I'm a dog/dog owner hater.
Probably because the pavement around where I live is covered in their presents. Every time I go for a walk, I have to step in the road to allow a dog walker and 25m lead to use the entire pavement or get a filthy one jumping up on me (normally a horrible bulldog thing, "he's just being friendly").
I used to commute to work on a disused railway (using a Timber Bell so that I could be heard and cycling at a sensible speed), I lost count of the times I was nearly strangled by a lead, chased or had to jump off and place my bike between me and a dog (usually a Staffy). What is even more annoying is when my 4 year old is riding her bike or walking and she is approached/terrified by a dog twice her size.
Cyclists and dogs will always be create conflict because we are the two main groups that use bridleways(etc) and the two groups are not really compatible.
I totally understand why dogs need to run free but take them where they won't bother me. (Doesn't The Highway Code state they should be "under control" on shared use paths?)
Dogs appear to be a fashion accessory nowadays, especially aggressive looking ones that were specifically bred for fighting (they make lovely pets). We only meet the lucky ones that are taken for a walk, the rest are left in the house all day, chewing it to shreds.
Dear dog owners, get your animal under control (not on a 25m lead) and pick up their droppings!
Once the riders had finished their rant they rode off down the trail. No idea if the bike was damaged, or if the rider was injured. Dog suffered minor abrasions but is fine. Riders didn't make any apology for hitting dog or for their offensive language.
I'm a dog owner also and if I see riders approaching I make sure to keep her nearby or put her on the lead. If the riders approach from behind me and give warning I do the same as i'd rather not have either dog or rider injured in any way.
Can we not adopt a more ski piste like mindset where the person ahead has right of way and the over taking rider should only do so if it's safe.
Ullswater area, i’m not going to be too specific to avoid the should/shouldn’t be riding there anyway argument.
Maybe that is a pretty big part of this particular argument.
Would the dog be on skis in this piste rules scenario?
Would the dog be on skis in this piste rules scenario?
There'll be skiing dogs somewhere in the world i'm sure, not quite what I meant but amusing image nonetheless.
I think we're ignoring the key question here: were they on ebikes?
(Sorry, sorry. Riders were obviously dicks, should go without saying. Crashing (as I like to call a low speed topple) is irrelevant - I'd spend a lot of time on rides shouting at mud, roots, twigs, small pebbles etc if I got cross with everything that made me fall off. Yes dogs and their walkers can be a pain. And...?)
Conjecture here but if this was a cheeky trail and the riders were pinning it then they should wind their necks in. Go away and learn from the experience next time the riders could find themselves on the wrong end of a severe legal kicking.
Out of interest did the lady in question report hearing any of the following phrases from the cyclists
- he’s never done that before
- it’s alright he’s only playing
- he doesn’t like dogs you know he always chases them
- he’s never bitten anybody before
- I always have a swear box with me but I’ve forgotten it this one time, sorry about the mess I’ll just have to leave it
- I know he was standing just in front of you with his teeth out barking and drooling but I can assure you he’s fully under control
Just wondering like
“It’s very difficult to collide with a walker or a dog or a horse if you slow down to an appropriate pace when passing them.”
Wife and dog nearly got flattened up in the Hills by two weekend-warriors using it as a downhill trail. There are blind corners/bends, and the gorse and trees can muffle the sound of bikes. Our little dog was loose and sniffing at a bush. Wife was loose too. She was standing on the gully/path with the dog. Hidden from me by gorse. Both of my charges narrowly missed spoiling the rides of two 14-ish stone men on bikes going about 30mph. I was ahead of family when my keen bikey-senses heard a gear shift and pebble strike uphill out of sight , I twigged what was about to happen and fled back to push/grab dog and wife out of the way of the fine gentlemen, mere seconds before they arrived. I may have lost my shit and shouted a lot. One of them dismounted and made towards me, then thought better of it. Not a great experience for any of us. Could have been so much worse had I not twigged and acted.
Sorry, sorry. Riders were obviously dicks, should go without saying.
I think a bit more evidence is required to show that.
Can think of scenarios where the rider is wrong but likewise can think of some where it wouldnt be unreasonable to get pissed off at someones out of control mutt.
Without more information its complete guesswork.
If the dog was off a lead it's completely reasonable to get grumpy about it. I had an incident only last week where I was riding my road bike and saw a dog off the lead, slowed right down (2-3mph) and it still tried running under my wheels.
The world should not be beholden to dog owners who can't take responsibility for their animals or train them properly if they insist on them being off the lead in public places.
I think what we can deduce from all of this is that something happened and some people were rude.
Sobering stuff indeed.
Dog owners are disgusting.
The amount of ppl condoning the crashers response is a disgrace. I don't care if you'll knock a few seconds off your segment time people need to be aware of other users. It's this kind of sh*tty behaviour that gets us a bad rep and banned from certain areas. The folks agreeing with the crasher need to grow up.
Friend isn’t anti-MTB or having a go at all bikers, they were just taken aback by the response they got.
Trouble is (and I know I'm making a somewhat sweeping generalisation here), but dog ownership has got more and more popular, sometimes without (IMO) the new owners feeling it necessary 1. to learn that other people use open spaces, or 2. sometimes feeling that normal standards of dog training or discipline don't apply to them because either they can't be arsed or they have the magical power of the "Extendable Lead" (insert your own voice over here)
I know that I've felt somewhat exasperated sometimes if I'm going through a popular area, when after the 'n'th time I've had to make a judgement call on whether to stop or otherwise get out the way of some untrained cocker-corgi or Yorki-spaniel making a death dive at my wheels or ankles, often accompanied by cries of "Spoodles COME HERE" repeated an an ever increasing volume and pitch by some-one entirely confused about why after missing all that puppy training; the idiot canine won't come to heel like a finalist of One Man and His/Her Dog.
It shouldn't come as a surprise to any one that after a few encounters like that, the owner of any dog that finally, perhaps inevitably causes a crash is going to get a mouthful.
Munrobiker and nickc spot on.
Trouble is (and I know I’m making a somewhat sweeping generalisation here), but dog ownership has got more and more popular, sometimes without (IMO) the new owners feeling it necessary 1. to learn that other people use open spaces, or 2. sometimes feeling that normal standards of dog training or discipline don’t apply to them because either they can’t be arsed
To be fair, I reckon you could probably just replace “dog” with “bike” and post that verbatim on a walking forum without much dissent.
The world should not be beholden to dog owners who can’t take responsibility for their animals or train them properly if they insist on them being off the lead in public places.
This
Its saddening to read all the anti dog / dog owner sentiment.
Its as if some riders think they have a god given priority over everyone else to hoon around the countryside.
they sound like entitled ****ts to me
To be fair, I reckon you could probably just replace “dog” with “bike” and post that verbatim on a walking forum without much dissent.
You're probably right. But my bike neither shites, bites nor veers uncontrollably in front of folk. 😊
Ullswater area, i’m not going to be too specific to avoid the should/shouldn’t be riding there anyway argument.
Maybe that is a pretty big part of this particular argument.
This does seem to be getting glossed over. If it was a footpath, the bikers are so far in the wrong it's not funny.
Those trail dogs are disgusting too.
Pooping everywhere. It's just gross. Keep them elsewhere. Locked up in your garage or something.
Some of the anti dog ranting sounds a bit too much like anti bike ranting from car owners. From the evidence we have and my life experiences I reckon there's more chance it was the bikers being dicks.
I have a dog. She's stupid because she has a brain the size of a strawberry. I also have a bike. I am not stupid. When I am riding the bike on shared paths, I always expect any dog to immediately hurl itself into my path, exactly like my dog would do, given the opportunity. Therefore, I always give a cheery shout and make sure the dog walker can see I've stopped pedalling and am slowing down, the dog walker should now be fairly certain I am aware of them and their beloved pooch/wolf pack. I generally then slow to a pace where I can stop dead in anticipation of the dog chucking itself under my Magic Mary unless said canine is on a lead and out of range.
When I am walking my dog of little brain, I am aware of approaching cyclists and I will hold my dog's collar until cyclist has passed safely.
All that being said, most cyclists don't seem to slow down, or acknowledge my restraining the dog. However the last time I cycled up the national cycle route near me, a gentleman with a pack of huskies made a massive deal of putting all five of them on their leads, while I waited patiently. He then yelled at me as I pedalled off "Can't you people find somewhere else to ride your bloody bikes?"
Dog walkers, cyists, drivers, doesn't matter. You can't have an argument with an idiot. There will always be a **** who is right, regardless.
A person who is going faster and/or has more mass should be responsible for not crashing into those going slower and/or have lower mass.
Dog walkers annoy me sometimes, but generally they're polite if I'm polite to them.
A person who is going faster and/or has more mass should be responsible for not crashing into those going slower and/or have lower mass.
This entirely - they are the vulnerable trail user, just as we are the vulnerable trail user on an offroad byway with 4x4 traffic, or tarmac roads.
Slowing down, stopping if necessary, being nice and saying hi costs you nothing.
Walkers without dogs are just as capable of moving unpredictably. I'm much more confident passing a sheep than a human.
You can’t have an argument with an idiot.
Are you new to the internet? 😀
The amount of ppl condoning the crashers response is a disgrace. I don’t care if you’ll knock a few seconds off your segment time people need to be aware of other users. It’s this kind of sh*tty behaviour that gets us a bad rep and banned from certain areas. The folks agreeing with the crasher need to grow up.
Just for clarity, when you refer to the crasher are you referring to the dog or the cyclist?
Follow up question: why?
Dog owners are disgusting.
Many Certain Types say that very thing about cyclists.
I’m a dog-owning cyclist. (Self-loathing intensifies, no not really)
*Edit, Pleased to see I wasn’t by any stretch the first to note
I reckon you could probably just replace “dog” with “bike”
I'm not on the end of a retractable lead, don't shit wherever I feel like, and generally come when I'm called (I'm good like that) 🙂
Slowing down, stopping if necessary, being nice and saying hi costs you nothing.
Well I don't know, could cost you a PR or God forbid, a KOM!.. 😲
When having it down any trail anywhere that is not a dedicated mountain bike trail the rider should be aware of other trail users and act appropriately.
If I'm clipping down a Lakes descent and see walkers I take care, if they have a dog I pretty much expect if to change direction at any point.
The rider and their friends were in the wrong for reacting aggressively.
Your friend might well have been able to do more to avoid the incident, that is unclear.
I am constantly saddened by some cyclists attitudes and behaviours and heartened by others.
The same can be said for car drivers, walkers and anyone else I come across while riding.
Try not to become that what you fight against.
Unfortunately the more people that swing a leg over a bike the greater the number of people that act poorly and give the whole a bad rep.
Be ambassadors not arseholes.
Not being judgemental here but I always slow down for walkers, dogs, horses etc.
Safer for me and them. Also makes riding the natural trails I ride a less contentious, relaxing experience. Which is what I am after.
Rule 1 stuff I suppose.
Not sure I understand the negative stuff about dogs. Don't have one but anything negative they do is down to some bad owners not the dogs.
ADS678 He was on a motorbike not a bike when you ride off road on a motorbike it is called greenlining that is why I got soaked he was doing at least 30mph cheers.
Well I don’t know, could cost you a PR or God forbid, a KOM!.. 😲
Or you could be riding to work and get a little bored with slowing to allow people to call their dogs.....
“Fido, come here.”
....stopping to allow people to collect their dogs.
“FIDO. Stop barking at the man!”
I have more conversations with dog walkers than any other outdoor group because they are constantly the inconsiderate group. I’m normally polite. They are normally polite. But I’d rather not keep stopping.
(Only one dog, a Jack Russell, tried to throw itself under my wheels in an hour long ride this morning.)
I’m not on the end of a retractable lead, don’t shit wherever I feel like, and generally come when I’m called (I’m good like that)
Those photos on the Grindr FB group would indicate otherwise.
There's a new breed of dog owner who have relinquished all use of leads and decided training their mutt is just too difficult. They do a runner when their dog bites someone (why have so many people heard the phrase he's never done that before), let their dogs shit everywhere, jump up on people and get aggressive. Before dogs became a family fashion accessory, they were owned, in the main, by people who really wanted to own dogs (nuisance owners and dangerous dogs were dealt with) and it was generally, but not always, accepted as a privilege to even be allowed in certain public places. If a child behaved like most peoples animals do, in public, not only would it not be socially acceptable, legal/social services intervention would be swift to say the least. The school have been on again, William shat in the playground and bit Harry on the face again!
These saintly owners with perfectly behaved dogs are fewer and further between than those on bikes who cause injury, including the minority who aren't as courteous.
It's as though we have to accommodate peoples's pets every whim and the rest of us are in the wrong. Moving around minding your own business is not correct in the presence of some peoples pets. Just taking my bike out of a van in a car park was enough for someones dog to go ballistic. I guess I did it all wrong, probably moved too fast or some such bollocks.
Mr Fluffy Woo****s can do whatever he likes **** you all.
This entirely – they are the vulnerable trail user, just as we are the vulnerable trail user on an offroad byway with 4×4 traffic, or tarmac roads.
I agree, but there are things you can do as the vulnerable person to help others negotiate around you and decrease the likelihood of an accident happening - e.g. wearing high-vis and riding a sensible and predictable line whilst road cycling.
I've been both a dog walker (sadly no more) and cyclist on the railway paths and trails around here. As a dog walker, cycling past at speed without any warning was the greatest problem. As a cyclist the lack of control is the greatest problem. To be honest, in almost every case where I come across a dog on a ride (i.e. every week) a give a signal I'm coming (usually a bell) and the dog is recalled and we exchange pleasantries. But every so often there's a dog with zero recall, or worse a dog that likes to chase and nip. Our dog was like that. It was always on a lead on shared paths and only off the lead in fields etc that had footpaths only, no farm animals. She lived a happy life to 16 without harming herself or anyone else.
Re slowing down and being considerate, I always slow to walking pace for walkers, dogs and horses, it hasn’t stopped me from being bitten (dogs only to be fair) and it’s still my fault when I’ve slowed, informed people that I’m there and moved as far away as the path permits and the unleashed dog dives under the bike.
Also I’ve never been told by a nice lady who washes football kit that she won’t do it again as there’s too much rambler or horseshit on it.
Fair play some of you are pretty vile and miserable. If this incident took place on a designated cycling trail then fair play riders would be in the right. If it wasn’t an official trail/was a shared usage trail then surely some common sense of slowing down for other users is the right thing to do? Granted a crash can happen at slow speeds, at that point reasonable behaviour and talking should happen. If a sheep ran out causing the crash are any of you going to go shout at a farmer?
I’ve had children and dogs run out in front of me on official trails and cheeky trails. No need to get angry, move on with your life. Shit happens, maybe we just need to adopt the don’t be a dick policy?
If a sheep ran out causing the crash are any of you going to go shout at a farmer?
Do you really want to know the answer to that question?
No not really! Stupid analogy to be fair!
This thread is bizarrely polarised. I ride almost exclusively bridleways and other RoWs. Some have lots of dog walkers others are empty.
By making myself known - with a bell and or saying hello + my experience is almost all owners call their dogs and hold them and I slow down and say thanks. Occasionally the dog is more interested in something else and I slow down enough to avoid risk of a collision, occasionally I stop - and generally avoid getting between dog and owner if possible.
In 30 years of mountain biking I've never hit a dog or fallen off as a result of a dog encounter. I can only remember being chased a two or three times.
So by taking it easy I have very little conflict with dogs or anyone else, and I rarely experience inconsiderate behaviour from dog owners.
TBH I get cars,motorbikes,mopeds,horses,runners,dogs,deers and squirrels jump out and surprise me on the commute regularly.
It's the outside word lots of things can happen there.
I’m a commuter cyclist, a mountain biker and a dog owner (small white fluffy thing that is barely a dog and is far too soft to consider biting anything or anyone).
I can usually see both sides as a result - and in this case there is a lack of facts.
It sounds like the bikers were riding somewhere they shouldn’t have been and possibly were going a bit fast in view of there being walkers and a dog off the lead in clear view ahead of them. But that’s making some assumptions. In that case they have to take some responsibility here for the accident and are lucky they didn’t come across more aggressive walkers who could have got laity for them hitting their dog.
On the general arguments raised, if dogs are well behaved then I have no issue with them being off the lead on footpaths or open spaces. If you’re on a shared used bridleway then you have to make a judgement on who else is using it at the time - I have a path near me that is used by walkers and some commuter cyclists - at peak times in the morning and evening I’d never let the dog off the lead on it as dogs are just too unpredictable.
Obviously on dedicated mountain bike trails that are clearly marked as such people shouldn’t be walking on them or have dogs wandering on them.
In the aggression in general shown in society now, it’s a sad inditement on the human race. I find this especially bad when out in the car and some shocking manoeuvres and reactions and hand signals of the offensive type.
