Me, yesterday morning cycling to work 🙄
Turning right at a junction and almost took out another cyclist while blinded by the low sun 😳
SMIDSY!

My default position it to ‘jump’ them unless there’s an ASL

+1

I’m the same, I ‘jump’ them pretty much all the time. BUT I dont actually cross the junction while they’re on red, I just like to stop as far in-front of the ASL as I can before I get into the junction itself. Gives me a much bigger head start, and probably lessens the irritation factor of all the drivers who I have just filtered past.

Well aware people may not necessarily agree with what I do, however I simply do not care. I do what I believe keeps ME safe. Simples. 🙂

EDIT: not really sure any of this is anything to do with the point of the OP though!

Last week met a group of road cyclists (presumably a club), riding 3 wide on a busy A road, on a straight (which is one of the few on the road where it is safe to pass anything), whilst there is harvesting going on all around and a lot of machinery on the roads – no consideration for any other road users at all.

Not sure I understand this point at all – are you saying that roadies riding 3 abreast are wider and slower than a combine harvester or a tractor with a thresher attached?

Why single file? Do we really think it’s reasonable for cyclists on a busy A road that you can safely maintain 60mph on to restrict motorists to travelling at 20mph? Particularly on roads with limited overtaking opportunities.

Yes. (Though obviously it would be considerate if they pulled in once in a while to let the cars go).

Why would riding single file improve that exactly, unless you are also suggesting the cyclists should ride in the gutter to allow cars to squeeze past without changing lanes?

IF cars plan to overtake cyclists properly, moving completely into the other lane, like this:

Then surely it is far easier to overtake two cyclists riding next to each other, rather than performing that overtake twice?

core – Member

Why single file? Do we really think it’s reasonable for cyclists on a busy A road that you can safely maintain 60mph on to restrict motorists to travelling at 20mph? Particularly on roads with limited overtaking opportunities.

If it was said tractor above, or some old dear doing 20mph they’d get overtaken and/or abused by most people.

Just because you’re on a bike it doesn’t give you the right to do what you like, I’m always very mindful when I’m on the road that I don’t impede motorists, I don’t like inconsiderate cyclists, so don’t want to be one.

you may (or may not) have a point, but making single-file riding the law? – really?! you want to see a law debated, and passed, and enforced?

what would the extent of the law be? – i can show you roads where you won’t see a car for hours.

if the problem you percieve is that cyclists are ‘holding up’ cars, then what about passing a law banning cars from the road between 7 and 9am? – there’s too many of them, they move too slowly, they slow me down and they’re difficult to overtake.

they never pull over to let me past, and they definitely don’t pay any road tax…

Ok here’s mine.
People riding down a one way street, the wrong way. There a couple of regular offenders round my way, tend to see them at various points on my walk home, so know their route. The stupid thing is, they ride to the end of the one way bit where it joins up with the correct one way bit anyway. So why bother putting yourselves and others at risk and just ride the correct route?

There’s a woman who I see regularly, ALWAYS pushing her bike, NEVER riding it. Must be some sort of sadistic punishment.

The worst was a man who rode down a pedestrian precinct with two young-ish kids on bikes also. The precinct which changes into a one way street (opposite direction to the way he was travelling), man then stops, waits for a sec and then ushers the kids forwards down the one way street. Its narrow with a pinch point and has quite a few buses going along it. Feckless moron.

if the problem you percieve is that cyclists are ‘holding up’ cars, then what about passing a law banning cars from the road between 7 and 9am? – there’s too many of them, they move too slowly, they slow me down and they’re difficult to overtake.

they never pull over to let me past, and they definitely don’t pay any road tax… applauds

This was on the Wylam Waggonway last week.
*I only mention this because I thought it might be one of the STW crowd

Not me. I don’t have those skills even if I thought it was a good idea 😀

I do regularly see a yoof on the Waggonway who rides along wearing headphones, with both hands typing away on his blackberry, staring fixedly at the screen. 😯

It’s an impressive feat of urban circus skills, but not really a good idea on a potholed shared use path with children, dogs and wildlife around.

Possibly the same chap as I pass most mornings, trendy-in-the-nineties white jumper and tracky bottoms by any chance? If so, he hit the patch where tree roots have pushed up the tarmac just past newburn bridge and crashed into the trees the other morning. Most amusing.

he hit the patch where tree roots have pushed up the tarmac just past newburn bridge and crashed into the trees the other morning. Most amusing.

😆

Saturday night, singletrack road in Oxfordshire. Some dickhead cyclist with stupidly bright lights gets an attack of conscience as he passes a cottage, “dips” the beam with his right hand as he comes to a tight bend, sees the stream ford too late, bit too much back brake on the dust and gravel, back end goes, grazed cheek, knuckle and elbow and big gouge out of the knee.

The bloody fruitloop’s hammocking in the woods, and turns out he doesn’t have those baby wipes after all, so decides not to look too closely. Hammock up, sleep, wake up, knee sticking to (new) sleeping bag, blood all over the mosi net, looks a but gruesome. Sock held onto wound with shock cord, off to find a medical centre.

The couple of people in the cycling club I ride with who stop in the middle of the road at junctions, stop in the middle of the road at the top of a blind hill, never move into single file when there’s a car behind etc. Takes zero effort on the cyclist’s part to be sensible and yet creates a lot of anti-cycling resentment from drivers.
Basically there are idiots out there, whether they choose to transport themselves by car or bike has no bearing on their behaviour.

never move into single file when there’s a car behind etc

So they don’t make it more difficult for the car behind to overtake?

Good on them.

I really don’t get this whole “car drivers are worse so don’t criticise cyclists” thing.

No I don’t get it either. I don’t get where anybody is suggesting that. What some people including me are suggesting is that resources are better spent on improving driver behaviour than cyclist behaviour as that’s where the road safety benefits are to be made – that’s not exactly the same thing is it?

I suspect you’ve spent a long time in that America, where ‘pants’ means underpants. Here in the UK, pants are long trousers.

I suspect you’ve spent a long time under that rock, as the truth is the exact opposite to what you claim.

I like this guy.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3nMnr8ZirI[/video]

aracer – No I don’t get it either. I don’t get where anybody is suggesting that. What some people including me are suggesting is that resources are better spent on improving driver behaviour than cyclist behaviour as that’s where the road safety benefits are to be made – that’s not exactly the same thing is it?

No, I think that’s entirely fair enough. But I also think it’s wrong to suggest that all cyclists are entirely blameless, or that there’s no value to be had in encouraging safer and more responsbile riding.

No I don’t get it either. I don’t get where anybody is suggesting that. What some people including me are suggesting is that resources are better spent on improving driver[b]Road User[/b] behaviour than cyclist behaviour as that’s where the road safety benefits are to be made – that’s not exactly the same thing is it?

More education needs to be given to everyone who uses the road.

Anecdotally my experience is that a greater proportion of cyclists are idiots than car drivers.

Yesterday along an A road going out of town a lad on a MTB with slicks riding right in the gutter which encourages drivers to go past like he wasn’t there. Except every so often he would randomly swerve into the middle of the road without looking. I sat behind him for a few hundred metres and there was a car coming the other way waiting to turn right across us. The cyclist just stopped and waved the car across my path. Really not clever.

Then early one Sunday morning I overtook a cyclist about 600m before a cross roads controlled by traffic lights. I was turning left so I indicated well before the junction where I was the only person waiting. the cyclist came up and sat in my blind spot on my left. The lights go green and I see him start to move so I wait to let him get clear before turning left. Then he starts to go left so I pull away to follow him, then he changes his mind and goes straight. I hit the anchors and just miss him. I get abuse. I was indicating left the whole time.

And if you have any doubt, try marshalling on a sportive. I was standing next to a roundabout on a busy dual carriageway. the riders were turning right onto the dual carriageway. Numerous times big groups were just steaming onto the roundabout without looking then riding along the dual carriageway taking up one and a half lanes. Then giving abuse to the motorists who were suggesting they should leave at least one lane for them to drive in.

Finally don’t get me started on the guys who go out at dusk wearing Sky kit on rural A roads. Darwinism in action.

I say this BTW as a slow, patient driver who also rides around 4000km a year on roads. And if I’m on a singletrack road and a car is sitting behind me I’ll frequently pull in and let them go. It’s called being considerate and I usually get a friendly wave as thanks. Far better than sticking to my rights and getting abuse for it.

My personal favorite is adults riding with little kids where they’ve put a helmet on the kid but don’t wear one themselves. Even when the kid is on a seat on the adult’s bike.
Firstly, what kind of an example is that? Say as I do…. And* what use are you to your child if you get knocked off your bike, have a head injury and so leave your child to care for you for the rest of your life.

*In fear of starting another ‘what use is a helmet’ debate, please ignore second point if necessary.

Anecdotally my experience is that a greater proportion of cyclists are idiots than car drivers.

So where are the rest of your anecdotes – you’ve only given us a couple? I see drivers doing idiotic things on a daily basis. Speeding, tailgating, passing too close.

Part of the whole problem is that drivers’ idiotic behaviour is accepted as the norm and ignored.

But I also think it’s wrong to suggest that all cyclists are entirely blameless, or that there’s no value to be had in encouraging safer and more responsbile riding.

Just so long as that doesn’t encourage drivers to think that it’s the cyclists who need training rather than them, and that such a campaign means the problem is solved and they don’t have to bother modifying their behaviour. Which would happen, wouldn’t it? Arguably such a campaign (if there was a formal one) could actually be counterproductive from a road safety perspective – these things just aren’t quite as simple as you think.

And if I’m on a singletrack road and a car is sitting behind me I’ll frequently pull in and let them go. It’s called being considerate and I usually get a friendly wave as thanks. Far better than sticking to my rights and getting abuse for it.

+1 & glad to know its not just me too

what use are you to your child if you get knocked off your bike, have a head injury and so leave your child to care for you for the rest of your life.

Do you also have the same issue with people driving cars without helmets whilst their kids are strapped into a seat which protects them?

please ignore second point if necessary.

Oh sorry.

Do you also have the same issue with people driving cars without helmets whilst their kids are strapped into a seat which protects them?

I think there is a big issue between having the right to do something and actually exercising that right…

My commute is down narrow lanes, which leave about an inch between a car and me. I have the right to take up as much space as the car and carry on but I am not going to do that when a car comes up behind me…not fair on them. So I slow down and move right over to allow them past…everyone is a winner.

I did do something stupid earlier though, coming down the outside of cars stopped at traffic lights (nothing coming the other way) just managed to sneak in front of car and turn off as it started moving off…massive mis judgement on my part and I got lucky…apologised to the driver and slunk off.

We all make mistakes, its the determination of cyclists to exercise their rights when it benefits no one that frustrates me. I.e. riding three abreast when a car comes up behind, takes two minutes to get in close single file and is safer for everyone.

The couple of people in the cycling club I ride with who stop in the middle of the road at junctions

Sounds like exactly the right thing to be doing tbh.

Anyone mentioned the idiots who spend thousands on bikes but don’t really know how to ride them? hmmmm…

iding three abreast when a car comes up behind, takes two minutes to get in close single file and is safer for everyone.

Are we talking about a normal width single carriageway road here? One where a car has to wait until nothing is coming the other way to cross onto the other side of the road to safely overtake single file cyclists? Three abreast is probably OTT on a lot of roads because it puts the furthest out cyclist in more danger when the car driver follows the HC and completely crosses the white line to overtake, but I’m struggling to see the disadvantage of two abreast for anybody (including the car driver who can overtake a two abreast group in less space than a group in single file).

Anyone mentioned the idiots who spend thousands on bikes but don’t really know how to ride them?

I think this thread is supposed to be about cyclists who aren’t on STW.

This guy

Man attacked by fellow cyclist

Here in the UK, pants are long trousers.

I just read all of the post and the thing that really got my goat was someone confusing American with our UK language. I wear my pants under my trousers. Trousers are long – i.e. they cover your legs. Long things worn on your legs when cycling that are tight are called ‘tights’. Things worn over your pants that are short are called ‘shorts’. Whatever next? My boot becomes ‘the trunk’, we lose the ability to spell words with the letter ‘u’ in them and we add ‘z’ where a ‘s’ used to be! Pass me some more of Mom’s home-made apple pie….

As for cyclist who are idiots – same for any other walk of life or sport – there are good ones and there are not so good ones and there are complete ‘d**kheads’.

One thing I have noticed though, more roadies are doffing their caps to us MTBers. And vice versa. Which is nice….

what use are you to your child if you get knocked off your bike, have a head injury and so leave your child to care for you for the rest of your life.

I think the point he’s making is that if you believe in the safety gear then use it yourself, “rather than when your older you won’t need one”

Do you also have the same issue with people driving cars without helmets whilst their kids are strapped into a seat which protects them?

The adult should wear a seatbelt also.

aracer –
Just so long as that doesn’t encourage drivers to think that it’s the cyclists who need training rather than them, and that such a campaign means the problem is solved and they don’t have to bother modifying their behaviour. Which would happen, wouldn’t it? Arguably such a campaign (if there was a formal one) could actually be counterproductive from a road safety perspective – these things just aren’t quite as simple as you think.

Well, I’m not proposing such a campaign – just saying I think it’s a bit short-sighted to say the blame for all cycle/vehicale incidents is entirely down to the driver, is all. The vast majority? Beyond a shadow of a doubt. But not all.

But I also think it’s wrong to suggest that all cyclists are entirely blameless,

Don’t think anyone has suggested that either. I’m saying it’s false to suggest that cyclists present a significant road safety hazard, and that’s a dangerous myth to keep repeating.

Anecdotally my experience is that a greater proportion of cyclists are idiots than car drivers.

But the accident stats show that in absolute terms, that “greater proportion” your experience has identified is a small problem.
From a quick scan of the anecdotes in this thread, the outcome of the bad behaviour reported appears to be generally no damage or minor self inflicted injuries.

My commute is down narrow lanes, which leave about an inch between a car and me… when a car comes up behind me…not fair on them. So I slow down and move right over to allow them past…everyone is a winner.

Provide they can safely pass with an inch to spare – otherwise no one is a winner!

I don’t think anyone here has suggested that you should never be courteous and allow cars to pass – but some of us suggest that should only happen on your terms, when it is safe for them to do so.

(So not by riding in the gutter and not by letting them squeeze by with an inch spare!)

Your safety should always be more important than their convenience.

just saying I think it’s a bit short-sighted to say the blame for all cycle/vehicale incidents is entirely down to the driver, is all. The vast majority? Beyond a shadow of a doubt. But not all.

I don’t think you’ll have any argument there – the stats certainly support that. The point remains that drivers are far, far more dangerous than cyclists, whatever the perception might be.

My commute is down narrow lanes, which leave about an inch between a car and me… when a car comes up behind me…not fair on them. So I slow down and move right over to allow them past…everyone is a winner.
Provide they can safely pass with an inch to spare – otherwise no one is a winner!

I don’t think anyone here has suggested that you should never be courteous and allow cars to pass – but some of us suggest that should only happen on your terms, when it is safe for them to do so.

(So not by riding in the gutter and not by letting them squeeze by with an inch spare!)

Your safety should always be more important than their convenience.

Yes sorry…. meant to imply slow down and pull in to increase the inch to a bit wider.

@aracer – I would go single file even on a wide dual lane road, vision of the road ahead is more important than the extra 2m or so but appreciate we this is a small point

Anecdotally my experience is that a greater proportion of cyclists are idiots than car drivers.

That’s because the wrongdoings of car drivers are completely internalised by society.

The significant majority of drivers break laws almost constantly. But it’s ignored because creeping over the speed limit or edging past that light as it turns red isn’t considered anything wrong.

Since I’ve been walking to work lately I’ll chip in with my two pence worth…

Its the morons that ride on the pavement when there’s a perfectly good road adjacent.

And not to mention the tit that ran a red light and came skidding to a halt as I was crossing the road. He didn’t look like much of a cyclist to me though wearing his sisters jeans and a pair of flip flops.

I would go single file even on a wide dual lane road, vision of the road ahead is more important than the extra 2m or so but appreciate we this is a small point

What advantage is it giving and to whom for you to single out on such a road? A main road I use a lot is wide enough for a car to pass a single cyclist safely without crossing the central white line, but probably not two riding side by side, but such road widths are a rarity so I presume you’re talking about a road where the car driver would still have to cross the central line after you’ve singled out. Who’s vision of the road ahead are you bothered about? The car driver behind ought to be able to see perfectly well past a couple of cyclists.

This is a real bugbear of mine as it’s one point where the HC is definitively wrong (I can only assume it’s advice was written by somebody who hadn’t thought the issue through any more than most people do). Was riding with my sister once and got stopped by a policeman for riding two abreast – we she successfully argued the point that it was safer to do so and he let us go on our way suitably educated.

it’s one point where the HC is definitively wrong

Not the only one though. Anyone think it is a good idea to cycle round roundabouts in left lane even if they are going right??

The Highway Code was written for motorists by motorists. The “other road users” advice is an afterthought at best and doesn’t agree with the best practises taught in Cyclecraft etc

I just read all of the post and the thing that really got my goat was someone confusing American with our UK language. I wear my pants under my trousers. Trousers are long – i.e. they cover your legs.

Where I grew up (in the UK), “trousers” are called pants.