[Closed] Can't we all just be a bit more civil?

If you're keen on civility, you're not likely to find much of it on here in response to a story involving dog owners, cyclists, footpaths and etiquette 🙂

Just to clarify, her dog caused a cyclist to crash?
What kind of response did she expect?

It works both ways - When I'm biking I'm disgusted at the way many dog walkers speak to me and find a lot of them to be very unpleasant people and very anti-MTB's in general

In other circumstances I'd agree but people who have just crashed/seen their mate crash are not going to be in a brilliant frame of mind and should be cut a vast amount of slack.

🤔

Person a has accident which they see as the direct result of the action or inaction of person b.
Person a and group react with hostility to person b.

That's pretty much exactly what I'd expect if
Person a was driving a car
Person a was walking
Etc etc

I think expecting person a to act with good grace is a bit naive.

That said I would have been more civil. I was also twice voted most likely to go "full falling down"

Watch out for dogs. Especially on paths that are walked by people. And their dogs.

That's my (not very catchy) motto.

Civility can get ****ed though 😆

If you're going to come and ride in the Lakes then please do act with some more grace as the local riders are the ones to get the most flack for your anti walker behaviour.

If there is a group of walkers take care when passing them, they may well have dogs or kids who are known to just go whichever way they please. If said group had given some more warning this incident may not have happened at all.

Not saying these sorts of things won't happen but that kind of response to someone who was expressing concern is out of order.

It's very difficult to collide with a walker or a dog or a horse if you slow down to an appropriate pace when passing them.

Simple good manners.

However people make mistakes, and that's time for more simple good manners...

If there is a group of walkers take care when passing them, they may well have dogs or kids who are known to just go whichever way they please.

Also, if you're on a busy path where there may be cyclists then keep your dog close by and under control. It's not difficult, if they're likely to run out of control then put them on a lead. And before you say "it could have been a child" it wasn't, so that debate is out for this conversation.

I understand you point, but you can't expect someone who has just been knocked off to be perfectly calm and reasonable. Particularly if the person expressing concern has just caused the crash, that is why they may have got a sharp tongue.

Yesterday a dog bit my mother aged 89 and tore the skin off the back of her hand. Today she is in pain, feeling ropey from the tetanus jab and has got diarrhoea from the antibiotics. "Oh he's only being friendly" said her neighbour who owns the vicious little fleabag.

Person a has accident which they see as the direct result of the action or inaction of person b. I think expecting person a to act with good grace is a bit naive.

What about "Person A rides into a dog"; how would you expect them to behave?

(Note that we have no idea what actually happened.)

OP. Just to clarify - this is an incident you have heard about 2nd hand from a friend and that you're not sure where it occurred? Could it be that there is more to the story than you do know, possibly? Given all this it is maybe not too surprising that the lecturing tone you have adopted seems to have got up people's noses somewhat. I absolutely agree that the world would be a better place if people were a bit more civil to one another.

Particularly if the person expressing concern has just caused the crash

Surely the rider caused his own crash by not acting with enough caution around walkers and/or dogs.

The only time I get annoyed with dogs getting in the way is when I'm virtually trackstanding waiting for the dopey owner to get them under control. By which I mean, if you come across a walker with a dog and you choose not to slow down enough to account for unpredictable nature of said bastard hound, then any subsequent crash is your fault.

If you've compounded the problem by not warning owner of said dog before you (try to) sail past, then you've definitely got everything you deserve.

Riders don't have priority, walkers and their mutts do. That's the price of being on a shared trail.

I agree that people should be more civil. We are all trying to enjoy ourselves out there (with a few exceptions).

If said group had given some more warning this incident may not have happened at all.

Who should have provided the "warning", the group of cyclists rattling down a trail or the far quieter walker with dog?

If you’re going to come and ride in the Lakes then please do act with some more grace as the local riders are the ones to get the most flack for your anti walker behaviour.

It's not antiwalker to expect walkers to act responsibly any more than its anti biker to expect cyclists to do the same.

It's very odd on the other hand to cause an accident and expect thanks for it. People in general aren't wired like that.

(as epicyclo though, it's unusual for dog/child/horse related accidents to be unavoidable if riding sensibly but it's rare for a dog owner to say its because of their dog when it's remotely possible it's not too)

What about “Person A rides into a dog”; how would you expect them to behave?

Expect or like? Apologeticly certainly, but that said I'd definitely not expect the dog owner to say their dog caused it in that instance.

Who should have provided the “warning”, the group of cyclists rattling down a trail or the far quieter walker with dog?

I must have misread this, you're not actually advocating that dog walkers carry a constantly activated klaxon to warn any poor cyclists in the surrounding area of their presence?

I must have misread this, you’re not actually advocating that dog walkers carry a constantly activated klaxon to warn any poor cyclists in the surrounding area of their presence?

No, dress them as Morris dancers, if only so we can shout "where's your bell" or variations on a theme to those who have the temerity to try things like talking.

Yep Martin, you must have misread it quite spectacularly.
I would suggest that maybe both parties might make an effort to alert the other to their presence, do you think this is wildly unreasonable in some way?

@dangeourbrain, how would you tell walkers and mountain bikers apart then? 😀

What should the dog walker be doing to alert a group of mountain bikers she can't see or hear yet?

Riders don’t have priority, walkers [s] and their mutts [/s] do

That much certainly is true.

I don't think you'll find anything establishing the right of way of dogs though but their owners do have to keep those mutts under close control.

Generally by the time the situation in the OP has arisen is because at least one party wasn't acting with civility and respect in the first instance.
If only everyone was nice to each other all the time.

Edit:

Yep Martin, you must have misread it quite spectacularly.

I'm with Martin on this, it certainly reads like you think it's the walker's job. I think maybe you miswrote it quite spectacularly.

get a bell even for an offroad bike and approach others with caution. Dog walkers are often in their own worlds and older walkers just ignore everything including bells.

and one of them ended up having a crash due to the dog.

Perhaps you should council your friend that she could be more civil minded by better keeping her dog under control?

The real problem is people they don't always act the way you do had one the other day on a Byway in Wiltshire very puddley I went as far away as I could on a MTB he did not slow down which I thought he would do and got soaked one side of me hair helmet the lot so started putting my hands up so least the second guy slowed down yet when I greenlane I slow down for anybody just the way it goes but for that few minutes I was mad.

Yup agreed this is 2nd hand knowledge, though I do know the area it occurred in i'm just staying away from the footpath/bridleway debate. I'm just asking that people need to be more civil and well mannered when out and about, be they walker, biker or horse rider.

It's daft incidents like this that create tension between the two groups when everyone is just trying to enjoy the area.

@dangeourbrain & @martinhutch, sorry i'll try and clarify a bit.

The cyclists should have a bell/make other aware.
Personally, if i'm walking my dog i make my presence known and call the dog to heel when i hear a cyclist coming so they know i am there, which was the point i was trying to make.

I would suggest that maybe both parties might make an effort to alert the other to their presence, do you think this is wildly unreasonable in some way?

Has this ever been part of the country code?! We should all go round with ****ing cowbells on or something. **** being civil when there's doughnuts like this around!

Here it [url= https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/701188/countryside-code.pdf ]is[/url]

DezB too? Well i must be wrong then. Burn the cyclist, its obviously their fault. Ban the lot of them. As you were.

if the dog was under control on a short lead then the cyclist could have an issue but aggressive behavior still isn't right. if the dog was off the lead or on one of those extendable leads which give the owner no control then yes the cyclist would have cause to be upset, but again aggressive behavior even as a result of the shock of the event is inexcusable.

there is a lack of facts though such as the speed of the cyclist, the control status of the dog etc but one fact is that aggressive behavior doesn't have a place in the incident

From all the above it would appear that no, we cannot be a bit more civil.

Whereabouts was it Bungy ?

dobiejessmo Member

The real problem is people they don’t always act the way you do had one the other day on a Byway in Wiltshire very puddley I went as far away as I could on a MTB he did not slow down which I thought he would do and got soaked one side of me hair helmet the lot so started putting my hands up so least the second guy slowed down yet when I greenlane I slow down for anybody just the way it goes but for that few minutes I was mad.

I don't usually go in for pendantism on this sort of thing, but christ on a bike man, at least have a go at punctuation!!

Personally, if i’m walking my dog i make my presence known and call the dog to heel when i hear a cyclist coming so they know i am there, which was the point i was trying to make.

It's my experience that by the time most walkers recognise the sound of a my bike being badly-piloted towards them, I've already called out to them.

I normally use the universally recognised 'STRAVAAAAA!' call. That way they know I am in with a chance of a PR, so can scatter out of the way with their pets, children and picnic items before I plough through them.

From all the above it would appear that no, we cannot be a bit more civil.

This.

From all the above it would appear that no, we cannot be a bit more civil.

Then i'll stand my main point of don't come to the Lakes if you can't be civil.

Whereabouts was it Bungy?

Ullswater area, i'm not going to be too specific to avoid the should/shouldn't be riding there anyway argument.

there is a lack of facts though such as the speed of the cyclist, the control status of the dog etc

You got me there, dog sounded like it was off leash but could have been under control with a little more warning. No idea how fast riders were going, they may well have slowed down (slow to us is still fast to some walkers) or being going slow anyway.

Edit: Friend isn't anti-MTB or having a go at all bikers, they were just taken aback by the response they got.

This.

At least I admit it 😆

But I am the very picture of civility aboard a all terrain bicycle, I must say.

going slow anyway.

Good, the crash won't have caused much damage then.

This is bizare. If you're cycling on a busy (or not busy) path which may have dogs and walkers, ride at the appropriate speed. Its not diffucult, expect that a dog or a person may do something that could result in an accidental collision, if you're riding taking the appropriate care then there should be no harm.
I'm a mountain biker and a dog owner. My dog will roam free in the fields and bridleways near me. He's a tame dog, very well behaved. But at the end of the day, he is a dog and is not aware of the speed of mountain bikers.
If I come across a group of dog walkers while I'm out on my bike, its surely my responsibility to slow down and ensure the safety of all concerned. If I see a squirrel or any other type of animal while I'm out riding I'll slow down so as to ensure I don't hit the animal. (Do other riders just run them over "cause they shouldn't be on my trail"?
If I see people walking on my local mtb trail, I'll stop and nicely advise them that they may be better walking an other area of the woods as fast mountain bikes may spook the dog.
If I was to see a deer (or any other animal) on the road while I'm driving, I'd slow down so as to avoid it. It shouldn't be there, but its my responsibility to avoid it. (Yes I would check my mirror and ensure it is safe for me to slow down first before someone says it)

"It’s very difficult to collide with a walker or a dog or a horse if you slow down to an appropriate pace when passing them."

The difference between wheeled vehicles and quadrupeds or bipeds is that the latter can, and do, lurch sideways. So no matter what pace the vehicle is doing a collision is always possible.

"Good, the crash won’t have caused much damage then."

Perfectly possible to break a collarbone by falling from a stationary bike. I imagine there are plenty of "fell off whilst going slowly" injuries on here.

Dogs do seem to be a must have accessory these days, the ability to control them is a tad less ubiquitous.

Interesting side note - biking in hills around Thousand Oaks (L.A) a couple weeks back and the trail head had a box of bike bells (just like the one's Singletrck sale), free to take and use (sign encouraged this) provided by the local trail groups. Once we started riding the tight twisty shared trails became obvious why.

Perfectly possible to break a collarbone by falling from a stationary bike

I was thinking of the bike.