[Closed] Are mountain bikes destroying the Pentlands?

dunno

in other news, the new forest is utterly f****d at the moment - hosses 'n' cows, not bikes

Its been a very wet spell, I guess traffic of all sorts increases each year, there is no budget to resurface. some will recover over the summer unless it continues to be so wet. No doubt a significant part of the damage is bikes - Its no coincidence that trails feathered in magazine articles got trashed within a year

I will he trying to organise some more trail repair days in the new year to try to right some of the damage. Personally 'cos its been so wet I have not been up there for months

Good question!

I've not been in the Pentland since around October. It's been pretty wet recently and i'd rather not damage the trails over the winter months. Generaly I ride the hills in summer and trail centres in winter.

IMO there's only one or two routes that can take winter traffic without causing damage and, again IMO, MTBs do cause a lot of damage to the non surfaced trails.

There were some trail maintenance sessions this summer that were very successful. Hopefully these continue next year and will repair some of the churned up bits.

One of the reasons we have not been up for over a year (since the snow in 2010) is that some of the more fun bits can't handle the combined traffic of all users. We elected to not use them until it is in better shape.

Personally been up just twice i can recall on my own ironically since moving up to the area and thinking i would be out all the time. Done a few walks with Wife and it is pretty nasty in places.

There's no doubt that the increased 2 wheeled traffic is causing problems. Like many, I have a self-imposed ban. The last time I was up was when we had the snow. I do wish more folk would adopt the same approach. I reckon we should ban all bikes with tyres less than 3.7" wide.

FWIW, horses cause even more damage. I was out walking nearthe North Esk recently and the tracks round there are particularly bad.

I always thought there was a kind of informal agreement amongst bikers not to use the Pentlands in winter, I guess the summer has been so wet it hasn't helped !

Multiple users are causing problems including mtb, horses, walkers etc.

But as a body (ie. mtb-ers) I think (with the risk of being flamed) that we are to quick to exercise our right (whatever that means) to ride where, when, how we like ignoring the consequences of our selfish attitude. I was in Lakes recently and rode one of the well known mtb tours. Riding between Skelwith and Iron Keld plantation I was shocked at the mtb erosion (sadly now including my own) on this bridelway. The wet ground was torn up by tires into a mess that was far worse than boots. I learned my lesson then!

http://surlybikes.com/bikes/moonlander

You're so last year Druidh, they should ban anything with less than 4.7" 🙂

Do ERC and Edinburgh Uni and the like still take groups out just now?

I've ridden with Edinburgh Uni a fair bit, they're pretty good at sticking to the hard stuff when its clarty.

There was the small matter of someone (non EUCC) organising a Megavalanche type event off the side of Allermuir, that was late October though and I think the ground was fairly firm. Still not the best idea at that time of year, especially on such a skinny nice wee trail. 😕

hels - Member
I always thought there was a kind of informal agreement amongst bikers not to use the Pentlands in winter, I guess the summer has been so wet it hasn't helped !

Just think about how popular mtbing has become over the last 10yrs or so 💡
When I started night riding with a few mates, Ever Ready torches taped to the bars there were about 1/2doz of us. Now there can be 30 odd riders out on a Thurs night never mind those that ride on the other week days ❗

there is an area near where i am that i've ridden since moving to the area but these last couple of years, due in large part to the factors trekster lists above, the trails have become more and more degraded to the point where mostly i don't bother amy more and particularly in winter when the trail damage is just plain depressing. the solution? aye, that'll be to have a race on it.

the obvious solution would be to have a wee bit more care but that so obviously doesn't work!

Dunno about Embra but a lot of Scotland actually had a dry summer. Well, below average rainfall anyway. It's what caused the false early autumn and that innit.

Embra summer was just a bit kind of.. meh... really. So much so that I can't actually remember what it was like. Remember one beauty of a dry ride into the sunset and cleaning a climb that would only be rideable in the dry, so we must have had sun at some point...

This is an interesting one. I wonder what bridleways were like after farmers had herded their livestock to market a century ago. And one option to help protect eroded routes is to put a harder surface down, but that would inevitably lead to people complaining about their favourite route being sanitised.

Embra summer was such that it rained heavily on and off and never really warmed up, so AFAIK the Pentlands remained moist throughout. Hardly went up there over summer for that reason. Unlike the summer of love 2010, them's were the days.

Ah, how we used to roll around on those warm sunny evenings watching the sun go down.....

Many trails turn to mud in winter-have you really been riding there for 15 years and not seen this?

I've been riding there a bit longer....the trails are still there, as are the hills themselves, I'd say they're not being destroyed at all, despite red sock doom mongers saying this 2 decades ago...

As said by others, I reckon it is down to increase in all sorts of outdoor activity. My local trails are at Mugdock, and we have exactly the same scenario. Yes, there is a LOT more mtb use of the trails, but there are also more walkers and runners too. That, combined with a pretty wet period since October, has rendered much of what has been great riding for the past decade plus a quagmire which may not recover unless we get a decent dry spell next yr. 😡

a lot of Scotland actually had a dry summer

In Aberdeen it was the second wettest September on record. July & August weren't much cop neither.

Surprisingly the local trails aren't too bad atm.

Look at these irresponsible idiots
[url= http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4031/4521181201_bbbc542772_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4031/4521181201_bbbc542772_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/robgarrioch/4521181201/ ]TBC RideOut 1[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/robgarrioch/ ]robgarrioch[/url], on Flickr
🙂

Yip, they are widening the path right there, the hills will soon be flat with this awful behaviour! 😉

The problem here is that it isn't cold enough, usually this time of year the wet bits have frozen solid.

Just think about how popular mtbing has become over the last 10yrs or so

What with the recession and stuff, could we now start to see a decline in mtbers out and about in such places? I'd imagine ittud(sic) cost a few quid in petrol to get to such places for as lot of folk, and maybe people might think 'I'll save money and ride locally this weekend instead of going to X or Y as I used to'.

No?

'I'll save money and ride locally this weekend instead of going to X or Y as I used to'.

Pentlands IS local, it's right on the edge of Edinburgh. 15 mins ride from the town centre. Maybe you're right though, could be all the Edinburgh folk who would once have driven to Glentress/Innerleithen are now riding in the Pentlands...

It does get incredibly wet, muddy and chewed up in winter though.

They are about to introduce car parking charges for the Pentlands. It is hoped this will raise around £60k pa to go towards upkeep and maintenance.

Edinburgh Council recently proposed a hotel "bed tax" to raise more money for city infrastructure.

With more bike retailers opening up in Edinburgh, I wonder if it is time to introduce a local levy on bike and accessory sales?

I think it's a combination of both, more people in the sport and also the cost of going to other venues. I certainly think twice about going somewhere for a ride if i'm not sharing fuel costs.

I would support car park charging as long as the money raised actually went to the upkeep of the park and not just into the general council pot.

Pentlands IS local, it's right on the edge of Edinburgh.

I meant across the UK in general really.

I read something a few years ago can't remember where about golf club membership being an indicator of the health of the economy; in lean times, membership dwindles, and VV.

There has bin a significant increase on the number of 'leisure' cyclists in't last 20 years or so, as well as the big increase in commuters. But will those who cycle purely for leisure reasons be dissuaded by a decrease in disposable income? Take up cheaper activities instead?

Dubbel(sic) post glitch. 😳

If it were me, i'd rather buy Deore/entry level kit and still get out than give it up completely. Biking does not have to be expensive, some just choose it to be that way, me included!

Many trails turn to mud in winter-have you really been riding there for 15 years and not seen this?

I've been riding there a bit longer....the trails are still there, as are the hills themselves, I'd say they're not being destroyed at all, despite red sock doom mongers saying this 2 decades ago...

A lot of the trails are in a worse condition now than at any time I can remember in the last ten years. Phantoms, the woods at Clubbiedean, Black Hill, Pistachio Way and the Nail Trail. The flash floods we had during the summer were quite bad, just look at the hardcore that was washed down the hill towards Puke Hill.

I've not been out in the Pentlands since October. Weather has been too pish - stuck to the road instead.

it's a disaster that this pristine wilderness is being destroyed. the tyre tracks will soon be right down to the earth's core and small children will probably fall in.

i predict mass species extinctions unless the correct primacy of values prevails.

Elfinsafety - Member
Just think about how popular mtbing has become over the last 10yrs or so
What with the recession and stuff, could we now start to see a decline in mtbers out and about in such places? I'd imagine ittud(sic) cost a few quid in petrol to get to such places for as lot of folk, and maybe people might think 'I'll save money and ride locally this weekend instead of going to X or Y as I used to'.

No?

could be all the Edinburgh folk who would once have driven to Glentress/Innerleithen are now riding in the Pentlands...

My tuppenceworth on many of the points above.

Trail maintenance. I'd be up for some of this next year. Pretty sure I could round up some others too.

Parking charges. I'd be happy to see this if it all goes to trail maintenance.

Riding locally. The Pentlands are local to me. They are a few hundred yards from my front door and one of the main reasons we bought the house that we did.

I know trails turn to mud in winter. However this year it's different. It's the sheer scale of things. Even so-called "hard" paths are now being churned up. We've had plenty wet periods before that haven't caused this much damage.

Much as I want to see as many folk cycling as possible, there is a selfish bit of me that sort of hopes they will stick to the roads and leave the trails for me.

And finally, I'm just in from a nice ride on the road bike, and as expected, the Christmas excesses have taken their toll. Sooooooo slow!!

Some of those trails mentioned above didn't, or hardly, existed 15 years ago. We've widened what we ride, which should have helped spread the load, but numbers are up.

Also, 2-3 years ago, no one was using Ice tyres. Now, they are commonplace. Great when it's actually icy, but in mixed conditions, we are riding muddy tracks when they would otherwise be recovering(albeit slowly).

Recession ?

According to the Scottish news this morning, there is still huge demand for buying Estates. Not the long car ones, the huntin' shootin' ones, what ?

Global warming

Ice tyres common place? Really? Not amongst the people I know.

Last time I was up, I saw 10 cyclists and at least 9 had ice spikes on.

[img] [/img]

[b]WOULD THE MODS PLEASE FIX THIS GLITCH!!!!![/b]

perhaps the good people of Edinburgh could ride hills untouched by mountain bikers. the cairngorm plateau perhaps?

😆

stevenmenmuir - Member
> http://surlybikes.com/bikes/moonlander

You're so last year Druidh, they should ban anything with less than 4.7"

Do ERC and Edinburgh Uni and the like still take groups out just now?

It`s gonna be lonely up there... 🙂

Just in from a quick ride and even some of the trails I'd expected to be in good form are soggy as anything- though, not because of riders I think. Chocolate Chute looks like it's had a lot of footfall but barely any tyre marks, frinstance. I was pretty shocked by that one, especially at the top and bottom it's gone very wide. I didn't think many people used it.

Didn't go near any of the delicate trails, though.

Its definitely mountain bikes. I've got one and it goes out at 5am when i'm asleep, i've noticed its sometimes muddy in the mornings. I followed it one day and it was meeting up with some other mountain bikes and going round skidding everywhere. Last week it stabbed someone in foot locker, and the week before that it got on the train without a ticket. Bikes should be locked up!

I was walking up there a few days ago - Nail Trail is in appalling condition and has been for the past few months. Increased use in all conditions has churned up the surface completely, making it unrideable in places.

I personally do not ride the Pentlands anymore unless they are frozen or bone dry, and I think some restraint needs to be shown by riders as a whole for a while to allow their recovery.

All very well saying its muddy and the trails will get damaged so we wont ride, but how are people, especially non locals meant to know what the conditions are like before they get there? Its not just as easy as saying we should all show constraint... Maybe a website detailing how wet things are and advising?

whatnobeer - you're right maybe those of us who have had many winters of it have just learnt with experience. How about we have a thread on STW in which we could share our knowledge?

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/pentland-hills-thread

It`s a shame that mountain biking has become so popular along with other outdoor pursuits .There are numerous companies making money from organized outdoor adventures maybe there should be a levy on these? which could be spent on maintaining paths

Edric 64 - Member
It`s a shame that mountain biking has become so popular along with other outdoor pursuits .There are numerous companies making money from organized outdoor adventures maybe there should be a levy on these? which could be spent on maintaining paths

Having only ridden the Pentlands for the last 7 or so years since moving up to Currie I have noticed the deterioration of the more fragile parts of the 4 Res Loop - but in some areas it's mainly due to the volume of water that has fallen in short a short time which has caused torrents of water to run down the trails - The bottom end of the Nail Trail for instance got so flooded in the summer deluge THIS:

happened. This was the same weather which caused landslides across the country. So it is expected for the trails to be worse just now - but a good dry spell and some common sense from the users would see it recover quicker. Worst part though has to be the south side of Maidens at the junction of the path from Phantoms - people heading up have no option but to walk around but people coming down dont and plough on through.

The Pentlands Website could probably have a "Current Conditions" section added and maintained easily and some cheap laminates on posts at the worst bits and at the Car Parks would help.