[Closed] Wtf. £400 for a homemade balance bike

The end product isn't as good for the childs use though as a 'cheaper' balance bike.

It should be for the childs enjoyment, a light and nimble balance bike first and foremost not something to make the Dad feel smug that he'd created something.

I'm not against building your OWN frame. I can see many many positives, better to skip the £500 and invest that chunk of money in your own frame whilst giving your child a more appropriate and lighter bike to bash up.

Alot of tunnel-visioned muppetry on here today. 🙄

I spent four years and I don't know how much money doing a degree in Astronomy, and all I got was a piece of paper...

As a mechanic with the skills and equipment needed to build a bike and no kids, £400 sounds a bit steep.
For an office worker with a kid and the money to spare, I can see the attraction as a bit of a novelty.

It's the "gaining skills" bit about these type of courses I'm not so sure about.
First of all, I don't think two days is long enough to become fully competent at any type of brazing or welding.
Secondly, what are you going to do with those skills once you get home without access to welding and brazing kit, a frame building jig and all the other stuff they use on the course itself ?

Just to counterpoint some of the speculation here.

I've attended a course at the Bicycle Academy (Fillet Brazing Masterclass). It's one of the best learning experiences I've had.

For those who are sceptical about being able to braze to a safe standard, it's perfectly possible if you can listen to instruction, pay attention, and have a modicum of physical competence. They are excellent teachers.

They use gas fluxers with the torches so it's easy to see how the fillet your laying is behaving, and also the practice pieces are cut open so you can inspect the braze penetration on the tubes.

[img] [/img]

It's an easy way to decide if you like it or not. Also, by attending the course you get access to the workshop on a per hour basis, so you could prep up tubes, take them there and build the frame up.

It's a damn sight safer than being a have a go hero trying to figure out Oxy Acteylene brazing on their own in the garden shed.

They might not look like the tidiest joints in the world, but with a little bit of cleanup you can see how they soon look very neat and flowing.

[img] [/img]

hora - Member

The end product isn't as good for the childs use though as a 'cheaper' balance bike.

It should be for the childs enjoyment, a light and nimble balance bike first and foremost not something to make the Dad feel smug that he'd created something.

Returning to my own take, from teaching in a college. Our students come to learn techniques, they end up making things for their loved ones whilst learning things, it's not to be smug. Most of them could go to a furniture shop and buy a better made, and cheaper table or whatever but that's not the point.

We should embrace and prize craftsmanship and individuality and there is nothing better than toiling over something for someone you love, we all do it in whatever we are good at.

Even if a kid doesn't realise at the time how awesome it is that their Mum or Dad built them a cool bike that nobody else has got, and some kids WOULD appreciate that, they sure as hell will when they are older and look back on things, I know I would anyway. Stuff people have made for me is so much more special than some crappy throwaway thing.

Plus, kids don't care about a bit of extra weight so long as it's moveable, it'll be amazing fun.

Mikenetic, that looks great. I'd love to do it myself. 🙂

this is a home made balance bike
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billet cnc'd wheels and ally frame. it cost a lot more than 400 quid just in materials! including design and machining time i'd have to charge a grand for it. even has a 44mm headtube so you can fit tapered forks or a slackset...

I remember many rides and adventures on my Striker etc - but I couldn't tell you the detail of the bike other than it was silver. Earlier bikes I don't have a foggy/clue what they were or did. Your kinda missing my point and yes when they are that young they do feel the weight. It isn't all riding in a straight line, theres lifting, carrying, moving, turning etc going on.

However at the end of the day, its everyones own money to do with as they wish.

As mentioned already, I'd rather spend that kinda money towards a proper frame building course where you get to do more than a handful of welds. If theres a market for this kind of thing then great.

At the end of the day, you end up with something thats lovely to look at and will bring a child many, many hours of enjoyment.

As a comparison, most of the work related (IT) courses I go on cost thousands of pounds for a 5 day course. And yes, I learn stuff but £400 for a frame building course seems ok in comparison.

porter_jamie that is nice although I can't see any tyre logos?

hora - i thought you might berate the blue valve caps? (halfords tyres, the shame... ) 😳

Ah- thats a point, the pva tyres are worn out on my lads so need to upgrade the tyres.

If you want to pay it then great, if you don't then fine.

If you think the cost is for a bike then you are completely missing the point. I would love to do it and I wouldn't feel ripped off at all.

It is a free world.

Your kinda missing my point

Would you be happier with the course if you didn't have anything to take home?

If you think the cost is for a bike then you are completely missing the point. I would love to do it and I wouldn't feel ripped off at all.

+1

I'd like to have a go, primarily because of what I'd learn but you also get to take something home. £400 is cheap for a two day course compared to some of the fees I've seen for seminars and professional work courses.

My youngest is now verging on outgrowing his Isla balance bike, so the take home wouldn't be quite so useful.

I don't know about anyone else's kids, but my boys (2 1/2 and 5 yo) still want to 'be like daddy' 🙄 I reckon they would have been well chuffed if I'd built them their bikes and they could tell anyone that would listen, even at that age.

I don't know about anyone else's kids, but my boys (2 1/2 and 5 yo) still want to 'be like daddy' I reckon they would have been well chuffed if I'd built them their bikes and they could tell anyone that would listen, even at that age.

Spot on. It might also make up for some of my insecurities about not having a job that my kids find exciting, like fireman, pilot, superhero, bin man......

Well that kills one of Hora's arguments - the plus 1 lb weight difference will be in his crappy PVA foam tyres vs 2 x pneumatic tyres, tubes, rim tapes etc :-). Compare like with like and they weigh the same.

I build my own frames (self taught), did a regular engineering apprenticeship blah blah and (years ago) a night school welding and fabrication course. The night school training was useless in the context of brazing or TIG welding thin wall tubes - not at all comparable to 2 days with Brian Curtis.

Forget the end product - it is a test piece covering a variety of joint types and techniques (with the bonus it can be used for something). This is a reasonable way of seeing if it is a hobby you like without dedicating a week of holiday time (especially if you live 100s of miles away).

Can't see what the outrage is about ,the way I see it is your paying £400 for a course to learn some new skills that will see you walk away with a nice(hopefully)little bike for your loved one.

If I had the skills already then I would definetly be building my son his first balance bike rather than buying something off the shelf.

As it is I dont have the skills but would definetly consider doing the course for that reason.
As a fully paid up member of the working class it wouldnt be a case of more money than sense either I'd be doing it as a opportunity to enhance my skill base whilst doing something that my son will benefit from.

On a similar theme, Mrs MTG crocheted a blanket for her daughter.
If you add up the cost of the wool and allow for her time at minimum wage, she probably "spent" £100+ on a blanket that would have cost £20 from a shop.
I suppose the big difference is that you can't carry a half built bike frame everywhere you go and stand there doing a bit of brazing and filing while you're in the queue at Tesco.

at first glance I thought that I could see Hora's point..

But actually it's a very good price IMO
Mrs yunki runs cake decorating and sugarcraft courses, and whilst she's not charging £400, she's also not giving you a hand crafted complete bike for your tot at the end..

What she is giving is time, patience, knowledge, skills and a firm grounding for any projects that you might wish to take on in the future..
Plenty of people will piss £400 quid up the wall on a lads weekend or a health spa or on the gee gees or some damn fool pair of shoes, or a watch or a telly or a phone..

Sorry its still 500 for a balance bike and two days of YOUR time for a few welds.

Go on a proper frame course IMO

Sorry its still 500 for a balance bike

No.. No.. It.. ISN'T.. It really isn't.
<sigh>

"[i]Sorry its still 500 for a balance bike and two days of YOUR time for a few welds.[/i]"

That's like saying a weekend in Paris is still £500 for a plate of snails and two days of YOUR time.

THE TWO DAYS OF YOUR TIME IS WHAT YOU'RE PAYING £400 FOR.

You seem to see the time spent building it as an actual additional cost. If it was anyone else I'd accuse them of fairly amateurish trolling, but sadly I think you actually believe what you're saying.

It's hard to know where to start...

Hora's missed the point by, like thaaaat much re the balance bike building [b]course[/b].

They look like really good balance bikes.

Weight isn't really that important on balance bikes, as long as they're not silly heavy.

Strider's are shit IME*. Both my kids have ridden them and hated them. They're fairly crappy quality. And the tyres really are shit.

* The proviso being that all balance bikes are "good things", but once you start comparing them then you have to make a call. I'm calling Striders shit.

*awaits #horaclangers to appear on his twitter feed*

There really is a point being missed behind this thread. And as far a tunnel-visioned muppetry then yes, sigh...

What's that quote about knowing the cost of everything but the value of nothing...?

And courtesy of google, which is almost related to the thread:

"there is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man’s lawful prey".

Ok. Two trains of thought. I say money better spent on a proper frame course. 400+materials COST is too much in my opinion for a balance bike. Someone else says I think its great value/see the point of it.
Then it becomes a browbeat/you arent allowed an opinion?

Wtf. Should all posts follow a set procedure where everyone agrees or dissent is supressed?

Nice.

I've typed this very slowly;

You are spending £400 for 2 days being taught some specific skills relating to bike building. For a practice piece they use a kids balance bike as there are fewer joints to make/align and it can be done in less time than a full diamond frame.

The actual skills learned are the same as on a 5 day 'build a frame for yourself course', you just do less practice.

You can disagree with the worth of learnign the skills but to keep saying 'but it's £400 for a balance bike' doesn't make people think you understand what's beign sold.

How much for the stabilizer building course?

You're right Hora. Its like North Korea around here nowadays!!!

Or Nazi Germany

[img] [/img]

call the cops

At the risk of getting flamed, I don't think it's that bad.

If I had kids and the cash, then I'd be tempted. It'd be good fun to understand a bit more about building bikes as well as getting something unique.

As other have said people spank away similar money on much more wasteful stuff like getting hammered for a weekend. I also don't get the obsession with what other people spend their money on. If they've got it, think iybe a good thing to spend their money on, then who cares? If you don't think its good value for money don't do it!

Kicking it off with...

"Wtf. £400 for a homemade balance bike

Now you too can piss money up the wall"

...was never likely to lead to balanced debate. You didn't kick it off with "Hmm... I'm not sure that's the best way to spend money to learn to braze" or "That's an interesting marketing angle - they've aimed that at a distinct demographic haven't they"

No.

You shot off with a pile of over-opinionated drivel.

"[i]you arent allowed an opinion?[/i]"

There's having an opinion and there's obstinately refusing to see beyond the bit that you choose to see.

In the "you aren't allowed to?" vein, aren't people allowed to offer something that a sufficient number of people will see sufficient value in to warrant the asking price? You started this business of complaining about the damn thing, after all, and did so in a rather aggressive and hyperbolic manner; it seems a bit childish to then start crying because people have subsequently expressed the opinion (aren't we allowed to?) that you're being a drongo.

500 quid plus accommodation etc for a balance bike and a load of skills that'll last me a lifetime sounds fair to me...

However the wife says once I've looked at the cost of a jig, torch, workshop, insurance etc I'll realise its a total waste of money because no matter how many times I tell myself it will happen, it clearly won't.

So I might as well buy a secondhand bike & take the whole family on holiday & stop thinking of my self for once.

Curses her and her sound reasoning

You shot off with a pile of over-opinionated drivel.

Pretty much the norm on STW

Some mothers like to knit or crochet lovely clothes for their little ones even though the cost of raw materials and time is waaaay more expensive than far eastern sweat shop stuff - its about pride.

Some fathers love to spend thousands on their own bike bling but fob their little ones off with junk.

Some people just don't see the point of anything.

I'm unlikely at 61 to have another nipper, but if I did and had the money spare I would jump at doing this, say "there you go son, daddy made this". Then use the skills to try to build my own bike.

However the wife says once I've looked at the cost of a jig, torch, workshop, insurance etc I'll realise its a total waste of money because no matter how many times I tell myself it will happen, it clearly won't.

As mentioned previously, once the course is completed, you can pay for workshop time by the hour and have access to all that..

Sorry hora but even I'm going to disagree with you on this one.

£400 for a 2 day frame building course. At the end of it you'll have used some of your new found skills to build a balance bike.

So £400 to go on a course and £30 > £100 for parts to build your project up into a bike.

Its how you view what you get for your money. If you view it as nothing but a balance bike then its probably no good for you. If you view it as an introduction to frame building (and you even end up with a balance bike as a bonus), its not actually too bad. Like I said, £400 for a 2 day frame building course vs £2500 on the last techy course I went on where I learnt boring 'work stuff'... I know what I'd rather do.

'Skills that'll last a lifetime'
'Introduction to Frame Building'
'Pay for the workshop by the hour'
'Understand a bit more about building a bike'

Yah.
Sure.
Big Fat Chinny Reckon....

You're not talking to the wife now fellas, so do give over...

It's perfectly targeted at STW chaps, with the added bonus of 'Oh Yes Dear, I'm building a bike for little Oscar'.

If any of your wives fall for this, you have free reign to get a Swedish au pair and her sister and probably her mum too, to help you 'look after the kiddies'...

does not seem too bad for a course...

Dave Yates course is £975 + materials (£180) + it is a 5 days course so unless you live local then you have to pay for accommodation food etc

yes you get a proper frame etc but still as a taster of frame building the BA seems an good option (i did support their crowd fund)

but as with everything on this theme - no one is forcing people to go and pay..

I started writing something. But gave up.

Instead

😯 😆 😕 🙄

As mentioned previously, once the course is completed, you can pay for workshop time by the hour and have access to all that..

Only really any good for locals or people with too much time / money then.

I suppose there's a more fundamental question - how many people who do these courses are actually going to take up framebuilding?

"[i]I suppose there's a more fundamental question - how many people who do these courses are actually going to take up framebuilding?[/i]"

I can't see how that's a fundamental question. I'd like to learn how to work metal and build frames but I have no intention of taking up framebuilding.

The fundamental question is simply, are there enough people who think that £400 is worth paying for two days doing something fun and interesting and rewarding?

I don't see why it needs to be viewed as a gateway to a life of sophisticated plumbing any more than it needs to be viewed as a particularly tiresome way of buying a bike. Both miss the point that some people will simply see it as two really enjoyable days doing something that there are very limited opportunities to do.

Are people who spend £400 flying out to Morzine for a weekend expected to take up downhilling as a career? Cos I've done that and I'm no pro downhiller. And I didn't even come back with a bike. It was just some time having fun. Why is playing with power tools and torches not equally valid fun?

funny thing money..

someone I was speaking to who just bought a brand new brown metallic Kia Sportage for £22k thought £750 for Brompton was outrageous....

BA was originally set up to teach skills and also supply africa bike frames.

Haha! I have spent some time away from STW due to concentrating at work a little more, good to see some things in life (Hora) are constant.

My only surprise is that you didn't jump on this, make it and then sell it a week later to pursue your next fad.

Classic 😀