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I've bought the ring on the same premis and emailed querying the ring I received. I had a reply saying "The ring has a special tooth profile to hold chain on rough terrain. There is a lot to tell but to make it short it's not really necessary to have thin-thick profile to keep things on place".
To me, that suggests a certain level of chain retention. If i'd wanted a normal chain ring I would have spent far less on one from another brand.
I dont class the Swinley Blue or Red as particularly aggressive and my spiderless has been losing it on these. Come on Works get the spiderless sorted
Well, had my works one about a month.
Haven't dropped the chain once.
To me, that suggests a certain level of chain retention. If i'd wanted a normal chain ring I would have spent far less on one from another brand.
That seems to be where the ambiguity lies - he also thought that, but had dropped the chain multiple times riding the Surrey Hills.
It seems to me they're contradicting themselves:
- "SRAM spiderless ring, you don't need fancy tooth profiles for chain retention, this will suffice"
- "SRAM XX1 style ring, fancy tooth profiles improves chain retention"
It seems to be that the SRAM spiderless ones do not work without a guide, and retention is no better than a cheaper ring, but the XX1 style ones may well be excellent. The marketing on these isn't all that clear - Tehan, perhaps worth addressing. I'd be making it clear that with the spiderless one you [b]do [/b]need a guide.
I agree with comments above. Until I just came back here to read updates on this thread, I was under the impression - and have been telling people I know - that the XX1 style Absolute Black ones that have just come to market are both in spiderless and 104BCD. I thought they were simply different fitments for the same new XX1 style chainring product.
Tehan, you need to make this clear. It seems as though it just so happens that you have brought out a spiderless at the same time as the 104BCD XX1 style rings which does NOT offer the same XX1 style chain retention, and you are concerned that sales will suffer because of this so are dressing the spiderless ones up a bit pushing the boundaries with your promises of what it can deliver. I think customers would prefer you to be open an honest. People will still buy the spiderless so long as they understand what they are getting and are convinced they are getting a good deal. The spiderless rings are still great rings by the looks of it, but you need to make it clear what the customer is getting.
Also in some of your responses you do not come across professionally in that you are making out that there is some sort of magic going on, or additional technology or method in your R&D and design of which you will not speak about. Again, this if anything puts customers off because it sounds like you are trying too hard to protect your design. I would prefer honesty again and an admission that frankly, they are all much of a muchness and are based on the same idea of XX1 with wide/narrow tooth profiling to aid chain retention. I'm sorry but it's nothing more than that. SRAM brought something to market and caught everyone with their pants down because it was a good idea, and everyone wanted it. SRAM being stubborn have missed the boat because they pitched it way up at premium level and are happy to let it trickle down gradually. Companies such as yours copied the idea plain and simply, and it just works...very well.
It's really a battle of price and availability now. Some customers will be swayed by certain designs and/or how a company acts online and communicates with its customers too.
For me, I have ordered a Works Components one, but that is mainly because it is the cheapest and I am in the UK and it is available now. The comms from Works is absolutely appaling though. I have emailed 3 times with no response and also commented on their facebook page, again with no response. To be fair, he sounds very busy so I am giving him/them, the benefit of doubt and the facebook feed gives updates about the batches they are doing. I think they have huge demand for these chainrings in the UK.
uff, quite a lot to read.
So.
I have 2 types of chainrings.
[b]SRAM Spiderless [/b]- they have tall, wide tooths (same as on my xx1 style shimano) but without thick-thin addition(never claimed it was true XX1). In some cases (XC, marathons etc) they do keep the chain without chain keeper. I would never write that without a backup. I do have people riding in Germany, Poland,Australia and some in US using that chainring in XC and racing marathons without a guide. Usually 32T and 34T as they offer more chainwrap. So it is possible to ride without chainguide on it.
Now, UK is a bit rougher in terrain and i do also have few guys where this chainring does not work without a guide, honest and short story. That is why i wrote on the website that for light terrain it will be ok and for more aggresive riding chainkeeper will be necessary. It is really very individual thing and a matter of where you ride.
My tester Marek Konwa (Silver WC medalist) is using 34T spiderless with his XX1 groupset without a chainkeepr and it works for him great... i have even posted a video here few pages back.
In addition - my spiderless design is the lightest and Cheapest! so there is no way you can get spiderless ring for less, even when someone say it does not work without chainguide for him. Such design offer a lot of benefits on its own and you just cant find a cheaper way to drop 150g off of you drivetrain for sram crank.
Misunderstandig came form the fact that some folks assume a lot and do not read all info when purchasing.
My other product is XX1 style Shimano ring. [b]this product has not been yet delivered to anyone yet[/b] - so no one comment on that one as it is impossible:)I will ship first backorders by 8th July
This ring is really similar to original XX1. That means thick-thin tooths, mud seeping etc. So it will not need chainguide and that is clearly written on the web as well. I have it tested for months with enduro guys and it simply works. On over 6 months usage i was informed about 2 drops. Both were in terrible mud.
So what people comment on is sram spiderless, and yes for some people it will not work without a guide. BUT when you put a guide on, you are still lighter on such setup because you just saved yourself 150g on spider and your old chainring & bolts. So to be fair one gain lighter, sleeker, more durable (better alloy and wider tooths) chainring than with his previous setup for the price i would consider really fair compared to what you get.
Once you have this ring in your hand you will understand what i am talking about:).
So for people who don't bother to read all:
Sram spiderless- you will most likely need to use a guide in UK. But i do have some people using it with success without a guide on flatter terrain.
XX1 style Shimano - you will not need to use a guide (same like Works or original XX1).
if you have any more questions just let me know.
Marcin
Marcin
You did not put any of that stuff in my original question in this thread about why it was not thick thin. You just said that it was not needed and you only added it to the shimano ring owing to people pressure. It has 1 ride on it and it didn't come off but i live in the lakes so it is not flat and i didn't want to have to run a guide, hence why i bought one of your rings in the first place. Reading what you have just put makes me think that if you haven't lied, then you have stretched the truth a long way.
Pridds - write me an email and i will sort you out if you are not satisfied. I get so many emails these days and a lot of people writes that it works some that it doesn't in their terrain so i must have been in the good mood that day as there was another happy customer:) With these sram spiderless rings it is hard to say for whom it will not work so i guess i will move to alternating design soon, but will have to push the prices up a bit.
Btw, if it worked for you without a guide then great. Let me know when you do some more miles as well.
I am sorry if you felt cheated. Send me an email.
On the side note,
To be absolutely honest. You cannot imagine what customers do with their bikes sometimes. I am not saying anything bad, so please don't jump on me. But it's really hard to control how you use the product as well. For eg i had already few customers who mounted that spiderless ring other way round! I thought it is not possible at all until i have actually tried myself. From such setup i got emails from customers that chain is skipping(tooths are directional so if mounted other way round..), chainline is bad etc... then it goes to the forums. I got customers with really wired spacers setup on bb, so chainring was not performing ideal. I get customers with far too long chain and so on.
So at least 15% of users does something to their bike i don't have control over.
That does not help to any brand and i have worked for few and have seen same thing.
So guys, if you feel that a product A or B works wrong in your opinion then always contact salesman first. In my case i am ALWAYS willing to help and try to find best possible solution for that individual issue. Sometimes it's just a minor adjustment and it changes whole situation.
sorry for long post again...
Marcin
There was no email, all the conversation was on this thread. Look back through it.I said i wanted to cancel the order if they were not thick/thin, you reasssured me that it didn't matter and the profile was more important, none of the stuff mentioned above was said which is what severely pisses me off as if you had said it i would have got a wolf tooth one months ago and not dicked about with one that probably wont work if it a bit rocky. You also did not mention that there was any significant difference in performance between the spiderless ones and the shimano ones but apparently there is.
damn, i received my absolute black sram spiderless chainring early this week but haven't actually fitted it yet, not sure what to do now! my xo crank has the 104 spider so maybe i should have got the other style 🙄
[url= http://chris-noble-mtb.blogspot.com ]chris-noble-mtb.blogspot.com[/url]
From a [url= http://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=148240 ]Pinkbike post[/url] by Tehan announcing the spiderless rings
"The ultimate solution for Sram cranks that feature a removable spider. Spiderless chainrings allow for flawless single speed or Sram 1x9/10/11 drivetrain setup.
...
Chainring tooths optimized for great chain retention while riding in rough terrain!. In almost all cases chainkeeper is not necessary. Tooth profile is directional, that means it will keep your chain on, even when back pedaling on descent."
Don't think I misread anything, I think claims were made that reality has proven inaccurate
You are digging a bit of a hole here Marcin, you've posted on here, on Pinkbike and your thread [url= http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=115909&sid=e0965572d766d986d75686086cc1697d ]here[/url] that the spiderless SRAM ring works without a guide "in almost all cases", now you're saying that for anything other than smooth riding you will need one. I think it's safe to say that the thick/thin rings do work far better, and you're not just doing it for 'people pressure'.
Just received my Wolftooth SRAM spiderless xx1 style chainring in the post. Very nice piece of kit and very light. Looking forward to getting it on and testing it out.
[url= http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3757/9183362907_0799bfb957.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/88504879@N03/9183362907/ ]Wolftooth spiderless 1[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/88504879@N03/ ]wobbliscott[/url], on Flickr
[url= http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3818/9183363069_a88c86a5f1.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/88504879@N03/9183363069/ ]Wolftooth spiderless 2[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/88504879@N03/ ]wobbliscott[/url], on Flickr
Just contemplating whether or not I should install with a new chain or not. My current chain is only a couple of months old so should be in good nick, but not sure if a new chain would be better to ensure proper and symmetrical bedding in??
Got the Wolftooth piece over the Works one as it has the holes for the bash ring installation. The Works one doesn't seem to.
Very nice. My 30t 104BCD Wolf Tooth ring has arrived, but it’s currently sitting at the post office waiting for me to pay ‘the fees’. I’ll pick it up tomorrow, and with a bit of luck I’ll have the 1x10 kit on the bike for the weekend, minus a chain guide ?
My current chain is only a couple of months old so should be in good nick, but not sure if a new chain would be better to ensure proper and symmetrical bedding in??
You could put a new chain on now and then swap back and forth once the new one has two months wear.
Tweet from Dirt Magazine this morning RE: thick/thin chainrings...
Dirt Magazine ?@DirtMagazine 3h
Just had a very interesting email from SRAM on this matter...
I couldn't wait and installed it last night - though i've not ridden it in anger yet, so still have time to put a new chain on. Strange how I didn't pick up any import charges.
Yeah, seems to a bit hit and miss. I've had stuff arrive before from the US without incurring charges, but this time I've not been so lucky. £9 duty and VAT, plus a £6 handling fee from Royal Mail!
The link Dirt put up to Fresh Produce has been taken down... Hoping my Works Chain ring arrives before the SRAM Teddy Bear leaves the cot... 😐
Just a little update on my Wolftooth.
Still not dropped a chain yet. 🙂
Having a quick look at that patent sram have filed: https://www.google.com/patents/EP2602176A1?cl=en&dq=sram+chainring&hl=en&sa=X&ei=RP3SUbWvOoSgtAbAoIDoAg&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAQ
It looks like Wolf Tooth have the most worry about as they have all of the fancy chamfers and the cross shaped teeth...
Thing is, this to me is a real step forward in drivetrain, will be a pita if SRAM keep it to themselves, i quite like shimano bits too.
Mine arrived. 88bcd for the XTR 985.
[IMG] 
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What are those litte angled chainring tabs, Chunky?
Big thumbs up to Wolf Tooth. Ordered a 36 for an XT setup last weekend, turned up within 6 days, first outing was a 80km xc race. No dropped chain, no chain device used, perfect in every way.
I got fed up waiting for my XX1 chainset, indeed the shop are now telling me there are none on the horizon either( 170mm/GXP/168). So I've ordered a Zee chainset and a RF 32t ring.
Works ring here, lots of rides now, many of them bumpy, no dropped chain, well good.
singlespeedstu - MemberJust a little update on my Wolftooth.
Still not dropped a chain yet.
You taking that set up to the Alps this year?
seems as no ones mentioned/reviewed the race face one...
it works! raceface wide/narrow single ring, no front guide, xtr clutch mech and no drops at all
used in the peak district, i dont think it will ever drop the chain for my riding TBH, i'd be very surprised anyways....probably not best to descend the rockiest of descents in 10th gear (as chain at slackest point) but on normal smoothish trail centre terrain im sure that would be fine
so yep the raceface one works as advertised
Oscillate Wildly - Memberi dont think it will ever drop the chain for my riding TBH
Interested to hear how the chain retention lasts with a bit of wear
yeah well there is that HG - i to am a bit skeptical about the wear and if it will affect it, so not sold my top guide just yet 😉
but if its reasonable and i get about 5 months out of the ring up front and its still ok then i dont mind swapping it out a tad earlier to compensate, if it wears after 2 months then that will be the end of that!
Mine arrived. 88bcd for the XTR 985.
Oooo, didn't realise they were doing it already!
Oscillate Wildly - Member
so yep the raceface one works as advertised
That's good news, I've got one waiting to go on my new build. Was still going to us a top guide but might not bother now.
fathomer - depends where/what you ride
id not be doing without a guide if i was a downhiller, but i seriously doubt if you ride the peak at speed you'd struggle knock it off the chain with a clutch mech, well i haven't and although im not the fastest going im not the slowest either
id say my last 2 rides with it on have been pretty testing, certainly i doubt i will ever ride much rockier than where i do so for me it works, if i lived somewhere flat i actually think you'd probably get away without even a clutch rear mech
it says it all when the olympic guys were running xx1 with no guides, do you really think those guys would have risked chain drop if they hadnt got confidence in it?! speaks volumes to me and the course was pretty rocky in places where it could have come off
its just one of them things that 'works'*
*cant vouch for the longterm yet though with wear 😆
I ride a bit in the peaks, usually the stuff from the V publishing books and at rocky Cannock, so shouldn't have a problem.
yep you'll be fine! like i mentioned before if your descending really rocky stuff id advise perhaps shifting to the middle of the cassette, i reckon the only way you'd 'possibly' lose the chain is in 10th gear descending rocky stuff (when chains at its slackest), anywhere middle upwards on the back and the chain is pretty much solid and taught (dependant on if you have your chain cut correctly of course)
Oscillate Wildly - Memberit says it all when the olympic guys were running xx1 with no guides, do you really think those guys would have risked chain drop if they hadnt got confidence in it
To be fair, lots of SRAM riders have gone off message and fitted chain devices with their XX1.
Chunky.
Already been on on Apine trip but took a 2x10 bike.
Ah ok.
Just done my first proper ride on my Wolftooth, and it's...... 😀
Bloomin eck its very impressive. 32 miler on the North Downs, hit the rooty steep choppy bits as hard as I could, this thing just doesn't jump - silent too, I mean deadly silent. And at the moment I'm not even running a clutch mech. Time will tell, would I run it on an Alpine holiday all week? Dunno, might take it but also take a top guide for backup.
I reckon this on my Mojo with my Zee mech will be a pretty nice setup. Wolftooth are really nice to deal with too.
Get one before the big bad SRAM spit their dummy.
I used my Wolftooth at the dyfi enduro.
It's quite rocky round there and the chain was dead silent for the whole event.
[url= http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3830/9207977727_41df1e43df_z.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/stu-b/9207977727/ ]image[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/stu-b/ ]multispeedstu[/url], on Flickr
No chain drop? Mine didn't even skip. I tried back pedaling too over rough stuff and still didn't miss a beat.
Just finished my first ride with my Wolf now that I've given up on the POS that was my Absolute Black. I gave it hell, fast and rooty, berms, slow and rooty, nothing phased it. The chain stayed put. Count me a satisfied customer
My 30t Wolf Tooth ring is now on, and I’m glad to report that after this morning’s ride all the hype appears to be justified. I’ve gone for a ‘poor mans’ XX1 style 1x10 set up using the 30t ring, Sram PG1070 11-36 cassette, XT medium cage Shadow + mech, Zee shifter and General Lee 40t adapter. Last night I spent a couple of enjoyable hours in the garage removing the Hammerschmidt 1x9 set up, and installing the 1x10 stuff, and this morning it all worked perfectly. My only concern is the exposed chain ring. The Wolf Tooth ring isn’t exactly cheap so I’ll probably end up fitting a lower taco of some description to protect it from the inevitable rock strikes. It doesn’t look like I’ll need a chain guide or tensioner though 🙂
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Yeti.
i've got one of these fitted with mine.
Wolftooth do a nice bash to go with their chainrings.
Only fits their direct mount chainrings though.