There’s enough negativity from some quarters, without our own ranks adding fuel to the fire..

perhaps some peer pressure might help, closing ranks and looking after “our own” means condoning stupid & dangerous behaviour which is more detrimental to cycling’s public perception.

kcr – Member

Nice

In my defence I’ve never done it. So far.

Nothwind, if you do just make sure you collect them all.

Who in their right mind doesn’t just pop the bike back on the audi and drive between the trails….

I rode to the stone yard today with no helmet on and my right pant leg rolled up, on a road bike, and wore a black jacket and black jeans while doing so.

I thought you masons were supposed to keep it all secret?

In my defence

Why do you feel the need to defend yourself?

perhaps some peer pressure might help, closing ranks and looking after “our own” means condoning stupid & dangerous behaviour which is more detrimental to cycling’s public perception

I don’t think condemning cyclists’ behaviour makes any difference to the “anti cycling” brigade, and just confirms their prejudices. I think you need to tackle those prejudices head on and point out who is doing the real damage.
What do the stats show, something like 25000 KSIs in the UK last year and cyclist deaths up 10%? Somebody needs a bit of peer pressure for sure, but I don’t hear many people going around saying “those motorists don’t do themselves any favours”.

Very true KCR but cyclists love to play the does no wrong always innocent card. There are a few things going on here, bad/poor/inattentive driving, bad road design & cyclists doing stupid things. Fixing all of these is a big task. What this thread highlights is that cyclists are just like drivers etc. and sometimes do the wrong/stupid thing.

The anti cycling brigade are like any other anti-something brigade, you wont change their minds.

If you/people want a crack down on bad driving expect one on bad cycling and MTFU and take it. There is no excuse for riding without lights at night, jumping red lights or ripping down a hill on a BMX with no brakes or being on the phone while cycling. Same as there is no excuse for doing those things in a car.

I would welcome better enforcement of the rules of the road for all users with re-education, training, fines & bans for persistent offenders regardless of the transport they are using.

There is no excuse for…jumping red lights…

Yes there is.

Black is easy to see in daylight – plenty of contrast.

The greys and worse still any sort of disruptive patterning is hardest to pick up and there is one hell of a problem with the popular tarmac coloured cars out there. Sometimes they just “materialise” out of the background.

Tarmac coloured cars are one of my pet hates too, rain, fog, and generally poor visibility, and you can almost guarantee 8 out of 10 of them won’t have put lights on.

I don’t think what colours people chose to wear are that much of a problem (unless you really are trying to camouflage yourself). I think people just need to pay serious attention when negotiating the roads – stop seeing what they expect to see and start seeing what’s really there.

There are far too many people out there not focused on the act of driving/riding/walking/whatever on the roads and far too many people on their phones, concentrating on conversations, applying make up, thinking about work, family and 101 other things. Human nature I guess though, the brain can be a lazy sod with things it has to do regularly.

So why would you expend resources on a cycling crackdown when the vast majority of us are breaking no laws, and more importantly, not causing any serious accidents?
What does make a difference to me is perpetuating the myth that there are hordes of naughty cyclists out there breaking the law and causing havoc, and we have to get our house in order before we can expect a better transport deal.
In Scotland, in 2011, 95% of the accidents caused by ignoring traffic signals were attributed to motorists. Fact.

In Scotland, in 2011, 95% of the accidents caused by ignoring traffic signals were attributed to motorists. Fact.

Aren’t there quite a few million more cars than bicycles on the roads though? It stands to reason that more accidents would be down to motorists doesn’t it?

That said, I do believe that (in my neck of the woods at least) cyclists are really not that badly behaved.

Mikewsmith +1. Absolutely spot on.

About 90% of the people I see riding a bike out around my city at night without any lights or any fluorescent clothing. & lots of MTBers I see with top clothing on and bikes not wearing helmets, this is generally on wild natural trails, *most* trail park users are pretty safety conscious.

*most* trail park users are pretty safety conscious.

I bet there are more injuries at trail centres though. Ban safety kit and that would drop.

kcr – I could see your point if this was on a motoring forum, but we’re amongst friends here..

The point that I’m lightheartedly attempting to address is the hearts and minds aspect of our fight for acceptance..
Don’t take it so seriously

Certain junctions on my old London comute were safer if running (creeping) the red lights. The alterative would be setting off at the same time as a load of cars that all need to change lane while other traffic is filtering in with equal priority.

Guilty as charged y’r honour. 😳

I think it should be allowed at certain junctons, T-junctions from certain directons and left turns. In spain they have a flashing amber light signal combined with red, which means “go if its clear”.

There is no excuse for speeding, yet unlike the cycling offences mentioned, pretty much every driver does that every time they get in a car. It’s ridiculous to suggest spending money on cracking down on cycling behaviour when the same money spent on improving driving behaviour would make a far greater contribution to road safety.

I got hit by a MTB’er the other day quite hard. I was on my own and a group of about 9 or so went by, about the 6th or so rider failed to move over and was completely oblivious to me. I was hardly moving so couldn’t react and he smashed into me and knocked me off.

I have noticed this before with groups of cyclists that riders in a pack can be completely oblivious to what is in front of them thinking they are protected by the ones in front.

A warning.

we’re amongst friends here

Eh? You’re on the internet. All sorts of people read this stuff.

I’m lightheartedly attempting to address is the hearts and minds aspect of our fight for acceptance.. Don’t take it so seriously

Is that the famous Edinburgh defence?
It is serious. I don’t want to feed idiots like the Daily Mail and the ABD any more false information.

Unlit cyclists on rural A roads – regular occurrence.

Last week met a group of road cyclists (presumably a club), riding 3 wide on a busy A road, on a straight (which is one of the few on the road where it is safe to pass anything), whilst there is harvesting going on all around and a lot of machinery on the roads – no consideration for any other road users at all.

I think riding single file should be the law.

core – Member

Last week met a group of road cyclists (presumably a club), riding 3 wide on a busy A road, on a straight (which is one of the few on the road where it is safe to pass anything),

Blow your F****** horn at them put 2 fingers up as you drive past, you did get past didn’t you ?

whilst there is harvesting going on all around and a lot of machinery on the roads

Go on horn and 2 fingers at those bstards as well, did you ? I doubt it.

and bikes not wearing helmets

stupid bikes will almost certainly die a horrible death

I think riding single file should be the law.

Genuinely, why?

I agree that riding three abreast is probably not on – on many roads, with three cyclists riding abreast, the outermost will naturally sit a little too close to the middle of the road – but why is two abreast not OK?

Two cyclists sitting abreast of one another occupy approximately the same width as a single average-sized car, I can’t see what the problem is here.

fasgadh – Member

Black is easy to see in daylight – plenty of contrast.

it really isn’t.

especially when it’s sunny.

especially under trees.

kcr – Member

Why do you feel the need to defend yourself?

For reasons of maintaining the joke. Dur.

I have noticed this before with groups of cyclists that riders in a pack can be completely oblivious to what is in front of them thinking they are protected by the ones in front.

A warning.

Oddly, large groups of roadies I pass do the hand signal thing quite well and get in a line so they don’t hit pedestrians or other shared path users. MTB riders don’t seem to know what they mean.

Most idiotic cyclist I’ve seen recently was me. I was in full on “wheeeeeeeeeeeeeee….. going fast…. excellent” mode going down a steep hill with some lovely corners and forgot there was a crossroad at the bottom. Or I forgot the road bike doesn’t stop like my car or my MTB. Anyway, I got lucky and the lights were green for me

Question: Do I score a point for every post that I’m guilty of or should I adjust my total to take account of repeats?

Dales_rider – Member
core – Member
Last week met a group of road cyclists (presumably a club), riding 3 wide on a busy A road, on a straight (which is one of the few on the road where it is safe to pass anything),

Blow your F****** horn at them put 2 fingers up as you drive past, you did get past didn’t you ?

whilst there is harvesting going on all around and a lot of machinery on the roads
Go on horn and 2 fingers at those bstards as well, did you ? I doubt it.

2tyred – Member
I think riding single file should be the law.
Genuinely, why?

I agree that riding three abreast is probably not on – on many roads, with three cyclists riding abreast, the outermost will naturally sit a little too close to the middle of the road – but why is two abreast not OK?

Two cyclists sitting abreast of one another occupy approximately the same width as a single average-sized car, I can’t see what the problem is here.

First off – no I didn’t blast the horn and hurl abuse, they were coming the other way! But were holding up a lot of traffic as nothing could pass. And I wouldn’t anyway because riding on a busy A road scares the shit out of me at the best of times, and I would probably fill my bib shorts if someone did it to me.

I do give farmers a blast of the horn if they’re inconsiderate, but they’re doing their job and normally only travelling short distances, there aren’t always safe places to pull in, plus they’re not just out for a jolly or ‘training’……………..

Why single file? Do we really think it’s reasonable for cyclists on a busy A road that you can safely maintain 60mph on to restrict motorists to travelling at 20mph? Particularly on roads with limited overtaking opportunities.

If it was said tractor above, or some old dear doing 20mph they’d get overtaken and/or abused by most people.

Just because you’re on a bike it doesn’t give you the right to do what you like, I’m always very mindful when I’m on the road that I don’t impede motorists, I don’t like inconsiderate cyclists, so don’t want to be one.

Last night, busy but narrow road, young BMXer riding along texting or checking facebook.

2 months ago a lad his own age was knocked off and killed in almost the same place.

double post

I thought the chap in his late thirties/early forties on an orange alpine* who decided to show off to the lass he was riding with by pulling his longest wheelie along a busy shared use path past groups of old ladies, dog walkers and into oncoming bike traffic. something about having a guy’s wheel whizz past your face tends to get people’s backs up. This was on the Wylam Waggonway last week.

*I only mention this because I thought it might be one of the STW crowd. If it was, please don’t be an arse.

Do we really think it’s reasonable for cyclists on a busy A road that you can safely maintain 60mph on to restrict motorists to travelling at 20mph? Particularly on roads with limited overtaking opportunities.

As it happens, yes I think it’s perfectly reasonable. You don’t have a right to travel at the speed limit all the time, your speed is dictated in part by other traffic on the road, like for instance cyclists.

I really don’t get this whole “car drivers are worse so don’t criticise cyclists” thing. There was an article on road.cc the other day, about Laura Trott saying it’s not always the car’s fault, and the comments give her a right roasting for essentially the same thing that KCR says, but for my money, the one thing does not excuse the other – most cycle/car interface-related road accidents may well be caused by the car driver, but that doesn’t mean cyclists then get free rein to ride how they want to.

I was running down a shared use route which I regularly cycle along, I was running on right as I should with oncoming traffic on a road.

Then coming towards me is this older chap on a road bike with his cap on (no lid, each to their own) thinking he looks like an 80’s pro.

He see’s me and has plenty of time and room to go round me, no effort at all. He just rides straight at me and flicks his hand at me shooing me out of his path, which I did but sort of wish I hadn’t.

arrogant old git muttered some expletive at me when he came past too

There is no excuse for…jumping red lights…

My default position it to ‘jump’ them unless there’s an ASL. Otherwise I’m just fighting for space with 2 tones of rapidly accelerating metal.

Case in point there’s a trafic light controlled roundabout near here where the lights are 15-20m back from the roundabout. I can either sit back behind the stop line and have to compete for space with the rest of the trafic, or roll through the stop lines and wait a the roundabout for the lights, then accelerate through ahead of the cars, and repeat (4 sets on the roundabout, plus one on each of 4 entries, all sequenced so you’re always heading towards a red light when yours is green, so you can’t do a non stop lap). Doing it that way I’m never anywhere near a moving car and far safer than sticking to the letter of the law.

On a lot of bridleways and even paths near me are signs asking mountain bikers to slow down and consider walkers and families ,I wonder if people are getting obsessed with strava and doing everything at the highest possible speed rather than sharing the countryside with other users .theres definitely a perception that we’re all hooning a long scattering folk in our wake

Cyclists turning left through red lights.

I can sort of see the appeal, however, first check there isn’t a cyclist rapidly approaching you in the same small gap between cars and curb you’ve just crept into!

Why single file? Do we really think it’s reasonable for cyclists on a busy A road that you can safely maintain 60mph on to restrict motorists to travelling at 20mph? Particularly on roads with limited overtaking opportunities.

If it was said tractor above, or some old dear doing 20mph they’d get overtaken and/or abused by most people.

Yes, I think that is reasonable.

All road users have to co-exist. Some are incapable of travelling at the same speed as others. The abuse you describe – whether directed at a cyclist, a tractor or some old dear – is unacceptable, and it is this behaviour that’s the problem, not the presence of another road user.

On many roads with a 60mph limit, it is not possible for an average sized vehicle to safely pass a single cyclist occupying a safe position without crossing the middle of the road. By your rationale, should the cyclist be there at all?