It's pretty short sighted to say going 1x is madness. Since doing it, personally, I and obviously many others have utterly loved it. My riding ranges from downhill to all day munros and it's been perfect for it all, so I don't see the trick you think I'm missing. What I do have is a less cluttered simpler looking bike, lighter in weight, less cabling and functions for my hands while riding, a gear for any situation, and so on. It doesn't suit everyone as some people want 20 gears; I just want enough gears to ride my bike, and I've got them, along with a quieter drivechain. No chance of granny derailment and chain getting stuck behind the granny ring tabs and gouging the frame (argue that the mech should be set up properly if you wish, it's still something that I bet the majority of us have experienced before).
It's not really a debate anyway, given that it's a personal choice. But calling this choice madness... well, if you can't see things from anyone else's perspective that's a shame.
10 speed is the most annoying system. Really its far to little for 1x system, but too much for a 2x system.
Something like 26/39 (SRAM) or 28/42 (SRAM) paired with 11-34 (9 speed) out back should give all the gears you want.
Its kinda annoying shimano produced the 10 speed stuff. Would of been much better to have all the 10 speed extras ie clutch mech extra on a 9 speed setup. As the cassette would of been lighter.
Then shimano could of jumped straight to 11 speed in an attempt to 1x system.
Bottle cages and bum bags appear to be back in fashion, so it won't be long before 3x setups are en vogue once more.
We'll be wearing Ron Hill Tracksters and pulling on bar ends next 😉
scu98rkr - Member10 speed is the most annoying system. Really its far to little for 1x system, but too much for a 2x system.
Kind of half agree but the expanders fix that. The only reason OE 10 speed is so limited is that the manufacturers withheld wide ratio cassette to give 11 speed a selling point, if you could buy an 11-42 XT cassette I'd still be on 10 speed... (there's a Sunrace out now I think but a bit too late)
(though going by 11 speed XT it'd weigh as much as a brick so maybe not)
(I don't think I griped about this in the thread, but do you remember when 36T cassettes came in and were kept as a 10 speed exclusive? Same thing. Shimano swore blind that 9 speed mechs couldn't cope with 36T, until after 10 speed had taken off when suddenly it did and they started selling the Deore 36T cassette. It was only impossible for as long as they could use that to sell more 10 speed)
1 x 10 for general riding and XC racing (30 or 32 up front, 11-36 rear)
2 x 10 for big mountains, marathon and stage racing (22 x 38 and 11-36 rear) With setup, I've been able to spin up climbs that are a painful grind in 1 x 11.
As other have said, when you need those extreme gears, you really do need them.
i run a 1*9 love it :D, (except on some hills)
I've gone 1x11 but may have gone 1x10 if this £45 11t- 42t Sunrace cassette had been around.
[url=wide range 10spd cassette] http://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/components-c9/cassettes-freewheels-c68/sunrace-ms3-10-speed-cassette-p14798/s43023?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=sunrace-ms3-10-speed-cassette-size-11-42t-size-11-42t-cssrs3142d&utm_campaign=product%2Blisting%2Bads&gclid=CjwKEAiAzuK0BRCW4tiLpJT-8TISJADV8cw9R3a0NmaUhwz97AQr_Pyh08aoea-_HRTx1EnTLZ-XNxoCs0rw_wcB [/url]
Bah, sorry.
Posting from mobile and can't embed link properly. Just copy and paste into browser.
So here is a question; Whilst I believe my soon-to-be-installed 1x11, 11-42 with 34T Oval will be fine here in the South (its only just below the range of my current 2 x 10 in the extremes), what about when I ride the Bonty 24/12 with 20 or so laps of the Clif climb?
My thought is to swap the front chain ring for a 30T, but does that mean shortening the chain?
Use a 32t from the start and just call it halves...
It's pretty short sighted to say going 1x is madness.
You completely missed the point. I didn't say 1x is madness, I said replacing a perfectly good system with a more limited version is. If your groupset wears out and you decide you fancy a change or you buy a bike with it on or you put your old groupo on another bike to make space it is not madness.
I even said I'd try it myself if it came on a bike I wanted! 😮
Some interesting points of view since my original post.
I have voted with my wallet for my new frame build, unsurprisingly, I have gone for a 2 X 10 set up as I believe it offers the best compromise for my type of riding.
As I said previously, I have had the 1 X 11 system, and it did work very well. It just didn't convince me for the type of riding I do.
Hmmm.
Its got me thinking I should sell on my as yet unboxed 1x11, and just change the worn 2 x 10 cassette & chain... 😐
There is of course "A THIRD WAY!".
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Basically 1x10 or 1x11, your chosen chain ring plus: 11-36/10-42/11-40/11-42 cassette, whichever you prefer, but using an "old fashioned" crank with 104/64 BCD, and mount a 22/24/26/28t ring for emergency winching duties in the Granny position, with no front mech...
It's a halfway house solution, in case you find you still need really low range but only once in a blue moon, it's a "manual" change obviously at the bottom/top of those big climbs, so comes with a built in excuse for a breather at the top, one less mech to maintain, free bar space for that dropper remote...
Maybe not ideal for everyone, but perhaps an acceptable compromise for some who are fine with their 1xN drive ~98% of the time...
1x1. I find I crash much less when I don't have to worry about what to do with my thumbs. I'd get a headache in the little flat between a descent and climb.
Really its far to little for 1x system
works for me. I think folk just need to work out what's best for them and put it on their bikes and go ride...
I'm struggling to remember how I fit the brake levers, thumbie's, Avocet wired speedo, great big Cateye light and bar ends on my old bike with 580mm bars since we seem to have such a problem fitting less to our modern 740+ bars. 😆
The latter IMO, as far as I can tell there's no ill effects (and tbf I've not seen any convincing explanation why there should be; nobody worries about chainline in the middle ring, it's exactly the same)
I won't pretend to know why 3x chainlines got set where they did, probably a combination of:
Practicality of frame fit
Intended/expected gear use
Historic legacy
What I do know is that on a 1x you'd want a chainline of around 44 to hit the middle of the block, slimmer again for XT/XTR11, which is why chainlines are all out on 1x. 3x particularly tends to focus on the smaller cogs in the block with the range of gears offered meaning that you don't tend to use the whole range as much, even in middle, but 1x is spread more evenly, so having a 'perfect' chainline would make more sense. Of course you couldn't just make a 44mm chainline crank as it wouldnt fit any pre-existing frame layout (probably) due to the interference between ring and frame, so we are left with a sort of wierd 'we know its wrong but were not going to do anything about it' situation. Companies like Pyga have addressed the issue with +5 frame alignment, but thats fighting a very uphill battle.
Does that mean that a Boost rear wheel with a non-Boost crank would get you the best 1x chain line?
yeah thats the [i]nicest[/i] way. Most Boost bikes would take a 32 ring without issue on a non boost chainline I think. That doesnt improve things much over swapping a spacer though, so I wouldnt run out and buy a boost frame just for that, but if I had a boost frame, I would definitely think about replacing the ring with a non-boost one when it wears out.Does that mean that a Boost rear wheel with a non-Boost crank would get you the best 1x chain line?
Just thought I'd drop this in here......
Tracey Mosely won her three ENDURO World Series riding..............
Wait for it............
2x11 so she could save energy by "spinning up the climbs but still have enough gears to rip down the descents"
I can only imagine the kind of internal confusion that caused typing the article up at MBUK.......
Yes but Gwinn won a world cup with no chain...
Makes you think
How did Gwinn get on pedalling to the start of the descent?
It's quite funny really; the entrenched views, sweeping statements and argumentative bollocks that a few sprockets seem able to bring out on STW...
Ride your bike, figure out what gears you like, make a spreadsheet (half of us probably have done) and either change them or don't... Beyond that it's not really all that controversial as a topic.
So reading between the lines of Ben's helpful input and MTBR forum geekery, you'll never achieve optimal chainline on current 1 x 11 as the current frame designs won't allow for the required inboard chainring position. This is caused on mtb 11spd by the extra cog being added further inboard over the spokes. So, from this perspective a wide range 10spd cassette (Sunrace MX/S3) and 11spd XT rear mech is a logical answer to the chainline woes, the compromise being the jump in gearing between shifts. Please let me know if i'm making sense here.
I can feel another industry standard coming on!!!!
:EDIT POST RETHIK: so, rereading Bens comments, both 10 & 11 speed can't offer a mechanically sound chainline (44mm 10spd), so in my blurb above 10 speed is the lesser of the two evils, ??? (i may well be over thinking this!).
both 10 & 11 speed can't offer a mechanically sound chainline (44mm 10spd), so in my blurb above 10 speed is the lesser of the two evils, ??? (i may well be over thinking this!).
Again is the chainline so bad it's a real issue?
I'd also go with the over thinking aspect.
People seem to have issues in cog 42 with a 1x set up that there just doesn't seem to happen with a 2x that's gotta be chainline related I'd think
From my experiences and seeing a few other setups of SRAM the 42t line is fine, though I don't spend hours looking at it. I use it a lot and it's smooth and quiet. I think I swapped a spacer over on the cranks as my 1x10 chainline wasn't as good and it was a little noisy. There is then a problem that some BB's won't let you do that.
Anyway what are these issues, cause all this thread has picked up is it looks a bit funny.
Anyway what are these issues,
These two treads could do with merging. Similar comments on MTBR too.
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/shimano-xt-m8000-chainline-issues
Ah the shimano version...
My experience with the sram stuff is much better, a complete redesign of the mech might help a lot.
Good grief.
Should I not bother with 1x11 and just replace bits on my 2x10 then? This chainset needs to get me through the 2016 race season - reliably!
i sit smugly on 3x9.
No issues at all with shimano 1x10 and a 42 cog here, my mates who use the same also haven't had any issues. It's the minority.
It. Just. Works.
@kryton57 - not sure if your post was being serious or not..but...IMO...1x is OK but not perfect and lots of expanders being used etc ...when quite simply 2x is tried and tested and works...I personally dont buy into the weight thing...your racing fitness/speed etc is in your legs not the weight of your front mech (or lack of mech)....try it (I have) but it's not a perfect sysetm for ALL riding , whereas 2x is...
It was serious.
I don't have the mechanical gift or time to be faffing around with chain lines and spacers. I just need it to work when then bike goes in the car for a 2hr race.
I don't want to be without a 42 up a steep hill or having the chain drop off the cassette mid race. I don't get that now on my 2 x 10, so I fear from the above and the links to other threads if I swap it over I'm about to inherit a load of issues.
Looks to me like it's all going in the classifieds at the moment.
. I just need it to work when then bike goes in the car for a 2hr race
To be fair if you want that to happen you need to get it setup right. Check it a few days before and if you can't fix it yourself pay somebody to.
The issues with chain dropping on the cassette seem to be around the shimano set up.
3 months into a gx setup and the only issue was the mech unscrewing which was fixed with loctite.
I had a fairly logical route into 1x. 3x9 with 44/32/22 11-32, replaced big with bash and middle with 36, 2x9, back to 32 middle, then 2x9 with 11-34, ignored granny for a while and realised I didn't really need it, 1x9, 1x10 11-36, then went from 32 to 33 to 34t ring. Mostly made the changes which required buying replacement parts when the old parts were worn out.
Maybe this is too much of an engineer's way to look at it but if you're like a big Diesel engine and only produce power over a narrow rev range you'll need lots of gears. If you're like a good petrol engine you'll produce power over a wide range of rpm (cadence) then you won't need as many gears.
What sort of pedaller you are doesn't come down to fitness but to personal physiology and how you ride/train. For a rider of my middling fitness I can grind a big gear uphill slowly and spin a small gear downhill very fast, so unexpanded 1x10 works fine for me.
@kryton - I think all the 1x problems are solvable but are an evolving process..
I have a feeling I'll be riding 1x in winter and 2x in summer (when in my long rides)..only a week ago I was on here saying I thought 1x was great but I'd probably have to buy an expander....now I'm questioning that..I have a perfectly good 2x in toolkit...better for me to spend the money on some quicker tyres than keep buying kit to make 1x fit my riding (and essentially fix a problem that doesn't need to exist)..... Like everyone says..horses for courses...
Nothing in there convinces me to make the change. Like I said, it sounds to me like all I'd be doing is upgrading my faff level.
Great. For Sale then.
yeah I really like the idea of 1x but what I really want now adays are bikes that are there and just ready to work.
And I dont really want to choose my terrain based on my bike.
Some terrain will be road and I want a high top speed where as at other times I'll really need a low gear.
You can easily pedal a comfy cadence at 20mph with 32-11, so how much road riding above 20mph does some people's mountain biking involve exactly?
And imagine what you could do with a 10t. Go back a page and look at the gears you drop on 10-42 it's very very little. Once you do the numbers it makes a lot more sense.
You can easily pedal a comfy cadence at 20mph with 32-11
What's a comfy cadence? That sounds like a lot of frantic leg spinning to me.
A 650b wheel with a 2.3" tyre on 32-11 equals 80gi. For 20mph that's between 80-90rpm. On a road that's quite normal.
