Because of hideous reliability and occasionally dubious data quality?

Reliability issues yeah dubious data ??? Said this a million times I had pretty much unlimited access to SRAM lab at one time all the data from that (4+tests) correlated exactly with my stages & as my fitness changed across the season all lab tests & real time use was the same.

I recently got a stage gxp from merlin £365 – buzzin…why spend more?

I know quite a few testers who have had Stages. Some have had dubious data quality (usually consistent over-reading, some faffing with the calibration kit seemed to help a little but then it’d drift out again.) All have had reliability issues. Most have got their money back and brought something else, often having already had two or three replacement units from Stages.

Hope they have this sorted with the new unit.

dubious data

My Stages does spike up to 2000W once every 4 or 5 months and it’s a known fault… but true, there nothing poor about the data that stops you “training” effectively

Because of hideous reliability and occasionally dubious data quality

Not sure where the dubious data comment is coming from. Data is more than good enough for training and that’s what you want them for.

Reliability has been another matter, but the latest one I’ve had has been out in all weathers and still going strong. In fact, I’ve stopped worrying about it now – which means it’ll go an break now that I’ve written that!

dubious data quality (usually consistent over-reading

Consistently over-reading is not really a problem unless you have other devices and they all give slight different readings anyway. Consistency is the key word here.

Consistently over-reading is not really a problem unless you have other devices and they all give slight different readings anyway. Consistency is the key word here.

You are right to an extent. Though I have 3 different power meters and regularly check them against each other. And quite a few of those I know have multiple PM’s too and do the same. Not unusual for them to be a few watts between them, but a few tens of watts and that starts to shake your confidence in the data being displayed.

My new one is currently useless anyway unless I find the pedal I took off the warranty one, which you would have thought is kept in a safe place… like the bike/tool box where all the bike stuff goes 🙁 😕

I have had 2000watts from the XTR which at first I put down to pedal strike then I rethought it & realised no, the power meter doesn’t lie 🙂

Touch wood, I’ve got 2 and both have been spot on – data looks consistent when compared to a powertap I had

I ended up getting Vector 2 as Wiggle now price match the German stores, so paid £850 all in. Really pleased with them so far but the pods still appear fragile so care needs to be taken when clipping in.

took the plunge on the INpower from rotor for my Pivot, seems a neat package, better than my P2M, will see how data compares across the two different bikes.

Hmmm. I’m in a bit of a quandary. I would like a power meter, but don’t want to spend too much. I use Campagnolo gear, so have a carbon crankset, which rules out many options, and I don’t want to switch over to Shimano or SRAM – just too much money. So that leaves a hub meter or pedals… a Powertap hub is about £600, and then I’d have to build it up, which is quite a bit of money / hassle, so I’m not keen on that. So that leaves pedals. Powertap P1 seem to be the best, but they only do twin set-ups, which are £1000. Seems that they are unlikely to do a left-only option, since they already have the cheaper end covered with the C1.. except for people with Campagnolo. So that leaves Vectors or BePro. BePro are nice and cheap, but a bit of an unknown quantity long term, and that ‘pod’ bit seems to be getting bashed up a lot from being a bit in the way of shoes. Vectors are expensive, though they’ve just had a price drop in the US. Hopefully that’ll make its way here, but I don’t see it so far. Left-only Vector 2s is $700 in the US, which is pretty reasonable once you add in a 10% discount from e.g. Clever Training.

So… does anyone know how Garmin tend to support units bought from another country? If I got one from the US and had issues with it, would Garmin UK help me? Anyone know how likely it is that the price drop will head over here?

I ended up getting Vector 2 as Wiggle now price match the German stores, so paid £850 all in. Really pleased with them so far but the pods still appear fragile so care needs to be taken when clipping in.

Had them for over a year now and used a lot. Not had any problems with any sort of fragility (and mine are the original vectors.) They aren’t really in the way when clipping in if installed properly, at least IME. The only time I ever give them consideration is when leaning my bike against stuff just to make sure there’s no weight against the pod.

took the plunge on the INpower from rotor for my Pivot, seems a neat package, better than my P2M, will see how data compares across the two different bikes.

Curious, how better than the P2M?

Anyone know how likely it is that the price drop will head over here?

You can get a 2S from the Germans for £550 which seems a pretty good deal to me (and sounds like Wiggle will match that if you want to buy from the UK – though I’d stump up the extra 300 quid and get both sides like bigdugsbaws did.) Taking sales tax into consideration if buying in the US then there’s probably not much in it. If you’re importing from the US then the Germans are probably cheaper.

I’m curious as to why people are so concerned about having both sides. Assuming that you have no asymmetrical injuries / pathology that you’re trying to monitor or correct, surely a one-sided measurement is good enough. Sure, if you’re consistently 45/55 balanced then the total power estimated will be about 10% out, but it’s presumably quite unlikely that you’ll be 55% R one day and then 55% L the next? So your total measurements will be consistent, and broadly accurate. Also, from what I can tell without having tried it, the pedalling dynamics stuff is mildly interesting but not necessarily useful. So… what do you do with both sides that you couldn’t do with one?

Thanks, and sorry if it sounds like I’m arguing – I’m not, I’m genuinely curious because I can’t see how the extra is worth £300. I appreciate the info from people here with actual experience of this stuff…!

I can think of only one situation that it (dual sided PM) would be useful for me and that’s when doing individual leg exercises on the turbo trainer: you’d get power output for one side but not the other, actually a 100% difference in power between left and right! 😕

That’s about it Gray. I think a lot of it comes down to no-one really having any idea how L/R balance changes over time or over the course of a ride with fatigue for example. It is more being a little skeptical of an unknown rather than some known problem if that makes sense? I have always been a consistent 49/51 so it’s not something that bothers me. That said, you have to consider that the current Stages prices and current P2M prices for example make it quite difficult to justify a Stages.

I can think of only one situation that it (dual sided PM) would be useful for me and that’s when doing individual leg exercises on the turbo trainer: you’d get power output for one side but not the other, actually a 100% difference in power between left and right!

Simple. Use the same trainer resistance setting for both legs and keep the speed the same a la Trainerroad Virtual Power.

@DanW Actually I meant when using TrainerRoad and the reported power. You could revert to virtual power for those sessions.

You don’t *need* to. Only if you want some power numbers recorded which isn’t a big deal for how well you are actually “training”. The speed data for that interval will tell you how well it went for each leg so there is still a record to evaluate post session

For me even that’s not an issue on the turbo trainer since I’d be seeing the trainer’s power data, and indeed TrainerRoad would be controlling the trainer’s resistance to keep it on target. I’ve no burning desire to do single leg efforts on the road. I understand the point about not knowing whether your left-right balance will shift either short-term with fatigue / stress or longer-term, but it seems most likely to me that it won’t shift dramatically.

I did read one review where the reviewer wrote that they wondered if they had been subconsciously pushing harder with their left leg to get better numbers. I can’t see me doing that though, out on the road.

I have a dual sided and a Stages. I see no tangible benefit to having both, other than fleeting interest in pedalling balance. Consistently 45/55 here.

I have a couple of dual sided ones and had a Vector single sided too before I doubled up with another pedal. My balance does vary quite a bit between 50/50 and about 43/57 depending on fatigue and how hard I’m pushing. So for threshold type intervals a single LHS can under-read by up to around 20 watts. Which is quite a lot.

Interesting, thanks very much all.

Just noticed on the Rose Bikes website that they’ve got the Garmin Vector 2’s on special for today only at £706 if anyone’s looking for a set.

http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/garmin-vector-2-pedal-based-powermeter/aid:813844

Gnnnnrggh! That’s a good price, but it’s still a lot of money to put some numbers on your Garmin..!

Tempted to pick up another pair for the turbo bike at that price to replace the powertap 😕

£688 by the Euro price according to Google! Still think I’d prefer P1s, tempted though!

I just splurged on a Powertap GS hub – on sale for £399 here:

http://www.cyclepowermeters.com//powertap-gs-3013-p.asp

Need to get a rim and spokes of course, but that’ll still come out pretty cheap relatively speaking…

Just need to choose a rim now!

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/11/limits-meter-really.html

Oooofffft!!

Gotta love dcrainmaker!

So much kudos to the guy

Seems pretty fair given where they are. Doesn’t instil confidence!

I just splurged on a Powertap GS hub – on sale for £399 here:

do you want the direct phone number for Paligap?

i don’t think i can ever recall an article as scathing as that on DC Rainmaker

Re the powertap GS. Give it a good going over before build it up. Picked up a cheap one about a year ago then just couldn’t get it to pair reliably. Annoyingly this was after I’d built it up into a wheel. Sent it back in the end and got some Vectors.

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/11/limits-meter-really.html
Oooofffft!!

Seems a pretty fair assessment. Their updates have been regular but very “fluffy”. Which was sort of fair enough at the outset, but they haven’t got very much more real as they go on.

Given what they have shown so far, I don’t see how they can remotely realistically expect to ship in 2015. If I take what I know of getting version 1 software products “done” and extrapolate for the complexities of hardware, they would be more or less shipping first production units from manufacturer to customer to hit the date and as the article points out, that glosses over a whole heap of product validation cycles/challenges.

My 2 cents. Garmin Vector 2 on my road bike. Lovely, never let me down and works rain and shine. High recommend it.

Stages XT (Gen 1) on my MTB. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! On my second one, since June, the first one never worked when I really needed it to and probably about to warranty my second one as the tabs broke and water got into it on my Sunday ride. Only realized the tab was broken after my ride. Had gotten a low pm battery warning towards the end of the ride. I also duct tape up around the cover to be safe. It did not look wet/damp so just swapped battery and calibrated. Had got a new cover from the local Evans
It stopped working on my way to work the next day. Left it to dry at home with cover off and it seems to have come back to life. For how long?
There service is great, by the way cant fault that.
But for peace of mind and knowing that it will work every time I climb on the bike, 0 confidence. Its always a ‘Ah look its working today moment!’. 🙁
I will push to get the Gen2 on the warranty and wish I had gone with Power 2 Max. Trawling the forum at Rainmaker it is well rated and rock solid reliable for MTB. The electronics are completely encased in plastic. You can fry the battery with water but not lose the meter.
Buy cheap buy twice!

Thanks for the advice all – I’ll try and test the Powertap GS (as much as I can) before building it up. Maybe even before ordering a rim and spokes. Hub is hopefully being sent out today, and I’m in no crazy rush to be using it so I’ve got time to fiddle once it arrives.

Thanks for the advice all – I’ll try and test the Powertap GS (as much as I can) before building it up. Maybe even before ordering a rim and spokes.

Wish I’d done that. At least the rim was still put to good use.

Stages XT (Gen 1) on my MTB. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! On my second one, since June, the first one never worked when I really needed it to and probably about to warranty my second one as the tabs broke and water got into it on my Sunday ride. Only realized the tab was broken after my ride. Had gotten a low pm battery warning towards the end of the ride. I also duct tape up around the cover to be safe. It did not look wet/damp so just swapped battery and calibrated. Had got a new cover from the local Evans
It stopped working on my way to work the next day. Left it to dry at home with cover off and it seems to have come back to life. For how long?
There service is great, by the way cant fault that.
But for peace of mind and knowing that it will work every time I climb on the bike, 0 confidence. Its always a ‘Ah look its working today moment!

I’ve had my XTR M980 Stages for a year. Initial issues were broken tab related. Latest firmware seemed to make a big difference. Have had occasional issues with batteries needing to be reseated (wonder how many good batteries I threw away) which makes me wonder if there are size tolerances at play in battery brands

I’ve just bought a second one at clearance to avoid so much swapping. I have 4 XTR M980 cranksets, don’t plan on changing and find the Stages solution the neatest way to train and race with power. Most of the other solutions involve chainsets I don’t want to use.

105 5700 Stages is a decent price at Evans, choice of ex display but new at £337 or box fresh for £359

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/stages/power-meter-shimano-105-5700-175mm-ex-display–ec123662

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/stages/power-meter-shimano-105-5700-ec055152

Hmm would love one for my winter bike. Any problem with a 5700 fitting to a 5800 chainset?

I see Merlin has dropped the rival version to 340 as well.

Just waiting for Xtr to drop to closer to 350ish. Got to be on the cards.

I’m running 7900 on 9000 if it helps

Bought a 5700 from Evans a few weeks ago, they were £415.

They’re 1st gen models not the 2nd gen shown if that matters…