[Closed] Are hope brakes any good nowadays?

They are fine, but Shimano are pretty damm good. Even their SLX brakes to me felt as good as my old Saints from 10 years ago. Such is the constant trickle down effect and year on year improvement from the big brands, basic brakes are as good as top end ones from just a few years ago.

Go for somthing thats common enough you wont be left out looking for spares/replacements.

Cue the usual range of opinions...

I had e4s on my bikes, and reaaaly wanted to love them....
Now I have saints....

IMO they just lack power compared to rivals.
I’ve come to the opinion that you just can’t have too much stopping power.

Someone will come along to say mine weren’t set up right or maintained correctly soon.
I don’t think that’s the case, and if it was, I haven’t had that problem with any shimano brakes, so it’s obviously worth it to me for the much easier set up 😉

I like them. Came as standard on my bike and had no issues. I like the peace of mind of having a good back up service too with spares readily available.

Someone will come along to say mine weren’t set up right or maintained correctly soon.

I think its more a feel thing - its about the initial bite. Hopes are progressive, Shimano are immediate. so its not a lack of power - its a preference about the feel.

Had some Tech X2s, which I liked but to be honest were no better than the Magura Martas they replaced or the XT 8000s I've got now. In fact, the Martas were way more powerful, but a bit finicky to bleed and set up. The XTs are really simple and just work.

In short, I don't miss the Hopes.

Newer models might be better though.

(As an aside, still got a pair of Mono Minis on one bike, which 15 years ago did many Alps trips and were fine. I love the fact you can just replace everything on them and keep them going and going. I suspect the XTs are more disposable.)

think its more a feel thing – its about the initial bite. Hopes are progressive, Shimano are immediate. so its not a lack of power – its a preference about the feel.

This. Shimano (and the like) fans say Hope have no power. Hope fans say the others have no modulation. It personal preference.

I’m not a fan of Hope but purely based on feel, subjectively. The products themselves are fine.

Hope E4 on one bike replacing xtm 800

Just bought some hope v4 to replace Shimano xt 785 on another.

The E4 don't have a wandering bite point like my m8000. They have plenty of stopping power for me- I'm not mega fast

Hopefully the v4 will not need bled every 2 months like the 785.

Just sold e4 tech 3 which came on my HB130 and replaced with slx 4 pots.

They lacked bite. Needed a lot of tug/lever travel to initiate and gave me sore arms on long descents.

The lack of bite led to a loss of confidence that I could actually stop. Tried everything but just couldnt get on with them at all.

The slx are night and day better and were only £184 from a German site against £350rrp for the Hopes.

I wanted to like them. They look amazing and the spares availability was so appealing, plus Hope bike... but they had to go.

I've some E4's, purchased following my XT's failed.

Initial reason was serviceability. It left a bitter pill being told i couldn't repair the old XT's and to bin them.

I always manage to stop, find it easier with the Hopes to control back wheel on the very steep stuff (not locking up).

Find my fingers do get knackered more with the Hopes, maybe i have to pull harder? No idea.

They are nice to look at.

What TJ said ^

I think its more a feel thing – its about the initial bite. Hopes are progressive, Shimano are immediate. so its not a lack of power – its a preference about the feel.

This.

For example: I used to ride XT & they plenty of power but the way it was delivered is completely different to X2's. On the XT riding style was pile into the corner, brake hard at the last minute & career round. X2 is far more nuanced which meant, once I'd adapted, a smoother & dare I say it faster cornering style. I know which I prefer..

sold e4 tech 3 which came on my HB130 and replaced with slx 4 pots.

You do know Hope made the brakes a stressed frame member don't you ;->
I like the longevity and feel of hope. Still using some >12 year old X2s on the hardtail. Never feels like I can't stop. Replace pads, centre calipers properly, bleed very occasionally and sent back to Hope for a service once. Have M4s on bigger bike and quite happy as above. Fancy replacing with E4s just for the bling really.

With Shimano I just don't like the feel or the stories of wandering bite points, plus they seem to blow seals periodically. So longevity should be factored into the price comparison.

Got XT Shimano's on my nomad and E4's on my soda.

XTs are instant bite whereas the E4's have a bigger range of pull (modulation) before you get that sort of bite.

However, I still agree with the XT fanbois. They're definitely more powerful. I'd have to properly yank on my E4s to approach the stopping power of the XTs and even then I wouldn't achieve it.

If it wasn't for the fact that I've never had to bleed the E4's I'd probably just chuck 'em and get the Shimanos. But they're reliable as anything.

One point in favour of the E4s I have is discussing brakes with a guide in the Alps he uses E4's because they don't fade on long descents. Other breaks apparently noticeably fade but the E4s keep their power. But YMMV.

One point in favour of the E4s I have is discussing brakes with a guide in the Alps he uses E4’s because they don’t fade on long descents

Interesting... I had a bit of fade on my RX4s (road bike) on a long descent last week. I was slowed down by traffic so was dragging them a lot more than I usually would. Other than that, they've been faultless.

I've got this theory that all mtb brakes are crap in their own way and I always feel like I'm looking for the least worst option.

Currently using E4's. I like the look, the feel, consistency, and the fact I can rebuild them from the ground up over and over rather than binning them. Could probably have more power but I only really use them for DH stuff and Alps trips and never felt in peril. I'm not a brake dragger though.

People definitely over estimate how powerful Shimano brakes are because it comes in one big lump like the shove in your turbo diesel rep mobile. I don't like all that wasted lever travel before anything happens. I'm already slowing down while you're waiting for your anchor to drop. Does the first pull still come to the bar before they pump up?

Are Magura levers still full of bendy plastic grub screws and self tappers? Do Sram still need a 40 quid bleed kit and a spare 2 hours to set up? Do the levers still go floppy when it's warm and the pistons get stuck?

Yeah I'm sticking with Hope because they're the least crap. I'll have another set for my girlfriend's bike if anyone is selling. Her Sram Guides are like trying to stop a rotor between your finger tips.

I do wonder if a part of the difference is the mix of adherent and abrasive friction. all disc brakes have both occurring but obviously give different characteristics if one brake is giving you more abrasive friction ( like sandpaper on wood) and the other adherent friction ( Like a layer of partly set glue between pad and disc) then this changes the feel, the wear characteristics and the bite?

Its not universal but the hope brakes seem to have far less of the rapid wear that some brakes can suffer from. does that mean more adherent / less abrasive friction?

Braking power is a fairly complex issue. When going slowly, stopping power is just a function of the force on the pad. If some brakes have more mechanical advantage, then they'll give more stopping power for the same force on the lever. But for all brakes the amount of power you can get from a reasonable squeeze of the lever at slow or medium speeds is way more than you need.

It starts to change when you are going down something steep and fast. AIUI pad material starts to vaporise at the interface between pad and disk where it gets hot, and this vapour layer reduces friction. So you press the lever harder, and the caliper, piston and hose start to flex. So at this point it's no longer a function of how much force is being applied to the pad, it depends on how much heat is being shifted out of the caliper and I guess how much the caliper is flexing. And going fast down steep stuff is where you really need maximum stopping power.

Then psychology comes into it. If your brakes feel sharp in normal use, you will think they are better, but they might not stop you any quicker when flying down a fast steep road. This is certainly my experience. Shimano 'feel' more powerful but when maximum braking power is called for there's not much in it.

Its not universal but the hope brakes seem to have far less of the rapid wear that some brakes can suffer from. does that mean more adherent / less abrasive friction?

If Hopes have less mechanical advantage then they'd have more pad clearance. And if they have more pad clearance they'd be less likely to keep the gritty watery membrane between pad and disc that really kills brake pads.

Interesting about the Xt 8000 wandering bite point - I haven't suffered from that. But I do agree with the on / off power, it's pretty instant.

mrlebowski's made me realise something I hadn't even thought about, but I do brake later with the XTs than I did with the Hope X2s and to be fair I reckon my cornering is "messier" and less smooth.

I'd probably go back to Hope next time just for the longevity/serviceability.

The price though... ouch.

I don’t like all that wasted lever travel before anything happens. I’m already slowing down while you’re waiting for your anchor to drop. Does the first pull still come to the bar before they pump up?

Eh what?

I have E4 calipers with Tech 3 levers.

Set them up properly and they are amazing. Progressive and as strong as any I've used.
The bleed kit makes keeping them well set up is a breeze.
After using them prefer them to the instant bite shimanos.

Centering the caliper, keeping the pistons clean and free and keeping them properly bled will mean you always have more than enough brakes and have total control over how they operate.

To be honest DOT fluid puts me off hope brakes. Mineral oil is so easy. Don't have to worry about it burning paint or damaging anything. Can't be arsed with smelly DOT!

Eh? I find that a weird reason to rule out an option. I use 5.1 in mine and it's lovely and clean and easy to clean up. It also does not cause any damage if you clean up any spills.

Why is Mineral oil easier than Dot 5.1 ?

Molgrips - thats the opposite of my experience and what seems to be the case for others. I literally get thousands of miles out of pads

Not sure where he's disagreeing tj?

Bb7s here. Just saying 😉

Over the last few years, primary for DH i've had:

Hope E4
SRAM guide
Hayes Dominion
Shimano SLX

I've had decent luck with all the above and not hated any of them.

Hayes were by far the best in every way: power, feel, modulation, consistency.

Next best for me are the Shimano SLX on my current bike which has surprised me as I tend to favour modulation over bite. Whichever you chose go for the biggest rotor you can.

Hope's for me

Got fed up with leaky Shimano calipers went through two sets of each (XTM800, ZEE, R785 road bike calipers) all shimano ever did was just send out a new caliper, never had any confidence in them as every time you braked for the first time on a ride you wondered if the caliper had developed a micro leak and contaminated the pads whilst the bike was sat in the garage and if it had then your back to square one with a crap brake and warranty claim again!

Sram brakes were better, never suffered the sticky piston in the brake lever issue but i knew one day it would happen so just went with Hopes

Ive got V4's E4's and X2's all been faultless, never any issues just work first time every time, easy to fix, plenty of spares, bleeding is easy (same as doing car brakes which Ive been doing for 25+ years)

DOT fluid is no issue, just wipe up any spills and wash off with water within 5 mins of spilling any, it wont do any damage unless left for 30 to 60 mins, much easier to get hold of and cheaper than mineral oil

Huh, Molgrips and TJ disagreeing on a thread. I've seen it all now...

Interesting… I had a bit of fade on my RX4s (road bike) on a long descent last week. I was slowed down by traffic so was dragging them a lot more than I usually would. Other than that, they’ve been faultless.

Not really a Hope brake through, is it? Just a Hope calliper, the rest of the system is Shimano/SRAM/whateverRotor.

My own preference is for Hope over Shimano; I've Hope Tech E4 on one bike and XT8000 on another. For me it's that inconsistency of Shimano that puts them in second place; they work most of the time but not as precisely as the Hope. Same rotor size on each bike and generally they're both used on similar, big mountain terrain in Scotland. Power wise is very similar when I pull hard, both work but there's simply more confidence for me in the Hope.
I also have a great dislike of 'disposable' kit; what a waste to have to throw away a whole brake system when your Shimano brakes inevitably fail. Like someone above, I have Hope Minis that are now getting close to 20 years old and still work, after having had a couple of rebuilds in that time. And Hope still have parts for them!
The brand new SLX brakes on the Mrs' bike are lovely and as they're relatively light used, they'll be fine for her.

I have Hope e4 on 1 bike and Shimano slx m7000 on another, much prefer the Hopes. 200mm floating rotors front and rear on the Hopes (180/160 on the Shimano) and while the initial bite is less powerful than the shimanos I wouldn't say they're less powerful overall, the control and feel of the lever are the difference for me personally, reliability should be another but haven't had any issues with either so far. If I was buying again and money wasn't an issue I'd pick Hope's every time

Between the wife, my riding buddy and myself we have had brakes from Shimano, SRAM, Formula and Hope - the only ones without issues have been Hope. Mind you if money was no object then Trick Stuff would be the way I would go.

Molgrips – thats the opposite of my experience and what seems to be the case for others. I literally get thousands of miles out of pads

We've done this before, are you forgetting?

It's certain specific conditions that cause pads to wear out in a few rides. You need watery gritty mud and the right amount of general wetness/rain. Then the calipers hold onto water and grind your pads away to nothing. If I don't ride in those conditions pads last a really long time, but twenty miles in the Beacons or the Dark Peak can kill a set of pads.

I'm sure you'll try and tell me I'm doing wrong or don't know how to ride, but it's all about the specific conditions. I'm mostly only riding locally now and I'm getting 12-18 months from pads.

I've a new set of e4's but ive yet to commission them so sorry cant offer help there. But was looking to use them on the Ebike, which is a lot heavier.
Picked up a V2, the moto version and there is considerable difference between those and the e2, in that its fing gigantic. It's like an open version of the C2, same big pistons.
I think for the Ebike, which will probably be the cargo type, I might well be looking to use the V2.

Now I've no experience of the V2, but its a huge bloody brake and really dwarfs the X2 placed alongside. It wouldn't look out of place on a motorbike, and knowing hope brakes ill bet it works very well too.

I was watching a pair of used E4's on ebay hoping to grab a bargain. They just ended for £295 plus a tenner postage.

You can preorder them through Wynstanleys for £272 with free p&p.

Love them or hate them, they're in demand.

A mate messaged winstanley last week and they say december January For the e4s,
worth asking them again before placing an order, I got some in August and took 4 weeks

Now I’ve no experience of the V2

I have V2s on my Patriot. They are the same as Mono Minis just much bigger. They feel alright when just riding around, but when you're bombing down something fast and steep you just grab the same amount of lever and it's like hitting a moving wall, they are just brilliant. I've not had any other enduro type brakes to compare against but still. I really wish I'd upgraded to the vented rotors when I got the bike because coolness.

I’ve got E4 with 183mm discs on my hardtail and V4 with 203mm discs on my Levo, both with Tech 3 levers and organic Hope pads. Had some Race Evo E4 too but I then went back to two bikes so that left me with a spare set. Must have done 10k+ miles in often filthy conditions.

They’ve been great, especially when it’s slippery. Not short of power but it doesn’t come in suddenly when you gently touch them, hence them being so good when you’re short of grip.

Mate ordered a set of E4 in black from Swinnerton. Came in about a week. £311 all in

Hope V4 are the most disappointing brakes I've owned. I bought them thinking they would be the last set of brakes I'd need. Tried to convince myself they were everything I'd Hoped for (sorry). They just aren't that good.

They have a few problems which I couldn't get past. The main one is lack of power. This has been confirmed in controlled group tests - Enduro mag did one, ironically they used the dyno rig at the Hope factory! The power they generate is only slightly greater than 2 pot Deore.

The second issue for me is that adjusting the lever reach seems to also adjust the leverage ratio. If you run the levers close to the bar, like I do, then the brakes feel a bit squishy as if they need a bleed. Wind the reach out and they feel perfect again.

Third issue is the lever action is heavy. Combine that with low power and it's a recipe for arm pump, something I hadn't had an issue with previously.

Oh, and expensive compared to Shimano/Magura MT5/Formula Cura. Even my Hayes Dominion, which widdle all over Hope in every way, were a good chunk cheaper.

I like Hope a lot as a company but feel they are losing ground on the competition with most of their current line of products.

Can I suggest your's were not set up correctly as lack of power is not an issue with Hopes.

Running E4 with 200mm rotors and never felt the need for more power, it depends on your ride style I think, if you're a smooth rider with flow and good braking control skills there is nothing wrong with Hope, if you blast towards corners then hard brake late, Shimanos do have more power, Saints are about 10 percent more powerful in the lab, XT slightly more power, but XT 4 pots power claims over 2 pots would put them above Saints.
It's all about modulation for me, I exit corners faster than my mates and find their braking skills laughable at times, loris vergier vs peat syndicate vid was an interesting watch regarding control.

I was watching a pair of used E4’s on ebay hoping to grab a bargain. They just ended for £295 plus a tenner postage.

I would look again
£56 pair E4's
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hope-Tech-3-E4-Disc-Brakes-Front-and-Back-Black-New-Pads-And-Bled/193613451923?hash=item2d1442d293:g:xRcAAOSwyNdfKuRH

Though I reckon this is a mistake 😆
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hope-Tech-3-E4-Disc-Brakes-Front-and-Back-Black-orange-blue-with-Braided-hoses-/164358909862?hash=item26448defa6%3Ag%3AAVIAAOSwBxpfSi4r&nma=true&si=2pDYy%252BIogE1TYlyHfgrSy%252FKJeY0%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Not really a Hope brake through, is it? Just a Hope calliper, the rest of the system is Shimano/SRAM/whateverRotor.

I'd always considered calipers to be a fundamental part of the brakes but apparently not.

Can I suggest your’s were not set up correctly as lack of power is not an issue with Hopes.

Best you don’t.

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.
— ABRAHAM LINCOLN.