http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12283937

So very sad that a 62 year old man should have been killed by thugs in london town, says a lot for society down there.

So very sad that a 62 year old man should have been killed by thugs in london town

Yes.

says a lot for society down there.

No.

Tragic and horrible, but bad things happen in other parts of Britain too you know. Like Glasgow, Manchester, Birmingham, Rochdale, Whitehaven…

says a lot for society down there.

<Waits>

EDIT: way too slow.

stop using a murder to troll!

Just down the road from me where they came from. Truly tragic story.

Killed by an ex-public school girl, says a lot for public schools.

I think other elements of her background were probably a lot more relevant to her actions that night than was her public schooling.

In fact, that she went to a public school is probably irrelevant.., do the crimes committed by state schooled individuals speak primarily about their schooling?

Alright. An innocent guy has been beaten to death. Please can we not use it as a jumping off point for socio-political point scoring.

Safer to pick on the white girl than the black bloke right?!

do the crimes committed by state schooled individuals speak primarily about their schooling?

Are only prejudicial comments aimed at people from my neck of the woods allowed then ?

Am I not allowed to express my own prejudices against former public school pupils ?

It sounds a little unfair.

I’ve bin to both public school and a state comprehensive. And I think the killing of this poor man was horrific and utterly inexcusable. The people that did it are horrible, twisted individuals who need to be kept away from other people so that they can’t commit the same crimes again. I hope they get the treatment they need whilst incarcerated, and can come to terms with just how devastating the consequences of their actions are.

Where they went to school, what colour they are and where the attack happened, are purely coincidental. Let’s leave it at that, eh?

Flippin’ teenagers….

Am I not allowed to express my own prejudices against former public school pupils ?

Just so long as we’re allowed to express our prejudices against women and blacks.
Killed by a **** says a lot for ****

Fill in the blanks – acceptable comment or not?

Sorry, I thought if the troll was in bad taste, I’d go all out.

I’ve seen the error of my ways.

Night x

The only thing that this thread is good for is the shock revelation that elfin is a bourgeois capitalist running dog!

Just leave it, TSY.

Yeah just leave it. What do any of you hope to gain from a stupid pointless argument about politics or some other bullshit?

Jeeze, some poor man lost his life cos two messed up human beings went crazy. Why?

No need for all the ego crap. Just leave this one alone ffs.

Before this thread descends into any more flippant remarks, I would like to emphasis just how horrific and tragic I think this story is. I was truly seething with anger when I read it. It’s hard to imagine a more utterly senseless and barbaric act. And it’s for those reasons that homophobia should never be tolerated. This might represent an extreme example, but the hatred which lead to it, will have been built up slowly over many years.

+1.

Well said Elfinsafety and Ernie-lynch, the reason i posted this story was to show homophobia is still all around us,its like a serious cancer thats affecting society and its in all parts and needs to be cut out.

This happened in a major tourist location, a place you would expect quite a few Police, security cameras etc,along with a lot of people to step in and try to apprehend or stop the ones responsible.

I feel so sorry for the chaps partner and his family, freinds, but its only by educaton and prison terms that this sort of think may be stopped.

Without wanting to get into the socio-political analysis, does anyone else think that, based on the sketchy account in the article, the young bloke got a bit of a shafting here?

If I didn’t see the lead up to this confrontation and just saw a older man grabbing aggressively at a teenager’s handbag then I might have “ran up and knocked him to the ground” too.

the young bloke got a bit of a shafting here

Considering the context, do you want to re-phrase that ?

Sadly it’s another example of why alcohol legislation needs to change. I don’t pretend to know the answer, but perhaps a combination of raising the minimum age (USA-style 21 perhaps) and definitely raising the minimum price (more than the joke legislation the govt has recently put forward).

GrahamS – Member
Without wanting to get into the socio-political analysis, does anyone else think that, based on the sketchy account in the article, the young bloke got a bit of a shafting here?

If I didn’t see the lead up to this confrontation and just saw a older man grabbing aggressively at a teenager’s handbag then I might have “ran up and knocked him to the ground” too.

No, he caused injury that led to death so manslaughter is right. Ignorance is no defence.

No, he caused injury that led to death so manslaughter is right. Ignorance is no defence.

Ignorance of the context is. If stumbled on the situation and thought that the girl was being attacked/mugged then he can use reasonable force to protect her. And, in my opinion, punching someone once is reasonable force as you would not expect that to cause them major harm.

Only seven and six years for that… for **** sake.

Well said Elfinsafety and Ernie-lynch, the reason i posted this story was to show homophobia is still all around us,its like a serious cancer thats affecting society and its in all parts and needs to be cut out.

You seem to have forgotten to mention why you tried to suggest that society “down there” was complicit.

Idiotic comment.

Appalling incident. The sentencing (based on that report) does not seem very fair. Thomas not only appears to have instigated the incident but then stamped repeatedly on the victims head as he lay unconscious….. and yet the court has stated that the single blow (and subsequent fall to pavement) was the cause of death!!!

All that, and despite the fact that she has ‘previous’ for assault only earned her a sentence of 1 more year. Wouldn’t have anything to do with the fact that Daddy could presumably afford a good lawyer, would it?

Disgraceful IMO.

glenp – Member

Idiotic comment.

Posted 37 minutes ago # Report-Post

yes yours.

…but its only by educaton and prison terms that this sort of think may be stopped.

Just for the record, the boy went to my school in Crystal Palace. One of the top academies in the UK, and the first to achieve OFSTED ‘Outstanding’ in all areas.

…does anyone else think that, based on the sketchy account in the article, the young bloke got a bit of a shafting here?

I suspect that the judge based his decision on something other than a ‘sketchy account in a BBC news article’.

I’m sure the trial looked at all the evidence in great detail, including eye witness accounts that Ruby Thomas was screaming homophobic insults.

Indeed I’m sure the vague reporting is to blame here, but we don’t know what his defence was or at what point he got involved in the incident. It doesn’t even indicate if Joel was with her, knew her or was just passing by.

Even the headline seems a bit unfair: “Pair jailed for Trafalgar Square homophobic killing” but nothing in the story to provide evidence that his motive was homophobic.

Based on what has been reported, she should have got a lot longer than him. As Woody says, she has a record, she stirred it up, she used the homophobic insults and she stamped on the poor guys head. Seems odd for Joel to get a similar sentence for throwing one punch.

Why does his age matter? A 20yr old was murdered last night in bournemouth, is that less horrific becuase he was younger?.

In the early hours of New Years Day a mate of mines cousin (24) went out for a kebab, he never came back, some drunk oik beat him to death in the street.

The oik is being done for murder and I think this pair should have too.

It doesn’t even indicate if Joel was with her, knew her or was just passing by.

Yes, Joel Alexander was a friend and was with her when the incident took place :

“Ruby Thomas and Rachel Burke, both 18, stamped on Ian Baynham’s chest and kicked him in the head after their friend Joel Alexander, 19, punched him to the ground, jurors heard.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7608934/Clockwork-Orange-killers-beat-gay-man-to-death-court-hears.html

I think you need to trust the judge in cases like this.

Why does his age matter? A 20yr old was murdered last night in bournemouth, is that less horrific becuase he was younger?.

..or not gay? TBH, the kind of idiot who picks fights in the street probably isn’t homphobic, but is just looking for an excuse, and whether that’s sexual orientation, skin colour, weight, doesn’t really matter.
yes, it’s a horrific murder, but the focus should be on the alcolhol part, not the sexuality

Joel Alexander was a friend and was with her when the incident took place

Fair enough, as I said it was as much a commentary on how vague the BBC report was.

The Telegraph report doesn’t seem to implicate Joel Alexander in any of the homophobic bits either though. In fact it seems to suggest that he only stepped in when Mr Baynham struck Ruby Thomas:

‘Mr Baynham grabbed and slapped her. Alexander intervened and lunged at him, punching him in the face. He fell to the ground.

which still sounds like it would be justifiable as “defence”.

Very strange. And all a bit sad really, such a waste of lives all round. 🙁

Killed by an ex-public school girl, says a lot for public schools.

Ernie you are damaged in some way aren’t you. Just let it go.

The boy also had previous and was on bail(natch) at the time of the attack.