[Closed] 1 x 11 vs 2 x 10

Yeah I've had some similar thoughts, usually after I've jumped on the road bike for a ride and realised that I instantly go back to spinning at around 100rpm - something you (well, I) just aren't going to be able to do when climbing with 1x (although I haven't got an expander on the go, which would go some way to helping)

What convinces we to stay with it, is the propect of having to have a roller under the bb to make up for the chain retention lost from getting rid of a narrow-wide chainring

I'm having a similar dilemma tbh I'd defo go 2x10 but I've a silly emounted front mech at present and I'd need a new plate to try fit a mech and even then there seems to be confusion on which mech I'd need
1x11 or 1x10 with a wide ratio cog just seems easier to fit

I had similar thoughts and went 2x10. I like the fact that the cassette and (non clutch rear mech) are nearly 200g lighter than 11 speed ones which is a chunk of weight off the rear wheel axle.

I thought I might have been the only one to ponder the usefulness of the 2 x 10 system.

Very likely to fit 2 x 10 again.
Regards

Denis

I have reinstalled 2 x 10 on my hardtail for general bimbling and run 1 x 10 on the enduro gnarpoon.

I guess it depends on what you use your bike for, My mates run 1x11 but they drive to the play area, I tend to ride. I also use my bike for the commute, I can't see any real advantage over a 2x10 apart from the thick thin/oval chainring.
I think it is a fad, however can't see the point of 3x 10 on my Son's 29er, he uses 3 or 4 gears max!

For me its the lack of a front mech which frees up space for my dropper that is a major bonus.

Also I just don't need 20 gears. 10 or 11 are fine.

Shimano has a 10-40 or 10-42 rear for OK money, cant you find a ratio that suits your typical riding ?

I spent some time using gear calculators online to get a combo that suited me.

But, if you don't have a dropper post and don't mind the small extra mechanical faff of a front mech there is little difference.

Agree about 3 x 10, couldn't go back to that.

Most of the climbs at Afan see me in the lower gears for at least 30 minutes regards of which system I'm using.

Chainline is quite deflected on the 1 x 11 , compared to 2 x 10.

Could witter on about the cost of 1 x 11 cassettes, but never really consider my riding to be a cost conscious thing.

Just that 2 x 10 seems to make a little more engineering sense overall.
Regards

Denis

Peaks rider here ...

I've recently gone 1x10 on my cx/gravel bike, which gets some road duties too (38T chainring, 11-36, with a 40T expander that I occasionally use). The reason for going 1x10 was to remove the clutter around the BB area to reduce the mud build up in cx races. For that it works. I'm less convinced on the chainline at the extremes of the cassette, but will see how that goes. Overall I have enough gears.

On the MTB I'm sticking with 2x9. When the shifters or rear mech need replacing maybe I'll go for a 1x? set-up, but I'm not yet convinced that is better.

Is the chainline actually a problem or does it just look a bit funny?
Sram 1x11 here lost about 2 gears on my 2x setup se no reason to refit a front mech, most of my current rides involve a out 8-9km climbing before any descending. The chainline isn't noisy or clunky just runs fine. Not going shopping for front mechs any time soon.

If I'm going to have a front shifter, cable and mech I'll darn well have rings that aren't a compromise which lead me to extremes of the cassette.

A triple is deeply unfashionable but allows the middle ring to be used almost as a 1x for singletrack etcwith the big ring for road/bridleway and the granny for climbing without staying in the 36/34 all the time ie actualy maintaining cadence.

mikewsmith - Member

Is the chainline actually a problem or does it just look a bit funny?

The latter IMO, as far as I can tell there's no ill effects (and tbf I've not seen any convincing explanation why there should be; nobody worries about chainline in the middle ring, it's exactly the same)

Chain line just looked a bit odd.

No matter how much adjusting it always seemed to make a slight grating sound in the lowest gear.

I,m not totally against the 1x11 system, it has some good advantages, just can,t help thinking that there isn't,t the flexibility of a 2 X 10 system.

For me mud build up on the front mech isn,t an issue at Afan.

Funnily enough I have been pondering this this morning (part way up an exmoor climb)

I have 1x10 with a 42 expander and a 32 up front on my hardtail and a 2x10 set up with a 36 cassette on my full sus.

I can climb anything on a local ride quite happily on the 1x10 and was pondering changing the full sus (which I tend to use on "days out") over but I'm not sure there's a point.

There are definitely climbs on exmoor and the quantocks that I can ride up on the 2x10 which I don't think I could on the 1x10 even with the expander especially at the end of a long route. Maybe with a 30 up fo not but then I think I'd notice the loss of the top end.

I don't find I get much problem with the chain dropping and whilst I do like the simplicity of th single ring, I'm an intelligent chap and I think I can cope with the complexity of having two shifters!

3x10 for me... Especially with the M612 crankset: 22-30-40 - loosing any of these would be a massive compromise, which I don't want. As long as I have only one bike.

Why don't people moaning about chainline just adjust it if they're in the granny cogs most of the time?

I wouldn't go back to 2x again, getting rid of a second shifter is the biggest benefit, it reduces the amount of things you have to think about when riding. XTR shifters change 2 gears at a time both directions and the range you get is perfectly enough.

Not moaning about it, just an opinion on the compromise made by 1x11 vs 2x10.

I'm going to go 2X11 in the summer. I am running 2X10, but fancy an upgrade on the bike, but then I'm doing XCM riding, and my main event has huge climbs and long descents.
I would rather have both bottom and top end gears.

I don't get the whole "reduces the things I have to think about" thing. I mean it's not that complicated is it? Plus I find on the routes I do I'm rarely changing up front in the middle of something technical. If it's a climb I'm in the granny ring and at the top of a descent I'll stick it on the big ring.

Guess it depends where you ride, it's pretty hilly on exmoor and I think pushing up a hill just because you've gone to a single ring is a bit silly when you could ride it.

Horses for courses I suppose

ceepers - Member

Guess it depends where you ride, it's pretty hilly on exmoor and I think pushing up a hill just because you've gone to a single ring is a bit silly when you could ride it.

It's really pretty rare that happens tbh, compared to a traditional 22/32 bottom gear you lose one gear off the bottom, with a 32/42. (*) There's been times on really draggy, long climbs that I've wished I had that crawler gear but very rare, I don't think it's ever stopped me. And 32/10 is pretty much equivalent to the second top gear in a 44 big ring

(* OK yes you can go lower, with a 22/36 or you could even go expander and have a 22/42 bottom gear. But it'll be as fast as dragging yourself along with your lips)

I have a 36 on my 2x10 set up and there are occasions I've ridden stuff on exmoor / quantocks that everyone I've been with has pushed!

I've got a single ring on my hardtail 32/42 as the lowest gear and I can ride everything locally but I know that I'd miss the very lowest gear a couple of hours into a hilly moor ride.

I guess my honest feeling is that I'm not sure all the supposed disadvantages of the 2x10 are ones I've experienced in real life!

For me, 2 x 10 is better for climbing very long, steep trails where every gear helps. I'm borrowing a 1 x 11 bike right now, and while it generally climbs very well, I know there are certain climbs where I'd need to get off and push but which my 2 x 10 will just manage in its lowest gear. 2 x 10 components seem to last longer as well, from what I hear.

Anyone riding along in a 22-36 gear actually find they're going faster than walking pace? If you can't climb it in 32-42 then push or get fitter! 🙂

1x is lighter too, mmmmm.

But MTB climbs aren't always about speed, some of my local climbs are steep tests of finding traction, position, finding a line, fitness, skill etc. I plan to move from 36/24f & 11/34r on 650b to 34 wonky & 11/42, I "think" I'll match my lowest gear (that I need) with the wonky giving me an effective 32t.

Walking pace perhaps but you're not actually walking. If I was going out for a walk I probably wouldn't bring my bike to push along with me, the dog is better company!

FWIW I'm really pretty fit, probably fitter than quite a few people, I'm small, thin and a good climber on and off road. I've got 1x10 on one bike but I still think 2x10 has a place / can't really see its "huge" disadvantage when I swap to it from the bike that is single ring

Glasgowdan my low is 22/34 and I need it sometimes but on my fat bike in deep mud I'd rather trundle slowly up the hill than have to get off and try push

As for the less things to think about argument from some christ are we plant life or something it's hardly a bind

Hallelujah... there are people out there who agree with me that 1* is not perfect. For me its the loss of the extreme gears at each end that is really annoying. Yes you might only use then 5% of the time but i miss them. Changing the chain ring means im either too lowly geared or too highly geared.

Also agree with an earlier post about adding extra weight to the rear wheel. i cant get my head around how this can't be a major influence to how the bike handles, in terms of rotating weight and unsuspended weight.

I'm trying an oval ring to narrow the difference to the extremes of the cassette.

Glasgowdan

22 36 on my Ice Cream Truck and 20 36 on my Turner. Definitely faster up the climbs than my Enduro mates who are walking up pushing or carrying! 😀

Oh and lighter really isn't everything!

Great to see other like minded folk out there (I knew I could rely on you wl, for starters!) who actually enjoy their long, steep or technical climbs and haven't quite bought into the Emperors New Clothes that is 1 x 11!

If a hill gets the better of me, I want it to be due to my lack of skill or ability and not because of my bike! 😀

So 2x lasts longer, is cheaper, gives you a better range of gears and enables you to ride more versus not having your head hurt due to engaging your left thumb? While I am on my band wagon, I'm not a huge fan of clutch mechs either! 😆 😀

2 x 11, la la la la la

depends on what you ride, and I like to ride rather than "take my bike for a walk" (not my words, but ones I stole, cos I liked them).

If I'm going for a 5 hour walk up an Alp, it'll be with walking/hiking boots, not SPDs and a bike to push.

last post I made on this topic was that to get the same range that I [u]use[/u] but in a 1x format, I'd need a 9-56 tooth cassette with a 36 tooth chainring. Come on SRAM/Shimano, I know you can make that, and give me the equivalent of 3x with no overlapping ratios!

might skip 2x10 and go for 2x11

Is it just me that gets excited at the prospect of a 3x11 with a 10-42 on the back?

might skip 2x10 and go for 2x11

[quote=andytherocketeer ]might skip 2x10 and go for 2x11Assuming a 29x2.3" tyre, a typical 3 x 9 setup would give a gear range of 20.4 to 110.5 inches. 2 x 11 would give 20.3 to 100.0", so you're only losing a wee bit at the top end where you're least likely to need it (on a mountain bike at least).

fisherboy - Member

Also agree with an earlier post about adding extra weight to the rear wheel. i cant get my head around how this can't be a major influence to how the bike handles, in terms of rotating weight and unsuspended weight.

My 11 speed 10-42 cassette = 261g.
XTR 10-speed 11-36 cassette = 272g

Probably makes no perceptible difference anyway but still

Well I never used the 34t on the 3x9 cassette, 3x11 seems like massive loops of sloppy chain and a massive duplication of gears.
I run 1x10 11-36 and a 30t ring (26" rear wheel). As I don't pedal down hills the loss of high gears bothers me little; I have learned to adapt my cadence uphill and cope fine. If there is a really long steep hill at the end of a big day in the mountains I'm going to be pushing anyway (I know of quite a few fit guys in their 50's who've had heart attacks on bikes :()

Isn't 14 the magic number (14 unique gears in a 3x setup). The closer we get to 14 the better it will be! 10 seems enough for some, 11 a bit better. I reckon 12 or 13 will probably be all the gears most people need. I can imagine at or beyond 12 the chain dérailleur system would be at it's limits of acceptable shifting/reliability in relation to cost.

Multi release shifters (3 up 2 down XTR or converted XT if I'm not mistaken) seem like a useful addition to 1x systems.

Back on topic currently 2x10/11 is the best option for those with long climbs and lengthy tarmac journeys.

2x11 sounds and looks to be the most pointless of the lot. Massive overlaps

so what about massive overlaps?

Is it just me that gets excited at the prospect of a 3x11 with a 10-42 on the back?

well I see a 3x11 (or 3x10, or 3x9 even) as a 1x on the middle where you cna use most of the cassette most of the time, but with a bail out ring up front, and a bonus big ring for some bonus high end gears too.

I don't mind losing say the highest gear, but going true 1x with current cassettes, none provide the range that I currently have and use.

To replicate the lowest gear I use on a 1x would need a 28t chainring. That gives me a highest gear roughly similar to ignoring the smallest sprocket and throwing the big ring away and replacing with a bash ring.

so no 2x10 or 2x11 is not daft.... for the riding I do. nor is 3x.
1x would be perfect for 70% of my riding.

edit: and the fact that Shimano released 1x11, 2x11 and 3x11 options suggests there is a use for all 3 (even if they get slated for not following a fashion), and SRAM went and ignored the fashion they got commended for, and half copied Shimano and released a 2x11 option on their groupset most closely priced to XT.

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Coming from the 24/38 double that covered all of my riding very well I went 32 up front.
What I lost over the 2x?
Lowest 2 gears giving me about the same as 24/31 so damm close to those old 32t rears we used to think were fine.
At the top end the gearing comes out just a little higher than 38/12

I can still happily get up to decent speeds on the flat and downhills. I can still get up the hills.

so what about massive overlaps?

I was a little reluctant to believe what you could do with 1x but I looked at the numbers and went for it. The numbers make a lot of sense. Most of the guys I ride with now are running 1x all seem happy.

I don't mind losing say the highest gear, but going true 1x with current cassettes, none provide the range that I currently have and use.

To replicate the lowest gear I use on a 1x would need a 28t chainring. That gives me a highest gear roughly similar to ignoring the smallest sprocket and throwing the big ring away and replacing with a bash ring.

so no 2x10 or 2x11 is not daft.... for the riding I do. nor is 3x.
1x would be perfect for 70% of my riding.

This for me. If a bike I want in the future comes 1x then I'll give it a go but I certainly won't be spending a chunk of cash replacing a perfectly good system with a more limited version. It's madness, as are most of the excuses people use for going 1x. If you have the money and want to spend it then that's the only excuse you need. 😉

I think 1x has its place but it is very much dependent on rider's needs/wants...one wouldn't try to convince a roadie to ride a downhill bike on the road (I know it's an extreme example and not supposed to be taken literally)..

I've recently converted and like it for many reasons. However, I'm aware my type of riding (mtb marathons etc) will probably either necessitate an expander or returning to 2x. I will continue and see how it goes.

I do want it to work (1x) and see it worth paying for an expander - the simplicity appeals since I ride my bike in all weathers and try to keep mechanical issues/wearing to a minimum. But again, that simplicity is my value, someone would rightly scoff at my argument because that is of no interest to them...horses for courses...

A triple is deeply unfashionable but allows the middle ring to be used almost as a 1x for singletrack etcwith the big ring for road/bridleway and the granny for climbing without staying in the 36/34 all the time ie actualy maintaining cadence.

I'm still running 3x9 XTR! As you say, the middle ring does fine for most trails, leaving the granny for monster climbs and the big ring for riding home on the road. At some point it'll wear out and I'll need to decide what to change to.

I wouldn't spend money on going 1x11 but the ratios are close enough to not dismiss it. I found doubles and E type fittings more or less removed my gripes with the front mech (a 'normal' XC 29er).

That said, I do use 24x36 on the 29er on some loose climbs round here - I did used to ride a 32 cassette, but I had a 22 granny then, and still found a 34 useful when I replaced it. I wear the small (11/12)cassette sprockets out far quicker than the other end so a 10 tooth concerns me for longevity, but maybe that's been addressed.

chestercopperpot - Member

Isn't 14 the magic number

I felt like 2x9 was the magic number, since 18 is obviously the correct amount of gears. That's what I had on my Raleigh Marauder after all, and it was pretty cutting edge, even had SIS. On the back anyway.