Alex has broken one foil. This foil is a mini wing underwater, lifting the boat up and pushing it back upright against the wind.

A bit like a running with a flattish tyre on a rally car…..goes round one corner well, but the othe way is awful.

The boats (New generation) have a foil (like a daggerboard) either side of the beam (middle section of the boat, just in front of the cockpit, just behind the mast) These foils are deployed when on either tack, they “dig” into the water when healed over – so Starboard Foil = deployed on Starboard tack, and as they are shaped like an airplane wing provide “lift” and also act as a stabiliser. The last Gen boats had similar but the just went up/down in roughly the same position and did a similar job, these new Gen foils not only go up/down but in/out so theres more tuning available.. think of them like stabilisers on a bike… fit them close the the rear wheel and there is less stability, fit them further out and theres more.. the lift element helps the boat track cleaner and higher tot he wind thus sailing better VMG (cleaner wind angles)

Alex lost his Starboard foil about a week ago when he hit something submerged, it broke off and now he’s only go the Port one. In the film you can see the Port foil in the air as Alex is on Stb tack, so he should have the Starboard foil in the water, but it isn’t there.. this means he can’t sail quite as stable nor high. Actually you can see the boat roll around in the clip.. whilst this is probably due to the sea state as much as anything, you would expect a smoother pitch and yaw with the foil deployed.
He does make comment about it in the clip..

It in French, but you get the gist.

Ignore – cross-post with bikebuoy’s
(however, “le ballast” – that diagram makes it look like it’s mobile and has been shifted to the “useful” side, or is that just omitting the left side for simplicité ?

(must be massive force going through those things – hard (or else biggish motors?) to set/lock/trim ?)

Alex has broken on foil

you mean the “outriggery-looking”, bright green thing under the water ? What’s it/they do – prevent excess angulation ? Is that why he’s at about 50 degrees ?! (or is it the other side that’s gone)

“foil” implies lift to me (though I guess downforce is just the reverse – or does it lift the entire hull to reduce drag?)

Hugo Boss looks over canvassed to me and slower than Banque Populaire

It was my first thought too however these boats are designed to sail more heeled than a typical boat (part of reason for twin rudder) and perhaps Alex has had to adjust the “mode” further due to the foil loss ? Also as I watched it agin (longer clip on AT facebook ?) most of the time Boss is pretty flat, only seems to be in bigger puffs she heels right up.

Re the heel thats certainly a lesson I learnt (and mistake repeated) that its often faster to reduce sail and keep the boat a bit flatter – hull shape more efficient and leeway (going sideways) reduced. Sailing shorthanded its easy to get lazy and try and “hang on” to the sails you have up, These guys are tough and very disciplined at sail changes / reefing main. They’ll have a very good feel for matching configurations depending on wind speed and angle, waves etc. We used to have a card we’d drawn up they’ll have it electronically too as part of routing software.

Overcanvassed or not (and I’d agree that was a lot of heel), he’s doing a great job of hanging on to Le Cleach and has now reduced the gap to under 8 miles! That’s close racing after almost 10,000 miles, and another 15,000 to go!

That footage is frankly incredible, proper goosebumps on the back of my neck stuff.

I wonder if Alex was heeled over so far for dramatic effect and to look good on tv? He certainly gives ‘BOSS’ a good showing 🙂

And related to the previously unanswered question – do these boats have mobile ballast that can be pumped from side to side?

Yes they have water ballast

And that video proves Alex doesn’t have his starboard foil (some people were suggesting mind games)

I’m sure he has lost his SB foil, but I’m not sure that you could prove it from the footage. It’ll be interesting to see the stump.

Has gone over the edge to saw it off yet? To be that sounded unnecessary – surely just retract the stump in to the hull. Another example of Alex ‘bigging it up for the media’?. Still gets mucho respect from me though.

We all know that a gust of >10knts will make the boat heel over, add sea state and waves and you get the effect Alex shows, however I think because of the lost foil he is intentionally heeling it over to dig the chine in the water to aid “lift”.

Great footage, love the conversations between Armel and Alex and the Navy..

I’m sure he has lost his SB foil, but I’m not sure that you could prove it from the footage. It’ll be interesting to see the stump

My thought was whether the bow would be burying so much if he had the lift from a stbd foil

Most of the footage Boss is not that heeled. Only the bit when he’s on deck and with the flag (absolutely brilliant imo 🙂 that will be THE image/video of the event if he wins and maybe anyway)

Yes they have water ballast, quite complex with a number of tanks so they can trim side/side and fore and aft. The Spaniard had a pipe burst/leak which flooded his electrics just after the start. Have sailed a bit on a Class 40 (sort of a mini Open 60) with water ballast and it’s damn effective.

Do they need fuel to pump ballast or can they use the forward motion of the boat in some way to drive another pump?

**Video Update Onboard HUGO BOSS** After having a brief encounter with a French navy helicopter this morning Alex is in high spirits and is looking forward to be back on starboard tackt and with fair winds eat up Voile Banque Populaire's lead.#VG2016 #OceanMasters #SailSurviveSucceed

Posted by Alex Thomson Racing on Wednesday, November 30, 2016

😀 The guy is a star ! I am sure this is on a website somewhere

@will these boats buy the bow quite a bit, its a result of a design choice (reducing boyancy (size) in the bow). They all have these covered cockpits now as they know the amount of water on deck will be huge. You can see how much Boss buried the bow (and slowed down) on the footage, I shudder to think of the loads on everything inc rig when that happens

Here is some footage of a differemt sort of boat (symetrical spinnaker with higher center of effort – Figaro 2 ??) training, these Vendee boats are designed to avoid that

https://www.facebook.com/sailingmotoryachts/videos/339578953091177/

In the videos on the first page, the sailor was showing how he could move all the food ,stores and sleeping area from side to side for ballast.
He did say a tack would take a hour due to moving everything around, changing foils etc.

That explains a lot, thanks. That Boss boat looks incredible

Leffe yes they have pumps but tend to use gravity too on a tack, ie drop the water before they tack. The quantities of water are pretty large. Trying to pump that uphill after tacking would be very difficult. Water is heavy, 1m3 weights a mteric ton. Note the teams don’t discuss the specific layouts, systems etc and generally will not allow photos of the insides of the boats.

Alex in fist place 🙂 made a better job of timing his gybe in my very humble and amateur opinion.

How did he get back in first? I thought he was still 30 behind?

edit:i misread 1m3 as 1.3m3. Slaps head

Are they carrying 3 months of fresh water as well? The more you look at this the crazier it gets

They carry water makers / desalination pumps.

And the water ballast can be used for drinking water as it’s purified.. a safety measure ..

Food though, nah that’s all there is.

I remember that days when the Ice Exclusion Zone wasn’t in place, ohhh the days of the Whitbread ( Volvo ) Ocean Race hacking into the roaring 40’s through the Ice fields.. I have a signed original painting of Maiden from Tracey hanging in my hallway with her and her crew onboard, and Amanda still makes bags at PigBags.. 😀

Great bits of video. The main move able mass is the keel, that water helps but I think is also about trim, rather than just pure righting moment

I’m still enjoying the game but the free version is showing its limits near the ice exclusion zone. Last night I went to bed think I had until 10:00 the next day to gybe. I got to the PC 3 hours early but was only 1 hour from being disqualified.

So tonight I’m sailing at a slightly less good angle to make sure i don’t cross the line. But the aim is to learn and see if i still stick with it. I’ll buy all they toys for the Volvo if I continue to enjoy it

@ampthill – you’re still doing better than me 😕

I think I’m now about 300 miles behind – lets see how it goes!

My current tip for down wind sailing when the goal is make as much ground East as possible

Use something like a post card with a right angle to form a vertical line on the screen (I’m on a PC monitor). Adjust your heading to see which gives the greatest distance traveled East. Use the vertical edge to evaluate this. Check both gybes

From memory of dinghy sailing is that if the wind is continually changing direction we get a good tack (or gybe) and a bad tack. I think the rule is bad tack then good tack. I think that this is because it makes the good tack longer.

nickb KAPOOW SAILING? We both seem to be cutting through the fleet. To many people sailing straight down wind?

Always take the loss early in the manoeuvre, take the hit for the shortest time possible then tack/gybe.

Alex still slightly ahead at 15nm, but neither have gybed yet.

Ice exclusion. Indeed if you go back to the days of Ellen the footage going through the bergs was pretty scary

Vendee Live had Tanguy and Mark Turner (Volvo CEO / shoreteam mgr for Ellen) he said currently Boss has no significant disadvantage as we are not really in foiling conditions (those will come after Cape Horn ?) and he suggested Alex’s strategy will be to push Armel faster than he may really want to go and hope he makes a mistake or breaks something. After all that time trying to convince people he is not crazy maybe now is the time he is trying to donthe opposite 🙂

Update from Alex with BP in sight

*Video Update Onboard HUGOBOSS*Neck and neck with Voile Banque Populaire! Alex is waiting and looking forward to starboard tack! #VG2016 #OceanMasters #MB #SailSurviveSucceed #starboardtack

Posted by Alex Thomson Racing on Saturday, December 3, 2016

Alex seems to be going for a bit if a split, higher and faster than Armel ?

Japanese entrant dismasted, lost the top. 40-50 front people are juggling with. Mainsail damage on another boat. Alex seemed to lose a lot then gain most back.

Belting down towards the Kerguelen islands at 25.6kts (which seems as fast as it’s possible to go according to the polars)….weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
On the 3d view….why do the waves always seem against me?I wanna SURF 😀

Alex seems to be going for a bit of a split, higher and faster than Armel ?

Maybe it was a spliff not a split as he’s 100 miles back now 😐

BP seems better placed to dive South too if that pays (kink in the ice exclusion zone)

Shorter distance in that bit of the zone, even if the winds slightly less it’s worth dropping.

Seb Josse has bowled down a wave and hit the next one very badly and has backed off to inspect damage, another competitor has backed off too and heading for Cape Town..

These boys are hard as nails … major keel damage, boat likely to sink and Kito is making a video and sending it !

[video]http://youtu.be/BgGbcdXT2tg[/video]

Not looking good is it.

Keel off, ‘significant ingress of water’ 40 knot winds, 5-6m swells and asking to be rescued.

http://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/16889/huge-concern-for-the-skipper-kito-de-pavanthttp://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/16889/huge-concern-for-the-skipper-kito-de-pavant

“I hit something hard with the keel. It was a violent shock and the boat came to a standstill. The rear bearings of the keel were ripped off and the keel is hanging under the boat kept in place simply by the keel ram, which is in the process of cutting through the hull… The keel housing has been destroyed and there is a huge ingress of water there, but for the moment, it is limited to the engine compartment. I currently have forty knots of wind and 5-6m high waves. The boat is stopped. I brought down the mainsail so that she is heeling less. The situation has been stabilised for the moment. I have my survival kit alongside me. Someone is going to have to come and get me. I am trying to contact the Marion Dufresne to ask them to come here.”

[edit] Missed the update:

http://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/16913/kito-de-pavant-aboard-the-marion-dufresne

Zut alors…..

Let’s hope this ends well, he is about as far from outside help as you can get.

Amen for supply ships…

I remember the 1st gen Volvo 60’s having the same issues with keels BITD, and IIRC there should be a lock mechanism to jam the keel in one position to stop it flapping around, clearly that’s not working in this case.

Mike Golding turned around to pick up Alex in the 06′ version of this race when Alex’s keel fell off and inverted….

Crazy, but I love em’ for it.

The rear bearings of the keel were ripped off and the keel is hanging under the boat kept in place simply by the keel ram,

It’s a bit beyond a simple ram failure bb.

Yes, the early swinging keels had ram failures which allows the keel to continually swing and eventually destroy the keel box. They seem to have sorted the ram systems now.
This issue is seemingly that the keel has been ripped off the front bearing – it’s now held on by the rear bearing and the ram which could fail at any time and then it’s time for a swim 🙁

Scary stuff. He cant load it up by sailing closer to safety so he’s just got to sit there and wait.
Sad that such an amazing boat will be allowed to die but then this isn’t a round the cans race.

And…

Seb Josse has retired from the race, about 15mins ago the team announced his retirement but without a reason, yet.

Awe, more than a race of attrition, it’s becoming a demolition derby.