Team GB – the new East Germany?

Team GB is gettin huge numbers of medals at the Olympics, far more than would be expected for a country of our size.

Are we turning into the new East Germany, which managed similar sporting feats in the 70s and 80s, to the detriment of most other aspects of their social fabric?
Does this success reflect our failure to do well at more important activities – manufacturing and building homes, for starters?
Discuss…

the reason east Germany were so successful is they were doping on an industrial scale.

so yes, we are the same 😉

Doesn’t it just reflect the effectiveness of selective Lottery funding for carefully selected, elite athletes?

East Germany was state funded.
GB is lottery funded.

I can’t see how the successful use of lottery money reflects a (supposed) failure in manufacturing and building homes.

I believe we’re pretty good at manufacturing, but only certain sectors where cheap labour isn’t a factor.

EDIT – Number of indoor velodromes in the massive USA? 1. Number in the UK? 5 of Olympic standard, plus Calshot.

Sadly, I suspect Warton is on the money.

Suspect is when Romania manages to come 2nd in the medal table in the 1980 Moscow Olympics 🙄

We are choosing to put lottery (state) money into specific sports, funding a few elite competitors rather than “sport for all”, while libraries are closing, food banks are sprouting, arts are losing funds.

Scruff, why do you say that?

I’d like to think GB athletes are clean although I know that it’s unlikely they all are. Just wondered if you have seen or read something that makes you think that way.

How did the us come first in Moscow? They weren’t there??

Maybe that’s the L.A ones .

Team GB is gettin huge numbers of medals at the Olympics, far more than would be expected for a country of our size.

If you factor in population then we were 16th overall this morning below New Zealand, Australia, Hungary and the Netherlands so we are not winning far more medals than would be expected for a country of our size. I reckon Team GB are actually performing at about where they should be given the population and GDP.

Does this success reflect our failure to do well at more important activities – manufacturing and building homes, for starters?

Probably not.

far more than would be expected for a country of our size

how many would be expected?

And this year there’s a big chunk of Russian competitors not there that potentially news the table a bit (although more likely to become apparent over the next few days).

Suspect is when Romania manages to come 2nd in the medal table in the 1980 Moscow Olympics

Definitely not 1980, must be 84.

Little New Zealand are 8th! There’s only about 4 million of them! Not that’s suspect!

You could just take the tin-foil hat off and enjoy the Games for what they are. 😉

This was done on the BBC More or Less programme recently. I seem to recall they concluded that GB would expect to be somewhere about 3rd in the medal tables based on population and GDP, so performance seems to be pretty much as expected.

UK Sport was given the task of improving the number of medal winners at World Championship and Olympic level. To do this they have received money from the Exchequer and the National Lottery (Does anyone know the split between State funds and Lottery funds?).

You can’t argue with their results, UK Sport has taken the funding and massively improved the UK’s standing at international sporting events. Some argue that the way that UK Sport has funneled the money into sports which will give the best return with regards to world class performances has been to the detriment of other sports. UK Sport would argue that they have spent the funding wisely to get the best results and if you want a wider range of sports funding then give them more money.

If people really don’t like the UK winning medals at the Olympics then you can always not buy a lottery ticket.

gobuchul – Member

Little New Zealand are 8th! There’s only about 4 million of them! Not that’s suspect!

New Zealand is full of awe-inspiring genetically blessed sportspeople though, like Hels.

Oops, yep that’s the LA ones.

Team GB is a highly effective promotional tool for British nationalism.

It’s red-faced commentators screaming. It’s Sir Chris interviewing Sir Bradley about what makes Team GB world beaters. It’s the dirge of God Save the Queen. It’s the smothering of Welsh, Scottish and Irish identity. It’s an ugly and jingoistic BBC, showing utter disdain for anything non Team GB.

It’s the smothering of Welsh, Scottish and Irish identity.

Stop being racist. Yes the Northern Irish have claim to be upset (Team UK) but don’t leave the English out of the smothering accusations. Haven’t seen a flag of St George anywhere. Plenty of Saltires and Tam O’Shanters infiltrating Cobham’s finest tennis player’s match last night too.

It’s an ugly and jingoistic BBC, showing utter disdain for anything non Team GB.

What a crock! We take money of low income people via the extraordinary mechanism that is the lottery to give to our sports stars. It would be doubly cheeky to ask them to pay to watch the results too. I saw them cover and interview some Jamaican and SA blokes last night who looked pretty good too. There was some shots of some American swimmers and a Hungarian one as well. Why are they wasting their time on that lot?

Back to the OP – we seem to have found the recipe for success. I hope they can bottle it for future use!

We have spent £350m of lottery money on the athletes, coaches and everything else that goes with it for this olympic cycle,so Im glad the results are coming

It’s an ugly and jingoistic BBC, showing utter disdain for anything non Team GB.

Most of last nights gushing was for a South African and a Jamaican.

Sydney Games – athlete/coach/equipment budget £69m
Rio Games – £360m

This plus greater anti doping control means our superior organisation and rescources means more medals

BTW

It’s an ugly and jingoistic BBC, showing utter disdain for anything non Team GB.

French TV is no different, except best stuff is on subscription only tv to boot

copa – Member
Team GB is a highly effective promotional tool for British nationalism.

It’s red-faced commentators screaming. It’s Sir Chris interviewing Sir Bradley about what makes Team GB world beaters. It’s the dirge of God Save the Queen. It’s the smothering of Welsh, Scottish and Irish identity. It’s an ugly and jingoistic BBC, showing utter disdain for anything non Team GB.
🙄

Having met one of the performance directors of UK Sport, they apply very strict criteria to how funded programmes are funded and are supported. Probably feels very sterile for some, but delivers results. There’s too many in the media with an Anti-Murdoch stance that would relish the prospect of a GB or Sky rider caught doping and now with a number of ex-Sky riders there’s still not a whiff of suspicion except from others’ over-fertile imaginations.

in rowing yes we are the new east germany 🙂 Had the pleasure of watching him work at very close quarters…. his technique seems to be shouting very loudly in the face of the athletes !

UK is four or five times the size that East Germany was, so I’d have to say no to the question posed.

Is the UK success down to a state sponsored programme? Yes.
Is it doping? Well I can only lyrics go by the ioc, wada and the rest. They seem happy with the UK athletes.

Was the focus on sport the main detriment to East Germany or was it a hell of a lot deeper than that?
Is this thread just another blow smoke near team GB to make it look like smoke so people can go look no smoke without fire they are all doping? Not sure…

Strangely enough, no, we don’t seem to have got a medal in that – a fair amount of success for East Germany though.

“Oh no I live in a country that is being a success at sport, must try and find a way to feel better about my own inadequacy by smear, innuendo and a general whine”.

Dear BBC,

Can you please stop show casing the success of the sports people from the countries that pay your licence. Could you please play down any success by reminding us that our Athletes were selfishly leaving others behind, what sort of example is that. Can you not put on a depressed, dour Olympics for the terminally boring and miserable.

Yours in depressing greyness

I Hate Winners

New Zealand is full of awe-inspiring genetically blessed sportspeople

It’s full of crazy drunk @#$%s who seemed to like punching me in the face. They must have some kind of secret signal. They pretend to be all friendly and all, then you make a harmless little joke and they all start punching you. Then they all go back to being friendly again. Bloody psychos. Should all be transported to Australia for the terms of their natural lives.

Why does NZ need to “import” so many rugby players then?

My post about doping was very much tongue in cheek.

certain athletes are suspect, but there’s certainly no widespread state funded doping programme in the UK.

as others have said, we are very ruthless in awarding funding. if a sport over achieves it gets more money, if it under achieves it’s funding is pretty much stopped, freeing up mare money to go to sports like cycling. expect a big spike in funding for swimming and gymnastics in the next four years….

Strangely enough, no, we don’t seem to have got a medal in that – a fair amount of success for East Germany though.

😆

Team GB is a highly effective promotional tool for British nationalism.

It’s red-faced commentators screaming. It’s Sir Chris interviewing Sir Bradley about what makes Team GB world beaters. It’s the dirge of God Save the Queen. It’s the smothering of Welsh, Scottish and Irish identity. It’s an ugly and jingoistic BBC, showing utter disdain for anything non Team GB.

I don’t don’t know if any of the British athletes are on drugs but I think someone is desperately in need of some medication.

We are choosing to put lottery (state) money into specific sports, funding a few elite competitors rather than “sport for all”, while libraries are closing, food banks are sprouting, arts are losing funds.

This. They (the government) won’t even give back the extra lottery money they “borrowed” to host 2012, despite not having spent it:

*Government takes £425M from Lottery funds to build the Olympic Village

*Turns out the government underspent by £500M overall on the Olympics

*Government plans to return the money in the next decade. Or possibly the one after that.

*Interestingly, that stadium they’re letting West Ham have for 99 years at £2.5M per annum cost £486M to build.

Dunno what people know about Lottery funded projects, the heritage stuff seems to be the most noticeable. The place I work has a couple of Lottery funded projects. One’s working with some of the “hardest to reach” – “multiple complex needs” so think personality disorder, coupled with homelessness and substance misuse. Ultimately moving people into Education, training and employment. The other working with slightly lower needs, but again getting results with people that wouldn’t leave the house at all, full stop, and are now going out to work all day. This kinda thing benefits individuals and also wider society – more economically productive, less drain on social care, criminal justice, the health service etc etc.

One could perhaps argue that this is a more worthwhile use of the lottery money than intensive support to a small number of elite sportspeople (who, in many cases, then go on to accrue substantial personal wealth off the back of the achievements that we’ve all supported).

This discussion on Radio2 now….

Jeremy Vine? I’m sure it’ll make this place seem quite reasonable!

Edit…

This discussion on Radio2 now….

Seemed to be two people ranting at each other rather than a discussion. I could only listen to about 2 minutes before i had to turn it off 🙁