taxi customers wanting white drivers

No taxis round here have to if the dog is small/clean.

Rochdale and Oldham. Lets not talk about the racism or Paedophile males there huh.

I prefer Asian taxi drivers. Much more interesting conversations to be had.

Religion, Syria, Israel, cultural differences. Learned far more about stuff than I ever had from the typical white ‘ bloody foreigners’ drivers that infest the system.

Back to the OP yes it is racist but understandable given the way the media portrays whole sections of society when these events occur.

I think that the majority of the population is sick of the mistrust, the unhelpful scaremongering and the failure of the local authority to intervene earlier, nevermind investigating abuses by it’s own.

This. Rochdale is no better or worse than any other part of the Country as regards racism – what IS different is the sense of anger, the sense of distrust and now the sheer disgust at the Liberal Party/Liberal Democrats Party politicians who covered up the abuses by their political star for decades.
Even before the abuse scandals, Cyril Smith was well known to be corrupt as he was in the pocket of Turner Bros Asbestos & helped them avoid pollution regulations % prosecutions for years.
That man had the slow, horrible deaths of many local people on his conscience IMO.

Oh, and the taxi firms I use are both Asian owned.

Ok, so your daughter needs to go somewhere by taxi, 2 taxi firms charging the same price, one staffed by white drivers, the other staffed by Asian drivers. (yes this is based on fact). Given the proven facts, which company has more potential actual/perceived threat to your daughter?

Given the proven facts, which company has more potential actual/perceived threat to your daughter?

neither or both?
It’s a well documented fact that most abuse is carried out by people that the victim knows well such as family. The stranger danger aspect is completely blown out of all proportion.

Mike – if that is the case than, apologies I have only listened to sensationalised headlines. I thought it was taxi drivers grooming young vulnerable passengers?

See I am reasonably intelligent, and was making a judgment based on probability, based on what I had heard were the ‘facts’. Maybe ill informed, but not a judgement based on race.

I like to think of myself as racy and sexy. I’m pretty sure that’s what others mean when they call me racist and sexist

I thought it was taxi drivers grooming young vulnerable passengers?

Couple of things, “Was” as in past tense, part of the less sensationalist headline would be a number of men carried out these crimes. It does not mean that people of from an ethnic group are more likely to commit these crimes.

Most sexual abuse offenders are acquainted with their victims; approximately 30% are relatives of the child, most often brothers, fathers, uncles or cousins; around 60% are other acquaintances, such as “friends” of the family, babysitters, or neighbors; strangers are the offenders in approximately 10% of child sexual abuse cases

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse
That is probably the bit that people need to be talking about rather than avoiding certain taxi drivers but to do so would involve looking far to closely into whats going on around you rather than thinking the problem is caused by all those other people.

It was.

Mike again could be my ill informed opinion, but I thought it was partially due to their ethnicity that they were not investigated? Again another reason for a probability being higher based on ethnicity.

Again another reason for a probability being higher based on ethnicity.

So looking forward from today you are saying your kids are less safe with a non white taxi driver?

Put simply, this is racism. Asking for a driver who isn’t a scum sucking piece of shit child abuser would be OK. Asking NOT to have someone because they are Asian/have a beard/are Belgian is not OK….

Unless, it seems, you work on the council

But the “white drivers on request” policy does not run contrary to the conditions of the minicab firm’s licence and can continue, a spokesman for the council said. Mark Widdup, the director of economy and environment at Rochdale borough council, said: “This is first the council has heard of this company’s policy. However, this appears to be a decision made by the company and there is currently nothing in the conditions of their licence which state that they cannot operate such a policy, just as some firms choose to offer customers only female drivers.”

Mike – personally no because I know you are at more risk from someone you know.

But I’m just suggesting that people are saying this is a race thing when the reality is over the last 10 years in Rochdale/Rotherham/Bradford your child had a higher risk factor getting in a taxi with an Asian taxi driver than a white. That’s not racism just fact.

Race, one other hand, does NOT enable people to do things differently to one another, so to prefer one race over another is to do so based on completely inappropriate prejudice.

If I were Trekking in Tibet would it be racist to seek a local Tibetan who’s bloodline had lived at high altitude and thus adapting to the lower oxygen levels by actually having a different physiology. Their blood vessels are far more dense to compensate and make them BETTER at this task.

I know it’s an extreme example but sometimes it’s good to remind ourselves that we are after all a product of evolution and environment.

That is probably the bit that people need to be talking about rather than avoiding certain taxi drivers but to do so would involve looking far to closely into whats going on around you rather than thinking the problem is caused by all those other people.

The 10% “stranger danger” might only be 10% of the overall problem, but that doesn’t mean it should be ignored as a risk to be considered.

And if you are talking about statistics. What is the breakdown of that 10% in terms of profession ?

And what is the breakdown of the taxi drivers in terms of ethnicity ?

“Put simply, this is racism”
Really?
I retain the right to deal with who I like. I won’t get into a taxi if the driver smells of smoke, has BO or even sounds “unpleasant” . I don’t have to. My choice.
I rarely speak to an Asian at a call centre if I can avoid it. Can’t be arsed with dealing with an accent I don’t understand. Equally I have also put the phone down to a Scot.
Amazing isn’t it that those who preach equality and freedoms are those who actually want to curtail them. 🙄

taxi customers wanting white drivers is benign compared to Asian taxi drivers wanting white children to molest, so its telling just how much moral outrage this news story produces. Made even more ridiculous by years of utter denial by the guardian et al that this problem even existed in the first place, and the inevitable fallout is now deemed to be “racist”.

Doctor, you’ve chosen your guide because of their physical ability. You hope that their ethnicity delivers this attribute (but hope they’re not the valley dwellers).

I think your saying that these Asian chaps who were convicted have evolved to be paedophiles and this suggests that the rest of their community are too?

CSB, no he isn’t saying that all Asians have evolved to be child molesters, he is making a point that actually, not all humans are exactly the same (I am assuming he didn’t feel the need to point out that some are better at breast feeding than others). In fact I think it is blatantly obvious what he is saying!

“Put simply, this is racism”
Really?
I retain the right to deal with who I like. I won’t get into a taxi if the driver smells of smoke, has BO or even sounds “unpleasant” . I don’t have to. My choice.

Yes it’s racism because the taxi users are making the request not based on the individual but based on their ethnicity without meeting the individual. In the examples you give you would have had to meet or heard (in the example of the Scottish telephone exchange) the individual in order to ascertain that they are in some way unpleasant to you.

Saw the report on Granada local news last night & an Asian driver who works for said company was asked his opinion on this, & he said that he didn’t have a problem with customers asking for a white driver.

So what?

es it’s racism because the taxi users are making the request not based on the individual but based on their ethnicity without meeting the individual. In the examples you give you would have had to meet or heard (in the example of the Scottish telephone exchange) the individual in order to ascertain that they are in some way unpleasant to you.

No they are basing it on perceived risk. If I lived in a town where numerous asian taxi drivers (and no white taxi drivers) had been convicted of sex offences I’d choose a white taxi driver to transport my daughter.

As has been pointed out, taxi licences already permit women driver only taxi services etc.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/9573645/Women-only-taxi-firms.html

or is one ‘ism’ more precious than another ‘ism’ nowadays?

Perceived risk is a valid point, but would customers be asking for Asian drivers had the perpetrators been white? I doubt it very much, if that had been the case the response would likely have been to view the criminals as individuals rather than classify them by their ethnicity.

It’s a fair point, but once people are given that information, it’s hard to ignore.

Like if all the taxi companies involved were on the same street, I might avoid companies on that street.
Or if all the taxi drivers were Irish etc.

I’m not saying it’s right (or that it’s not racist in this case) but I can kind of understand why people feel the way they do.

It’s a scary minefield protecting kids, and people are so scared of getting it wrong and dealing with the consequences, that they go overboard sometimes.

It’s a scary minefield protecting kids

Not putting an unaccompanied child in a taxi would be a pretty easy first step.

Not putting an unaccompanied child in a taxi would be a pretty easy first step.

True.

And not letting them join any clubs, or do any sport at school, or go anywhere at all, without you in control 100% of the time.

However, real life is often different.

If I lived in a town where numerous asian taxi drivers (and no white taxi drivers) had been convicted of sex offences I’d choose a white taxi driver to transport my daughter.

I’m not sure as that logic holds water. If there were a large number of unconvicted offenders, that’s where you’d need to worry.

Ok, so your daughter needs to go somewhere by taxi, 2 taxi firms charging the same price, one staffed by white drivers, the other staffed by Asian drivers. (yes this is based on fact). Given the proven facts, which company has more potential actual/perceived threat to your daughter?

Irrelevant as the % of each race who abuse is the same.

Unless, it seems, you work on the council

Councils dont make the law

Amazing isn’t it that those who preach equality and freedoms are those who actually want to curtail them.

You are not treating everyone equally and you no more have the freedom to be racist than I have the freedom to punch you in the face for your racism. Thi smay upset us both but hey ho

ompared to Asian taxi drivers wanting white children to molest,

Its worth remebemering that enfht is on record as saying he would not use a shop that is owned by Asians ..he thinks this is not “racist” either.

the inevitable fallout is now deemed to be “racist”.

Is there another way to describe selecting your driver by race ?
And some say racists are stupid.

If I lived in a town where numerous asian taxi drivers (and no white taxi drivers) had been convicted of sex offences I’d choose a white taxi driver to transport my daughter.

Do you have the stats to show that no White taxi drivers have been prosecuted in the same time frame? It’s worth remembering that it was TWO who were prosecuted.
Its also worth noting that the abuse was centred around two takeaways rather than Taxis firms.
FWIW this sort of thinking is known as the gamblers fallacy . Past events do not predict future ones. For all we known it means the white ones have not been caught and are still working for example and all the Asians ones have been caught.

irrelevant as the % of each race who abuse is the same

https://fullfact.org/crime/sex_offender_asian_white_proportion_grooming_rotherham-34810

Tracker It isn’t as clear as you say. He is conflating personal attributes (beast shape for feeding, blood count for stamina) of individuals with physiological characteristics of an ethnic community. So he is making a generalisation.

@ ninfan I said the % of each race who abuse is the same
That tells me the % who abuse in gangs

Well, since we’re clearly talking about grooming/non familial abuse in the concept of taxi drivers I think that it’s entirely relevant!

Asians are clearly over represented in these type of grooming convictions:

https://fullfact.org/factchecks/race_and_sex_offences-27153

( there’s clearly a heavy debate on it involving a small subset of Pakistani heritage Asians rather than asians as a whole)

For what it’s worth you’ve not given a source for your own claim that child abuse rates are the same between races, and I’ve given you two sources that say Asians are heavily over represented in street grooming and gang offences.

Well, since we’re clearly talking about grooming/non familial abuse in the concept of taxi drivers I think that it’s entirely relevant!

Well you would because the alternative is to admit tht it is not relevant to what i said

It also worth noting that of the 12 charged only 2 were taxi drivers and it centred around two takeaways.

not given a source for your own claim that child abuse rates are the same between races

I think we can take it that you have failed twice to produce evidence that counters it as proof. 😉

Seeing as you like fact check
https://fullfact.org/factchecks/race_and_sex_offences-27153

Its also includes your data FWIW
In brief – you re correct about MO and asian and Pakistani asian in particular and I was correct re convictions rates.

One could ask why this gets so much coverage.
It’s either because the MO is odd and more shocking or because the press and society are [institutionally] racist and want to portray asians as dangerous groomers of white children [ FWIW only 60% were white which is well below the population % – that was in your first link iirc]

IMHO its a bit of both.
Asian men are no more likely to abuse than a white person.
IF , and it is a big if, they abuse they are more likely to be part of a grooming gang and they are more likely to “street groom”.
None of this would make me specify the race of a taxi driver and if i was that way inclined i would be more worried about takeaways as that is where the abuse was centred…..and some say racist re stupid etc

Aha, however the full fact you linked discusses Asians being proportionately represented in sex offences as a totality, not just child sex offences… Then goes on to give stats on them being over represented in grooming offences.

Cynical people at the time may have accused people of conflating the two to muddy the waters.

So, racism is OK then? Would it be OK if I were to say that I didn’t want a Belgian* waiter as I don’t like Belgians? Etc.

Put simply, this is racism. Asking for a driver who isn’t a scum sucking piece of shit child abuser would be OK. Asking NOT to have someone because they are Asian/have a beard/are Belgian is not OK, because not all Asians/beard wearers/Belgians in Rochdale, or anywhere else for that matter, are scum sucking piece of shit child abusers. Far from it.

* I have nothing against Belgians, for the record, was just using it in line with an excellent gag on Radio 4 the other night. I also have nothing against Asians. And nothing against most beard wearers.

NAIVE

I live in Scotland, I might start requesting that they don’t send me a car driven by some scumbag racist Rangers fan. But I think that rules out 99% of all minicabs.

NAIVE

Which aspect of cfh’s post was naive? if we’re going to have any sort of interesting discussion on what is clearly a complex subject it would help to have a little more clarity.

When my kids were still kids I kept them away from anything that didn’t feel or look right to me, I’m fairly sure I wouldn’t attempt to gather any evidence as to whether or not a certain group of people held a greater risk, I’d just go with my gut.
If my kids were still of that age, (as well as using gut feeling) I’d try to keep the girls away from Asian taxi drivers and the boy away from Irish priests and all of them away from light entertainment TV and radio presenters. I really wouldn’t have given two figs if someone called me racist for my actions.