I done some sum's tonight and relised that over the last 8000 miles I've spend at least £3400 on fuel for my Astra VXR!!! On top of paying for the car every month then road tax, insurance, tyres, servicing the cost of motoring is just unbelievable.
Time for a change me thinks even a G-wiz sounds good to this petrol head right about now!
Must admit I don't spank the car these days - still wring the bikes neck though lol - couldn't buy a diesel though, just don't like the way they drive - if I did it would be something like a 3.0l a6 diesel avant which wouldn't really save anything over current motor
I shopped the RX8 in for a 1.6 diesel focus and I'm bloody chuffed with the move.
sick of them yes - change no
We have a diesel octavia that will do 45-55mpg & a Transit that will do 30-32mpg with all my bikes, a bed, BBQ, Stoves, Tools and much more.
Now on the other hand is I had an Astra I might be thinking of changing it - mainly due to it being as Astra
Not that concerned have a diesel and it's fantastic with great mpg. Been a saving grace the last few days when I've had to use it alot. £30 in on Friday done about 200+ miles in it, some at speeds that'll really get things stirring on here and still showing 85 miles range which will be more like 100+.
If I'd used my petrol it would have cost me more than twice as much easily.
I done some sum's tonight and relised that over the last 8000 miles I've spend at least £3400 on fuel for my Astra VXR!!!
I think you may have done your sums wrong! At about £1.10 a litre (average for the last year) that works out to be 11.8mpg......
Which, even for a sporty car is not even close. I'd think you'd get mid 20s fairly easily, unless you spend all your time on a track or in 1st gear! That would be about right for 18000 miles though.....
That said, we've just bought another scooter, a modern Vespa GT200. £33 tax, £76 fully comp insurance for me and Mrs PP to ride, £60 for a full service and 73mpg. As fast or faster off the line than most cars, 80mph, and no waiting in traffic. Which is handy. 😀
I have had many great cars over the years but last year we bought a 09 1.6 Diesel Focus, £35 road tax and good mpg it's ideal.
Im considering two options to improve the fuel cost of my T4 from.
One of these:
[img] 
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for £1350. Buying catering oil at c.60p a litre.
and also thinking of having the engine chipped from 88bhp to 105+
What?
no one's come up with the line "fuel is still too cheap" yet?
I'm losing my faith in this place 😉
actually if people are now seriously considering more efficient cars, alternative fuels etc then fuel is actually not "too cheap" it's price is starting to influence restriction on consumption. Markets in action ! Who'd've thunk it?! 😉
The cooking oil idea has some risk too
I think even the most basic catering oil got to within 10% of the diesel price last time prices went through the roof
I just want someone to develop some sea algae farms that capture CO2 and can be rendered into a complex hydrocarbon for use in cars. Come on scientists! Show your metal!
Stoner - Memberactually if people are now seriously considering more efficient cars, alternative fuels etc then fuel is actually not "too cheap" it's price is starting to influence restriction on consumption. Markets in action
The problem with that argument is that almost 90p per litre is taxation, it's not the market thats making fuel so expensive, it's the government. They are trying to use taxation to alter people's behaviour. Otherwise, fuel would get really cheap through free market competition until it was all gone.
I sold my petrol A4 for a Frod Focus diseasel, so it's worked my me 🙁
I looked at this thread earlier and then went off and made coffee and realised that the figures for the VXR looked horrendous, so did some maths for our 2.2ton Kia Sedona and that only works out at a third of the price of that.
There must be something seriously wrong to be getting those sort of fuel consumption figures!
Just chopped in an S reg Peugeot 406 2.0ltr Petrol Estate for a 1.0lt Toyota Aygo, half the fuel cost, cheap tax, no MOT for three years, warrenty, cheaper servicing etc
So, while fuel cost was not the reason as such it's meant that for the same overall cost of ownership my wife has a new car plus we don't have any worries re reliability (something was bound to fall off the pug this year).
There must be something seriously wrong to be getting those sort of fuel consumption figures!
I think there is (See my last post above)
£3400 @ £1.10/l (Average) = 3091 l
3091 / 4.55 = 679.3 gallons
8000 miles / 679.3 = 11.8mpg
Which can't be right.
At 18000 miles it works out to be 26.5, which is closer. I reckon it's a typo. 🙂
My Land Rover does about 20-25mpg, I find this is not really relevant as I only drove 1200 miles in it last year.
post deleted. 😳
Has anyone gone down the LPG conversion route yet?
Been offered a tax exempt ex work Land Rover for silly money and was thinking of converting it for a cheap run around?
What are the conversion cost like at the moment?
it's price is starting to influence restriction on consumption.
Great, let's hope petrol gets more expensive then given that so far people's efforts seem to be [i]thinking[/i] about buying a different car and caning the accelerator a bit less.
PP that looks much better and is about what I'd expect something like a VXR to be doing.
I can remember when I was skint after my wife buggered off and left me with my two week old daughter and my fuel for my car when I could afford to drive worked out to 50% of my money a week.
That was when fuel looked expensive to me.
I've got data on my iPhone here right now
You must be fascinating at parties. 😉
Oh, I am. 🙂
Data was incomplete, that's why I deleted it.
Same as Tiger6791, well apart from the landrover bit.
I scrapped my 12 year old VW Sharan 1.9TDi which consistently averaged 40mpg and bought a Smart CDi which is averaging 63.56mpg I can just squeeze a bike in the car, but I'm a bit disappointed that I'm not getting near the manufacturers claimed 85mpg (probably due the the hilly nature of my commute) zero tax band though 🙄
For LPG conversions speak to
you can fit it yourself for a fraction of what someone would charge you.
The issue of getting a certificate from the people that fit it so that you can show your insurance company is, a myth.
If you fit the system yourself you will know enough about it to service / maintain it yourself.
Interesting that even with the price, the refineries are getting out of Europe because they make no money
The stinking fuel factories of Europe and North America are in their death throes, crushed by high oil prices and shrinking demand for oil products. Total is losing €100 million (£88 million) per month from its European refinery business. BP suffered a $1.9 billion deficit in its global fuel-making business in the fourth quarter, while Shell has announced another wave of redundancies, mainly in the downstream fuels business, after profits were hammered in refining and marketing.The problem is that there are too many refineries in Europe and too many that are inefficient, equipped only to process expensive light North Sea crudes rather than cheaper Russian or Arabian crudes with high sulphur content.
[url= http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/columnists/article7038406.ece ][/url]
uplink - Member
What?no one's come up with the line "fuel is still too cheap" yet?
I'm losing my faith in this place
Yeah TJ ( a non car owner) will be along soon... 🙄
[i]I done some sum's tonight and relised that over the last 8000 miles I've spend at least £3400 on fuel for my Astra VXR!!! On top of paying for the car every month then road tax, insurance, tyres, servicing the cost of motoring is just unbelievable.[/i]
The cost of fuel is only relevent when you actually drive the thing, you've probably lost more in depreciation anyway.
I've a 535i which averages nearer 20mpg. The fact that its suffered practically no depreciation in the two years I've owned it, and pretty standard servicing/parts/labour etc means its no more 'expensive' than a newer more fuel efficent car. And probably far cheaper than a nice new hatchback that'll do 40-50mpg.
Plus it puts a smile on my face whenever I drive it 😆
What the other bloke said. Either your sums are wrong or you drive in spectacular fashion everyday.
My experience is that cars vary a fair bit from the manufacturer's figures when I drive. There's a definite sweet spot as far as I'm concerned - a 1.6 or 1.8 Golf / Focus sized car will do decent MPG with me driving. Anything with a smaller engine and I thrash it to bits to make it move, anything with a lot of performance and I can't resist using it 😆
I think b r has it. His figures will be the depreciation of his vauxhall. Then there's his fuel on top. 😀
The fact that its suffered practically no depreciation in the two years I've owned it,
That's what they tell you when you buy it, I hope it's true when you actually come to sell......
"Oh no sir, demand for those has fallen recently"
I remember my old boss buying a new Mini when they first came out. Virtually depreciation proof they were. When he came to sell 2-3 years later, he couldn't give the damned thing away.....
Depreciation isn't too much of an issue if you buy a cheap s/h car to start with then run it into the ground.
Petrol prices are now starting to make me think a bit more about making shorter journeys. Like a couple of earlier comments, I have now bought a scooter. £15 road take, £8 to fill up, and over 200 miles to the tank. It has halved my commute time in London. Still have the car and wouldn't live without it, but I do think more before using it nowadays.
I moved house at the weekend and hired a van. Now that did scare me. A 450 mile round trip cost over £170 in fuel! Suprisingly, fuel economy was no different moving out with the van fully loaded than it was on the way back completely empty.
[i]The problem with that argument is that almost 90p per litre is taxation, it's not the market thats making fuel so expensive, it's the government. They are trying to use taxation to alter people's behaviour. Otherwise, fuel would get really cheap through free market competition until it was all gone. [/i]
So by this logic you would prefer that 90p to go into the oil companies pockets rather than into the government coffers, where it (theoretically) should be put to good use.
The last time petrol went up by 25% I heard that petrol usage went down by 25% (I may have my numbers wrong) I wonder how far the price can be pushed up and that equality still to hold?
[i]That's what they tell you when you buy it, I hope it's true when you actually come to sell......[/i]
I'm not daft - Only paid £2k.
Stoner - MemberI just want someone to develop some sea algae farms that capture CO2 and can be rendered into a complex hydrocarbon for use in cars. Come on scientists! Show your metal!
USAF is on the case
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/13/algae-solve-pentagon-fuel-problem ]Algae to solve Pentagons jet fuel problem[/url]
As above, fuel costs will fade into insignificance for some once you factor in depreciation. Buy smart.
I'm not daft - Only paid £2k.
Well done! 🙂
Bought smart... Well, bought an old site car from my dad's company for peanuts. it had high mileage, it's worth next to nothing, I do less than 10k a year in it and it is relatively cheap to run as a consequence (apart from replacing bits that have rusted/broken/dissolved. It is a Vauxhall after all)
HOWEVER... I am still planning on getting something far more economical (Octavia TDi estate probably) when the Frontera dies, and in the meantime, I'll be getting a new bike for the commute. I've yet to work out the savings involved with using a bike for the commute, but I think it might be enough to pay for the bike in a reasonable timeframe.
hmmmmm, wonder if the midget would take LPG.................
Probably not worth it though, getting arround 40mpg already on a motorway run at 60 and any faster the nose just lifts up off the road!
Still waiting for someone to bring out a 150mpg diesel electric hybrid engine like the Volvo prototype.
I've yet to work out the savings involved with using a bike for the commute, but I think it might be enough to pay for the bike in a reasonable timeframe.
Well, being as you have a car anyway, it's mostly only fuel you're saving.
My last commuter owed me £450. I did nearly 5k miles on it, and sold it for £100. At around 10p a mile on fuel at the time, I reckon I made about £150 on the deal.
My new commuter owes me about £250. I've already done 600 miles on it, and I'm looking at about 12p a mile on fuel now, so I've already saved £72. I recon it'll do the 4-5000 miles again, so I should save £240-ish plus whatever the bike is worth at the end. 🙂
Some diesel engines will run OK on staight vegetable oil SVO.
Get used stuff from restaurants etc.
http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html
maybe use your bikes more? a bit leftfield i know but it could work.
I remember people getting their collective knickers in a twist back in 1975 when petrol went to £1 a gallon (?).
Them's were the days!
I never get much mpg from my m'bikes as the throttle position only has two settings, 1 or 11, Ducati forgot settings 2-10 inbetween!
I would love to be able to bike to work but my journey is 30 miles round trip daily and i work shifts, don,t fancy that in winter or summer come to think of it.I also have to be on call covering a site in Essex as well 45 miles away.
I hate it when folks start getting all righteous about car use, i HAVE to use one end of, it makes me bloody angry the gov't giving large about using public transport....its sh*t and doesn't help shift workers ffs.
More of us have to work away from our local area as there are not enough good jobs locally, i would love to be round the corner.
I was/am a bit of a petrol head, but nowadays i just can't afford the cost of ripoff insurance, the ridiculous car tax increases and the woeful price of fuel. I have recently just traded in my old Alfa 156 for a Pug 307 1.6HDi not exciting but good mpg average 56-57mpg and only £90 a year to tax, which compared to the Alfa ave 36mpg and £205 a year to tax. More economical but no fun, which sums up life in Britain nowadays 🙁
why not rip the engine out and put some pedals in!
http://ridethisbike.com/2008/03/pedal-cars-not-just-for-kids-anymore.html
I think there is (See my last post above)£3400 @ £1.10/l (Average) = 3091 l
3091 / 4.55 = 679.3 gallons
8000 miles / 679.3 = 11.8mpgWhich can't be right.
At 18000 miles it works out to be 26.5, which is closer. I reckon it's a typo.
Sorry guys I did mess up. When I reset trip computer 8000miles ago it must not have reset the gallons consumed part.
My car has done 20500 miles. I was working it out at £5 a gallon for quickness. I've used 685 gallons. 29.9mpg.
Still I think it has to go.
think your self lucky - at least you get pep for those 30mpg .... my last car with the bike rack on (how it spent most of its life) would get 25-28 - and it was gutless !
my van is slow but gets 50mpg without any effort - more if i try and carries alot more
its all very well saying buy a small economical car till you try and stick bikes in it/go a long distance.... was looking at an aygo for the missus but she needs to carry a bike periodically for going straight to track training from work ..... aygo = nogo .... fiesta much better.
I wouldnt own a VXR without a fuel card or something similar! I had great fun in a 2.8lt Golf but it killed me at the pumps.
Trail rat- Our second car was an Aygo its an awesome little car.
Hora- Totally agree with that comment, you could really enjoy a car like this with a fuel card.
Sold my Discovery and my business van, my wife doesn't work anymore so I've nicked her Punto. I only have short commute and when I check the computer it's giving me 54MPG average.
Hated the small car at first, but now I like it. Just waiting for a Thule rack and I'll be happy.
Will look at a new car at the end of the year, but I'm hopelessly out of touch with cars as I've been using Landrovers for the last ten years.
Edit, yes fuel was getting silly, and I no longer needed a work/commercial vehicle so I've gone from 28 to 54 MPG. Like the little cars so much I went to look at a hot little 500 to skate about in HOW MUCH 😯
I think b r has it. His figures will be the depreciation of his vauxhall. Then there's his fuel on top.
Yeah if I had payed the list price for it!! I didnt. I got a 22k car for 15k
two years on they still selling for 15k+.
My model is Astra VXR Nurburgring Edition. I had similar thought about buying a vauxhall at beginning to but I couldnt afford a S3 and the price was right for a brand new VXR.
[i]Sorry guys I did mess up. When I reset trip computer 8000miles ago it must not have reset the gallons consumed part.
My car has done 20500 miles. I was working it out at £5 a gallon for quickness. I've used 685 gallons. 29.9mpg.
Still I think it has to go. [/i]
Phew! My VXR is being delivered this afternoon. I was basing my calcs on getting 20 mpg. Got a bit worried there for a second!!
Dave_r you'll love it. 29.9mpg is good for a 240bhp car. Just getting to expensive for me now. I cant justify spending that amount a wedge just to get to work quickly.
What bothers me more is the increased VED. I can live with lowish mpg but not £400+ a year tax. Sounds wierd when you factor it all out but for me its the nail in the coffin 🙁
Nice cars those VXRs
Personally I'm not fussed about the price, despite doing 20,000 in the last 10 months I always get around 60mpg unless gunning it! 71.6mp is my best...
... The car 174bhp 0-60 in 7.4 seconds 298lbs/ft torque 😀
Just read the opening post, monthly payments on a car I couldn't do that as well.
That said I was offered 54K for a vehicle by the bank two years ago. I was tempted to buy an RS4 then dismissed it. Probably could have sold one now for what I would have paid 😥
When we move next month I'll be 8 miles from work instead of 43, going down to 1 car and spending the extra cash on getting me some decent all weather riding gear!
Hope the VXR drivers have some money left over for a chiropractor. The ride is rather, ermm stiff!!
What bothers me more is the increased VED. I can live with lowish mpg but not £400+ a year tax.
What's the threshold for the high VED rate?
Yes got sick of it a while ago. Got two cars and both are smallish modern diesels. Still gives me a pain behind the eyes when I have to fill up but at least it doesn't happen very often.
Coopersport 1. Way to go. I did that years ago. 6 miles off road to work now. We do have the 1 car, but diesel. These days I get satisfaction by accelerating tediously slowly and trying not to brake.
Fuel prices? - Higher the better as far as I'm concerned. If a Government with some balls doubled the price and fired all the new tax into energy conservation and renewables, then we'd have something to smile about.
Yeah my golf gi averaging 32mpg will be going for a boring diesel with a fuel card , have only had he car 4 months and will probably keep it for around a year which is a shame as its the best car i have ever owned, glad i din't by an R32 though.
I think the threshold is 225g of CO2 per km, although 1st year tax is higher. To put this into perspective, my Focus ST falls below this so you can get a reasonably high performance car without paying the higher rate. Quite why the additional cost bothers anyone is beyond me though as the duty on petrol for such a car is far in excess of the annual VED.
rkk01- not sure but I think its over 220gm's that it starts to ramp right up (i.e. circa £200 then suddenly £400+)
Saying that.....
the Renault 5 Sport is still sporty yet not too bad on fuel......
will - Member
Nice cars those VXRsPersonally I'm not fussed about the price, despite doing 20,000 in the last 10 months I always get around 60mpg unless gunning it! 71.6mp is my best...
... The car 174bhp 0-60 in 7.4 seconds 298lbs/ft torque
Impressive - which car is that then? Does its computer say you get 60mpg or is that calculated?
We've got an LPG converted 4x4 which is cheapish to run - price per mile is on par with the medium sized td hatchback despite having a 4l V6! Once the gas hits empty though you need to fill up quickly...
If you're after a big car/4x4 then they're worth considering but I'd only really recommend one if you're doing a fairly consistent journey such as a daily commute due to the relative lack of LPG stations. There are more than there were but some aren't signposted so you'd never know just driving past.
Obviously this is less of a problem in a 1.0l Aygo than in something a bit beefier.
Obviously this is less of a problem in a 1.0l Aygo than in something a bit beefier.
I don't know; some of these cars have microscopic fuel tanks, and get slightly less MPG on LPG.
You can fill up with petrol in the normal tank an flick between the 2 can't you?
With LPG the mpg isn't the important thing, it's pence per mile which is key. It's no more efficient than petrol but is less than half the price so you might fill up more but spend less.
Once you hit the LPG switch it runs on that till it runs out and then switches automatically to petrol. Bit of a lag during the changeover but it's pretty seamless and then you're on petrol till you fill up the LPG and switch it back on. (Edit: you can switch manually back to petrol and not use the LPG but I can't see why you would. Possibly if one leg of a journey is all uphill and one downhill then saving the LPG for the uphill might work if you know there's nowhere to top it up)
The LPG nozzle is next to the petrol nozzle on ours so it's easy to fill both in one stop. Interestingly this sometimes resets the pump at certain garages so only the price of whichever we topped up second registers on the cashiers display...
We generally run it on LPG all the time and only a 1/4 a tank of petrol so we're forced to keep on top of it rather than just running it as a petrol vehicle until we get around to putting LPG in. Mainly because when pushed hard I can get sub 8mpg showing on the mpgometer of the 4x4!
Swalsey - Member
Impressive - which car is that then? Does its computer say you get 60mpg or is that calculated?
Seat Ibiza 1.9tdi Re mapped.
Computer said 71.6mpg but 60 is calculated 😆 I drive like a right granny some time!
[i]Yeah if I had payed the list price for it!! I didnt. I got a 22k car for 15k - two years on they still selling for 15k+.[/i]
Thats good, but you still needed to finance the £15k and you've probably lost some anyway:
This is known as the 'hidden' cost, as its not until you actual sell that you know the true running cost of any car.
The issue of getting a certificate from the people that fit it so that you can show your insurance company is, a myth.
Tell that to my insurance company, it still needed a certificate from a competent assessor before they'd touch it.
Neither Norwich Union nor NFU where interested, in LPG cert, when I insured with them.
I'm pricing up LPG conversion for my petrol t4 at the moment. looking like it will pay for itself in a year with the mileage i'm doing.
The LPG tank is in the car and takes up a lot of space. Even if it is put in the spare wheel well, where do you put the spare wheel ?
Don't carry a spare? That's what i will be doing with mine and a can of this
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(unless i'm going on the continent fully loaded where i can put it in a trailer of something)
You carry 2 cans of Holts tyre gunk. Or find a space saver the same PCD and leave it in the boot. I had a Saab 900 2.3 N/A on Lpg. Did 25 - 28 mpg , sold it at a profit too. Insurance co were ademant that they had to see the installer cert. Then ran a CarinaE 1.8 on LPG , that was a shed but did 30 mpg on gas. Big ends failed but I got alot back on 'bay.
Just sold my Cooking oil converted ZX . Lost £20 in depreciation in 55,000 miles. Cost around £100 in parts. Bought 1750 ltrs of clean unused cooking oil , adn that saved over £500 in fuel costs. Got 55 - 60mpg on veg oil.
Now running a td pd Passat . By rolling and in gear coasting run that at over 60mpg, not bad for 225,000 miles. Thats actual, not fuel computer , which actually underestimates a touch. Still hurts to put the 9 galls or 41 ltrs in each week.
I always carry tyreweld. Two punctures sir? A flat on the motorway Sir?