which was rescued from a scrappy for £50 and somehow coaxed through an MOT.

A mate of mine and my good self did 16k worth of EMTB's in a £500 Mk1 focus estate last weekend. Not sure what the ratio is there but it's a good effort none the less.

Also true. When I started racing, back in 1998, up until around ten years ago I guess, anyone who had a car which cost more than their bike, a very small minority, would have the mickey taken. Now the car parks are full of fancy cars (most on finance I suspect)

Isn't that more of a comment on easy credit, cheaper car insurance once you reach a certain age and general living standards?

In much the same way that when you're a student, you live in some absolute hovels and buy discount food and goods but then as an adult, you actually have some standards around the house you live in / car you drive etc!

Yes and no.
It was for me and those my age, say early twenties. No responsibilities, no mortgage, no chance of insuring a fast car, we spent everything on bikes and as little as we could on cars.
However, those who were older, say forties like I am now, were similar - cheap car and expensive bikes.
However, now I see in all age groups that they all have much fancier cars (both in absolute terms and relative to their bikes)
My 12:1 bike/car cost was maybe an outlier back in 2005, I would guess 3:1 would have been typical, but now I'm older and a bit wealthier I'm at maybe 1:1 race bike/van but most people appear to have cars which are worth loads more than their bikes, my age group and younger, we almost never saw that back then.
Neil up there^ would have been normal back in the early 2000s but is probably a bit odd nowadays, regardless of how old he is

With mortgages and food prices and car fuel and energy bills being at their current levels and rising I can’t really see how anyone won’t be “trimming their cloth”.

Depends on luck or organisation to some degree though doesn't it? I'm in fixed mortgage and energy for some while. I've got around a year to sort out better insulation and alternative energy heating before I fall off my fixed rate. I'm lucky not smart in that regard, but I suspect a lot of people have at least some of their bills fixed. Don't get me wrong there will be plenty who don't and all those other costs will add up too, but that might just be the correction the finance driven market madness of ebikes that regularly top out at over 10k needs.

Maybe going back to simpler more durable equipment

Well ahead of you for last 20 years. Brakeless fixed gear is where it is at. I ride in every part on the New Forest around 4 times a week all year round and my only expenses are a new chain and tyres each year.

Brakeless fixed gear is where it is at.

😆

The thing is we can (and it seems will) see a move back to cheaper parts and technology.

From an LBS and bike industry point of view though, this will have an impact in reducing turnover and profit.

I think it's going to impact some destinations - we've always had an autumnal trip to Laggan as a family. It's not happening this year - and the cafe and shop surely is marginal there without further afield guests like us.

Well ahead of you for last 20 years. Brakeless fixed gear is where it is at. I ride in every part on the New Forest around 4 times a week all year round and my only expenses are a new chain and tyres each year.

So move to the Fens (or equivalent) is the answer, thanks no thanks.

The thing is we can (and it seems will) see a move back to cheaper parts and technology.

Yep, my hunch is the past two years' worth of price hikes won't fully stick.

Of course some of it was driven by material price rises and economic factors, but its obvious that opportunism played a part too.

You know what I'd rather have than a fixie with no brakes? A buss pass. And haemorrhoids.

Of course some of it was driven by material price rises and economic factors, but its obvious that opportunism played a part too.

A lot, I think, was driven by or at least enabled by cheap credit.
Yes it existed before 2020, but 0% finance when everything is full price and not a discounted bike or part to be found, got people onto bikes they otherwise wouldn't buy.

From an LBS and bike industry point of view though, this will have an impact in reducing turnover and profit.

See, I don't buy into that at all.

Sure, you have your halo models that have gone north at an astonishing rate over the last 20 years but that's not what the majority or I bet even a significant proportion of cyclists buy.

Stop looking at it through a narrow lense and you'll see there are plenty of opportunities at the lower end of the market where people just want to replace a car. Yes, there is still a sliding scale but there are plenty of sub-£300 bikes that are good enough for that.

Take Troon, they had 2 bike shops a few years ago, one was your typical lower end shop that has a main brand you probably haven't heard of (Tiger), sells second hand and does a lot of maintenance (shop and mobile). The other was a boutique type place selling high end Orbea road bikes. Take a guess who is still in business.

Honda didn't go out of business when they stopped making the NSX and neither did their dealers.

See, I don’t buy into that at all.

Sure, you have your halo models that have gone north at an astonishing rate over the last 20 years but that’s not what the majority or I bet even a significant proportion of cyclists buy.

Halo products are where all the margin is. Entry level products are sold close to cost.

There's plenty of margin at both ends of the market, hense why some posh bike shops stay in business and some selling bso stay in business as well.

Halo products are where all the margin is. Entry level products are sold close to cost.

I've never heard a bike shop owner claim the halo stuff kept them in business. The stuff that flies out the door on the other hand...

Yep, my hunch is the past two years’ worth of price hikes won’t fully stick.

Of course some of it was driven by material price rises and economic factors, but its obvious that opportunism played a part too.

I'm not wholly convinced.

I think the UK is an outlier with a plummeting currency. 15 years ago the top of the range Cannondale Rush was £4000, carbon frame, XTR, etc etc. Now the equivalent bikes are £8000. Over the same time period the £ has devalued by 50% against the dollar. I suspect if you're in the USA then you'd be enjoying golden age of durable cheap MTB components at the moment!

If it was still £1:$2 then those "bargain" £105 GX cassettes at R2 would be ~£65, which suddenly seems a whole lot more acceptable to those of us brought up with 8/9/10speed £35 XT cassettes.

Especially based on 'cost of living', my US colleagues are all comfortably earning double the UK rate.
Average UK wage £36k, average US wage is $75k.

If it was still £1:$2 then those “bargain” £105 GX cassettes at R2 would be ~£65, which suddenly seems a whole lot more acceptable to those of us brought up with 8/9/10speed £35 XT cassettes.

yeah, I'm still mentally at 1.4 or 1.5 to 1 with the dollar. Whenever I see prices quoted in dollars and I think that wont be too bad unless the importers take the piss... but its nearly 1:1 now.
Not just US brands, all the far east stuff is priced in dollars isnt it?

Halo products are where all the margin is. Entry level products are sold close to cost.

I'm not sure that is correct...had a mate who ran a bike shop and as much as he enjoyed selling the top-end kit, he was always happier selling the cheaper stuff as the margins were much bigger so he was able to pay bills with less stress.

Then there was volume - larger margin on the cheaper stuff and was able to sell more of that level.

Halo stuff is always nice to look at, aim for and desire, but it costs more money to get in so unless you are certain to sell it, it is a risk...certainly for eye catching stuff to draw people in, they certainly help, but they don't make the money for the bike shop as easily as the cheaper stuff.

Saw this video on Youtube last week of a talk done by Ronnie aka Mr. Ultradynamico. If you've got some spare time to listen to the whole thing it might resonate with some of the OldSkool riders on here, I only intended to watch a few minutes...then sat through the whole thing. I like and agree with almost every thing he has to say about the current state of the bike industry- in the way that modern mtb has become something quite different to back then, and yet at the same time, it doesn't have to be. This way of thinking is probably more pertinent than ever given whats happening to most peoples finances in the UK, we're going backwards while the rest of the world leaves us behind, yet we'll still be paying prices set on an international market. Retro is the new cool...has been for a while.

Philly bike Expo Ultradynamico

I’m not sure that is correct…had a mate who ran a bike shop and as much as he enjoyed selling the top-end kit, he was always happier selling the cheaper stuff as the margins were much bigger so he was able to pay bills with less stress.

Margin is never the same across suppliers, or even within categories from the same supplier, and is unlikely to be the same from shop to shop. One business may have got a better rate by buying into a brand - forward ordering many £1000s worth of product to achieve a better price. Some suppliers give different margins on different lines. One business may pay it's invoices early specifically to gain a discount, whereas other companies may pay their bills at the very last minute, or later, ignoring the savings they may have achieved. There are all sorts of incentives for bike shops to gain better rates, but not all LBSs can take advantage of those. (EG do you want a 50% margin on mudguards? Just buy £X000 net worth in one consignment and then you can achieve it.) Many LBSs will never sell the amount needed to achieve best margin.

The amount of time it takes to fix a cheap bike when they come out of the box Im not sure the margins are all that good. If its costing you workshop rates to spend an hour fixing the egg shaped wheels, making the brakes actually work, or replacing the already pinch flatted tube (All things I had to do on a decent brand's kid's bike recently) you're not making money on it.

Shunting them out the door in their original boxes. Thats where the money is at!

I was about to buy a new bike but decided to spend the money going to North India to ride. I can't do both and big mountains on an old bike are always better than local hills on a new bike.

Halo products are where all the margin is. Entry level products are sold close to cost.

Have you ever worked in the bike retail industry? The average cost of a new bike in the UK is under £400. Given that the vast majority of bike sold will be at this point or lower, the 'halo' products really don't make bike shops much money. The returns might be higher, but you're not shifting the units. Halfords sell many thousands of bicycles each week, the majority of those being kids' bikes. Halfords enjoys a 20-25% share of the UK bike retail market. Decathlon also sell large volumes of cheap bikes. MTBs are a relatively small (and shrinking) sector. That sector has become more 'specialist', so you'll find a lot more expensive MTBs than other types. Hybrid/commuter bikes are the largest sector of adult bikes. Folding bike sales have rocketed in the last decade, as have e-bikes in the last 5 or so. I think e-bikes are the fastest expanding sector now, and MTBs the fastest shrinking. The kind of customers who once bought an MTB as standard (late 80s-early 2000s) now buy road bikes, hybrids, folding bikes and e-bikes before they buy MTBs. also; second hand bike sales have increased loads, and those figures aren't included in the new bike sales figures of course. So the actual real median (or is it mode) amount spent on a bicycle in the UK right now, is probably significantly lower than £400.

Bike shops have had to radically alter their business models in order to survive. Some have gone more specialist, with dedicated roadie/e-bike etc shops popping up, and others are far more repair and servicing focussed now. There are even lots more community recycle type projects going now. Due to online sales, most bike shops have given up trying to compete for component sales, and now rely more on helmets/clothing/accessories. Gone are the days when you could pop into your LBS and they'd have the correct size/fitting XT/XTR/Dura Ace/Ulegra/whatever mech in stock. Most things now have to be ordered in (some shops even just tell customers to buy it themselves online, and charge for fitting and set-up). Which is a shame, cos I used to like going in and drooling over the stuff in the Shiny Bits Cabinets.

Which is a shame, cos I used to like going in and drooling over the stuff in the Shiny Bits Cabinets.

Most of the old school shops i've gone in recently are more likely to have a dusty bits cabinet than a shiny bits one.

If you’ve got some spare time to listen to the whole thing it might resonate with some of the OldSkool riders on here, I only intended to watch a few minutes…then sat through the whole thing

Is there a TL;DR version of that? I'm afraid I zoned out after just a couple of minutes. His delivery isn't the best.

yeah, I’m still mentally at 1.4 or 1.5 to 1 with the dollar.

I'm still at around 1.6:1. Late 90s. Was easy to work out dollars to pounds, as it was more or less the same as kilometres to miles.

Most of the old school shops i’ve gone in recently are more likely to have a dusty bits cabinet than a shiny bits one.

🤣 I did find a Chris King headset in a LBS a few years back; it had been there for well over 10 years. I know, because I'd enquired about buying it way back then, but they weren't willing to budge on RRP. It had been there a while even then. Ended up getting it for about £75. It still sits in my spares box as we speak....🫢

Not just US brands, all the far east stuff is priced in dollars isnt it?

Yes, or mostly US$ with Taiwan $ / NTD for some parts. 35NTD to the £ now, was 45-50 8 years or so ago. Guess when it dropped.

As people above have said I don't think we on here are typical bike buyers.
To use a car analogy we all have Ferraris, Koenigsegs,and Paganis (and the singlespeeders like me insisting that their Caterhams are great) but most people are just buying a Golf or Focus to get about in, often not new and often maintained as cheaply as possible. That is the bulk of the market, not us lot and our track-day specials.

As equivalents I'm more in to an the old 80's air-cooled 911 version of things...in fact not much modern stuff interests me of anything on the market fullstop, but I realise this is strange. We don't all have to be tech fetishists- be a marketing departments worst nightmare, might help save the planet too.

Retro is the new cool…has been for a while.

Philly bike Expo Ultradynamico

Yep quite a fe account if inst with people repurposing old bikes

I watch that talk as well quite enjoyed it and again agree with a lot of it. I have thought for some while mtb has split into two sections. I enjoy both but it's easier to KISS on the bike packing / touring / adventures side than the ENDURO side. I do wish the ENDURO side took a few lessons from skate / bmx and became more rider owned and run. A bit more standardisation etc. The trouble is so much of that side of the market is obsessed with buying a product, buying bikes a s a unit rather than sum of parts etc. Look at all the people in fox shirts.

Halfords sell many thousands of bicycles each week, the majority of those being kids’ bikes. Halfords enjoys a 20-25% share of the UK bike retail market. Decathlon also sell large volumes of cheap bikes. MTBs are a relatively small (and shrinking) sector. That sector has become more ‘specialist’, so you’ll find a lot more expensive MTBs than other types. Hybrid/commuter bikes are the largest sector of adult bikes. Folding bike sales have rocketed in the last decade, as have e-bikes in the last 5 or so. I think e-bikes are the fastest expanding sector now, and MTBs the fastest shrinking. The kind of customers who once bought an MTB as standard (late 80s-early 2000s) now buy road bikes, hybrids, folding bikes and e-bikes before they buy MTBs.

Its a very hard thing to define. If we are talking about cycling or mtbing as a hobby, how do we capture that value, and exclude the general purpose halfords/decathalon bike that will never see dirt, or even a ride-for-the-sake-of-a-ride?

Richard Cunningham in the Pinkbike podcast talks about the rise of the cheapish mtb in the 90s - an upright position with brakes that worked, tyres that were still at a ridable pressure after sitting in the garage for a month, and gears for the average unfit person to get up a hill.
That was missing from the road, BMX or cruisers that were the only other options at the time.
Now we have expensive bouncy bits, tyres that drag and wear out on tarmac and need sealant and stuff. Its not the idiot proof bike it used to be. Sensible hybrids have filled that void.

What was the bike selected in STWs recent article on the cheapest possible practical entry to the sport? it was more than the £400 average UK bike value.

So either MTBs are so rare that overall bike industry statistics are meaningless, or there are a whole load of £150 Apollos that are defined as MTBs, again, making it a rather pointless exercise.

Its a very hard thing to define. If we are talking about cycling or mtbing as a hobby, how do we capture that value, and exclude the general purpose halfords/decathalon bike that will never see dirt, or even a ride-for-the-sake-of-a-ride?

But bikes like that may well see 'dirt', albeit in the form of a bridalway, footpath etc. It doesn't have to be 1000m+ and granite-strewn to be 'off road'. And there are a hell of a lot more bikes like that out there than there are expensive FS bikes. Many get used simply as utility/commuting bikes. My point was that that sector is still shrinking, and is nowhere near the heyday of the late 80s-early 90s when MTBs were the largest selling sector in adult bikes. You'll still see far more hybrid style bikes out there; the 'Dutch' style bike is increasingly popular in urban centres now too. Bikes bought with the sole purpose of riding off road in more demanding terrain, are dwindling in number. It's become an increasingly specialist niche. Of course, you can ride any sort of bike off road if you really want to, but the marketing bods won't tell you that.

Richard Cunningham in the Pinkbike podcast talks about the rise of the cheapish mtb in the 90s – an upright position with brakes that worked, tyres that were still at a ridable pressure after sitting in the garage for a month, and gears for the average unfit person to get up a hill.
That was missing from the road, BMX or cruisers that were the only other options at the time.
Now we have expensive bouncy bits, tyres that drag and wear out on tarmac and need sealant and stuff. Its not the idiot proof bike it used to be. Sensible hybrids have filled that void.

It's a good, valid point. The difference is that late 80s / early 90s ATBs were cool and exciting but hybrids aren't, never were. 'Flat bar gravel' is a carbon-forked point-missed attempt to recreate that original ATB buzz while most brands making entry level MTBs now think they need to be copies of more expensive modern MTBS. They get poor quality suspension forks when a good rigid steel fork and 2.25" tyres was all they ever needed. Halfords figured all this out and made the Carrera Subway, I wouldn't be suprised if they made more money on that bike in a year than most specialist MTB companies did.

Bikes bought with the sole purpose of riding off road in more demanding terrain, are dwindling in number. It’s become an increasingly specialist niche.

Increasingly electrified too.

As equivalents I’m more in to an the old 80’s air-cooled 911 version of things…in fact not much modern stuff interests me of anything on the market fullstop, but I realise this is strange. We don’t all have to be tech fetishists- be a marketing departments worst nightmare, might help save the planet too.

Yes, but like that 80's 911 these 'retro' bikes pretty much sit in garages & sheds not getting dirty and not getting (properly) used.

For me bikes are just like cars (and motorbikes which I use to have) - they get used, serviced/repaired/updated and then replaced as and when they need to be.

Is there a TL;DR version of that?

I guess the key thing is he's pointing out that the cycling culture in the US is increasingly influenced in the mainstream by a small collection of venture capitalists who own a lot of the brands but also the key marketing magazines like "Outside" - and that this modern version of 'mtb' has reached a sort of zenith of marketed commodity heavy 'lifestyle experience' activity that sits quite at odds with the more counter-cultural adventurous spirit of early mtb'ers. This has been true for a long time, but I think he's right now more than ever as pricing continues to go up on a lot of kit we're convinced we need... and so pulling up the drawbridge of participation. As as a lot of commentators above recognise though, some of the best aspects of the sport we're in to can be done in a more low-fi, low-key way - that we don't need to be going at warp factor 9 with all the latest Enduro gnardude gear on, and that contrary to popular opinion you can ride simply durable ATB type bikes up gnarly mountains and its different but still fun, maybe more so.

Yes, but like that 80’s 911 these ‘retro’ bikes pretty much sit in garages & sheds not getting dirty and not getting (properly) used

Are they? Our oldest bike is a 1998 Cannondale F400, that still gets regular use. My newest bike is over 10 years old. My most used bike is 19 years old and still going strong. And I know plenty of people still regularly riding old bikes. Plenty of life left in the old dogs yet!

@Endoverend; ah, thanks. Pretty much my own views tbh.

cycling culture in the US is increasingly influenced in the mainstream by a small collection of venture capitalists who own a lot of the brands but also the key marketing magazines like “Outside” – and that this modern version of ‘mtb’ has reached a sort of zenith of marketed commodity heavy ‘lifestyle experience’ activity

wait what? either I don't see this at all, or (possibly more likely) I am myself a victim of it. Can you elaborate? Though I appreciate you are merely summarising the podcast.

cycling culture in the US is increasingly influenced in the mainstream by a small collection of venture capitalists who own a lot of the brands but also the key marketing magazines like “Outside” – and that this modern version of ‘mtb’ has reached a sort of zenith of marketed commodity heavy ‘lifestyle experience’ activity

Whilst there are ripples of that in the UK (every trail center car park has a corner where the T5's congregate), the US is very different. Join a few MTB groups on facebook and they very much buy into it. Nothing is ridden from your door, it's all "should I spec a LS V8 or Cummins in my truck to drive to Bentonville". They're counterculture, but mostly in the Trump voting rather than Grateful Dead listening way.

Not just US brands, all the far east stuff is priced in dollars isnt it?

Yup... and no matter where your brand is based... where are their forks, brakes, shock, drivetrain, tyres... etc likely to made and bought from? Some will be from UK manufacturers, but not the majority.

Some will be from UK manufacturers, but not the majority.

The strange to watch aspect is that Hope stuff is slowly looking closer to the mainstream brands pricing. A Pair of Pro2 hubs is now only ~30% more than a set of XT or Bitex! Same for a set of V4's Vs XT 4-pots.

Wasn't that long ago that Hope was a halfway stop between XTR and Chris King!

and that this modern version of ‘mtb’ has reached a sort of zenith of marketed commodity heavy ‘lifestyle experience’ activity

Did you mean 'nadir'?

I am not that aware of the situation, and this may be a US specific thing, but certainly in the last decade many well known brands we are familiar with are snapped up by a relatively small number of investors where they sit alongside other similar brands in their portfolios - and the relationships are not always that transparent. This sort of thing has come under more scrutiny recently thanks to the other more nefarious activities some of these parent companies also fund and support. But the key is also that they own a lot of the media companies distributing the marketing message... he mentions Lance Armstrong having a major involvement, which wasn't something I was aware of but it's interesting. Bare in mind Ronnie used to be a Specialised sponsored rider and has worked in the trade, so seems to know the ins and outs, as well as having resplendent hair. The way I see it, what has changed for us in the UK is that increasingly since the advent of social media and predominance of sites such as Pinkbike, more of the younger riders here identify with the culture exemplified by the US scene - without perhaps fully realising the vast differences in spending power of the average UK vs US rider, so to do the thing we think we want to do we're relatively robbed for it. While the translation of the type of riding for our relative terrain doesn't always warrant it.

The way I see it, what has changed for us in the UK is that increasingly since the advent of social media and predominance of sites such as Pinkbike, more of the younger riders here identify with the culture exemplified by the US scene....While the translation of the type of riding for our relative terrain doesn’t always warrant it.

Interesting. I am in the younger age on here, and didn't start mtbing until my twenties. My formative information was 100% internet.
I've never bought a paper mtb magazine, never watched a VHS mtb video.

Terrain/trail wise, here in the south of england I probably have more in common with Mike Kazimer in Bellingham than most of STW towers and their local haunts.