Had e4s, shimano xt 4 pot, sram code rsc, and magura mt5
Have sold the e4, still got the xt, codes and mt5
E4 lack power compared to the others, I'd go as far as saying they're quite poor in terms of power.
It’s certain specific conditions that cause pads to wear out in a few rides. You need watery gritty mud a
Like say....the puffer ? Tj has experiance in that.
Interesting observation of late was I didn't use a single set of pads in the last 4 or 5 puffers I've done Inc solo.
I haven't had to chance a set of pads at the actual race since I binned my Shimano xt brakes(leaky pistons)
Maybe I just know the course so well now I don't use the pussy levers or maybe there is something in tj madness. Did not think about it till you mentioned it.
In our teams of 4 (with Shimano and avid brakes ) they were using pads to the metal in 2 or 3 laps in the wet mud.
Hope X
Hope V4 are the most disappointing brakes I’ve owned. I bought them thinking they would be the last set of brakes I’d need
Exactly this. I fitted them to my last DH bike.
I had some kind of Sram brake on a Trek Session which required constant faffing just to make it function. Then a YT Tues came supplied with the same brake so I switched to Saint straight away. This is before I knew about the wandering bite point so I persevered with bleeding and tweaking for months when I should have just returned them. Every first pull came to the bar and you'd have to pump the lever to get the bite point back. Not what you want on a black run in Chatel.
So I thought I'd drop the money on the V4 and they'd be the last brake I'd ever need. As with the E4 they look nice, they feel nice, they work perfectly but they're missing a big chunk of outright stopping power compared to their rivals. It's also more obvious while going flat out on a DH bike. The Saints were bloody infuriating to use but they'd generate enough power to pull you up with reasonable pressure at the lever. The V4 modulates but it doesn't ramp up to anywhere near the Saint.
Anyway, I don't even ride bikes anymore this is all irrelevant to me. I need to sort my head out before worrying about brakes.
Shimano Brakes: 60% of the time they work all of the time
If Hopes looked like Srams, would anyone buy them?
If Hopes looked like Srams, would anyone buy them?
Probably. They are very serviceable. I personally don't get the hatred of SRAMs. My Guide RSC are good enough on my trail bike and my Code RSC are really very good on the DH bike. But lots of people hate. Perhaps I'm lucky, and perhaps I'd change my mind if I had issues and needed to service them, opening myself up to a world of pain due to fiddly design and poor replacement part availability - but isn't that the same with Shimano and most others (Trickstuff aside, probably)?
If Hopes looked like Srams, would anyone buy them?
if they worked the same then yes.
From my experience, coming from XT (the old ones, not the newer, troublesome ones) to E4...
Massive improvement in modulation/feel and in power.
Liked them so much that I bought X2s for the xc bike the month after, as the previously fine SLX now felt terrible.
Might be the case that its a less thrashed bike, on easier terrain; or could be the 2 piston design, but the X2s actually are even better.
Can I suggest your’s were not set up correctly as lack of power is not an issue with Hopes.
People say this so often about Hope brakes, which is strange since brakes don't really need much 'setting up' IME. Also you don't tend to hear it about other brands.
My conclusion from this is that either: A) Hope brakes are too complex to set up / weirdly sensitive to alignment, or B) they're just quite variable and some people get lucky and love them whilst others have troublesome brakes that never produce the right power.
Since they're often twice the price of other brakes I've never been tempted.
And therein lies the my hesitation.
The brakes look the business but cost a lot more than say XT 4 pot that I have on my full Susser.
Then you hear the stories of lack of power etc it's a wonder they sell any.
BUT...... second hand values are also strong so they must be doing something right.
Going round in circles here.
I've found that setting up affects all brakes.
It's basically proper bleeding, making sure the pots are clean , lubricated and move freely then centering the brake correctly.
For me that's not always centering the caliper, final tightening with the brake being applied will center it as well.
You can make a huge change to how brakes work and feel with some fettling.
I won't be "A fool" again and suggest Hope do not lack power, but if some feel that they do I'd love to hear what was tried to improve it.
Honestly, mine are progressive but bloody fierce when pressed on.
Pad contamination is another "hidden" reason for brakes being shite.
I went from SRAM guide to Shimano after a guide failed at speed.
I couldn't get the parts to fix the internals and couldn't find a spare lever at the time.
I went from Shimano to hope after the bite point continued to wander after trying loads of things
And at hope I've stopped 😀
Yep, not set up correct crowd arrived 😉
@brads
I spent ages, on many an occasion making sure they were aligned perfectly, that the pistons were lubed and moving freely, new rotors, new pads, bedding them in etc etc.
watched the hope video a million times, always ended up being disappointed by the lack of power.
As I say, maybe I am not great at setting them up, but in that case, the Saints I have on two bikes, the XT 4 pots on and deore 2 pots on the wifes bikes must be much easier to set up in a way that work better.
Again, maybe its perception, and not reality, but felt I had to heave on the hopes to get lots of stopping, but on the shimanos I dont need to pull anywhere near as hard, that, for me at least makes them easier to modulate with. YMMV
For what its worth, I dont consider myself an hamfisted mechanic, can service suspension, build my own wheels etc.
As to breaking style playing a part... I try to brake hard, late into corners rather than drag round... you know, how your supposed to brake... dont always succeed 😉
I've spent more time faffing with Hopes than any other brakes in an effort to get them set up "right". I came to the conclusion they simply don't work very well. YMMV but I just don't believe they're a good brake.
My E4's work fine as I said early on. One thing I have noticed recently is that now I have somewhere to hang my bike vertically by the front wheel, the brakes feel awesome. Any micro bubbles that may have been in the system have found their way to the levers and they feel much firmer and less spongy. And because they're not Shimano, every pull feels exactly the same.
My rotors are past their best. When I replace them I'm going 200 front and rear and I might try some Trickstuff pads.
Yeah, it's bugger all to do with setting up the hopes correctly, it's just that they're poor in power compared to the others.
With my hopes I bled them, cleaned the pistons, centered the calipers as per the videos from Hope, basically did everything and they never improved in power, they were shit from right out of the box, granted they didn't get any worse in the 2 years I had them, and they never faded (probably because you can't pull the lever hard enough to generate any heat without using a vice to clamp the levers ;-)) but they were simply no where near as good as the other brakes I have.
Op buy a set of hopes and let us know whether you're a hope hater or lover.
Im a recent convert to Hopes. (tech3 V4's) after a liftime on Shimano. the last 5 years or so i have been exclusively ran Saints, but when they finally gave up i fancied trying something different.
I like them, a lot. They are absolutely not as powereful as my old saints, when i wanted to to stop on them i stopped! but i also stopped when i didnt want to which is what i wanted to remedy. grabbing to much brake when things get super steep and locking up the wheels killing any momentum was a problem for me. i enjoy the modulation, i feel i have much more control over speed rather than going in either too hot or too slow, and they encourage me to commit.
i jumped on my mates new bike the other day for a little car park test and nearly went out the front door when i gave his xtr's a squeeze!
I love my e4s. I find them plenty powerful, can't imagine needing more.
I do have big man hands so maybe that's the difference? 😉
Back in the day I had some Hope Mini's, the pro version with the carbon lever. They were never great but matched the hubs / headset and looked cool ; )
Had Shimano SLX / XT worked well but definietly more 'grabby'. Never suffered from wandering bitepoint or leaky calipers.
Now have Hope X2 Race and really like them, they've been faultless and more than enough power. I like the fact I can get spares for them if they do go wrong. And they look nice in anodised black.
So if you want some shiny buy the Hopes, if you just want some brakes buy Shimano...
And therein lies the my hesitation.
The brakes look the business but cost a lot more than say XT 4 pot that I have on my full Susser.
Then you hear the stories of lack of power etc it’s a wonder they sell any.
BUT…… second hand values are also strong so they must be doing something right.
Going round in circles here.
Should we add Hope brakes to the paradox thread 😕
BUT…… second hand values are also strong so they must be doing something right
Six colours, reliable and fully serviceable. I won’t be parting with my X2s or E4s but they won’t be going on my best bike either, that has XT levers and Magura callipers. More power, I don’t have to use it but it’s there when I want it.
Edit: also the Hopes are nice and easy to bleed, I thought I was going to get an RSI tappety tapping on those XT levers when installing them
Not used Hope's since 2015 when i had a set of X2s, only real downside is cost from memory, didn't really stress them too much though, moved to SRAM, hated them, now Shimano, reality is you'll just find a brake you like, they all perform slightly differently, but you can work around that, biggest thing is looks, folk love the hope look and it sells, nothing wrong with that.
Well..... I've made the plunge and bought some tech 3 e4 for my hardtail.
Managed to get both front and rear off eBay for £288.
In nice shiny purple too 🤣
Now ...... Rotors. What's best ?
Now …… Rotors. What’s best ?
I had this theory that a rotor is a rotor. As long as you don't buy something obviously horrible. Two sheets of laser cut stainless steel are much the same as eachother. I bought the cheapest decent looking ones on ebay for about £8 each. I was fully prepared for them to be crap and was happy to replace them if I needed to. They've been on my bike 3 years now including 2 extended Alps trips where I absolutely roasted them in the bike parks.
They've lasted twice as long as the Hope ones I had when I built the bike. This is with E4 brakes and sintered pads.
The surface has gone down a little now but I'll probably replace them with similar unbranded items.
Currently on Hope 200mm/180mm f/r floating out of choice after the original ones wore out (I got just under 2 years out of them) on the HB160, and 183mm f/r floating on the BFe (cheap second hand unused). They all work well with E4 calipers.
In the past I've had Lifeline 180mm floaters. They are shite. Don't stop well and pulse like mad.
Had Lifeline 180mm non-floaters and they were really good, and only £5 each when i got them.
Had 203mm SLX non-floaters which were also really good, and £5 reach on sale at Halfords at the time.
Not all rotors are created equal.
This popped up on Hope's Facebook page today
https://www.hopetech.com/news/the-hope-tech-complete-guide-to-braking/
With regards to rotors i run Hope 203mm V4 vented rotors with my V4 calipers (they only work with V4 calipers) i have noticed a good improvement over the 200mm Sram rotors they replaced
Maybe it's a grip strength thing, do the Hope haters work in IT or other pen pusher office work and struggle to open bottles n jars, maybe Hope users are grafters with harder working mitts and don't have lady hands 😁
My Hope E4’s are more powerful than the XT and Deore they replaced and I much prefer the feel. Hope are nice things to own too imo compared to white goods Shimano/SRAM.
I'm a typist and I don't have a problem with them.
But mine are set up right...
lol you're for it now.
Initial reason was serviceability. It left a bitter pill being told i couldn’t repair the old XT’s and to bin them.
My first caliper death experience is a 2015 M785... though I'm not convinced its really dead yet.
It's going to cost me £30 for a new caliper vs £10 for some pistons seals but the caliper comes with pads so its really £20.
It's a tough call though .. as I can get some 4 pot 7120's for £50 (with new pads) but then I have to pay postage from Germany...
Maybe it’s a grip strength thing, do the Hope haters work in IT or other pen pusher office work and struggle to open bottles n jars, maybe Hope users are grafters with harder working mitts and don’t have lady hands 😁
I'll bite 😉
On the flip side, there is plenty of modulation in my Saints if you dont pull it on/off with your big bear paw..
I dont hate Hope at all, i just prefer the feel of shimano brakes. I certainly got less arm pump in the Alps on the Saints than the Hope's i've had.
“Maybe it’s a grip strength thing...”
Hope fan, bassist who likes heavy gauge strings and high action, and deadlift and farmers’ walk enthusiast! 😉
My original Hope Mini's are still good these days.
do the Hope haters work in IT or other pen pusher office work and struggle to open bottles n jars
I did have trouble opening a big jar of chip shop type pickled gherkins so you may have a point. (Except I don’t hate Hope, they just lack poke)
Another advocate for Hope here, after only ever riding bikes with shimano brakes i got some E4's for my full suss build, i still have xt m8000 on the hardtail.
I have to say that i like both but the only real difference is the feel, the XT's are very on off, whereas the hopes are a bit more on a bit, on a bit more on full type of feeling.
Im not the quickest but i have never wanted more power from either brake.
both have the ability to slow you down from top speed to a dead stop and are very capable. The hopes were a bit more of a faff with set up as originally i had a sticking piston in the front but only took 20 minutes to sort.
Also worth noting that i like the fact that the hopes are a bit more adjustable in regards to bite point and reach, yes shimanos have the reach adjust but the Hopes offer a good range of bite point control along with it.
I've got 12 year old hopes and I can do well good skids.
Got Hope E4, Shimano xt and Zee's.
In my experience they're all 3 great but when with 95kg of me forced to brake more than I'd like to, following lighter brake dragging riders on a big descent both xt and zees have let me down.
My E4s never have let me down. Power is nothing when the lever pulls to the bars and fluid squirts out.
I really really wanted to like Hope ones as they looked so good and they had that whole easy to service reputation but that’s all I ever did on them. So much time was spent fettling to try to get them to work. The amount of time I spent on non retracting pistons was so annoying. I went to SLX. They always work. I have no idea if they are easy to service as I’ve never had to!
Also dot fluid ate through the paint on my SIDs which I appreciate was my fault but I’m not going to get that with mineral oil.
The E4s on my mate’s Levo were bloody terrifying the first time I tried them! The levers came back to the bars and they felt like they had no power, they certainly weren’t slowing me down much! I fiddled with the adjusters on the levers and made them feel much better but still not as powerful as my Deore 4-pots. They look the billy bollox but they’re just not powerful enough for my liking.
Why did the levers come back to the bars ? Air ?
After numerous Alps trips I've never had a problem with Hope, the only brakes that repeatedly failed on these trips were people with Avid & Formula.
One guy needed to bleed his Maguras every day & one set of Hopes were fixed by swapping the cheap Ebay pads for genuine Hope pads.
Not seen a single Shimano or Hope failure but my go to brakes are Hope V2 for the Alps but I do have XTR on my XC bike, they appear more fragile than the Hopes but have never let me down.
These V2 are over 10 years old, have only been bled twice & can stop me easily with one finger (pictured in a cable car above Alpe d'Huez)
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Interesting thread this. Everyone* seems to have been let down by some brake or other, not always Hope, however people blame that particular brake. So what can we conclude? Brakes are generally fiddly and not particularly reliable!
* except me.. but then there was that set of old Hayes where the hose burst.. fortunately when I was testing them in the garage.
Can I use Shimano brake mounts with hope calipers. Got a couple of Shimano ones already that look like they might work.
Plus the Hope ones are double the price of others.
No. E4 callipers hit the Shimano adapters I have. If you want cheaper I believe Uberbike were getting some Hope compatible adaptors
Bite != Power. Shimano bite, hope have modulation both have power when set up properly.
