Thatcher's died according to BBC

I shall be avoiding all forms of media tomorrow and go for a ride. I may even have a glass of milk.

I’ll check to see if there is a riot.

So as we have never had a free market economy how do you know it does not work? What is it that makes us need a state to regulate the economy, the country or more scarily individuals?

Dark satanic mills
Child labour
Child deaths at works
The reality is owners will do any number of moral ills to make some more money as a quick glance at history will tell you.

The stateless society with “unregulated individuals” has been tried we call it the Wild West and it was most unlike what you think will spring up from no rules as we all suddenly become nice because there are no rules.
the internet may also give you a current example of how nice everyone is when not regulated

Can you name me some countries that are fully unregulated free markets with no central or local government regulation?

Somalia? Or has someone else already done this one.
It does have local and central government regulation, but it appears to be completely ignored.

Dark satanic mills
Child labour
Child deaths at works

If you are talking about Victorian Britain there was state intervention, it wasn’t a laissez-faire free market economy. And not just state intervention on social issues, but also infrastructure projects.

well [ having bothered to read the thread 😳 ] is that there was always regulation as the market is fundamentally flawed so you are correct that there was none – well there must have been at some point with barter I guess.

My view is that regulation is a reaction to what happened without it

well there must have been at some point with barter I guess.

The original question asked for an example of free-market capitalism, whilst their might have been no state intervention under the barter system, it wasn’t capitalism.

Goes of to read even more of the thread 😳

My view is that regulation is a reaction to what happened without it

Interesting, isn’t it?

Free marketeer = anarchist.

Neither of whom actually knows how human nature works, but both have a wonderful idea HOW it should.

We have to deal with the reality.

Democratic socialism is the only method that has ensured that the majority of humans are satisfied with their lives.

Embrace human nature.
Love all the people.
Treat others as you would yourself.
Judge your society by how you treat the least fortunate.
Bollocks to dogma.

I may even have a glass of milk.

I’m having a mr whippy.

Democratic socialism ? Very interesting, any working examples ?

why do you need to put a question mark after democratic socialism ?

Very interesting, any working examples ?

Clement Atlee 1945 would be an obvious homegrown example

I may even have a glass of milk.
I’m having a mr whippy.

euphemism ??

I’m having a mr whippy.

i immediately thought of douglas hird from spitting image

mt – Member

So as we have never had a free market economy how do you know it does not work?

You can draw conclusions from historic situations which are, IMO, impossible to resist without resorting to irrationality.

We have a largely free market with specific controls. Companies go to great lengths to escape these controls, legally and otherwise. They’re not normally especially strong controls either- not strong enough, once degraded, to stop the invisible hand from fisting itself. Ultimately, companies do what they want whenever they can get away with it.

Now, I know there are those who believe that the reason companies destroyed themselves was because of these weak controls- that they create a false impression of safety which encourages organisations to act dangerously. And frankly, these people should be identified, and prevented from ever holding any position of responsibility, because they are quite mad.

We have laws in society. People break these laws, and invent new crimes that are outwith the existing laws. Do we believe they all do this because they just don’t like laws? And that if we only did away with these silly laws, everyone would be lovely to each other?

When I was working for the bank (a bank now recognised widely as a benchmark for Being Shit), the culture where regulation was concerned was that of ignoring it- or rather, paying it enough attention to dodge it. Now they didn’t do that out of some prankish sense of fun or challenge- LOL, it’s the FSA, let’s lead them a merry dance. They did it because they wanted to do things that regulations would prevent.

And then, they completely destroyed themselves. Could better regulation have stopped that? Perhaps- I suspect it’d largely have led to better deception/evasion. But you have to be nuts to think it happened because of regulation. In a free market, they’d have done the same things, and more.

“More, better capitalism” imagines that placing a bucket of water at the foot of a cliff encourages people to jump off. And then, it imagines that kicking over the bucket will render the cliff completely safe.

And that’s pretty much all I have to say about that.

I will be trying to avoid all the coverage of the funeral tomorrow. A Mr Whippy sounds like a good enough way of passing the time 😀

I shall be:

The one on the right I know about so doesn’t get my support, the one on the left I have no idea, who is he?

Jim.

Jim who?, seriously, who is he?

You’ve not heard of Jim?

I think he lives here:

Junkyard – lazarus

euphemism ??

A younger/pre-politics Margaret Thatcher is credited with being on the team that developed the Lyons ‘soft scoop’ method of softening ice cream. Allegedly the biggest competition to this/her system at the time was the ‘Mr Whippy’. 😀

So we have had what some think is a pretty graphic example of a totally unregulated society in Somalia, I’m not fully sure this is really an unregulated given the religious input into certain parts of that country. However it’s still very relivent example of in humanity but still does not answer the question of why we cannot have a society that allows a free market. Now don’t get bogged down with companies, banks or institutions that have upset you. These are all made up of humans just like you and me, is there a fundamental human failing that allows us to do/ be complicit in activity that is selfish. Humans can often show cooperative behaviour that is outstanding in its selflessness but then again be constantly selfish on a daily basis. Is it that we need to see an overwhelming reason to understand why working collectively is better in the long run.

Farmers Blonde, Bradfield Brewery lovely.

Interesting, isn’t it?
Free marketeer = anarchist.

You should read the Wikipedia pages on anarchism and free marketeers, because they’re very different.

Democratic socialism ? Very interesting, any working examples ?

Most Scandinavian countries have traditionally been much more socialist than us, and seemingly very successfully. They consistently score extremely highly on quality of life/standards of living ratings.

Do you think this country could go scandi-style then? All the scandinavian people i have met have been proper nice, friendly, open, cool people. maybe that’s cos they were all arty types though. Dunno. Booze would be expensive though, that’d be a bummer.

Do you think this country’ll go scandi-style then?

No, too much selfishness and lack of a sense of social responsibility in this country. Wonder why that might be.

Maybe there will be a wake up n smell the coffee time when people realise it is better to work together, for each other. I think the country will realise it is not some all powerful empirical force anymore and just a nice pretty island off the side of mainland europe with no real assets! Apart from great culture n history etc. maybe become a great tourist mecca or sommat. 😉

Grim, good question that on selfishness. The easy cop out answer would be to blame a politician ( living or dead). Though some believe that we are all a product of our environment, which must be true to an extent. If we have free will however we are all capable of choosing not to be selfish, so why don’t we?

No, too much selfishness and lack of a sense of social responsibility in this country. Wonder why that might be.

Nail on the head.

The odd thing is despite this apparently (to me at least) being the case. On an individual level and national, we just don’t appear to be enjoying any more success. By most measures a good deal less.

My experiences of Scandi types (actually almost entirely Swedish, and a few Norwegians who are generally a bit odd)are of well educated hard working pleasant folk to know with a great quality of life. One of the things that really stuck out about the Swedes was the quality and strength of the family unit. Really solid and well engaged.

I’m sure there are issues, and of course will not represent all Swedes.

I’m just getting on a coach to London & I’ve got 12 eggs.

I’m probably still “the enemy within”

If we have free will however we are all capable of choosing not to be selfish, so why don’t we

i think its because ultimately our decisions are based partly on what is best for us and partly how are actions are judged in society.

Of course if there is no society and we are excessively rewarded for looking after ourselves…..

jekkyl – Member

I’m just getting on a coach to London & I’ve got 12 eggs.

Hope you’ve also got a good lawyer.

piemonster – Member
I’m sure there are issues, and of course will not represent all Swedes.

I think it depends on where you met them, if it’s people working over here then it’s a pretty self-selecting group.

Hope you’ve also got a good lawyer.

we know he has a chicken, isn’t that enough?

Apparently not.

May your aim be true.

Dog eggs?