from the OP
g. Friend went over to check rider was ok and was met by aggressive behaviour and foul language from one or more of the riders in the grou
If on a ride I'd found myself getting sweary towards a woman, or a bloke for that matter regardless of how in the right or wrong or provoked I was, I'd have to feel I'd acted like a ****. Or is this okay as long as you feel sufficiently righteous?
But anyway we've still not been told, were these ebikes or not? <smiley, obviously>
) ?
In 30 years of mountain biking I’ve never hit a dog or fallen off as a result of a dog encounter. I can only remember being chased a two or three times.
A couple of months ago, going through a narrow bridleway between two houses, a sheep dog came barrelling out from a garden to my left barking madly, it lept the low stone wall of the garden, and barrelled straight under me and the bike, causing me to hit the ground pretty sharpish. it backed off a bit, but as it tried to come over again, was grabbed by the collar by a woman (hugly apologetic and clearly embarrassed/frustrated by the dog) her husband who came out of the garden behind her initially tried to blame me for going too fast, he was quickly shot down by the wife who quite angrily shouted him down, pointing out before I could that I was going at walking pace. All I could manage was "please keep your dog under control" I admit that I said it through clenched teeth, but I wasn't outwardly angry and didn't use foul language, her reply was illuminating "Please don't go to the police"
They clearly knew about the dogs behaviour, and had in likelihood had had to do this pantomime before. I replied that I wasn't interested in calling the cops but just repeated that they needed to keep the dog under better control, to which she agreed. I've never encountered the dog again. Speaking with a mate about the incident weeks later, he knew immediately where and what dog I was talking about, and said he'd narrowly avoided the same.
That's just one, I've in total been offed by uncontrolled dogs on two other occasions, neither which was anything to do with me, other than the fact I was there! I don't tell this to illustrate to you about how terrible the dog was or how badly I was injured (I wasn't really, my glasses fell off and were lost in the brush is all) but to to highlight that while clearly everyone's experience is important and is "their lived experience", it doesn't take much to understand that your actions (your belief that by slowing down) may not have any bearing whatsoever on what the dog actually does ?
Like all these threads, they are polarized as like me some folk have had unfortunate encounters with dogs, and can't understand why people can't learn to control their pets better, and other folk, who never have, and can't understand what all the fuss is about. I don't hate dogs or dislike tham, I don't mind if they jump up in friendly manner, and I often stop to pet them and gas with their owners, I often encounter a chap who walks with 4-5 standard poodles all off the lead, and they are amazingly well behaved, and as we now sort of know each other, we stop have a chat and admire the view/dogs/weather, and go on our way.
Mleh, Long story short; some dogs seem to be no more than shit bags, most aren't. I wish I met more of the latter, and fewer of the first group.
This thread is pretty unbelievable, I ride in the lakes about 3 times a week and seldom have any trouble. Replace dog with sheep, fox, deer or any other dumb animal and the answer's the same. If you hit an animal on the trail you were probably riding too fast and only have yourself to blame. Rageing at someone might vent off a bit of steam but people need to mtfu and take it on the chin.
Replace dog with sheep, fox, deer or any other dumb animal and the answer’s the same.
No it's not. They don't behave in the same way at all. And the main reason for that is the dumb animal in charge of the dog. It brings another factor completely into the process.
Sheep, foxes, deer will generally keep away from humans and react in a certain way. Whereas the dog on the path is acting partly on its own accord, partly in response to what the cyclist does and partly based on what his owner does/says. This makes them much more unpredictable and dangerous than the wild animals you just mentioned.
Replace dog with sheep, fox, deer or any other dumb animal and the answer’s the same.
That's insane. For a start, they don't tend to be hanging around in public places. Basically all dogs are in places where other people will end up interacting with them. If someone goes for a dog walk they don't tend to walk them tentatively through undergrowth, or in the middle of a field or secretively through dense woodland. They walk them on a path.
The dog isn't scared of people in the same way all those animals are. Dogs will run towards you, or across your path, not flee from you. They've also go, unlike everything that's big enough to do damage to humans in the UK other than foxes and badgers, bit sharp pointy teeth and the very occassional desire to bite people.
I used to love dogs, but that was as someone who got to fuss over one every now and then. But the lack of control a lot of people have over their dogs, not to mention the turds, is actually pretty antisocial. It's not a dog problem, it's an owner problem, but it becomes everyone's problem.
And while I appreciate that some people will view cycling in the same way, on a path a cyclist will act in a predictable way. While walkers may object to the speed, the noise or whatever, they know that the bike will avoid them if it has to and keep heading down the path. No one can know how a dog off the lead will behave, not even the owner. And that's why it's a problem.
In 30 years of mountain biking I’ve never hit a dog or fallen off as a result of a dog encounter. I can only remember being chased a two or three times.
Your me 😂. But in a thread full of sad attitudes this affected me the most.
What is even more annoying is when my 4 year old is riding her bike or walking and she is approached/terrified by a dog twice her size.
No child should be terrified of a non aggressive dog 🙁.
I’m a dog/dog owner hater.
No need to wonder why !!
"No child should be terrified of a non aggressive dog"
Really?? You expect a 4 year old not to be scared when a huge muscular unpredictable beast approaches her? I'm nervous when an unknown dog approaches me (last occasion was a great big bulldog jumping up on me and leaving me annoyed and covered in muddy paw prints ).
Do you ever read the news? There are frequent cases of family pets attacking their owners or children.
At least she isn't in a buggy anymore, we had such fun when it's wheels got covered in dog dirt and it then got placed in the car boot. We won't go for walks round the local Mere (where the buggy incident happened) any more because it has been taken over by dog walkers, stinks of dog faeces and it's impossible for her to ride her bike or walk without dogs pestering her.
But in a thread full of sad attitudes
How are attitudes sad? Just because it doesn't match yours?.
I am not a dog hater, not for a minute, but the sheer amount of them allied to lazy owners is always gonna cause an escalation in issues, especially in a gluepot area like that in the OP.
Don't ride like a dick.
Get yer dug on a lead, or at the very least learn to control it.
Pick up yer dugs shite.
None of that is difficult for a person of reasonable intelligence.
Problem is, we don't really know what happened, just a few scraps of hearsay. This is not what I think happened. It’s one possible set of circumstances that could lead to what the OP described happening. It’s why I don’t think it’s impossible it could have happened
Rover just found out his favourite bitch, who ran away last month, had been cheating on him for two years with that Doberman up the street. He’s been feeling so down lately that he figured a couple of gulps of sheep turds couldn’t do any harm. His afternoon frolick doesn’t start until 15:00 after all.
He wakes up at 14:35. A couple turds turned into a 6 or 7 and he only managed a couple of hours sleep. He’s going to be late for his frolick.
After the bollocking he got for having turd breath he’s in a bad mood. Luckily no one seems to have noticed he’s been rolling in horse shit too. His run starts badly and gets worse. It’s bicycle after bicycle and he can’t do a **** thing about it. His diarrhea is kicking in with a vengeance.
He’s with his two packmates and yet another bicycle is wobbling towards him. She looks nothing like his master but when she opens her mouth that same entitled tone and irritating accent emerges.
“Excuse me, can I just squeeze past there.”
Typical, too entitled to even realise the world doesn’t give a shit about bicycles squeezing past.
“Ruff, ruff, ruff.” Rover says, turning away. There is one group of squirrels across the paddock eyeing up another. Too many things to keep an eye on these days and nowhere near enough eyes.
He feels her bike snag his leash and she pulls him around with surprising force. He looks into the eyes of the entitled raging cyclist who is launching into a tirade about not being ignored. Something snaps and he lunges for her front wheel. She’s screaming. He feels hands grabbing him from behind and sees others pulling the woman away from him.
By the time his head clears fully they are two valleys away. “…. and we don’t mention a thing about it. This never happened. What the hell is wrong with you?”.
“No child should be terrified of a non aggressive dog”
Really??
Yes really. 9.9million dogs in the UK, they're a fact of life. Children need to be taught how to safely interact with them because they aren't going away any time soon. But you do what you want, you will anyway regardless of the opinions of strangers on the internet.
I dont think the OP was tslking about a public place, they admit to being vague. I've hit a sheep and seen a deer that we've startled nearly kick someone in the head. The point is the same, see the threat and give it a wide birth. Dog and walker, sheep, deer, etc.
Hell hath no fury like a mildly inconvenienced motorist cyclist.
but the sheer amount of them allied to lazy owners is always gonna cause an escalation in issues,
No it isn't, many posters are perfectly able to interact quite safely with dogs/dog walkers with out issue or danger of escalation. If you can't your the problem not the dog.
Just to clarify, her dog caused a cyclist to crash?
What kind of response did she expect?
On a bridleway I'd expect a grovelling apology from the cyclist.
@taxi25 I guess you are a dog owner then.
So how should my child "interact" when a dog (usually which was bred for fighting) bound up to her?
How should she interact with this beast?:
If it’s a MTB trail, the dog owner is at fault, if it’s a shared use trail or simply unmarked, the MTBer is at fault.
I’ve ridden with and parted company with far too many weekend warriors for their attitude on shared use trails, particularly in national parks. It’s utterly disgusting.
I’ve also been physically assaulted by a MTBer who almost rode into my little boy and other people’s children as he tried to ride through a group of family’s doing 5mph at over 20, buzzing the back tires of folks who got in his way.
All I said to him was watch what you’re doing, mate, there are kids about and he stopped, got off his bike, grabbed me whilst on mine and tried to punch me in the face whilst shouting at me in Scottish. Turn out he was in a rush to get back to his T4 in the car park.
The temptation to use my car to push his van into the ditch behind it was enormous.
if it’s a shared use trail or simply unmarked, the MTBer is at fault.
Not automatically.
The OP could do to tell us what actually happened, but I doubt we'll get an unbiased view.
No it isn’t, many posters are perfectly able to interact quite safely with dogs/dog walkers with out issue or danger of escalation. If you can’t your the problem not the dog.
1. Good friend of mine cycling along WHW just past Balmaha, comes across woman with large mongrel, slows to a halt (he's a dog owner and wants to have a wee bit of hand to fur doggy chat), said mongrel lunges at him and takes a chunk out his knee.
2. Member of my running club out on a run, main street in town running towards a walker with his dog on an extendable, again dog lunges and takes a bite, fortunately only rips jacket this time, and not skin.
On both occasions, the dog owner passes blame by saying that the dog was 'scared of cyclists/runners'
How would these 'many posters' have done anything differently?.
I'd suggest that the dog owners in both cases either train the dog, muzzle the dog, or don't take them to busy public places?.
But apparently I'm the problem. 😉
The OP could do to tell us what actually happened
They can’t, they can at best tell us what their friend told them.
I've had quite a few bad experiences with dogs when out on my bike over the years, most of which could have been solved by the dogs owner just getting hold of it or calling it back. But that seems to be the problem. Not all, but a lot of dog owners seem to think that people in general need to learn how to behave around dogs rather than teaching their dogs how to behave around people.
There well maybe 9.9 million dogs in the UK but there are about 62 million people so dogs are still a minority and owners need to get their pooch on a training course.
I'll always slow to more or less walking pace when passing people with or without dogs or horses on multi use and narrow paths but I also expect dog owners to get their dog under control at the same time.
Just like the OP said "can't WE ALL just be a bit more civil". The onus is on everybody.
Just like the OP said “can’t WE ALL just be a bit more civil”. The onus is on everybody.
Or we might have our toys taken away.
as an alternative approach.. dont ride in large groups, popular mtb areas (lakes, peaks etc) on a weekend with numerous large groups all armoured up barreling down trails dont look good to the rest of humanity. collectively we as a group come across as load, in your face, self entitled and aggressive (simply by our numbers, speeds and armour/helmets)..
try riding solo, in a group of 2 or 3.
with a bit less body armour
in some more subtle clothing,
blend into the outdoors..
just by being in a smaller group we will come across as less intimidating, slow down, expect the unexpected and smile..
+ latch the damn gates.
if on a cheeky mission, be even slower, inconspicous, smile more, avoid weekends, avoid popular times for walkers (on their trails)
and take your rubbish home.
Any dog can be trained - no dog is stupid - its poor behavior is a mark of poor ownership.
Dog ownership increasing claims - source of that claim or just keyboard warrior.
Anyone can be an arse.
Smile & dont be and arse.
And if you fall off cos you didnt anticipate the dog behaving like a dog - thats your fail.
1/10 and -10 points for suggesting this all on footpath then claiming its orrelevant.
To OP i fully expect group in question.
Large group = fail.
on footpath = fail.
on footpath at timeframe with high chance of other users = fail.
group failed to slow / avoid walker with dog after seeing both parties ahead - fail
riders in stupid matching club / shop kit
riders wearing more armour than a stormtrooper
due to large size of group 3rd party within group has oversized gonads and shouts at dog owner cos hes da man ! = fail
in concusion,
dog was being dog
bikers fail to be civil
biker has enlarged gonads due to being part of group outnumbering dog walker and gets aggressive
maybe all in group should stick to trail centres
Just like the OP said “can’t WE ALL just be a bit more civil”. The onus is on everybody.
Personally I don’t think I can be much more civil out on the trail, no. So you can shove it up your onus 😉
😳
Wow im genuinely concerned about how self centred a lot of people are.
First off taxi. Utter utter nonsense. Of course a kid can be scared of a dog. You are clearly a damn idiot.
Nowthen. My 2penneth.
If you are out at a trail centre then you can expect the trails to be free from obstacles and hopefully dogs. However in the rest of the world be that on a bridleway canal towpath or whatever you cant. It would be nice if everyone was nice but again (as can be seen from the replies here) that doesn’t happen all of the time.
If the cyclists in the original post were riding past someone who had restrained their dog and then it broke free I would suggest that yes you could be angry. However something off the lead is a complete unknown. If you come across a dog off the lead theres a high chance that the owner will be a self entitled prick just as much as the strava warrior in the other direction. So the options are 1. Slow down and not worry about it or 2. barrel past and risk an issue. While the bikers would be clearly upset I imagine its just adrenaline from falling off. I must admit that I swear a LOT in general conversation so even if I was knocked over by the queen id be turning the air blue.
But we really don’t know what happened so its all speculation so why don’t we just be nice?
First off taxi. Utter utter nonsense. Of course a kid can be scared of a dog. You are clearly a damn idiot.
Wow !! thread escalation into personal insults 😂. Read what I wrote, children shouldn't be "terrified" of dogs. If they are it's generally because the terror has been instilled in them by adults. Dogs are all around us children need to be taught how to safely interact with them (and when not to). Thats sane and sensible, if to suggest that makes me an idiot, well yes I am 👍
Edit: nm
Yup i'll admit I only know one side of the story told to me, the riders side of this story will of course be different. I have no reason to be believe the dog was out of control it just sounds like the owner didn't have time to react before the riders were passed them.
The aggression and abusive behaviour the riders showed is actually what concerns me, most riders aren't like this but it's what people will remember and how they will see us. If you are using a shared trail then be civil and courteous, thank walkers who let you continue and be prepared to stop and wait yourself if the trail is busy.
yup
I'm from a family of dog owners, my kids have been around dogs all their lives even though we don't have one. However when she was about 18 months old and wanted to walk everywhere I was walking along a track holding my daughters hand while she wobbled along in her wellies and waterproofs. At this point a large and friendly black lab bounded over to her. My daughter was terrified, it was happily showing her it's full array of pointy teeth and could quite easily have flattened her. You can guess what the owners said. I reassured my little girl and engaged with the dog but pointed out to the owners that I would rather my kids interacted with dogs on their terms, not the dogs or owners. It took us quite a while to work through her fear of dogs, now she's older and bigger she can control my parents boisterous black lab using hand signals and a firm confident tone. I still think the bikers were probably in the wrong in this case but we could all do with being a bit more civil, courteous and considerate.
@taxi25 never mind kids, would you be terrified if you met this cuddly bundle of fluff?:
Exactly, these animals are terrifying, bred to be fighters and killers. Why any sane person would own one is beyond me.
children shouldn’t be “terrified” of dogs. If they are it’s generally because the terror has been instilled in them by adults.
In my experience, that’s complete horseshit. Kids are just instinctively nervous of toothy animals running at them. As a parent you’re left to talk them out of that fear, not into it.
As a parent you’re left to talk them out of that fear, not into it.
As an exception to that rule, my two grew up around farms and were actively told to be wary of any dog which they didn't know or wasn't directly under the control of a grown-up. TBH, it's probably a decent rule for younger kids anywhere given the number of owners who make no effort to train or control their animals.
Not sure this relates in any way to the OP, of course. It seems only polite to give a dog owner at least five milliseconds warning so they can desperately grab for the collar as you hammer through.
In my experience, that’s complete horseshit. Kids are just instinctively nervous of toothy animals running at them.
Again in a thread about people being more civil to each other someone wades straight in with an aggressive tone and language 🙄.
Yes children can be nervous of large toothy animals running towards them, but that's different from being "terrified" in general about dogs approaching them.
My thinking that it's been instilled is by a parent of the terrified child stating "I'm a dog/dog owner hater"
And yes geomickb I'm a dog owner so feel free to hate me 👍
grab for the collar
I've never seen a dog owner do this. They'll just yell and yell it's name whilst it resolutely ignores instruction, when what they should be doing is grab the collar and drag the animal out of my goddamned garden and away from my own pets that the dog wants to eat (for example...).
I’ve never seen a dog owner do this.
Must be a Yorkshire thing! Always a bit disconcerting when the beast is straining away wanting to eat me and being only-just-held-back by some five foot weakling. The collar-grab is normally an indication that this is the only way the owner thinks they can control the thrashing monster, so extra care is taken.
My favourite is being accosted by a dog with the owner nowhere in sight, or even better, when some tiny but aggressive breed decides to have a chase so you soft pedal along keeping it interested for about half a mile while the owner puffs along in pursuit, yelling impotently.
My favourite is being accosted by a dog with the owner nowhere in sight
I vastly prefer this to the dog owner being visible complete with lead(s) but associated canine occupant nowhere in sight.
Often followed by said owner, at precisely the moment I'm least able to avoid both human and hound, in an attempt to ease our passage by one another, shouting the previously oblivious dog causing it to dart back for treats, discover none on offer so proceed then to either directly chase me as no ball has been thrown, or dither in the track like a pheasant trying to outwit a car.
Keep your smelly dogs off the trails folks.
The only thing I have taken from this debate so far is confirmation that there are a lot of F&*k Tards in the world that like to air their views on forums....
Basic manners and looking out for each other has been going downhill rapidly in recent year.
Welcome to the modern day 🙁
What I find interesting is the way stereotypes develop. Substitute 'I hate dog owners because dogs misbehave', for 'I hate cyclists becasue they jump red lights & ride on the pavement'. Why can't people accept that some members of a group behave badly without blaming all members of that group for a minority's actions?
grab for the collar
I’ve never seen a dog owner do this.
Loads of dogs on my local trails, I'll see this a few times every ride, it's what I do.
What I find interesting is the way stereotypes develop. Substitute ‘I hate dog owners because dogs misbehave’, for ‘I hate cyclists becasue they jump red lights & ride on the pavement’. Why can’t people accept that some members of a group behave badly without blaming all members of that group for a minority’s actions?
I know of loads of well behaved dogs and responsible owners, I'm always pleased to see them, I'm not for a minute lumping them in with the ever increasing amount of lazy ****s who think dogs are the latest must have fad.
That would just be silly, wouldn't it?.
The only thing I have taken from this debate so far is confirmation that there are a lot of F&*k Tards in the world that like to air their views on forums….
Social media is:
And inevitably this:
And as we know from this thread a dog can never do anything wrong in the eyes of most owners, such is their blind devotion. Contrary to statistics, laws put in place to prevent humans being injured by dogs. Real world experience both reported and unreported, which demonstrates people being bitten (but not seriously injured) is much more prevalent than official statistics suggest.
Of the issues that need tackling in this country injury and death caused by obnoxious/any cyclists is extremely rare compared to that of motorists and attacks by dogs for example. Yet we all know which one gets the most media focus and exaggerated could-of claims, where a lack of courtesy, sometimes on both sides results in nothing more than a bit of handbags.
